| Author | Message | ||
| TomNPat
Rating: N/A |
Guys, Have read this board for years and have a question. Winter time is fast approaching and it seems that the season dictates help in starting/making sure it runs/getting DOWN THE ROAD in a Detroit diesel. We have lots of experts that can help me with my winter trip. The Question: Is it better to idle all night or to use starting fluid to get it going after I turn it off? Webastos and block heaters do no qualify as an answer since they are only available to certain types of vehicles and depends on where those vehicles are parked. Answers invoking these options will be discredited due to lack of originality and reality! Let's pretend they don't exist (as to an old time truck driver!)! All the gurus on this board should provide me the real answer. And I appreciate their wisdom tremendously! The best answer wins my admiration. TomNPat | ||
| pipes
Rating: N/A |
T&P I AM NOT AN EXPERT (Assuming you have a Detroit) but having/had several flavors of Detroit engines, when it gets down to 40 deg, they are hard to start but will after 3-6 trys, as it gets colder the worse it gets In the 30's and below, almost No start before killing the batterys. The best way to start in cold weather (40-30 DEG ) is to roll the engine over for about 4-5 seconds then wait for about 20 seconds. Do this several times until it starts. If that don't work Your engine WILL need some form of PREHEATING, such as a block heater or webasto type coolant heater. That's my story. Believe it or not. | ||
| pipes Rating: N/A |
PS......ALL Detroit engines have a place to install a block heater as most do other commercial diesel engines If you have a 110/220 generator on board use that to power the block or other heater. That's better than running the DD all nite or even starting fluid. OR no start at all. I re-read your post you do have a DD! | ||
| Stan Rating: N/A |
For cold weather starting, put about a pint of diesel fuel in a large tin can with a small piece of rag. Set it on fire and slide it under the engine oil pan. When the fire goes out, start the engine. If it is real cold put similar cans under the transmission and differential. It is obvious that you have to keep the drive line clean or it will get hotter than necessary. | ||
| Richard Bowyer (Drivingmisslazy)
Rating: N/A |
If you have to run something all night, then run your genset! It can provide electric heat for the coach, keep a trickle charge on the batteries, run a block heater or plumb its coolant thru a heat exchanger or the bus radiator. That will keep your DD nice and toasty and you will not have trouble starting the DD. Running the genset at partial load will do little damage, if any, and it is a lot cheaper to re-do a genset than it is a DD. Richard | ||
| Geoff (Geoff)
Rating: N/A |
Given only the choice of either idling the engine all night or using starting fluid the next morning, I would say idling the engine all night is the lesser of two evils! --Geoff '82 RTS CA | ||
| mel 4104 Rating: N/A |
as all the answers have said stay away from the use of starting fluid. do not do as one fellow did last winter on his way south for the winter, he wanted to go into central Wa. and Or . to go to Salt lake on his was south and got into some cold weather and being in a hurray he gave the engine a drink of starting fluid and then another drink and when he hit the start button he got a loud bang and the smoke that came out of the engine was so bad he could not see the rear of the bus. 9hours later he was at a DD dealer and they told him the next day that he broke 2 pistons, rings on 3pistons and score 3 liners, his hauling and rebuild cost wasover $11,000, he now has a deisel gen set and no starting fluid. i would tell you his name but he would not like that. | ||
| Don/TX
Rating: N/A |
Well, starting fluid seems to have its detractors, but the 4905 operators manual says to use it when it gets into the 30's. They even put a little cup with a cap on it so you could do it easily with little plastic cartridges of it. My 3406 Cat equipped Kenworth, came with a starting device, a can of fluid was placed in a holder on the firewall operated from a switch in the cab. Like anything else, it does take some common sense when shooting it in there, in many years of using it, I never had a problem. I also NEVER shoot it unless the engine is turning over. | ||
| Richard Bowyer (Drivingmisslazy)
