| Author | Message | ||
| Mike Linner carshow
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Has anyone bought Smartire this year and are you happy with it? I see they are on several new coaches for 2006. | ||
| Pat Bartlett (Muddog16)
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Mike I've checked into it both Smart tire and Doran basically do the same thing I think its a great idea for knowing what your tires are doing while under way, no guessing or kicking tires. I'm not to that point yet but I will use one of these systems!..........Pat | ||
| bruce king
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i have a smarttire gen 2 system. it monitors the pressure in all the bus tires and in the tires on the toad as well. One display for all the tires. Took most of a day for a tire dealer in oregon to install -- 6 hours. They have to pull each tire, dismount it, attach the sensor, remount. there is a small antenna at each tire location, so there are three antennas in my bus. One front, in area under drivers seat, one on chassis near rear drive duals, one on rear bumper. System pretty cool for knowing exactly what your tires are doing. pressure, temp and changes. I have a second display in the toad so that when i'm driving it I can have the tires monitored there. Very nice not having to worry about a flat tire in the toad. | ||
| Gary Stadler (Boogiethecat)
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How much does a full system cost? | ||
| Mike Linnercarshow
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Post I came across on the cost:March 25 2005 One of the things we had done at was installation of the SmarTire tire monitoring system. I have to say that this thing is way cool, and, I think, worth every penny of its fairly hefty price tag ($980 for an eight-wheel system, plus $350 for installation). We now have a little module on our dashboard which alerts us audibly and visually if any tire drops below normal pressure, or increases above reasonable operating temperature. We can also scroll through all eight tires and see a direct reading of the tire's pressure and internal temperature. It's been interesting watching the tires heat up as we drive. Right now, we are getting contsant alerts on the inner duals, since we did not have the sensors mounted on our old, temporary rims. The alert for unreporting sensors is different than the tire alarms, so it's not really an issue. Besides which, the other two sensors should be in place within a week. | ||
| Mike Linnercarshow
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Pat and Bruce thanks for your imput. I am an investor in Smartire Systems Inc. I am trying to get feedback positive and Negitive on our system. SmarTire Products Included on New Flyer Buses for Chicago Transit Authority SmarTire Signs Agreement with Motor Coach Industries International SmarTire Offered on Western RV's Alpine Coach Line Country Coach will offer Smartire in 2006 as an option. Winnebago is testing several TPMS systems right now. I do talk to Smartire quite a bit so thanks for the comments. | ||
| Jtng Rating: N/A |
Spam. Always nice. | ||
| Mike Linnercarshow
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Jtng No just looking for comments on the system. I am still here. If it was just pure spam I would not answer you. I do care what people think also. Sorry not spaming. If I was spaming I would tell you about my website. | ||
| John that newguy Rating: N/A |
Yeah. OK Mike. I unnerstan poifuctly. Seriously, the tire monitors are fine. Most all fella's running 'em think they're the cat's butt. As an investor, I would pay more attention to the comments of the commercial operators. They seem to feel that since there have been false "positives", the driver feels safe in not having to manually check the tires. Their problem is expanded however. The driver isn't just "checking tires" while he's out there, he's checking all other things as well. These devices seem to cause the driver to assume a false safe factor of the entire rig. The psychological aspect of "checking tires" that includes everything else in the "check", is most usually set aside when these devices are used. Your investment depends on the commercial industry, not the few "bus nuts" that buy these things. | ||
| Sean Welsh (Sean)
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Plagiarism -- Always nice... Seriously, Mike, the quote you posted is from my blog (folks can see the original post here: http://ourodyssey.blogspot.com/2005/03/we-are-at-laguna-seca-recreation-area.html) And I posted that on March 20th, not the 25th as you reported. So let me say, for the record, that my blog (and the rest of my website) is a copyrighted work, and I do not appreciate you cutting-and-pasting it here (or anywhere for that matter), at least without quotes and proper attribution. You're making me sorry I linked to the SmarTire site in there... As long as you brought it up, I do have some issues with the system. For one, I am running a bit less than 100psi in the tags, and I am getting constant alerts on them. Since we're heading back to the bay area, we will be stopping back at Les Schwab. They need to install new valve stems anyway, and I am hoping they can help us recalibrate the system to eliminate the spurious alerts. It's the boy who cried wolf at the moment. Otherwise, we're happy with it. -Sean | ||
