| Author |
Message |
Peg
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, November 11, 2005 - 6:39 pm: | |
Oy Vey! After a fairly decent start, I am guessing, my husband called to say he was going up a hill and couldn't get the bus to go over 2mph! Tom at Vehicle Clinic had given the bus some fuel additive, but we are guessing (?) the fuel filter is dirty, as we knew the fuel tank is most likely cruddy. I talked to Tom, as well as called Luke at U.S. Coach, and now all I need to do (hopefully) is find these filters. Does anyone know where we can get these, preferrably without heading back west? Anyplace in Cleveland? I picked up the Good Sam travel insurance days before this, so at least he's finally good for the tow if it comes down to it. The State police forced him off the highway, and said they could tow his vehicle for going dangerously slow. Now he's stuck at a Quik Trip off mile marker 100 of the Ohio parkway. Is there anything else besides a dirty fuel filter that could make this happen?
Should I just have him towed to someplace, and does anybody know who that somebody should be (Cleveland?) ::double sigh:: |
Don/TX
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, November 11, 2005 - 7:30 pm: | |
You will need to know if it has the old can filters or the changeover to new ones that just screw on first.
Either filter seems to be fairly available at any big truck supply place, or truck stop of some size. If it is the old can type, you can open it up and see if it is a clogged filter or not. |
Michael Malloy (Busnut06)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, November 11, 2005 - 7:32 pm: | |
Do you have any smoke at all? Is there no response to the throttle? Is the throttle linkage at the engine moving with the foot peddle? There should be filters available at most truck parts outlets. It is not difficult to do when you have the filters.
Michael |
Michael Malloy (Busnut06)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, November 11, 2005 - 7:35 pm: | |
I am wondering if the emergency stop got tripped or a linkage problem. Sounds like all you have is an idle engine speed.
Michael |
Tim Hoskinson (Tdh37514151)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, November 11, 2005 - 7:40 pm: | |
I get my filters at napa. Mine has been change to spin on but they can cross most any filter. Pull the old fiter and take it with you. |
Don/TX
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, November 11, 2005 - 7:46 pm: | |
I think it is just saying: "Got More Cash?" |
R TERRY
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, November 11, 2005 - 9:33 pm: | |
When I left Detroit in the Salvage Yard on Wheels in 2000, I got 10 miles out of town before I had the same problem. The 4104 had been sitting at the Vehicle Clinic for a year with repairs costing more than I had paid for the bus.
One item I specifically asked to have checked was the fuel filters. After years of non-use, I would have thought they'd check this as a matter of routine. I even wrote letters to Amos asking him to check the filters. THEY DIDN'T.
In Toledo, a trucker told me to go to the Freightliner dealer, which I did (my bus would still go 20mph). Thirty minutes later, I was back on the road with two new filters, a couple of spares, and an engine that roared to life!
Best of luck!
R TERRY |
Larry & Lynne Dixon (Larry_d)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, November 11, 2005 - 10:23 pm: | |
I had a BlueBird DD 6/92TA, when it warmed up the armored fuel line would swell and pinch off the incoming fuel (after thru filter). Acted just a plugged filter, went thru over a dozen filters beforeby luck finding the 3 part rubber hose with center rubber like silly putty. I could run about 2 hrs then I would stop and change the filter and go for a couple of hrs. About 1500 or 2000 miles like this. Just one more thing to check (to check armored hose it has to be sawed in half. Good Luck larry 4905 |
gusc
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, November 11, 2005 - 11:10 pm: | |
If a bus has been sitting a while and is taken for a long drive even after you change the filters there is still a lot of crud that gets stirred up and clogs them again, mostly the primary since it is first in line.
My 4104 had only been sitting eleven months and I still had to clean the primary three times. |
Peg
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, November 11, 2005 - 11:55 pm: | |
I'm guessing it really took Tom by surprise that the filters seemed to be clogged. He said it was running well when they took it around for a test drive. I am happy to hear that it sounds suspiciously like crud. My husband is ready to buy lots of extra filters if they are clogged. But, alas, it was dark by the time he pulled over, so I will be ready in the A.M. to tell him what everyone has said. Luke said that these filters aren't usually carried by most truck stops (let alone a NAPA) but I figured I'd just pose the question- Baldwin filters, probably the cartridge kind, because Tom said they aren't the easy kind to change ,so Luke is guessing that means the cartridge kind- someone out there know for sure that these would be at a NAPA? I will google freightliner and the like, and I have the stock number for the filters, so hopefully this will be the last thing it takes to get the bus to Poughkeepsie. Thanks so much, I'm just keeping my toes, fingers, arms, and legs crossed over this. I hope it is not the armored fuel line, but it's good to have the next likely suspect sounding like not too big of a deal. I will also ask him to check if there is smoke, and to check the emergency brake. THANKS! |
John MC9
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, November 12, 2005 - 12:54 am: | |
"my husband called to say he was going up a hill and couldn't
get the bus to go over 2mph! "
OK, series of stupid questions:
Only up a hill? In what gear? Is it automatic? Did he try to
manually downshift it into a lower gear? Does it run OK on
the flats?
