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ChuckMC9 (Chucks)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, September 29, 2005 - 11:11 am: | |
German Firm Uses Fuel Cell to Recharge RV
RV Business
Wednesday, September 7, 2005
Germany-based Smart Fuel Cell AG announced Tuesday (Aug. 6) that its methanol-powered fuel cell is standard equipment on a motorhome produced by Hymer AG.
Red Herring, a technology trade publication, reported that the A50 cell model used in the 22-foot motorhome will not help power the vehicle and won’t affect gas mileage. Instead, the cell will continuously recharge the battery to run onboard devices such as parking heaters, satellite and television systems, lighting, and digital gadgets.
Hymer, a German builder servicing Europe and Asia, is also offering the fuel cell as an option in its B-Class and B-Star-Line vehicles.
Red Herring said that while one analyst doesn’t dispute that this is the first time a fuel cell is being shipped for commercial vehicles, he said it is not the first time a fuel cell is being used to run such devices in vehicles.
"Every little bit helps, but it’s not propelling the vehicle," said Dan Benjamin, a senior analyst at ABI Research. "It’s not a fuel-cell-powered vehicle, not by a long stretch."
Still, Smart Fuel Cell, called this the world's first commercial fuel cell in an automotive application. The SFC A50 fuel cell was previously available as backup power for RVs and other recreational vehicles, but was not commercially integrated into a vehicle before now, the company said.
"Hymer’s adoption of our fuel cells as standard equipment in the S-Class signals the beginning of a new era," said Pieter Bots, Smart Fuel Cell’s chief marketing and sales officer. "We are extremely proud to be the first fuel cell manufacturer worldwide to finally offer a fully commercialized fuel cell to the automotive industry."
Red Herring said the industry still faces daunting challenges, including high cost, and the need for higher power density, smaller size, and infrastructure to make and distribute the new fuel.
Most vehicle manufacturers have been developing hydrogen-based fuel cells, while most companies working on micro fuel cells for electronics devices have concentrated on methanol.
Hymer will present the fuel-cell-equipped S Class at the Internationale Automobil-Ausstellung (IAA) 2005, or the IAA International Motor Show 2005, which begins in Frankfurt, Germany, on Sept. 15. Smart Fuel Cell said it is currently in negotiations with "numerous potential international cooperation partners" in a wide range of automotive applications.
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Brian Brown (Blue_velvet)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, September 29, 2005 - 11:42 am: | |
From this press release about the same fuel cell:
The A50 is a methanol-based fuel cell that uses 5-liter cartridges. Each cartridge provides as much power as five car batteries, and is enough to power certain systems on a motor home for four to 14 days, according to the company. Smart Fuel Cell and Hymer have worked together for three years to bring fuel cells to motor homes, and spent a lot of that time reducing the price, according to Hymer.
The cartridges will cost €19.90 ($24.95), and the fuel cell itself will cost €2,999 ($3,742) when purchased separately or as an option.
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Umm... my knee-jerk reaction is that five bucks a quart is a LOT to pay for a fuel source (of course, this is the EU where fuels are taxed heavily). And good luck finding some at o'dark thirty on the road somewhere.
The nearly $4k would have paid for a NICE inverter and batt bank and still have some $ left over.
Let's not forget that methanol still requires more fossil fuel to produce than just using fossil fuel in the first place. ADM, et al have spent a lot of $ to obfuscate this fact to the powers that be here in the US of A.
One step forward, two steps back...
Am I off base here??
bb |
Ed Jewett (Kristinsgrandpa)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, September 29, 2005 - 12:37 pm: | |
Since when is 5 liters a quart?
Ed |
Stan
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, September 29, 2005 - 3:13 pm: | |
5 liters = 4.4 US quarts
4.4 quarts cost US$24.95
1 quart cost $5.67 |
Stan
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, September 29, 2005 - 3:22 pm: | |
Sorry, I did the conversion to imperial quarts.