Rating: N/A |
As I have been told and as Don says, have someone else cranking the engine over when you give it a very short shot. It really does not take much. Richard | ||
| Gary Carter Rating: N/A |
In the past I use to leave MN about the 3rd week of January. The coldest temp I left in was 18 below zero in the morn and 14 below when I pulled out. In October I filled up for the winter with #2 fuel and added two bottles of anti-gel before starting the fill to get it mixed. I had a 2000 watt tank heater on our 4106 which was plugged in for 24 or more hours before leaving. The engine fired right up. Hit the road and went straight south. One winter I spend a very cold nite in souther Iowa and the temp went down to 16 below. Shut the engine off, fired up the genset, turned on the tank heater, furnaces, electric blanket etc. and crawled into bed. Next morning the engine fired right up. I have used starting fluid, but mostly as cleaning fluid. | ||
| John Feld (Deacon)
Rating: N/A |
Haveing spent 40 plus years owning detroits in semi's in northern illinois winters and paying the repair bills I can say honestly that I have used starting fluid without any noticable bad effects, why would a trucker risk his livelyhood if ether would put him out of business. Yes, there are horror stories out there, there is also alot of dumb people that never took the time to learn how to use it right. Try starting 16-17 trucks on monday morning when its 20 below zero and the wind blowing 20 MPH! A few short shots of starting fluid in the air cleaner started many a cold DD befor going inside to get warm again. Below is a couple of alternitives I have used. Start your engine every 4 hours through the night and let the motor warn-up good at high idle, use a sheet of cardboard in front of the radiator to help heat faster. Hire someone to stay up all night re-starting the trucks. Drain the oil pan into a bucket and store inside overnight, pour back in before starting in the morning and let sit for a half hour while you freeze your buns off. Install water heaters in the block and keep the motor warn all night, works the best and least cost. Use a pan of charcole to heat the oil pan after blocking the wind with carboard and hope there is no fire or cokeing of the oil. Call a service truck and he will jump your battries and use starting fluid to get you started, big bucks. Have it towed into a heated barn and wait for five or six hours while it warms up enough to start. Let idle all night above 1,100 RM at around 1 GPH and keep everything warm and heated. This was my choice below zero degrees. Many states have anti-dleing laws in effect now and the fine can be handsome in some. So many people have tried so many things over the years and I havn't trie them all but one thing I do know, unless the person giveing the advice hasn't spent his own bucks he don't have much to say, talk is cheap! My opinion only, John F. Ask a trucker what he does, lots of options, some better than others. | ||
| Brian Brown (Blue_velvet)
Rating: N/A |
There is no "real answer." You makes your choices and takes your lumps for 'em. Whether it "qualifies" or not, I'm with the "genset and block heater" crowd. Block heaters are very common, and easily installed on a DD. I have no clue why you think this is not a "creative" option, since it's the best one. A few hours (on up to overnight depending on temp.) running the genset with the block heater (a $50 investment on the ePlace), will start the DD w/o any undue stress. And starting a DD cold, no matter how you do it, is undue stress, IMHO. The block is cold, so the distance between the rings and the piston walls is too great. Also, the oil is like syrup and has very little lubrication properties, so all wear surfaces will take undue stress. Batts and all connections will take a huge amount of juice, too. So... Heat it up. Somehow... as creatively as you like, before you start it. If you're on shore power, this is a no brainer with a block heater. If on genset, running it burns maybe .5 GPH vs. the DD burning about a gallon... and idling is bad for the DD at any temp. Just because you can start it cold... doesn't mean you should. But... it's your $ and your engine... so, like FF says, "do it your way." My $0.02, bb | ||
| DMDave Rating: N/A |
