| Author |
Message |
dougtheboneifiedbusnut
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, November 21, 2005 - 6:09 pm: | |
Now that I have the propane heater working I'm on to the engine coolent heaters.My crown is already plumbed front to back to accept engine water for heat.I want to put a valve to issolate the front heater from the rear heater.This will give me the option of sending all the coolent to to the front system while I'm underway and then a half an hour out of my destination I can turn on the back "loop".Can anyone suggest a reliable electrically operated valve that will handle the harsh environment it will be in (12 volt). Also I need to put a pump in line to take some of the burden off of the engine water pump.Hopefully you guys can point me in the correct direction to buy the pump and shut off valve.Many thanks. |
David Hartley (Drdave)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, November 21, 2005 - 7:42 pm: | |
Find someone parting out a transit bus. Normally I would say get a pump and valve off an old RTS but those are all 24 volt.
Maybe from a 12 volt 1980 vintage Western Flyer Transit if you can find one. |
John MC9
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, November 21, 2005 - 11:21 pm: | |
I'm no engineer (I've only ridden in trains), but the extra pump
may cause more problems than cure 'em. If you start pulling
the water through the radiator too fast, it may not get cooled
sufficiently for the needs of the engine.
Each of our RVs had rear hot water (space) heaters and a hot
water tank heated by the engine's cooling system. The engine's
fairly light duty water pump was never challenged by the
37' of pipe running to the rear, and the 37' back to the front,
including both the space heater and hot water tank's jacket.
I doubt the bus system would even notice the additional pipe.
24v electric valves (if you can't find 'em), could be made from
a standard ball valve and a 24v solenoid to actuate the lever.
Hmm.... how about a cable to actuate the lever, and forget
the fancy electrics?
Anything's possible! |
R.C.Bishop
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, November 22, 2005 - 12:04 am: | |
John....thanx for the thought provoking comment about causing more problems than curing. I have been considering installing a second circ pump, but now I am wondering if you don't have something there.....
Otherwise, why wouldn't a manufacturer have done the same for heat for 50 passengers?
Thanx, again.
RCB |
John Jewett (Jayjay)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, November 22, 2005 - 12:15 am: | |
Try Surplus Center, 1 800-488-3407. They have a solenoid valve in 24 VDC (item #20-1406) Type AV-1, (Cat#278) and knowing them they probably have it in 12 VDC as well, or a similar item. Tell 'em JJ sent you. |
John MC9
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, November 22, 2005 - 12:26 am: | |
Ahhh HAH!
The Surplus Center
Thank you JJ. It's a keeper! |
Pat Bartlett (Muddog16)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, November 22, 2005 - 5:02 am: | |
The Surplus Center has a great catalogue! |
Richard Bowyer (Drivingmisslazy)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, November 22, 2005 - 9:48 am: | |
Are you REALLY sure you need to isolate the rear heater from the front? I strongly suspect that you will generate enough heat in the DD while driving to warm the whole bus unless you are in weather below 32 degrees. In that case you might be able to block off the radiator to provide more heat. At least that is what I did on my Eagle. I do not know where the radiator on the Crown is.
Richard |
Ed Jewett (Kristinsgrandpa)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, November 22, 2005 - 9:49 am: | |
RC and John, My coach did in fact have a booster pump on the bus heat to the front. I removed it when I removed the bus heat radiators.
I also believe I saw one on a 4905 once.
Ed Jewett |
John MC9
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, November 22, 2005 - 10:02 am: | |
Hah! Kinda' like a home (hot water heat) circulator pump!
Well, probably nothing wrong with using one, but is it needed?
For whatever it's worth... I saw a nice setup in a motorhome,
where the guy used one of those instant hot water heaters
(the kind that go under a sink), for extra heat at the windshield.
He piped it into the RV's heater/defroster system and ran the
generator to power it. He said it worked great at the power pole,
giving enough heat to offset the cold windshield. |
Richard Bowyer (Drivingmisslazy)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, November 22, 2005 - 10:45 am: | |
My Eagle also had a booster pump in the main water line from the rear to the front, but I never needed it and never turned it on. The water was from the Webasto and from the engine and kept the bus plenty warm without an auxiliary pump.