| Mike Linnercarshow
Rating: N/A |
Sean Sorry for the mis-quote. Nice to hear from you. Sorry to hear things are not working out for you. You should be able to adjust the threshold on the receiver correct? Is it set too sensitive? One other question for you. Did you check with Smartire to see if that "Equal" powder would effect the sensors? Smartire says that you should never use a tire spray patch ect.. with the sensors. I have read that even the different tires can affect the sensors. Like Runflats compaired to carbon sidewall tires ect... It is an issue with the NHTSA and the new TPMS law for all new cars and their replacement tires. | ||
| Mike Linnercarshow
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John, Thanks for your reply. Funny you say check with the big guys. That is like pulling teeth with them. As far as people not checking stuff your right. Everything is being run by a computer. Like the TripTek system or the system by Silverleaf Electronics VMS 200 and 400 which both do a checklist of everything from oil pressure, temp ect... with tire pressure monitors now being integrated into these systems on RV's and buses. All of the truck makers are doing the same thing including GPS tracking and monitoring of all engine functions from their main headquarters. | ||
| John that newguy Rating: N/A |
"All of the truck makers are doing the same thing " Are you really an investor, or a Smartire promoter? There are more "older trucks" in use, than newer trucks. The concept is nice, but nothing beats a full personal and human check of the vitals.... Seeya', man. Hope you do well. | ||
| Sean Welsh (Sean)
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Mike, Les Schwab called SmarTire about the Equal issue before we went ahead. Their tech support said it was OK. We're still fiddling with adjusting thresholds. Looks like there is a hard 100psi lower limit. -Sean | ||
| Mike Linnercarshow
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John, I have been doing alot of reseach in the industry as a whole and was not even thinking Smartire when I mentioned other truck makers are going high tech check oil pressure engine temp ect....Volvo is the 1st truck maker trying out TPMS in New Zealand and Austrailia and I do not think it is Smartire. I agree. Even if you have TPMS all makers say you should still check your tires with a gauge also. That has been a concern by the RMA and the NHTSA. | ||
| Mike Linner carshow
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Sean, Here is Smartire's number if you need to contact them: Sales and Customer service 1-888-982-3001 Specs on the two systems: High Pressure Sensor: 10 to 160 psi cold inflation Low Pressure Sensor: 10 to 65 psi cold inflation Thanks for your response. Sorry about copying your blog. I just had read your review tonight of all things and Gary was asking how much it costs. | ||
| Gary Stadler (Boogiethecat)
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Well, now that the fire has simmered down, my next question... What's the difference between an $980 set of smartires for 8 wheels vs the Doran system at $590 for the same number of tires.... besides almost $400 ?? The Doran system seems easier to install and otherwise does roughly the same thing. Please enlighten me.... | ||
| mel 4104 Rating: N/A |
the cost of this type of system can cost a lot of money other that the cost of it as the otherpost says it is not just a tire check it is a complete check around the unit to look for other problems,anyone that thinks this is the save all just is not thinking. just ask your self how these systems tell you of road damage to a tire that is not loosing air yet but has big damage spot on it??????????? unless you get out and do the walk around and inspect the tires and the rest of the vec. and toad how are you going to know when you are going have trouble? as to the gps systems just ask the drivers what they think of them, and as to the vec. monitor systems the still do not replace visual checking. for me i will keep the money and enjoy the walk around as i enjoy the trip. | ||
| Gary Stadler (Boogiethecat)
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Well Mel, I can't agree with you. My first (and last) experience with a rental RV was that it lost a rear tire valve stem while on the freeway, and I didn't even feel it until I hit some mountain curves. (dualies back there) The RV was such a piece of crap in the first place that there was no "feel" to it at all. (actually it was a virtually new stick & staple but it handled like there was a block of jello mounted between the frame and the body) The valve stem had some mickey-mouse extender-hose on it so that dummies who didn't want to get dirty could fill it... the hose was poorly installed and it caught on the frame, and simply pulled it out. Had there been some sort of pressure monitor, I'd have been warned, instead of almost loosing it on a tight turn