The Mr Pipes method works usually for us and we also use a tiny shot of ether if its really cold out as per the Deacons method. At home we always have the block heater plugged in before a trip. Winter before last we had it plugged in in Central 'fla so as not to smoke out the neighbors in the morning. | ||
| JR
Rating: N/A |
Charcoal is the best idea and most "inspirational" answer. You can use it anywhere, takes a few minutes to get going, but it's portable, cheap, doesn't require an umbilicus, and requires minimal skills to utilize. And you can do it by yourself. Starter fluid assumes that the batts are going to spin the engine over at cranking speed. If it's too cold, the starter just won't get going. A can with a few hot brickets in it will warm the oil pan and the engine will start. If the can fits snugly under the pan, it will warm the oil quickly. Just let the charcoal burn the lighter fluid off before putting it under the pan. The charcoal will work in windy condition too. Be sure that the can will fit under the coach when the airbags are deflated....or at whatever height your coach will be when starting. Sorry, most would know to do that. While John F's idea of draining the oil is original, that would be sooo messy! At least the charcoal is warm to work with. Properly used, fire can solve a lot of problems. Not to distract from the point, but is someone going to be inside the coach during this layover? If so, run the generator and use a block heater and small charge rate on batts...this would be the easiest way to manage the situation...albeit not real colorful or any such thing. JR | ||
| John MC9 Rating: N/A |
Hmmmm... "-help me with my winter trip -Is it better to idle all night or to use starting fluid -Webastos and block heaters do no qualify as an answer" For a few random nights on the trip up/back, I'd fast-idle it. The fuel cost may cause you to find a better solution, but buses on ski trip charters were run from the time they left the barn until their return. (I can remember the boss yelling at a driver for shutting it down on a ski run and having to call for help to get it started). Hell, in the heat of the summer we'd run the bus engine and AC for the entire time also. Transit (line) drivers never shut the thing down at the end of a run. It'd sit on fast idle until the next run began. These are the same engines, so in my opinion, there's much ado about nuttin. Starting fluid is to be used with care. Thinking the engine's too cold and getting it in a hot cylinder can cause headaches (as in cracked sleeve/rings). If it's going to sit for 24 or more hours I'd try to find a better way of keeping the engine warm, or use starting fluid. But if that failed as much as once, and there's absolutely no other way, I'd let it idle. | ||
| John MC9 Rating: N/A |
HAR de HAR HAR: *"Use a pan of charcole to heat the oil pan after blocking the wind with carboard and hope there is no fire or cokeing of the oil. " *"Charcoal is the best idea and most "inspirational" answer" Inspirational, is right! Say some prayers that the fire is contained to your rig and doesn't spread. Liability and litigation's a beach. (Man..... youse guys!) | ||
| Tim Hoskinson (Tdh37514151)
Rating: N/A |
The use of starting fluid is recommended by every engine manufacture that I have ever read the manufactures own book on. None have ever stated in the book that if the engine fails to start keep introducing more and more fluid. I have personally used starting fluid for 18 years on antique diesel engines as well as newer engines and of many different makes with no adverse efects. I really don't believe that starting fluid should be labled a bad product do to its misuse. I have a 1958 Oliver crawler tractor that I use on the farm for all sorts of tasks. The engine in this tractor was the first venture into open chamber injection for hercules motor corp. These engines started hard in cool weather when new. I have started the tractor assisted by starting fluid for 18 years and have had no problems | ||
| joe padberg (Joemc7ab)
Rating: N/A |
A trick that I have used many a time on vehicles other than a Detroit, is to use a propane tiger torch fed from a 20 lb bottle shoved into a four foot lenght of residential 5 inch heating pipe with an elbow at the end to direct the hot air upward placed under the engine oilpan. sure works when it is 25 below. | ||
| captain ron (Captain_ron)
Rating: N/A |
i have a torpedo heater I carry with me (propane) it only takes a few minutes to get started . | ||