Richard |
t gojenola
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, November 22, 2005 - 3:59 pm: | |
The reason most of these coaches had an auxiliary circulating pump - which they sometimes called a "booster pump" was to assist in filling the system with coolant. Otherwise it would involve a series of running for a while, adding more fluid, repeat, etc.
Be that as it may, here's a thing or two to consider. Running a pump in the heater lines will not affect the amount of fluid delivered to the radiator, since they are on opposite sides of the thermostat. However, when the engine reaches operating temperature and the thermostats are fully open, the coolant travels the path of least resistance, which is to the radiator. You may then find the flow to your heating system to be inadequate, particuclarly if you have it divided into two or more parallel loops. This is why if you have an auxiliary coolant heater such as Webasto, its circulatng pump will preheat the engine, but no water flows to the radiator until enough heat is buit up to open the thermostats.
Richard:
I think you may find that your Webasto has a built-in or auxiliary pump. If not, you could never use it unless your main engine was running?
I have an Espar heater in my 4106 which includes a circulating pump. I have three parallel coolant loops in addition to the main engine itself: Domestic water heater (heat exchanger), baseboard loop, and front defroster/heater. I have the pump wired to be run independently when on the road, and without it the heat delivered to the defrosters is minimal at best, especially after the engine reaches operating temperature.
tg |
Richard Bowyer (Drivingmisslazy)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, November 22, 2005 - 6:23 pm: | |
tg, you are correct that the Webasto had a pump, but even without the Webasto on I seemed to get plenty of hot water up to the heaters. My only problem seemed to be getting the DD hot enough in cold weather. Had to keep a blanket in front of the radiator when the outside temperature dropped below the low 40's.
Richard |
dougtheboneifiedbusnut
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, November 22, 2005 - 6:56 pm: | |
Thanks Richard I hope your right that would save me a lot of work.I'll try the system without the pump and see how it works but I think I'll make it a 2 zone system with a valve and work it off a cable (great idea John!!)Wow you guys just saved me a bunch of money,my wife will be very happy. |
John MC9
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, November 22, 2005 - 7:45 pm: | |
tg -
re:
"However, when the engine reaches operating temperature
and the thermostats are fully open, the coolant travels the
path of least resistance, which is to the radiator."
That was the intent of my initial comment: Using an auxiliary pump....
If you start pulling the water through the radiator (or engine) too
fast, it may not get (heated or) cooled sufficiently for the needs
of the engine.
Radiator or not, the pump will be providing a change to
the original engineered design of the cooling system.
No additional pump was needed in the two RVs we had
that utilized a heating system driven by the engine's cooling system.
No biggie either way... I'd prefer to keep things as simple
and as least expensive as possible... Others enjoy the more
complex.. whatever works for ya' is dandy wid me! |
John MC9
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, November 22, 2005 - 7:51 pm: | |
Doug -
Not getting too complex, but youse can do away with a cable
by mounting the valve in a closet inside the bus, too. Just a couple
of 90s and yer there!
One thing I'd do (when I get there), is to mount a main water
valve inside the bus to turn off the entire supply loop. We had
a coolant hose burst in both RVs and it was one helluva mess.
In the Winnebago, the copper line feeding the rear radiator cracked.
In the Georgie-Boy, the hose feeding the hot water heater burst.
When your running 60-70 mph and you smell anti-freeze inside
your rig, you know real quick that youse gots problems. That
engine water pump does pump one hell of a bunch of water
real quick! Especially when under pressure of 200 degree
heat. And anti-freeze is a real pain to clean up... It'd be real
nice to be able to turn that loop off, at the dashboard.
Just more idle thoughts.... |
FAST FRED
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, November 23, 2005 - 5:43 am: | |
"I'll make it a 2 zone system with a valve and work it off a cable (great idea John!!)"
The orig 06 drivers heater valve is a neat push pull setup.
The brass replacement is only $12.00 or so.
They work well when used to controll a bypass loop in the heating circuit.
On our 06 we have a box heater installed to make up for the removal of the orig coach monster setup. The bride sets her own temp with the pushpull cable, I set mine with the drivers.
She gets the 3 speed fan controll too.
FAST FRED |