5 liters = 5.28 US quarts
5.28 quarts cost $24.95
1 quart cost $4.66 |
Username
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, September 30, 2005 - 11:25 am: | |
Brian, you are indeed off base regarding the energy cost of methanol production. Granted, "modern" agricultural techniques are indeed extremely energy expensive; there's a saying that modern agriculture is the use of sun, air, water, and soil to turn petroleum into food.
In theory, one could expend an infinite # of calories as input to the production of a single calorie of output; this is nothing new, just simple energy inefficiency, found throughout 'modern' industrial societies. Aside from issues of sloth, contempt for the biosphere, etc., this is merely the financially optimum one of many ways to achieve a particular result - if you assume low energy costs and nonexistent waste (CO2) disposal costs. If, however, you revalue those inputs, then everything else changes.....
So, you are basically comparing apples and oranges, and in doing so you are evidencing shortsightedness, bigotism, spite, etc. |
Brian Brown (Blue_velvet)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, September 30, 2005 - 11:59 am: | |
Um Username is it?? Please illuminate us on the current energy cost of producing methanol. That's what I was talking about. Reality. Yours is pie-in-the-sky hokum. Please refer to the "obfuscate" part of my previous post. Yours is more of the same... under an assumed name.
Don't take my word for it: http://www.news.cornell.edu/stories/July05/ethanol.toocostly.ssl.html
A quote for the above link: "The government spends more than $3 billion a year to subsidize ethanol production when it does not provide a net energy balance or gain."
Not that you'll tell us, but is there any chance you're receiving a little chunk of that $3 billion, Username??
Brian "That's my REAL name" Brown |
Mike (Busone)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, September 30, 2005 - 11:51 pm: | |
Right on Brian, the truth is the truth. |
username
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, October 01, 2005 - 1:56 am: | |
Brian, I am just ROFLMAO!!! Gonna lay a little 'follow the money' obfuscation on me, eh? Sorry, dude, I'm not in the industry at all.
The Cornell study has already been discredited, BTW. Simple fact: the energy cost of producing a quantum of food energy varies enormously, depending on the production process. Again: one could devise an infinitely expensive means of production. This is both inarguable and irrelevant; more to the point is determining the most inexpensive means of production. The methods common to current industrial style farming, which are implicit to the Cornell report, are nowhere near optimal.
And as for you, Mike, you can keep on making effectively worthless jingoistic exhortations, e.g. "A = A, so take that, you pansy-ass treehugger!" all day long, but it ain't gonna save you any money on car insurance.
Go get some clues, dudes. Your chestbeating about irrelevancies only shows the extent of your insecurity in the face of change. |
FAST FRED
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, October 01, 2005 - 5:47 am: | |
WE used to laff at the Soviets for 75 years of "bad growing weather".
Today we lavish $175 BILLION on out "farmers" (actually CODE farmers) and can look foward to giving even more farm welfare NEXT year , forever!!
Methanol is just a cash cow for ADM for 45 subsidized years , so far at about 5 Billion per year. Gasahol reduces the fuel milage by the methanol content.
10% methanol , 10% poorer gas milage , but the air is "better".
As Will Rogers used to say,
"WE have the best government Money can by".
FAST FRED |
Brian Brown (Blue_velvet)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, October 01, 2005 - 12:30 pm: | |
quote:The methods common to current industrial style farming, which are implicit to the Cornell report, are nowhere near optimal.
All you're doing is proving my point for me. Thanks.
Now take your little biomass nirvana theories and go troll someplace else, Username.
bb |
username
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, October 01, 2005 - 1:03 pm: | |
bb, you just crack me up! I in no way proved your point, and neither have you.
You can run along now, with your fear-ostrich... |
Mike (Busone)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, October 01, 2005 - 3:51 pm: | |
I smell a troll in this thread! |
Dale L. Waller (Happycampersrus)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, October 01, 2005 - 7:16 pm: | |
Mike, I don't think a troll is what you smell. I believe username is full of natural gas. Maybe we can harness him for an alternate fuel source? |
username
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, October 02, 2005 - 4:15 pm: | |
Dale, I fart in your general direction; enjoy! |
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