and figuring it out the hard way long after the deed had been done. (...Although, I wonder if either of these systems would warn you if the sensor was ripped off and left behind on the road  ) I'm not saying that it would replace a walkaround, those are manditory in my book at every beginning-of-trip and every stop along the way. But it seems that for some occurances, monitors would be a great way to avoid disasters. Yes it costs a lot, however not as much as that stupid valve stem cost me... 8 hours in a truckstop waiting for those jerks to pay attention to someone who wasn't a trucker... plus $100 to change the silly stem. What a rip! BTW, that experience was the main factor in my deciding to NEVER rent an RV again, instead buy a bus and make it into a cool motorhome. I've always been greatful to the RV industry for showing me what crap they build, and steering me into a world of absloute fun creating my own.... | ||
| Ross Carlisle (Rrc62)
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Objectively comparing the Smartire and Doran systems, I would go with the Doran just for it's ease of installation...and the better price, of course. It makes more sense to me to have the sensors on the outside where they are serviceable anyway. Ross | ||
| mike Linnercarshow
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Here is an answer right from Randy at Smartire. Subject: RE: RV Technical question Date: Thu, 26 May 2005 08:40:36 -0700 From: "Randy Halischuk" <rhalischuk@smartire.com> View Contact Details To: "mike linner" <carshownationalscom@yahoo.com> Hi Mike, The Doran Pressure Pro system uses externally mounted sensors that attach to the valve stem. These externally mounted sensors, although easier to install, are not ideal because the are easily damaged or stolen, and often cause the problem they are reporting on (i.e. they do not seal properly and cause the air leak). However, the biggest drawback to this system is that it is not able to monitor temperature or provide temperature compensated air pressure readings. A tire that is loosing air will cause the tire temperature to rise and this in turn causes the air pressure to rise as well. By the time a system that does not compensate for tire temperature provides its warning, tire damage could have already occured since a person could have been driving for a substantial time with an under-inflated tire. The biggest endorsement of SmarTire versus Pressure Pro is the fact that SmarTire is offered at the OEM level by such high end RV manufacturers as Country Coach, Monaco, and Western RV. SmarTire is also being offered as standard equipment on MCI and New Flyer buses, the two largest bus companies in North America. Ask Doran what OEM customers they have. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: mike linner [mailto:carshownationalscom@yahoo.com] Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2005 5:24 AM To: Randy Halischuk Subject: RV Technical question Randy, Could someone from Smartire answer this customers question? It's on the RV system. What's the difference between an $980 set of smartires for 8 wheels vs the Doran system at $590 for the same number of tires.... besides almost $400 ?? The Doran system seems easier to install and otherwise does roughly the same thing. This was asked on a message board. They are looking at buying a new system. Here is the link of the site: http://www.busnut.com/bbs/messages/11/10281.html?1117089418 Thanks for your help. Mike Linner | ||
| Sean Welsh (Sean)
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Gary, We chose the SmarTire over the Doran (and it's competitors) for a couple of reasons: First and foremost, the SmarTire monitors both temperature and pressure, while the others only monitor pressure. The system not only provides alerts on abnormally high temperatures, but it is also smart enough to know that the pressure increases with temperature, and it modifies the high and low pressure warning thresholds accordingly. The SmarTire system also uses remote antennae to ensure good signal reception from all sensors. Also, our tires just have normal valve stems on them, making manual pressure checks, as well as adding air, a routine matter. Imagine trying to get the Doran units off the inward-facing stems on your outer duals... Lastly, we liked their dash unit much better -- it's only about an inch by an inch and a half, and fit nicely on our already-cluttered dash. The Doran's display is huge by comparison. If we were to go with a valve-stem-installed, pressure-only system, I think we would have chosen the Tire Sentry over the Doran just because the dash unit fits a standard gauge hole. -Sean | ||
| Jtng Rating: N/A |
Hey Gary.... "The RV was such a piece of crap in the first place that......... " that maybe if it had tire sensors, they wouldn't have worked right either...? When a driver does a "walk around" to check the tires, he notices however inadvertently, things that may be wrong.. A tire stem extender that isn't secure, or a marker light out... things seem to get noticed. At a toll stop in Ct, I decided to pull to the side for a quick check of my tow bar. I took a look at the van in the process, and noticed an enormous bubble on the inside sidewall of the left rear tire. Those sensors wouldn't have provided a driver with the knowledge of that! What they do provide a driver with, is a false sense of security. Just -my- opinion, of cuz... (I've always kept the habit of stopping after every 1-1/2 to 2 hours of driving. Doing a walk-around at that time, was part of that habit). | ||