| t gojenola
Rating: N/A |
There is one additional alternative, although its price and installation may not justify the occational use. But it is one that's used commonly in the arctic, including Prudhoe Bay. It's a tank type heater similar to the electric ones, but incorportes a propane catalytic heating element and uses no power. Coolant circulates through it by gravity and percolation. Web site of one such: http://www.cp.duluth.mn.us/~hilton/ tg 4106-1888 | ||
| Geoff (Geoff)
Rating: N/A |
The people that are promoting ether by saying they have used it in engines OTHER than our Detroit 2-strokes should beware that other engines have lower compression ratios (with 300 psi instead of an 8V71's 500-550 psi). What happens with Detroit 2-strokes is that the top compression rings can easily break when using starting fluid. The only time starting fluid should be used is when the batteries are on their last spin and you are desperate, and I mean desperate! Another thing, people who have reduced their starting batteries thinking that they only need one 8-D or two Group 31's to start their engines don't have much starting power when the weather turns cold. Having those extra cold cranking amps sure helps in the winter. --Geoff '82 RTS AZ | ||
| Johnny Rating: N/A |
The TDH5300 (6V71N) at work specifically says to ether it in cold conditions. Having said that, I prefer to use liquid wrench as starting fluid. We've never had to, though. It has aways lit off without it. Batteries are a pair of 950CCA Interstate Group 31's. | ||
| Dale L. Waller (Happycampersrus)
Rating: N/A |
Who goes camping or bondocking in winter without 110v shore line, Genset, or webasto?? Just wondering, as I'm scratching my head to why not a $50 block heater? Trying to turn over a COLD mill is so hard on parts and starters. As Geoff makes a great point I have seen starting fluid in the wrong hands bend expensive Detroit rods and break the cold rings. Dale | ||
| Don/TX
Rating: N/A |
I cannot agree that if it is so darned hard on engines, why did GMC direct the use of it in the 2 stroke 8V71 engines when the temp was as low as 30's, AND make a specific provision for it on their engines? I don't believe they did that just to sell lots of engines and engine parts, they would have been broke from lawsuits by now. I am only 68 now, have been using it all my life, NEVER did any damage. Maybe I am too old to find out how to abuse it. Another starting aid is good old WD 40, dunno how good it works in cold, but does fine in the normal temps, and makes me feel lots better getting some lube in there with the fire. | ||
| Dale L. Waller (Happycampersrus)
Rating: N/A |
Yep, it is a approved starting aid, BUT in the WRONG hands it can cause alot of damage. The specific provisions for old DD's are for the gel cap (PRE MEASURED) to be used, NOT a spray bomb. GMC on there own done away with the manual type pressurized cylinder. The next time you get a chance to spray a charge of starting fluid in a 8v71 stand next to her when she lights off, you will hear a pinging sound right when it starts (sounds like 8 hammers hitting cast iron for a second). Then the noise goes away as diesel takes over. The caution in the book says overloading the engine air box with this high volatile fluid could result in a minor explosion. On my conversion I hard wired my block heater. All I do is flip a switch on the bulkhead. It works through my breaker box whether I am on shore line or genset. In 2 hours my engine starts on half a turn at 30 to 40 degrees. If in a remote setting a block heater with a small portable genset will do wonders, Most block heaters only pull 1500 watts. | ||
| DMDave Rating: N/A |
Hey Dale, many people travel north to south for the holidays and such, we do and no not yet do we have a gen set or have a place to hook up the shore power. Campgrounds North of the mason dixon are closed for the season. We sleep over at rest areas or truck stops with the propane heat going to heat the interior. Gen set is on the wish list . We have an emergency Honda Gen set we could run. | ||
| Phil Dumpster2 Rating: N/A |
Another starting aid that hasn't been mentioned is to hold a lit propane torch to the intake and crank the engine. The hot exhaust gasses from the torche do an amazingly good job of heating the internals of the engine to the point where the engine can fire. | ||
| John MC9 Rating: N/A |
