Author |
Message |
kevin schooler (Sylverstone_pd4501864)
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | Posted on Thursday, July 14, 2005 - 3:50 pm: | |
hail and well met so i finally got bit by the bug, and bought myself a bus. i was lucky enough to find the one i always wanted so far our tale is as follows. replace starter in bus hunt down fuel problem (electric fuel pump with slagged diaphram) remove faulty electric pump from system, fire it up. lots of smoke :/ dumped a can of seafoam in the primary filter dumped a can of seafoam in the secondary filter dumped 3 cans of seafoam in the tank (sticked to 6", about 50 gallons, 20 of which were new, put in when we thought she was below the pickup) drove her from oak harbor to coupeville. changed oil and filter, (24 quarts of delo 100) cleaned the brake pedal assembly. (now she doesn't try to throw me through the windsheild when i hit the brakes). replaced the air leveling valves in the rear, (now she doesn't list to the left really bad). drove her from coupeville to mt vernon, then shut off air to shutter stat that was leaking really bad (shutters are stuck, fixing that right now) (no more air leaks i can hear, pressure steady at 105 psi) drove her to donnas truck stop, dumped in 50 gallons of diesel, then drove her to woodinville. she smokes a lot less now. now on to the questions if you would be so kind pd 4501 - 864 8v71 diesel 1) power steering had a huge hole in a line. replaced line, filled system with power steering fluid as per motor truck in mt vernon, wa, and it works, but occasionally makes funny noises. any suggestions? 2) voltage is swinging from 11 to 15 or so, i think it's independent of rpm. voltage regulator is a huge aluminum box that does not seem to affect the bright / dim / bright / dim issue when i fiddle with it. alternator appears to be a huge gear driven oil cooled unit on the back of the engine. any suggestions? 3) i would really like to convert her to negative ground, any suggestions? thank you -dd |
TWODOGS (Twodogs)
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | Posted on Thursday, July 14, 2005 - 5:51 pm: | |
#864....of 1000....4501 the sexiest bus EVER...HOW fast is the swinging of voltage,sounds like the regulator needs rebuilt,alternator sounds fine,I know the wires on the back of amp. guage need to be switched if you change to neg.ground,not sure about the rest of the stuff,you might need to change fuel filters again,ALWAYS have a spare set of fuel filters WITH you.. try turning steering wheel all the way left/all the way right,this 'burps' the system,getting air out..(refill) |
kevin schooler (Sylverstone_pd4501864)
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | Posted on Thursday, July 14, 2005 - 7:58 pm: | |
not sure how fast the swing is, but it lessened when i tinkered with the regulator... i'll time it when i can start it later (right now it would cause a serious smokescreen in my neighborhood) ... but i'd say about once a second or so? i've got spares for all belts, both fuel filters, oil filter, and a case of delo 100 and a case of the power steering fluid with me... (learned about spares early in life heh ) i'm headed to yakima wa in about 12 hours with her, and the bays are packed to the top with gear (going reinacting for the weekend) so i should have most of the bugs worked out by time i return... wish me luck the bright / dim / bright / dim thing isn't too annoying, so i think she'll be fine for the trip, but i really need to fix it or get it replaced... heard there was a solid state replacement but i've had no luck finding one yet.  |
Stan
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | Posted on Thursday, July 14, 2005 - 8:56 pm: | |
Where are all the GM nuts? Are not all 4501 models negative ground? |
TWODOGS (Twodogs)
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | Posted on Thursday, July 14, 2005 - 10:36 pm: | |
call LUKE about the regulator..888-262-2434 |
Tom Caffrey (Pvcces)
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | Posted on Thursday, July 14, 2005 - 11:39 pm: | |
Kevin, you should be using an analog meter for reading the battery voltage. Digital one give funny readings when the voltage varies too fast. Since the 4104s of that age were positive graound, I see no reason that the 4501s would be different. It would be a good idea if you check for warm batteries while on any trip until you get your charging system working the way that you want. As long as the batteries stay cool and there is enough charging to give you good starting power, you will probably be alright. Good luck on your trip. Tom Caffrey PD4106-2576 Suncatcher |