| Jtng Rating: N/A |
Hey guys... read this!! ----------------- "RICHMOND, BC, April 11 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- SmarTire Systems Inc. (OTCBB: SMTR) reported today that the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) has issued its final rule requiring all new passenger cars and light vehicles being manufactured for sale in the USA to be equipped with tire pressure monitoring systems (TPMS) by September 2007. The more stringent requirements of NHTSA's final rule can currently only be fulfilled by direct measurement systems such as the kind developed by SmarTire." ----------------- http://www.internetautoguide.com/auto-news/25-int/11579/ Man, there's nothing better than getting the fed to mandate your product, eh? ($$$+politics=$$$$$$$$$$) Uhmmm... this is good info: http://www.concours.org/sc/SmarTire.html http://w4.siemens.de/FuI/en/archiv/zeitschrift/heft2_99/artikel07/ I'm saving my $$ and using my $12 truck tire gauge when needed. | ||
| Gary Stadler (Boogiethecat)
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Oh believe me JT, I do walkarounds, and I did so on that stupid RV as well. The fill tubes were secure when I checked them, and an hour later the one had torn itself off. And, I too found a bubble on one of my current bus tires while refueling. That cost me a lot of bucks, and many hours as well, at a Rip Griffin truck stop (where finally I bribed the head mech $100 to fix my damned tire after waiting a full 7 hours of hearing "just a few more minutes and we'll be on it" ...now, besides an air gauge, all my tools, and lots of general purpose parts, I carry a $100 bill too... Thanks guys on the comparisons of the two systems. I'll probably go with the Doran though, because of cost and simplicity. I'm not so worried about temperature as an unexpected pressure drop, and as for removing the caps to check or fill, well the way I look at it, there oughta be caps on the stems anyway, so what difference does it make if it's a tiny one or a larger one that you can actually get your fingers on? | ||
| Mike Linnercarshow
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Jtng I would like to reply to your thoughts. #1 When you are "driving" you would not know of a pressure loss or possible heat build up in the tire. Under-inflation and heat build up are the number one cause of a tire blowout. If you would not have stopped you might have kept driving not knowing that the bubble might burst which could cause a loss of control. I am not saying it is not good to check but TPMS will add to your overall safety. | ||
| John that newguy Rating: N/A |
Gary- I think all of us here are conscientious enough to check everything on our rigs as we travel. I didn't mean to imply that you neglected to do that, and I think you know I wouldn't whack you like that... (I hope you know me better than that?) Anyway...... Here is the originator of this thread, suggesting that he's an investor looking for feedback..... When any stockholder of this company would have known that the fed's mandate will mean the value per share is about to explode and who cares if a bus nut uses it or not..... Unless this thread is more of a free ad, and not much else...? I see Sean wasn't too happy with the integrity of this either... Ok.... that was my cynical comment for the day. I will now get back to my own problems... Seey'all later. | ||
| Kyle Brandt (Kyle4501)
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another opinion - The more info available, the better. You can decide what to & what not to ignore. While there is no substitute for the walk arounds, the ability to know the tire's air pressure while under way is a good thing. Some of us here are not experts at every aspect of this hobby (and some of us don't want to be as life is too short). As a result, it is all to easy to miss a subtle tire injury on the walk-around. In a really bad rain, will you be as thorough in your walk-around?(fecees happens). 1-1/2 to 2 hours is a long time for a tire when it is injured and carring a heavy bus at highway speeds. My bus will have a tire monitoring system on it to supplement the walk-arounds. My bus, my kids inheritence, my way. kyle4501 | ||
| MIke Linnercarshow
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John that newguy I came across this site because someone had posted about Smartire along time ago. I just wanted to see everyone's thoughts on TPMS. Sorry if I offended anyone. Geeeeez. Just so everyone knows the NHTSA will announce a ruling on TPMS for commercial Trucks in 2008 or 2009. Not sure if will include RV's but I think they will include buses and school buses. The RV makers are already including TPMS or still testing the systems. | ||
| Richard Bowyer (Drivingmisslazy)