TomNPat - "-help me with my winter trip -Is it better to idle all night or to use starting fluid -Webastos and block heaters do no qualify as an answer" So? What's the verdict? Didja' get your answer? | ||
| gusc Rating: N/A |
TomnPat, The 4104 Driver's book for the 4104 and 6-71 says to use starting ether and has a cup for the ether capsules. Obviously the capsules are no longer available so I use spray can ether and spray just a small amount into the cup. I've only used it down to the low thirties so can't vouch for the really cold country but it works every time for me. I would like a block heater or Webasto and will probably install one or the other eventually but right now ether from Walmart works fine for me. I think the solution is not to use too much ether. This is not a case of "a little bit is good so a lot must very good". | ||
| TomNPat
Rating: N/A |
Thanks to all for the various answers. Really, I didn't expect a definitive answer, I wanted a full discussion which we almost got. We don't have a bibliography of significant research results, do we, so it can't be complete. I wondered how people who drove trucks with no webasto/power pole/generator/etc. got along for so many years with detroit engines and how bus owners would cope with the same conditions. I guess the 'light some charcoal briquets under it' article I just read prompted the question. John: I guess setting the alarm clock for two hours later, catching some sleep, then running a couple hours, then sleeping another two, etc., would be the best if I didn't need two hours and a VO on the rocks to go to sleep! We used starting fluid in Kansas at 5 degrees when we brought the bus across the US 3 Decembers ago. Same in Gallup, NM when the river was frozen outside of town. Wonder why, when my 45 degree engine starts without starting fluid, it pings when the last cylinders decide to start like their started siblings. It did this in the yard at ABC in New Jersey when Aaron Thomas started it too! The short spin, rest, try to start, go to step one seems to work, but it sure embarasses me with the smoke screen it creates. Think I'll start a thread on what I should replace my 6v92 with to prevent this from being a problem. Thanks for all your advice. Are Glow Plugs the answer? TomNPat | ||
| Geoff (Geoff)
Rating: N/A |
I have started my 6V92TA while camped in 3" of snow (see my profile pic), and it started right up after a couple of spins without any pre-heating. Of course, when starting cold I get the usual cloud of white smoke until all the clyinders are firing-- this is normal. If your engine smokes for several minutes instead of several seconds you have a problem. P.S. I also have a Webasto that I try to use in cold weather, but sometimes it is not working (beware of air locks in the Webasto heater lines!) --Geoff '82 RTS AZ (Prescott--37F this morning @ 5200 ft. elevation) | ||
| John MC9 Rating: N/A |
"Thanks for all your advice. Are Glow Plugs the answer? " Where'ya gonna' put 'em? DD didn't design a head that takes 'em, did they? Running the engine continuously 24 per day during a trip is fairly common. We did that on charters; my pal does that with any tractor-trailer he's using x-country, it's really no biggie 'cept for fuel... And using ether (or?) ain't bad either, if you're careful and don't go nuts with the stuff. "The short spin, rest, try to start, go to step one seems to work, but it sure embarasses me with the smoke screen it creates. Think I'll start a thread on what I should replace my 6v92 with to prevent this from being a problem. " I don't mean to be insulting, although it usually comes out that way...... but anyone that's ever been near any diesel in the winter, knows well what happens upon initial startup: SMOKE & NOISE There's no surprise there; it's a diesel, it's cold, smoke happens. To spend the hoards of hard-earned cash, that can be better used for trips and other family enjoyment, to change out an engine for the sake of a few minutes of startup smoke... is....well... I guess whatever works for ya'? But really.... U serious? | ||
| R.C.Bishop
Rating: N/A |
Just remember...as stated somewhere above...CRUCIAL to have the starter turning when ether is injected....and a VERY VERY short burst! One shot should be enuf. Lotsa white smoke for a while, too. Much discussion on the subject in the Archives. FWIW....  RCB '64 Crown Supercoach (HWC) | ||
| Don/TX
Rating: N/A |