kevin schooler (Sylverstone_pd4501864)
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | Posted on Thursday, July 14, 2005 - 11:56 pm: | |
hey, thanks guys... i'll give luke a call tomorrow maybe... (it's like 9:00 pm here now) i was using an analog meter, and it's definitely all over the place :/ rig is verified positive ground. -dd |
TWODOGS (Twodogs)
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | Posted on Friday, July 15, 2005 - 12:21 am: | |
talk to luke about wanting it neg. ground....he can have you a regulator at your house when you get back.. |
Kyle Brandt (Kyle4501)
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | Posted on Friday, July 15, 2005 - 8:23 am: | |
Congrats on your fine choice of busses. I too have a 4501 & love it. So far, the parts seem to be available for them, just not abundantly and sometimes not easy to find. It sounds like the power steering still has a little air in the lines. My bus was already converted to neg. ground when I got it. The gear driven unit was (removed and the hole was plated over) replaced with a truck (BIG) alternator that is belt driven (at the rear of the bus). This seems to work well as the bus air has been removed. Enjoy the ride! kyle4501 |
pete hyser (4501pete)
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | Posted on Friday, July 15, 2005 - 8:52 am: | |
yo kevin, luke just changed my 4501 to neg ground best thing i ever did....well...the allison auto was the best..but this was second best.. Stan, All 4501's were oridiginally pos ground 2 dawg, 1001..i was corrected last week.. Kevin, mine when it sits for a bit belches a ton of smoke..i decided to try an injector cleaner every tank..and holy hell what a difference..i hit 9 mpg going to NC fully loaded..im 26,700 i put another 4000 lbs for dry camping and it pured . after it sat for a week and a half i started it up and there wasnt one bit of smoke. luke and mike also fixed the pulsing of the alt..it wasnt bad but it never seemed to to fully charge..now..perfect.. my 2 cents pete 4501-841 |
Richard Bowyer (Drivingmisslazy)
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | Posted on Friday, July 15, 2005 - 9:38 am: | |
Try turning on all the lights and any other 12 volt loads you have. Sometimes these units like to have some load before they will settle down. Richard |
Stan
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | Posted on Friday, July 15, 2005 - 11:11 am: | |
Pete: When Greyhound changed the 4501 to the 8V71 did they keep a generator and carbon pile regulator or did they use a DN50 with electronic regulator on positive ground? My only experience with a 4501 was with a MCI-7 Combo but I did lots of work on old 4104 generator systems. |
pete hyser (4501pete)
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | Posted on Friday, July 15, 2005 - 1:21 pm: | |
the dn50, the reg is in the battey compartment and is also pos ground keep in mind that everything can be altered by anyone..i checked the markings and called them into luke. |
DMDave
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | Posted on Friday, July 15, 2005 - 10:54 pm: | |
Maybe you have the original generator instead of a altenator which might account for your pulsing. We changed over from gen to alt and pos to neg ground. Search the archives. You will have to change some guages and senders, we needed a longer shaft to drive the Leese Neville alt. it drove off the fuel pump gears. Alot of the o4's have done the change over. Dreading doing it was much worse than actually doing it. Enjoy your coach |
Jim Bob
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | Posted on Saturday, July 16, 2005 - 11:23 am: | |
I have a DN50 oil cooled alternator. It pulses when there is light load. If you turn on the HVAC blowers it stops. I had it tested & they said it was the regulator. Jim-Bob |
kevin schooler (Sylverstone_pd4501864)
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | Posted on Monday, July 18, 2005 - 1:40 pm: | |