If it's a manual tranny, how'd he downshift (lack of fuel
would prevent revving it to get to top rpm for a downshift)?
If it's an automatic, did it downshift and was it in first gear
and only idling?
Or was it racing (with either an auto or manual) and only
going 2 mph? |
RJ Long (Rjlong)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, November 12, 2005 - 1:09 am: | |
John MC9 -
The transmission in this coach is a model VS2 V-Drive automatic. It has three positions on the shift lever: F-N-R. Two speeds forward with a lock-up torque converter. There are no provisions for the driver to manually control which forward gear the automatic is in, unless you play with the solenoids, which hasn't been done in this case.
FWIW,
RJ
PD4106-2784
Fresno CA |
John MC9
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, November 12, 2005 - 1:19 am: | |
Thanks RJ.
So the question should be:
Was it racing and only going 2 mph, or idling and going 2 mph? |
Brian Brown (Blue_velvet)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, November 12, 2005 - 4:28 am: | |
Peg, if these are the stock cartridge-type, they are indeed readily available at NAPA and elsewhere. The primary is a sock-type and the secondary is paper. You can change 'em both in about 10 minutes. A 3/4" wrench/ socket is all that's needed.
Be sure and prefill with clean fuel and use the included gasket that fits (making sure to dig out the old one).
NAPA Part numbers are #3552 and #3512. About $7/ each. Have him get a few sets!
Let's all send the guy some happy bus thoughts/ vibes, eh? Chanting now...
HTH,
Brian Brown
PD4106-1175
Longmont, CO USA |
Don/TX
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, November 12, 2005 - 8:53 am: | |
When I bought my bus, it has been sitting a long time, some in Hawaii, some in Washington state. I was sure I would have filter clogging on the way home, so I had a case of filters in the bay. It made the 1500 mile trip running like it was fresh and new and never clogged a filter once. When I went to change to spin on filters a year later I found out that there were NO filters in the cans! I guess someone solved that problem earlier the easy way! |
Frank Allen (Frank66)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, November 12, 2005 - 10:12 am: | |
Peg, sorry i could not help in mich, unable to reach cousin who most likely could have helped, he is out of town and i couldnt get in touch. your husband can get the filters about anywhere, i buy them in the local auto parts. i know he is frustrated but i have had a 06 for 19 yrs and never had anything but minor problems. Tell him to give us more info on the problem
Frank Allen
4106 2626 |
Peg
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, November 12, 2005 - 4:52 pm: | |
I am praying right now. He got the filters, and we owe much gratitude to a man named Bob at NAPA in Sandusky, who brought the filters to Aracelio after he got off work.
It turns out he did need the spin on filters after all, but he improvised and made the sock filters work for now, and the engine had power again. I guess this means problem diagnosed and temporarily solved, so hopefully he can get to a truck stop tonight and find bunches of the right filters tomorrow. He is still west of Cleveland.
I just want him to get off the side of the highway and be safe, near food (he ran out) and get up and running without more grief.
Good Sam's travel insurance people only wanted to tow my husband to an RV place. We didn't want that to happen. I called them after we cancelled the call to tow, and it turns out not only did the RV place not have the filters, but they said they couldn't touch a detroit diesel pusher engine. And Good Sam's people claimed they verified first that they could. Maybe someone wanted some tow money. The NAPA guy also wasn't really supposed to bring us the parts, and referred us to another truck shop who agreed to come out and help. Only problem there was as soon as the boss left, the mechanic refused to go out on the call. The secretary apologised to Bob at NAPA for us, and Bob finally decided he had to help us after he got off work. I am so happy that for every slacker and dishonest person out there, there is another person that works hard and enjoys doing the right thing. At least, I think there is, and I want to believe it. |
DMDave
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, November 12, 2005 - 5:00 pm: | |
Hey Peg , just remember everything you do comes back to you. There are lots of good folks out there. You will see your bus soon.Your husband will be fine. Tell him attitude is the difference between an Ordeal and an Adventure! |
Robert Wood (Bobwoodsocal)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, November 12, 2005 - 5:36 pm: | |
Sounds like an adventure to me! Some are more fun than others. Hang in there Peg, he will get home OK. And you will have a great story to tell... Bob |
Peg
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, November 12, 2005 - 8:51 pm: | |
Hurray!