OK, got that solved, now can we move on to how to seat a tubeless tire on its rim with starting fluid? Works wonderfully, in case your adventurous spirit has not been bold enough to try it. You just hook the air chuck to the valve stem letting it blow, squirt some starting fluid into the tire, and toss a lighted match in that direction. Poof! You get it seated on the rim and inflated! (It don't take too much, I suppose if you are too free with the starting fluid, you would have to find another tire for the second try) | ||
| Johnny Rating: N/A |
Anyone who seats a tire bead with ether should be arrested. My former boss was nearly killed by that (he wasn't the one doing it). | ||
| Richard Bowyer (Drivingmisslazy)
Rating: N/A |
We used to do this in the desert for the big paddle tires we used on dune buggies/sand rails. When you are many miles back in the sand dunes and you knock a bead loose (only run about 5 psi), then the ONLY way to re-seat it is a whiff of starting fluid and a tossed match. Just be very very careful. Even a few drops of gasoline and then dribble a trail of gas away for 20 feet or so and light it will do the trick. Richard | ||
| gusc Rating: N/A |
The 4104 Driver's Manual specifically says to induce the ether into the cup before using the starter so I do it that way with no problems. I tried starting it one time in an RV park in WY without ether. Took me three trys and I managed to lay a smokescreen that obscured the whole park. Luckily there were few people there because it was pretty cold. I never tried that again! I also tried spray carb cleaner which works great on gasoline engines, but it didn't fire a lick on the 6-71. | ||
| gusc Rating: N/A |
Forgot to mention-- I get very little smoke, sometimes none, when using starting fluid. | ||
| Tom Caffrey (Pvcces)
Rating: N/A |
Now that you guys have worked over this subject pretty well, consider this. When you start your engine and it's cold enough to cause misfiring, most of the injected fuel is already in the cylinder and being vaporized before it ignites. Firing it this way creates a kind of "hang fire" condition which is really hard on the hardware. A small amount of ether that causes ignition before most of the fuel is in the cylinder avoids the "hang fire" condition and really cuts down on the banging and knocking. It seems to me that getting the cylinders firing early is better than letting them knock for a while, so SOME ether probably is easier on a cold engine than none at all. I've seen and heard an old Mercedes engine that was worn out to the point that it didn't develope enough heat to fire early during injection, even when warm, and it made a real loud droning noise all the time. If you get a diesel good and hot by working it, it will run a lot quieter because ignition occurs right at the start of injection. For what it's worth. Tom Caffrey PD4106-2576 Suncatcher Ketchikan, Alaska | ||
| R.J.(Bob) Evans (Bobofthenorth)
Rating: N/A |
This has been beat to death but I'll throw in my 2 cents worth anyway. You don't know from cold until you have started a DD in Saskatchewan in the winter. I pulled the bus into the shop tonight because it is supposed to snow. It could easily be -40 when we start it to head south. To start it in those conditions I will: - plug in the battery blankets that are permanently wrapped around the 2 8D batteries - plug in the block heater - fire the Aqua Hot for at least half a day - put the charger on the 8Ds for a couple of days to make sure they are right up - I will NOT use ether My experience with ether is that it is like cocaine - engines get addicted to it. Once you get enough broken rings your engine will still run but it won't start without ether. YMMV | ||
| FAST FRED Rating: N/A |
The fear of ether is really overblown. YES it WILL KILL an engine if used on a warm engine that ran out of fuel , and the ether is use as a starting device, instead of properly priming the filters. However when in zero temps its a fine alternate fuel , in very limited doses. Da folks that built the DD made provisions for ether for every day use , by folks that know HOW it is used. In TINY amounts, a squirt that would be a small capsule into the cap, with the walk foward to the drivers seat seems to be just fine. The bigest question is when, temperature wise. I have found below +20F its better to give a squirt than crank multiple times , even with 400lbs of fresh batts cranking. Best of course is the block heater , electric or the Hilton propane . FAST FRED | ||