thanks guys so i did 500 miles over the weekend, and she's running pretty well, although she smokes under load. couldn't climb hills any higher than second on my way over (seattle to yakima and back, roughly) but she'd do 'em in 3rd on the way back, so things are improving. 6 mpg, rig was loaded with lots of gear. not bad for mountain climbing. steering is still a bit loose to me (1/4 turn of slop or so?) but i can't figure out where it is (i have a feeling it's the nature of the beast) whenever i'd get the wheels in a groove or on a pavement seam or something she'd try to follow it. electrical is still doing the pulse thing, even under load... ironically enough it doesn't do it at idle though. (it does do it at fast idle) i'm going to call luke in a few minutes. my current concern is that she really creeps me out going down big hills. i feel that pit-of-your-stomach uncomfy feeling at anything over 45ish... downgrades at 45 is perfectly okay to me, except that she seems to pop out of third gear, so i have to go down in 4th or second, and second is like 20-25, and 4th will not keep the rig slowed down (she gains momentum) not sure where to start on fixing this. ... and the speedo is realy weird, and waves all over every once in a while, so all the above speed numbers may be way off. i suspect it's stray voltage or it's an open somewhere. in union gap i had one of the truck stop lube racks lube the entire chassis, and change the lubricants in the transmission and the rearend, and adjust my air brakes. 200 bucks seemed pretty reasonable when i saw the volume of lubricants (synthetic) involved. heh the speed downgrade thing really creeps me out. twice i could smell brakes and feel them fade and that's all sorts of not okay. :/ has anyone lowered the floor in one of these? (i'm not going to, i just want to know where things are, since i want to do a shower on the right side, above the drive axle, and i figured bulkhead style doors so i don't have to mess with the aisle construction) and how do i get to the bottom belcrank on the shift linkage? my 2-3 and 3-4 are like a mautilus machine for my right arm :/ thanks for all the tips guys -dd |
John that newguy
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | Posted on Tuesday, July 19, 2005 - 12:57 am: | |
Whoooooo.. "she seems to pop out of third gear" You don't want it "popping" out of any gear. First, make sure it's not a simple linkage adjustment. Does it "pop" out of first? If you determine that it only is popping out of third, and no a linkage problem, then get the tranny rebuilt ASAP, or get a replacement tranny. Third gear is your working gear. It takes you to 55mph (usually) and is the gear you'll be using most often in town, in traffic, pulling hills, or going down hills. If it's popping out, it's likely a chipped tooth or loose/worn bearing. It sounds like it'd be worth the price of a tranny! Cheers, man! |
TWODOGS (Twodogs)
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | Posted on Tuesday, July 19, 2005 - 8:10 am: | |
I think jtng has it...fix 3rd gear....it is a VERY important gear...1,2,3 in town....& on STEEP downnhills... |
kevin schooler (Sylverstone_pd4501864)
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | Posted on Thursday, July 21, 2005 - 5:01 pm: | |
does anyone know how to get to the shift linkage bellcrank under the stairs? -dd |
David Hartley (Drdave)
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | Posted on Friday, July 22, 2005 - 12:29 pm: | |
There are two adjusters at the bottom of the shifter housing that operate the rods between the bell crank at the bottom of the first step. To reach the bell crank ( there are 2 arms (lower) and two arms (upper) there should still be the vent screens on the side of the stairs. Those have to be removed to get to them. However that is not usually where the shifter problem is located. That jumping out of gear ( providing the greabox is not damaged) can be adjusted at the top forward bell crank & linkage above the drive axle from underneath the coach or down through the access hole in the center aisle floor ( here again if its still there and removable.) Otherwise you have to go under the coach. You can pull the tire off the tag axle and get back into the area at the tranny to adjust the linkages to make sure you get the full throws for 1-2 and 3-4 just remember that reverse is tied to 2nd gear position and the solenoid on top of the tranny pushes and pulls sideways on the slider for the 1-2 shift linkage. Former PD45101#598 owner.. Good luck, Install an auto as fast as you can! The spicer 4 speed is a non-syncro PIG! with sqaure cut gears and very easy to trash the teeth with an out of adjustment shift linkage. Bernhard was the last place I found with a spicer for the cruisers. Most were date stamped 1970(s) Oh.. Lowering the floors. Passenger side can be done easily witha lot of sweat, cussing and cutting but you have to reinforce the area bracing before you put down a new floor. The drivers side upper floor means moving air tanks, installing air throttle system, and usually an automatic transmission since all that mechanical & linkage stuff runs along the tunnel/aisle to the back. Just Wasn't my cup of tea so the cruiser went away for me I now get scared thinking about trying to resurrect a 50 year old bus. Dave.... |