He's made it to a TA, and when I asked him where he was, he said, "on the 80." Then I asked,"Yes, but are you past Cleveland?" "Yeah, I passed that a long time ago." Then I asked,"Are you in Ohio?" Then I hear him ask someone if he is in Ohio, and then I hear "Pennsylvania."
Of course, I realise it's just like him to go ahead and keep driving past dark because he can finally drive. When I asked how the bus was, he said it had too much power now. I asked what he meant, and he said if anything, the bus is so smooth that it's hard for him to not speed it up accidentally. I laughed out loud!
He also is probably finally thrilled, he sounded genuinely happy, and told me all about two different oldtime truckers, one who flashed him off the highway to tell him his rear lights weren't on (there are 2 seperate light switches?) and the trucker showed him where the lightswitch was. Then at the TA another driver said he used to drive the same exact bus, that it was a great bus, asked to look at the engine and eveything- I know how good that feels because I used to own a 1960 Avion 19 ft trailer (looks like an airstream, cute retro silver bullet on 1 axle) and while I had it, not only did I get LOTS of attention, I also had 2 cash offers!
Everyone here is so great for helping us out, I am so excited that he is excited in stead of frustrated, and he should be able to get to Poughkeepsie by tomorrow night! Thank you everyone! |
FAST FRED
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, November 13, 2005 - 5:46 am: | |
"When I asked how the bus was, he said it had too much power now. I asked what he meant, and he said if anything, the bus is so smooth that it's hard for him to not speed it up accidentally."
Thats why their called,
"The Sports Car of Coaches!"
Enjoy!!!
FAST FRED |
Don/TX
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, November 13, 2005 - 8:48 am: | |
I think he was speaking of the effects of the VS2 Allison Fred. Maybe that is what yours needs too, reckon? |
Brian Brown (Blue_velvet)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, November 13, 2005 - 10:26 am: | |
Looks like the happy bus thoughts/ vibes worked!
Peg, now that you guys have been through some tough stuff with the old bus, how about enjoying her for awhile?
bb |
Dale L. Waller (Happycampersrus)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, November 13, 2005 - 10:57 am: | |
Peg,
I agree with Brian. That's the kind of experience that turns (It's just an old bus) into a big part of the family. It's not just a machine anymore. It now has character.
Don't believe I would swap mine for a new one!
Dale |
Peg
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, November 14, 2005 - 12:07 am: | |
Whether it's the Vs2 (which I was told by J.D. at C&J bus repair in MN is a worthless transmission, yet told by Loren in CA and Luke in NJ is just fine, and found even more controversy about this tranny in the saved Board posts here) or whether it's the roaring detroit diesel, the bus made it to Poughkeepsie in record time. My husband said the filters are clogged again because he had a hard time getting into NY (that's the only bad climb, right by Wilkes- Barre PA) and he had to pull over because a little car cut him off and he lost all his power when he had to decellerate to prevent an accident while climbing the mountain. Still, once he got past that, it ran with no lack of power to Po'k, and he didn't want to waste time trying to rig another sock filter on the spin on frame. I am so proud that he's the type to make the wrong filter work anyways! Anyhow, the bus is safely parked at my parents' property, and will await the next adventure while we look forward to our eventual leaving of MN and moving east. I am anxious to see our investment, and although I know it needs some things to make it a home (flooring, paneling) it has so many of the essentials already installed that I am hoping it will be worth all the tears I shed over our plight since we bought it in July. I owe thanks not only to the advice offered here, but to Luke at U.S. Coach, who is now so close I expect he'll see it eventually, if only to help us validate what is right and ok with our rolling house. Just a few days ago, when Aracelio was stuck, I called him, and he immediately offered the stock numbers of both kinds of fuel filters the bus might have taken, which most certainly helped us get those parts to Aracelio. Wow- I never would have guessed that it was something a NAPA would have! I am still torn in my conclusion about the "proper fluid" to put in the VS2-8, as Loren literally lectured me, a complete novice, for almost 10 minutes about how hard he fought Allison to issue a release stating motor oil made an acceptable lubricant, as Dextron just wasn't thick enough to keep it from burning out the Planetary. Luke claims he's never seen that happen, and said it shouldn't be a problem, providing the Dextron is clean and full. Luke definitely seems knowledgeable, so I remain perplexed primarily because of the conviction with which Loren preached about this.
I was told by J.D. to junk the bus. I was told by Kevin at Wolverine freightliner to sue the seller, which would have cost at least as much as we spent getting the bus towed repeatedly, and getting the Nimco takeout VS2 to Vehicle Clinic, and having Tom install that, plus fix the brakes, leaking fuel line, broken windshield wipers, and going to Belle Tires to replace all 4 rear tires.