| Johnny Rating: N/A |
Richard: There's this thing called an "air compressor"--it's really a wonderful invention! | ||
| Richard Bowyer (Drivingmisslazy)
Rating: N/A |
Johnny, Apparently you have never been sand duneing. When you are out in the wilderness among tens of thousands of acres of sand dunes an air compressor is out of the question except for the small 12 volt units we carried in the sand rail. They are not even close to being able to re-seat one of the big paddle tires we used. Only useful for re-airing the tire after it is re-seated. Generally you are many miles from the motor home and many times its at 12 dark 30 when you pop a bead and unfortunately some times you are by yourself. Even if you were at camp, a compressor large enough to re-seat a big tire is not available. It is also impossible to run flat on a paddle tire. And before some smart a$$ says that you should not be out in the sand dunes by yourself, I know that. I also know that when it is dark and you are out dunning with a bunch of guys and you blow a tire it is sometimes almost impossible to find someone down in the bottom of a witches eye at night. Many people have had to wait with their buggy until daylight to get help to get out. And you can not really walk out. Too many big dunes, too far out and generally impossible to know which way home is. BTDT Richard | ||
| Dan West (Utahclaimjumper)
Rating: N/A |
Richard, use starting eather and a match to reseat a beed, works just great.>>>Dan | ||
| Johnny Rating: N/A |
That's why every truck I have ever owned has had onboard air capable of reseating a tire. It has never cost more than a couple hundred dollars. I hope your ether idiocy doesn't kill asnyone. Of course, there's also this wonderful thing called a "spare tire". It beats having to live with someone's death. | ||
| Don/TX
Rating: N/A |
Johnny, if you ever try to reseat a truck tubeless tire on the road with your onboard air, the compressed air just oozes out the cracks, you HAVE to have some quick, high volume to seat the bead. Tire shops have other means of seating them of course, car tires you can tie a rope around etc. I have lead a sheltered life I guess, I never heard of anyone getting killed or injured doing it, just a little fear factor when you do it the first time - and find out it works so darned well. | ||
| Dale L. Waller (Happycampersrus)
Rating: N/A |
Johnny, I work on heavy equipment for a living for Turman Sawmill. I would like to see a compressor that will seat a bead on a 17.5 X 25 skidder tire. The old timers I work with spray them with ether and pour a fuse of gas or diesel. It works great way out in a log cut in the middle of nowhere. I would bet that you haven't seen very many skidders or log loaders carry a spare. LOL | ||
| Don/TX
Rating: N/A |
We may have won a prize by getting this far off the original topic, from starting to changing tires. | ||
| niles steckbauer (Niles500)
Rating: N/A |
Ohhh ... I thought it was 101 useful ways to use ether ... #36: potato cannon ... | ||
| gusc Rating: N/A |
FF, The 4104 Driver's Manual specifically says to start the engine from the engine bay when using ether. Makes sense to me because it might all evaporate by the time you make the long walk. | ||
| John MC9 Rating: N/A |
*squirt* VAROOOOOOM Whoops... left the damned thing in gear... | ||
| Don/TX
Rating: N/A |
I never tried it myself, but I have seen bus guys squirt it in the intake on the side of the bus (GMC types), then casually walk to the front and start it right up. I always had thought it would all evaporate by that time too, but it don't. | ||
| Tom Caffrey (Pvcces)
Rating: N/A |
I like your way of putting in the ether, Don. It seems to work just fine. For what it's worth. Tom Caffrey PD4106-2576 Suncatcher Ketchikan, Alaska | ||
| Stephen Fessenden (Sffess)
Rating: N/A |
I favor always preheating the engine. I run 50 Wt oil in my 8V71TA year round. the only problem is cold starting. Within five minutes, the engine is at operating temperature anyway. So I use the generator and and engine block heater. You can tell when the engine is ready, because you stick your head in the engine compartment and it is warm in there. I have an espar heater, like a webasto, also. It does not work any better than the elecric preheater. So I turn on the generator water heater for showers and engine preheater about two hours before I want to start the engine. I always found that my John Deere started better if I sprayed the starter fluid, waited about 20 seconds and then started the engine. Otherwise I could hear one or two cylinders making a clacking sound at the start up. | ||
