| Author | Message | ||
| H3-40 Rating: N/A |
The summer trip to Alabama went well until on the way home and after stopping for fuel for generator, I heard air purging from the system quite often, say like every 15-30 seconds and from previous trips I knew this was not right! After calling Prevost and explaining the problem, their opinion was that it was most likely the "air dryer". Two people have looked at the dryer and both have said it looks as though it was never serviced since new. Ok so now it's in the shop and they too say the same thing except that in 1992, the year of the coach, it calls for a AD-2 and this coach has a AD-9 which I'm told is a lot newer model. It's never been changed to my knowledge and it looks like it never has! Anyway, the shop says YES that the dryer is the problem and why the air keeps purging out from the system that often. The deccasant needs replacing. I say ok let's service it and check the whole system. That was Monday. Wednesday they say they changed the Governor first at 29 bucks and that didn't fix the problem. No big deal, but I thought we were servicing the dryer! Today I get a call and they say, it must be the compressor. BIG DEAL cuz that beast cost with labor 2000 bucks! Keep in mind that the air dryer has not been touched YET but they insist that the compressor is the problem. FWIW The coach airs up fine and holds good air pressure (125lbs) without leaking out except a little when brakes are applied and back up it goes afterward which is normal! Ok my question is: Is the whole problem the air dryer which they say from not being serviced, is dirty and clogged? That bill is a 600 dollar bill including labor. (Liveable) The governor was 29 bucks with 2 hours labor at 75 each which I didn't ask for but it was a process of elimination they say! (Like I said, No big deal!) Rebuilt compressor 600-900 bucks and 8 hours labor at 75 each. UGH! You do the math and add in what has already been done above! I know what ever it is it needs to be done but, if everyone initially thought it was the dryer, why would the compressor all of sudden be the problem? The compressor seems to be working just fine. It (the system) just blows air out more often than it should! Seems like something that started out to be a pretty simple fix from other opinions now turned into a major BIG DEAL from a shop! Not mis-trusting the shop but would feel better with more ideas! Thanks for any input as we are in a holding mode until I get some outside opinions! Ace | ||
| TWODOGS (Twodogs)
Rating: N/A |
boy ace....sounds like you are getting the screws put to you....I believe they will just keep replaceing parts till you make them stop... | ||
| Ed Jewett (Kristinsgrandpa)
Rating: N/A |
Ace, ask them to put shop air on it and see if it still does it, that should eliminate the compressor theory. Or take it home and do it yourself. Ed. | ||
| Buswarrior (Buswarrior)
Rating: N/A |
I'll be back to answer later, this sounds mighty fishy.... got to go to work! happy coaching! buswarrior | ||
| John MC9 Rating: N/A |
Ace - Get it the hell out of that shop before they take your last nickle. We've got a shop here also (Advanced Diesel; Melbourne, Fl) that's notorious for tripling the initial quote (if not more). Dial Bus is near you, aren't they? They are said to be real reasonable. The MCI garage in Kissimmee would be better than that shop you're in now, and they guarantee their work. | ||
| Sammy (Sammy)
Rating: N/A |
Ace, the governor does 3 things: monitors system pressure, unloads the compressor when air pressure reaches set pressure, and sends an air "signal" to the purge valve on the air dryer cap so it will open.The unloader valves are a servicable item on the Bendix air compressor.Sometimes you can get away with these only.No need to replace entire compressor.It appears that your problem is that the air compressor won't unload properly. The air dryer has a servicable purge valve assembly on it. 3 bolts hold it to the air dryer cap.Bendix has a kit to rebuild it,no big deal. The dessicant is a cartridge type canister that bolts to the inner plate of the dryer. Easy to replace too.If you're going to service the dryer yourself, put a reference mark on the air dryer housing and cap before disassembly - punch mark, paint pen, etc. Send an e-mail if you have more questions. Best of luck. Sammy | ||
| TWODOGS (Twodogs)
Rating: N/A |
I change my air gov. every 20.000....it takes 15 minutes & costs new 25.00...but...they just require disasemby & washing with liquid wrench...an air conpressor either works ,or it doesen't....sounds like yours was workimg....I'd say they plan on breeding you Ace.... | ||
| R. C. Bishop
Rating: N/A |
We "broke down" in a small town in IL last year..... starter went out...called for a tow from the Flying J...they were in sight about 200 yards or so from where we were parked on the outside curb. They came over with a crew of three, hooked on to the coach and in two minutes we were in a bay at the Big truck facility....also a part of the tow operation. The "crew chief" said when they got the call they quoted $325, as I recall, to the Insurance carrier (RVAA) but when we arrived in the bay, he said he was only going to charge $265 because they thought we were a Prevost or VanHool...... FWIW....  RCB '64 Crown Supercoach (HWC) | ||