Again, thanks to Luke for offering me lots of hope, his insistence that giving up is not the answer validated what I felt was true even though some were telling us otherwise. Tom at Vehicle Clinic must also be thanked for his willingness to search for a transmission, and his final acceptance of the Nimco part. He also thought giving up the bus seemed like a waste. It's terrible to think about throwing away $14,000, even if people are telling you it's a lost cause.
I am very sad that the seller screwed us so thoroughly without remorse, but I believe he will not prosper with the money he took from us. I have that much faith, especially now! THANKS for reading, writing, and sharing the frustation and joy! |
Brian Brown (Blue_velvet)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, November 14, 2005 - 1:08 am: | |
Yippie, you got her home! Awesome.
Peg, the VS2-8 is a fine tranny. It's maybe not an ideal one for a highway bus, but many will swear by it. I used CF-2 30wt. in mine (in a former bus) and so have lots of other Busnuts and transit agencies. I've also heard it to be a superior fluid to ATF. 40wt. (the stuff for the DD) isn't rated as a C-4 tranny fluid, but can be used in a pinch.
And the '06 is a great coach. I have one and I love it. To sell yours for a loss would indeed be a shame.
If it were me, I'd let her sit while you work through the frustrations and anger... and then look afresh at it with new eyes. Letting Luke look her over is a great idea indeed. Nobody knows busses the way he does.
Hang in there, and glad you guys got her back,
Brian Brown
PD4106-1175
Longmont, CO |
Robert Wood (Bobwoodsocal)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, November 14, 2005 - 1:37 am: | |
Yeah, Peg, keep her, she is rolling well now and all. The 4106 is a fine coach, they don't make them like that anymore. And she broke you in, so to speak, you have learned valuable lessons already... (always carry spare filters, belts, etc, among others).
Also, Brian gave you good advice, take her to Luke and have it checked out thoroughly. Should give many years of good service with decent maintenence! Enjoy, and congrats on getting her home!!! Bob |
Don/TX
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, November 14, 2005 - 7:40 am: | |
I used Dextron in my VS2, as Allison said to, and never had a problem. The confusion over motor oil or tranny fluid comes up mostly because the later V730 had lots of problems, and some were solved by putting motor oil in it, approved by Allison, and people immediately assumed that ALL Allisons should have motor oil. Allison never has approved the use of motor oil in the VS2, I prefer to use what the manufacturer recommends. Back in those days there was a reason presented for no motor oil in the VS2, it seems to me there were problems with some part that did not get proper lube with the thicker motor oil. Some old timer help me out here. |
Dale L. Waller (Happycampersrus)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, November 14, 2005 - 7:36 pm: | |
Peg,
Now that you have learned a few things about this hobby I hope you don't listen to all the nay say'ers. Alot of the time the mechanics hate seeing something they have to work on, so they are going to grumble and gripe. They will say junk it or sue the seller, but they don't own it. It's not their money. It's yours, so if you want the bus don't worry about them.
The VS2-8 trans is a good one. It will take the same amount of abuse that any of them will.
Just keep the proper amount of Dexron and you should be fine.
I think the problems of planetary failures resulted from low fluid levels. The VS2 seen more abuse in a transit bus than you will ever give it.
I would think you could use 30wt. oil or ATF without a problem, so I wouldn't get too excited about the issue. Alot of folks used 30wt. with no problems. What does Luke recommend?? and then go from there.
Dale |
Peg
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, November 15, 2005 - 12:28 am: | |
Luke said he never used oil, and he hadn't heard about what Loren said about the planetarys' failing. I know Loren did seem to be talking about transit buses. Luke was actually able to tell me just from the VIN # what the bus did in a past life- Queen City Trailways was it's first incarnation. I'm sure the bus got a lot of use.
I am still not sure I really understand what happened to the dead one, as I don't really know what a drive coupler is, other than what it sounds like- a gear thingie. I found out that we have the dead core strapped down in the underbelly of the bus; apparently Tom at V.C. said he couldn't get rid of it, that we had to take it. I think I might have mentioned, he claims the Nimco part out replacement was missing a few things that he had to pull off the old one to complete.
I am so blessed that he knew all about this tranny, as we were going to tow it to Luke if no other solution appeared. It would have cost a LOT to do that. My sister said today that the bus is probably stuck there in my parents' back yard until spring, as where it's parked will be hell to get out of once the snow comes, and it's coming soon. I asked her if she saw the bus, and she said "it's friggin' HUGE!" and I thought, but our old schoolbus was 5 feet longer....Then Aracelio interjected from the background (over the phone) that it's so much taller than the schoolbus, that it's like climbing into a building! HA! |
Michael Malloy (Busnut06)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, November 15, 2005 - 10:37 pm: | |
Peg,
Have fun with your 06, chalk up all this to learning. In time you will be able to laugh at it all. The 06 is a tough old coach and ours served us well. The memories our kids have in ours are priceless.
Godspeed,
Michael |
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