| jimmci9 #2 Rating: N/A |
you've all missed the obvious.... TUNE-UP!!!!!!.... if your engine is tired, worn out... you need a tune up.... put new injectors in, set them properly, and adjust the valves...if the engine is in less than optimum condition, its gonna need help...stating fluid, outside heat source... whatever you choose.. white smoke is a dead giveaway that the engine has problems... FIX IT!!!! | ||
| Richard Bowyer (Drivingmisslazy)
Rating: N/A |
Hey Johnny, have you ever tried to re-seat a tire out in the boonies? Richard | ||
| Johnny Rating: N/A |
Yes, several times. I love onboard air. If it's not cooperating, I wrap a rachet strap around the tread and pull it tight. My boss still has scars and permenent hearing loss from someone's ether stunt...he's lucky he's alive. | ||
| Richard Bowyer (Drivingmisslazy)
Rating: N/A |
There is no doubt in my mind that it is extremely dangerous and anyone trying this should use all precautions necessary to try and protect themselves. Please understand that it is kinda hard to have on board air when 20 miles out in the sand dunes and we always used the ratchet strap to get close but many times never had enough air available from a 12 volt compressor to finish seating. Richard | ||
| Johnny Rating: N/A |
Who said anything about a 12V compressor? While some can seat a tire (ARB & Currie come to mind), an engine-driven compressor is much better. My boss isn't the one who seated the tire. He is the one who was dismounting it a few days later...the bead-breaker must have sparked on the rim, because the tire turned into a fuel-air explosive, blasting him across the shop & nearly blasting his eardrums out. Had it been a steel-belted tire, he'd probably be dead. | ||
| t gojenola
Rating: N/A |
Saw this done in a National Geograhic special a few years ago about an around the world expedition in MB AWD vehicles. In outer Mongolia they had to reseat some big tundra tires on their rims - they used propane and it worked well. Seems this would be much safer than Ether in every way. Alaska moose and caribou hunters occasionally do the same with tires on their home-built tundra buggies. These conditions require running with the lowest possible air pressure and in cold weather the tires are prone to break the seal at the bead. tg tg | ||
| Jim Stewart (H3jim)
Rating: N/A |
Johnny, Its done all the time on vehicles in the dunes, it really is the best way. But like anything else, it calls for moderation. Just a really short spray is all it takes. If you load the thing up, so not all the ether can burn, well, yes its going to still be in the tire, and cause an unsuspecting person to be mighty surprised. Done correctly, it is a very effective tool, and a lifesaver in the desert, when almost nothing else will get you home. Richard, come out to the sand for Thanksgiving! | ||
| Richard Bowyer (Drivingmisslazy)
Rating: N/A |
I have heard of people injured or killed while mounting or dismounting tires. Especially the older split rim wheels. Explosions were not uncommon and that was why the steel tire cage was developed. It is kinda hard to imagine that some one used a shot of ether or some other kind of fluid to seat a tire and then later when dismounting it there was still some unburned liquid/fumes in the tire and it exploded a second time. But accidents do happen every day. Again my previous caution, be very careful and stay away 20 feet or so before lighting the trail of gasoline. Richard PS Sure would like to come to the dunes, but WV is just too far away and I sold my 150 hp VW powered sand rail years ago. LOL | ||
| Geoff (Geoff)
Rating: N/A |
I have used ether to seat uncooperating tires several times, but I know of a tire shop in my former town where someone was killed using ether to seat narrow tires on wide rims (low rider style). So be carefull if you try this trick. --Geoff '82 RTS AZ | ||
| John MC9 Rating: N/A |
Anyone remember that story about an anesthesiologist that was killed by a flying rib fragment back in the 80s, when a patient exploded after he carelessly lit a cigarette during an operation? |