| John MC9 Rating: N/A |
So, with my beat up '79 MC9, I oughta get off with about 30 bucks? | ||
| G Hummel
Rating: N/A |
ACE- I'm a Mack Trucks Parts Mgr in Tulsa. An AD9 purge valve repair kit is in the $25 area. I'm @ home so I don't have access to the exact prices. reman carts are +/- $60 as I recall. Need to know the part # on the compressor like 5002868 or a 6 diget # depending on 550/750 CFM to quote exact $'s but we have most in stock. U can call me tomorrow @ 800-375-9305 till noon Tulsa time Gordon | ||
| G Hummel
Rating: N/A |
ACE As a further note to the above, I would suggest you have this shop bypass the dryer & get it out of there. If the dryer has not been serviced in years it not working anyway. For trucks, we recommdend changing the cartridge yearly, @ 100k miles per year. Cheap insurance ! Gordon | ||
| Tim Jones (Torquester)
Rating: N/A |
Ace, It seems to me, based upon what you have described, the technicians in that shop don't know what they are doing (I won't go into the reasons why here). Six hundred bucks to rebuild an AD-9 is a rip-off. Parts to rebuild it should be 150.00 tops. I can do one in about an hour or less....maybe two hours if it is tough to remove. Get your coach out of there and into a shop that can diagnose the problem without throwing parts at it. | ||
| Buswarrior (Buswarrior)
Rating: N/A |
Hello Ace. 1) Get your bus out of that shop! 2) You are more than smart enough to work on this yourself, if you have the time and/or inclination. 3) You need a test rig: The air gauges on the dash only indicate the air pressure in the two brake system dry tanks (primary and secondary, front and back, whatever you want to call them...) If the wet tank pressure is swinging up and down, you'll not be able to tell with the dash gauges because there are one way check valves between the wet tank and the two brake dry tanks. For better trouble shooting, you'll need to put a gauge to the wet tank by removing the drain valve, and threading in a male air line quick disconnect with a shut off valve. Then you can put an air gauge with the correct fitting on the other end of a hose and you can place it conveniently to see from upstairs. 4) The purge valve in the air dryer is capable of making trouble when not maintained. When working correctly, the air pressure in the dryer and upstream to the compressor is released during the audible purge at compressor cut out. The line downstream to the tanks is sealed off during this event, and stays that way until the governor signals to cut-in. If the line to the tanks doesn't seal off, the resulting drop in wet tank air pressure, being dumped out the bottom of the air dryer, will quickly cycle the compressor back on again. The sensor line for the governor comes off the wet tank. (As an aside, in the colder weather, this same purge valve is the one that likes to freeze in that "shut off" position when the heating element or wiring has failed, blocking the compressor from building the system.) 5) Was the air system cycling correctly before this mysterious problem? By correctly I mean, if your air system cuts-out at 125 lbs, it was dropping to somewhere 100 to 105 lbs on the dash air gauges before the compressor cut-in to build it back up? The spread between governor cut-in and cut-out is typically 20 to 25 lbs. 6) The desicant is not directly related to this problem. The desicant is just the "water catching stuff" inside the air dryer. It loses effectiveness with use, and needs to be changed periodically, depending on the duty cycle. Worn out desicant just doesn't catch as much moisture, which ends up in the wet tank, just like in the old days, before anyone had air dryers. 7) You need to find that air leak you mentioned that you get when the brakes are applied and repair it. 8) Get your bus out of that shop! Let me know if I may be of any further assistance! happy coaching! buswarrior | ||
| Buswarrior (Buswarrior)
Rating: N/A |
Oops, forgot about the compressor: If it is making air pressure, and it isn't overbuilding the pressure, it sounds good from up here. They installed a new governor, so that's taken care of, (assuming it is working right) so my money is on an unintended loss of air, resulting in frequent cycling of the compressor. I like the suggestion of hooking up some shop air to it and seeing what you can see and hear. Get it home, brother, get it home! We'll coach you! happy coaching! buswarrior | ||
| FAST FRED Rating: N/A |
Of course other folks dont bother with a drier and simply pull the chain on the wet tank every day. Ain't progress grand? If you need to "run with da Big Boys " expect to pay the price. FAST FRED | ||
| H3-40 Rating: N/A |
Thanks for all the intelligent replies from all the decent folks that took the time to explain and post! I have learned a lot and will deal with it first of next week! I thought there might be something funny with their story but just wanted to make sure! FF I thought the thread asked for GURU's? Obviously, that surely doesn't include you! YOUR 2 cents wasn't even worth that much! You should have never considered including yourself in this thread. FYI I CAN pay the price but just didn't feel I wanted to if un-necessary. It's called being smart on the front end! Sooo, Looks like I'm still running with the big dogs, like it or not, while your still parked on the porch with your heap! Thanks again DECENT people! Ace | ||