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I have to respectfully disagree with jtng. After driving thousands and thousands of miles over a period of many years, and without the first sign of any tire problem, I personally got very lax on doing any walkaround testing. Sorry, but that is just human nature I believe. I strongly suspect that there are many just like me in this regard. I would have certainly installed something like this if it would have been available while I was still travelling. Richard | ||
| Jim Shepherd (Rv_safetyman)
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Well, I suppose that this post will draw the wrath of Jtng and Ian, but I hope it is accepted in the sprit intended. I discussed tires sensors in an article I wrote for Bus Conversions Magazine (March 2005). I have also published the text and photos on my web site: http://www.rvsafetysystems.com/Alarm%20article.htm In that article I list a great site for more information on commercial truck tire failures: http://www.umtri.umich.edu/cntbs/doc/UMTRI_2000_28.pdf In my article I tried to be careful to advise folks about preventative steps to avoid problems. However, even good inspection processes may not reveal a tire with a slow leak. Jtng makes the point that these tire monitors will not detect impending instant failures – either from damage or impending fatigue failure. The above paper suggests that these types of failure are much less common than failures caused by under inflation. In hind site I wish I would have talked a bit more about the “cost” of a tire failure. Hopefully it will not result in an accident and the horrendous associated costs. However, a blowout can, and almost assuredly will, cause collateral damage to the bus. One of the buses going home from the Gathering had a blowout from low pressure (he knew the tire had a slow leak) and caused significant wheel well damage. The person who built the bus had run water and PROPANE lines through the wheel well and all were destroyed. He got the propane shut off before there was a real problem. So that blowout cost him a new tire, service charge (he had insurance that covered this) and the cost to re-plumb and repair other damage. We use (and sell) the Doran unit. I like the design and flexibility of this system, but other systems have their strong points as well. Part of the consideration is whether to use an interior system (sensor mounted inside the tire), or a stem mounted system. I like the exterior system as that makes switching toads or toad/trailer a snap. It is also easier to deal with battery failure. With the stem mounted system you do run the chance of theft, but I have not heard of damage. Sorry for the long reply. Jim Shepherd Evergreen, CO ’85 Eagle 10 Bus Project details: http://www.rvsafetysystems.com/busproject.htm (updated 2/17/05) | ||
| Mike Linnercarshow
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Hi Jim, I have seen your site before. Good luck with Doran. The damage that Randy from Smartire is talking about is hitting a curb and damaging the TPMS. We both agree TPMS is very helpful. Great to see your response and imput and have a great night. | ||
| Ross Carlisle (Rrc62)
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Regarding the federal endorsement, read the blurb again. It's nothing more than Smartire themselves anouncing that the feds will require tire pressure monitoring systems "Like the one we make." Any system on the market is capable of direct, real time pressure measurment, which would probably meet the federal requirements. I don't see anything from the feds that says the Startire system is the only one that they will sign off on. I like the Doran system so far. Tire Sentry looks cool, but it looks like it only triggers a warning if the pressure drops. It doesn't actually display the pressure. Ross | ||
| Mike Linner
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Ross, You are correct Smartire is one of several making a direct system. Smartire is the pioneer of TPMS (tire pressure monitor system) All new cars and light trucks under 10,000 pounds in the United States will be required to have TPMS by 2008. | ||
| Gary Stadler (Boogiethecat)
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I know this is not necessarily the place for ebay stuff, BUT it seems a legit part of this subject thread. This guy is selling new 4 tire systems that do both pressure AND temperature the same way smartire does, for a whopping $79 bucks/new system. Item number: 7976356908 Any takes as to either why this setup is so cheap, or smartire is so expensive? Heck for $79 I might just get one to mess with it and report back...!!! IN FACT, if you look at the seller's photos, the sensors look awfully similar to the photos on the smartire website. Perhaps these are older first generation systems being blown out? Comments? | ||
| David Hartley (Drdave)
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Tools; ( Old School ) Good flashlight. Tire Gauge. Ball Pene hammer or Tire spoon. Reasonably good eyesight and hearing. If it resonates its good. If it clunks its bad. If there are chunks missing or loose its bad. |