| Author |
Message |
Jim Shepherd (Rv_safetyman)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, November 14, 2005 - 11:36 pm: | |
A few of you have been nice enough to ask about my progress on my Series 60 engine/10 speed AutoShift conversion. You folks really need to get a life (grin).
If you followed the last status thread, we left off that I was waiting for an air compressor to come in last Friday and then I could start driving the bus this week. I also said you could bet the house that it would be snowing by the time I got the bus running. Well, as I write this (Monday evening), I70 is closed west of Denver!
However, I got two laps in around the neighborhood before the snow hit. I wanted to wait until today, as not many folks are home during the week and the bus is a quite noisy, since it still has an un-baffled 6 inch exhaust. Since the weather was moving in, I got up the courage to make a loop yesterday and risk getting run out of town.
The first part of the loop is a pretty good climb on a twisty road. The transmission shifted flawlessly going from 2nd thru 7th with no problem. That also means that the transmission made the range shift and all was well. On the down part of the loop, the Jake brakes did not work. The last part of the loop is another steep climb and the transmission would not shift out of 2nd (kind of a numb feeling between the legs). I spent the rest of the afternoon trouble shooting. The transmission was not throwing any fault codes.
I finally remembered that the transmission needs the Jakes working so that it can slow the engine down for a shift. I figured out the clutch switch was not re-connected after the last replacement. That makes the engine ECM think the clutch is pushed in and the Jakes can’t be activated.
With that fixed, I made another loop today with no transmission shift problems. I think I am really going to like the function of the transmission. I did not push it very hard today (exhaust noise), but it accelerated quite nicely. I left it in “drive”, so the transmission went through each gear. Kind of fun listening to it shift rather quickly to each gear.
Unfortunately, I have a pretty significant clunking sound that seems to be at the frequency of a wheel. I jacked up each front wheel and each bogey. I can’t see or feel any problem. I ground down the two welded studs on the front drum that send a signal to the speedometer. I hope that did the job.
By the time I was going to make another loop, the snow moved in and I was done for the day. Tomorrow will be bad weather and I have to make a quick business trip Wed. and Thur. Hopefully, the weather will let me do some more testing Friday.
Our window to decide on taking the bus to Bussin 2006 is closing in on us. We have alternatives to get there, but we really want to take the bus.
I will update again as the testing progresses.
Jim Shepherd
Evergreen, CO
’85 Eagle 10
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William J Kluge, Jr. (Flx_a_bill)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, November 15, 2005 - 9:02 am: | |
Hi,
I'm obtaining a 1956 Flxible VL100 which I plan to go through front to rear with a lot of upgrades like you have done on your Eagle.
I've read about the Eaton Autoshift, which requires some clutch input from the driver, and the ZF-AS tronic transmission that is similar without the clutch input. My bet is the ZF trans is a lot costlier and harder to find used.
Just wondered how hard was it to find the Eaton Autoshift and what to expect with respect to cost? Possibly, you have some sources or contacts...
Thanks. |
Jim Shepherd (Rv_safetyman)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, November 15, 2005 - 10:36 am: | |
Bill, both ZF and Eaton have clutchless systems. They are fairly new (last two years or so) and thus you won't see many in the wrecking yards. The Eaton unit is called the UltraShift. You can find out more about it at: www.roadranger.com and then follow the links to transmission and then to UltraShift. It almost looks like they substitute a centrifugal clutch for the standard clutch, but they, of course, make no mention of that option.
The AutoShift (and AutoSelect) were first used around 1999. I am told that every US Express truck has an automated transmission and the used truck magazines you find in the truck stops are really showing more popularity. With the AutoShift there are two generations of electronics. Most wrecking yards will have generation 1 and that seems to work just fine. My local Eaton rep did not seem to think that Generation 1 would present issues. They make several sizes from 1000 ft lbs to 1600 ft lbs torque capacity. They also make two different gear ratio options. Mine is a 1600 ft lb unit with the “C” ratio. The “ C” ratio is ideal for a bus in my opinion. While both have a .73/.74 overdrive, the “C” has a deeper low gear and the splits are a little greater than the “B” option. We don’t need the deeper low gear (indeed, we will normally start in second or third), but it will be better when creeping in slow traffic.
Our local wrecking yard had three units when I bought mine. However, the head of the parts department had no idea what they were and I lucked out when I met the owner and he knew what I was asking for. When I bought mine, they did not command a premium price. That is probably still the case. My guess is the you can get one for around $2-3K. The mechanical transmission itself is very robust (been around for 20 years or more) and the electronics also seem to be reliable. Not many folks are crazy enough to do conversions in a truck (or bus for that matter)and thus the price will probably stay pretty flat. If you go to a wrecking yard, you need to ask to see the transmission inventory and look for the very prominent ECM on the side of the transmission. You will need to do your homework to sort out what the transmission actually is. Most important is that you need be sure that you get the shift tower. I am told that they cost over $1K to buy from Eaton.
The clutch is not too big of a deal. Volvo trucks have used hydraulic clutches for years and that makes the installation easier. However, there are a lot of tricks to the installation. Having a clutch is a compromise when you have “old” knees. I still have my air seat and if I raise it up, the pressure on the knee is much less. Remember you only use the clutch to start and stop. It could be a bear in stop and go traffic. My philosophy is that I will park the bus if I get caught at “rush” hour and fix a meal or take a rest.
I have been walking a friend through the same conversion and it really hits home how many things need to be addressed during the conversion. I have been studying this for at least two years and I still have run into issues that threw me a curve. Do not get me wrong, the conversion is not rocket science, but a person really needs to know a lot of details BEFORE they start the project. If you are at all considering the conversion, you MUST download the installation document (TRIG-0050) from the roadranger site. It is the BIBLE for the conversion.
I could take up all of Ian’s board space describing the conversion. Instead, I intend to document the conversion in great detail (including photos) on my bus project website in the next couple of months (after bus project stops taking all of my time!!!). In the mean time, feel free to ask questions.
Jim |
Gary Carter
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, November 15, 2005 - 11:17 am: | |
Just a side note. The eaton had a clutchless system back in the 90s. Really just a lock up torque converter that replaced the clutch. We know of one in a 97 or 98 Newell.
According to a truck driver friend who has 3 years experience with both the ZF and Meritor (fuller/eaton) the biggest problem is backin into a dock. No way to slip the clutch with the clutchless ones and ease in. Takes some real practice |
William J Kluge, Jr. (Flx_a_bill)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, November 15, 2005 - 2:31 pm: | |
Thanks...
That's great info to come back to the office to...
I had looked at the web sight.. just not UltraShift...
Now to reset my goals...
And reading your conversion acount on the web was great.. a copied it so I can sit down and enjoy going through it more leisurely...
(if you see a lot of mis-spelling, it's 'cause "I R an Engineer...")
Hope you did get too much snow... |
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