gusc
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | Posted on Friday, July 22, 2005 - 3:23 pm: | |
It isn't clear to me if the 3rd gear popout was before or after the lube or both? Don't know about 4105s but my 4104 uses 50 wt oil in the spicer 4sp manual. These trans use pumps to circulate the lube, 90w is too heavy for the pump. If your Spicer is the same, which I suspect, I wonder if the truck stop knew that when they changed yours? If they put in the wrong weight (90w) this plus the use of synthetic is a possible reason it pops out of third. |
gusc
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | Posted on Friday, July 22, 2005 - 3:27 pm: | |
I'm a newbie and forgot to ask, what the heck is seafoam? |
Jack Conrad (Jackconrad)
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | Posted on Friday, July 22, 2005 - 5:18 pm: | |
seafoam is a diesel fuel additive. Jack |
Dave and Mel
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | Posted on Friday, July 22, 2005 - 7:06 pm: | |
Dr Dave - is it possible to lower the floor in the lower area (the front area)? Our bus was purchased with the upper floor already lowered. Except of course over the engine. We are in the process (a long process) of installing an automatic tranny, so I think some of the 'stuff' under the floor will not be needed after we put in the new shifter. Dave and Melanie PD4501-297 |
kevin schooler (Sylverstone_pd4501864)
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | Posted on Friday, July 22, 2005 - 8:59 pm: | |
pete: is that red and polished rig yours? (if not, who's got pics of it) how much did it cost you to do the negative ground conversion? (i'm leaving for pittsburg with the bus in 48 hours, like it or not, so i figured when i was in the rough area i could have it done, and fix the voltage reg issue at the same time) i got the bus nice and warm (about 20 miles with the fan belts disconnected) then i shut it down, dumped both the fuel filters, filled 'em with seafoam, started it, ran it for 5 minutes, shut it down and let it sit overnight. dumped 4 cans into the tank (had 60 gallons of old diesel in it) and the next morning i put the fan belts back on, started it (wow what a lot of smoke, whoohoo) and ran it down to donna's truck stop, dumped in 6 more cans of seafoam and filled it to the top with diesel, then ran it 500 miles (call it seattle to yakima and back) seems to be fine now. david: pulled the vent screens (they appear to be intakes) also pulled the access plate in the bathroom. it looks to me like the whole system failed at some point (there's a huge hole in the assembly that the sink sits on top of) ... the bellcrank under the stairs was buried in dirt and gunk, i cleared it with a screwdriver and a shop vac, but i can't figure out how to lube the stupid thing. looks like the tanks for the bathroom have to come out (fine, it's going away anyway) ... does anyone know what the air tank in that bay does (it's in the way) the clevis pins where the linkage hooked to the tranny, for the 3/4 rod, were so far out that the holes were bigger than the heads of the pins. (i'm installing new bushings as soon as i post this, work is done, just gotta get under the bus again :/ ... and i'm looking to go with a 9 speed and a bigger engine. 8v92 has come up in conversation a lot, but i'd like a kitty. anyone have suggestions? gusc: work order says: quantity / part number / description / price 34.00 MO / * / spirax 75-90EW / 68.00 20.00 / Mobil Trans shc50 / Synthetic gear oil / 57.40 op tech / description / time / rate / price LU / EC Flush Trans and Rearend / 1.00 / 68.00 / 68.00 union gap is at the top of tyhe mountain for the most part, so i have no idea if it was popping out of third before... (only does it downgrade) seafoam is awesome http://www.seafoamsales.com john: that's what i was afraid of, hoping the linkage fixes the problem, if not i'll be crawling down in second. thanks guys -dd |
kevin schooler (Sylverstone_pd4501864)
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | Posted on Saturday, July 23, 2005 - 11:58 am: | |