| Kyle Brandt (Kyle4501)
Rating: N/A |
I'm no Guru, but would you care to share the facility name and results when the dust settles? It might help others. kyle4501 | ||
| R.C.Bishop
Rating: N/A |
Ace....that THING of yours is rearing it's ugly head again....I have read and re-read FF's post and find no malice there....He responded in a way that, if your name was not attached in some way, you probably would not have objected to either. Matter of fact, I have to agree with him. Really thought we were seeing a new ACE over recent months, but alas, what goes around really does seem to come around. You have a lot to offer in way of experience and questions.....so does FF. That's great for all of us. Sorry you took offense. Must have hit a sore spot. Keep on keepin' on..... RCB '64 Crown Supercoach (HWC) | ||
| airless in Jacksonville Rating: N/A |
This comment seemed to imply that ace could not afford to have his bus serviced. "If you need to "run with da Big Boys " expect to pay the price." I really do not feel that is the problem that he was asking about. He wanted to know if that place was ripping him off. I believe they are but I am not a air system guru. Some very brilliant minds here going to waste because of some very major egos getting in the way. It is nicer if we all play nice with other with our big toys. | ||
| John MC9 Rating: N/A |
Uhhhhh.... a bit out of context! "......other folks don't bother with a drier and simply pull the chain on the wet tank every day......... .......If you need to "run with da Big Boys " expect to pay the price....." I'm not one of FF's fan club members, but what he seems to me to be saying, is if you want to use the so-called "high tech" methods and have automatic air drying, expect to pay the price of it. It's not necessary to use an air dryer, if one lets the water out on a daily basis. You can save the expense of the filters and the time of maintenance, by simply ejecting the condensation at the end of every trip. So, what the hell's the problem here? | ||
| FAST FRED Rating: N/A |
"if you want to use the so-called "high tech" methods and have automatic air drying, expect to pay the price of it. " OR at least get Da Book from the good folks that built a system and attempt to maintain it, (or if incapable , have it done) BEFORE it breaks. The Po Boy method of driving till it it DIES is NOT OK with a vehicle of this size. If the air drier is never serviced , we all had better PRAY the "automatic" slack adjusters are working . H3, as usual my response was NOT to you but to the wannabees who are attempting to decide if this is a rational hobby for them , and how complex a coach they need, and can maintain. FAST FRED | ||
| R.C.Bishop
Rating: N/A |
Sender + receiver = "communication"....what did the sender say; what did the receiver THINK he said. Goes on all the time. Doesen't mean the sender is wrong....doesn't mean the receiver is correct. Appropriate and civil pull out Fred!.... What a fantastic board....Thanx once more, Ian! RCB | ||
| H3-40 Rating: N/A |
FF your in and about but humble appology is accepted! | ||
| Marc Bourget Rating: N/A |
I don't consider FF's response an apology, Ace. He explained that his comment was directed to others, not you. Understandable, since you oftentimes respond to comments, compliments, and criticisms depending on your feelings toward the author, not the content of the message. In this thread, I gave (and give) you more credit and figured you posted thinking you might be missing something (but you weren't - except your cash, that is!). You're more patient and generous, on the surface to the repair person that was messing with you than to FF who wasn't. | ||
| John MC9 Rating: N/A |
Uhm. www.BusNutandHeadShrink.com Got a nice ring to it, I@n! | ||
| H3-40 Rating: N/A |
Went to the shop yesterday and discussed this matter one one one and after a few word stumbles and diagrams drawn by the mechanic, he agreed to do the air dryer first. That was my choice since I also talked to a few other people on the phone and they too seemed it was the culprit. He had the NEW dryer there on the bench and said it wouldn't be a problem to do that first and see! He also said that he hopes after installing the new dryer that he was wrong! What kind of bothered me was the fact that his "young" assistant said that he really wasn't looking forward to the job because of where the dryer is located and the rusty condition it is in! We agreed that because of it's condition it would be safer to change the cover and the internal parts alone and leave the canister mounted to the frame. He said if the bolts were to break from dis-mounting, he would have a real problem! So I agreed to leave it and change the more important parts! I confronted hom with all the opinions everyone has left here and he kind of just snickered and well, back peddled a little but agreed to do the dryer! He actually had another problem with another bus where an A/C mechanic from a private company came there to do some work and backed into an Eagle that was there for service work which tore away some of the siding from the now bent frame work. Well the owner came as I was there and the news was broke! The owner took it pretty good and said, "just get it fixed", and he would be back in a couple of days! I guess sometimes we just have to feel like we are the lucky ones! I talked to the Eagle owner for about 1 hour about our busses and everything was cool! Now if only the dryer fixes the problem and it isn't the compressor as he, the mechanic still thinks it is! Ace Oh and Marc... thanks for giving me credit. Coming from you, I feel like an honor student but I know FF's intentions and anytime he post on my threads, it's meant for me! As for being more patient withthe shop than FF? Yes, they have my coach, he doesn't! | ||