gah. what a nightmare. looks like the only way to get to that bellcrank up close and personal is to pull out the heater core and the ac condensor. .. heater core came out easy, condensor looks like it has two bolts through it's flanges that go through the floor. used an angle grinder and got the passenger side one. i can't find the one on the drivers side. measuring from the far side of the bus and the big front bay bulkhead, i've got 4 bolts within 6" of where that bolt should be, and one empty hole within 1", but the ac unit won't come out. that and i uncovered a bit of a mess. what it looks like to me is that the air intakes in the bus pull air in from the outside of the bus on the sides, and from intakes located to the sides, and under, the stairs. this pulls a ton of dirt into this area (about a 4" layer of it) that combined with a leaking something in the bathroom, did the rest. the stuff is like paper mache or a weak concrete i pulled out the air tank and water tank that sit under the bathroom on the drivers side, looking for an access panel. there isn't one. well, there is but only half of it is screws, the rest is rivets and it isn't going to come out easy (i'm not touching it) the air tank is very rusty and the valve on the bottom came off in my hand, so now i have a huge air leak. is this tank important, or is it just an air surge tank for the bathroom facillities? i'm going to need to cut out the blackwater tank i think. the brackets are very badly rusted, and the floor under all of this has corodded fist sized holes in it. (it looks really bad to me ) the blackwater tank has partially fallen through the floor. from the looks of it, when they built her they cut out the floor and bolted in a flat plate for all this to sit on. looks factory to me anyway. what i would like to do is cut out this entire section, and tig in a new peice of the washboard flooring they used everywhere else... i can imagine that "chunk of scenicruiser floor" is not a local napa part, anyone have any suggestions? it looks to me like it hasn't eaten the main flooring (the washboard looking stuff) and with some railroad ties i can get the bus up enough to cut it all out and weld in new material. also looks to me like i can get a 75 gallon greywater and a 50 gallon blackwater tank in this space pretty easily once i cut out the cancer and fix the floor. (grey water on top of the blackwater to aid in flushing the tanks) so, any suggestions? thanks guys -dd |
kevin schooler (Sylverstone_pd4501864)
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | Posted on Sunday, July 24, 2005 - 12:16 am: | |
allrighty. so the scenicruiser is slowly coming together. i put 2 new bushings in the 3rd / 4th linkage, and lubed the entire shift linkage from one end to the other. the bottom bellcrank aqppears to only be accesible by removing the heater core and the ac condensor, and crawling in from the passenger side. i pulled 2 5 gallon buckets of random junk out of the ac bay... ugh. leaving around 3pm tomorrow for pennsic (slipery rock pensylvania) wish me luck -dd |
kevin schooler (Sylverstone_pd4501864)
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | Posted on Friday, July 29, 2005 - 6:02 pm: | |
hey y'all from sunny south dakota... so far i've had to replace 2 hydraulic steering hoses, a battery cable and 5 gallons of oil... finally quit eating oil and smoking so much in the middle of wyoming... still poping out of third, but second works fine for those long downhills. -dd |
pete hyser (4501pete)
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | Posted on Saturday, July 30, 2005 - 5:14 pm: | |
kevin, i have a maroon and silver with black trim....i with the red and silver one was mine..lol well..maybe not i had the same prob with the popping out of third..sometimes having to hold it into place.that could be a chutch adjustment..after mine did that..it started to lock in gear..the pivots wore badley..then the cables behind the drivers seam under the floor snapped..hence the new allison |
kevin schooler (Sylverstone_pd4501864)
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | Posted on Thursday, August 04, 2005 - 10:46 am: | |
well, i made it to lukes, so as soon as we can get it over the pit i'll know all the bad news... his hospitality has been great, definitely have learned enough to make the extra 800 miles worth it, but man the weather here sucks. whidbey island washington to berlin nj, in a 50 year old bus that hadn't been driven anywhere in 10 years... not to shabby -dd |
Ed (Ednj)
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | Posted on Thursday, August 04, 2005 - 9:21 pm: | |
Hey - it was nice to meet you down at Luke's today. Good luck with your bus, and your journey. |