| Jack Conrad (Jackconrad)
Rating: N/A |
Ace, In case you did not notice it, I set the satellitte receiver in you bus behind the drivers seat. Hope the dryer fixes it. Jack | ||
| Marc Bourget Rating: N/A |
Ace, you're welcome. Wouldn'ta said it if I didn't believe it. Point of clarification. I've spent considerable time with FF at three Bussin' events and overnighted at his house and walked his neighborhood. Classic FF activity is to witness something similar to what you experienced, (what's wrong with this picture I'm seeing, etc.) and out empathy, lightly chide the person to make them think about what they're "missing" and to prompt them out of the "mental loop" they're trapped in. You interpret this type of conduct as personal -directed towards you - and it is, but to motivate not to embarass or insult. Unfortunately, lots of energy is wasted in the misunderstanding. Hope the dryer repair works out for you. | ||
| H3-40 Rating: N/A |
Jack yes I got it, thanks! I'll settle up with you the next time we meet! You just never know when I'll be in THAT area! Ace | ||
| Buswarrior (Buswarrior)
Rating: N/A |
Thanks for keeping us up to date, Ace. If there continue to be problems, be darned sure they prove to you why they are blaming the compressor by demonstrating their testing procedures. It still smells like rats around that shop. happy coaching! buswarrior | ||
| H3-40 Rating: N/A |
Ok latest update! I received a call this morning from the shop mechanic and what he told is that he was wrong! Now that's a first and now I feel a lot better and I will go back for more work when needed! He said that the dryer was causing the problem and when he bypassed the dryer with shop air, it tricked him into thinking the compressor was bad. He also said the dryer that was originally said to be a AD-4 by prevost and then he thought it was an AD-2 without seeing it, then an AD-9 after seeing it, finally turned out to be an AD-4 afterall! He said they (the 4 and 9) looked similar. Anyway after changing the dryer and checking the rest of the system, everything is working as it should, Normal! That was a relief for the both of us. He DID say that IF he did change the compressor and it wasn't the problem, that I would NOT have to pay for it. Jokingly we both laughed when I said, NOW you tell me! Thanks again for all the "positive" replies and in helping me to steer this in the right direction and allowing it to NOT become an unnecessary huge bill, even though I COULD have paid it, regardless of what FF thinks! LOL We will be out of town racing this weekend but we will give it a test drive bringing it home earlier next week as my friend the cabinet maker needs work! Thanks again... Ace | ||
| Jack Conrad (Jackconrad)
Rating: N/A |
Ace, Glad to hear they got the problem corrected without replacing un-neccessary parts. | ||
| niles steckbauer (Niles500)
Rating: N/A |
Ace - it sounds like HC owes "the board" $2k - just tell 'em to paypal it to 'Prestige Online Services' - Seriously, hope that was the LAST delayed maintenance item that needs servicing on your coach - I guess your using Cherry cabs, its gonna look sweet - Niles | ||
| H3-40 Rating: N/A |
Niles I don't think they will pay the 2K so take em to court if you must! Yea Niles we hope so but it won't look as sweeet as the PR ride you have! LOL They won't even me park mine next to yours but then again yours wasn't on the news! Ace | ||
| niles steckbauer (Niles500)
Rating: N/A |
Ace - Didn't know how much you loved my paint job - I can get you a copy real cheap - those colors are ALWAYS available 'on sale' - No reserved parking for those of us who camp in the Woods - If I were you I'd stay within the designated area, as the PR neighbohood tends to be a little rowdy late at night and sometimes inebriated Canucks can be heard bouncing off rigs till the wee hours - Niles | ||
| H3-40 Rating: N/A |
Niles as for parking in the woods? I think I'll take my chances where I was before. At least all I have to do is HEAR you guys in the woods and not... well, you get the picture! The site of you guys in the morning wasn't worth the hassle of pitting on dirt and tree limbs but I WILL take you up on the seminars! THAT was priceless! Ac | ||
| Buswarrior (Buswarrior)
Rating: N/A |
Hi Ace Never a nice thing when a guy shoots from the lip, behaving like he knows what he's doing when he doesn't. Nice that he was either a good guy in hiding or smart enough to figure out you knew something and had access to resources. Bendix has a lot of materials online for us to reference/download to help us be informed. Niles, only fences and gates, no rigs, EH? happy coaching! buswarrior |