| Author | Message | ||
| Tom Dessert (Mci5er)
Rating: N/A |
Hi everyone, I'm looking for some words of wisdom from the board on "how you correctly perform a left or right hand turn in a bus." I just recently purchased a very nice MCI 5A and have test driven it for twenty or thirty miles mostly freeway. The experience was great, and very educational. I have driven several large vehicles and towed in the past but driving a bus with the front wheels behind you makes it alot harder to judge turns. I've read in different groups about taking a bus drivers course or just drive it to gain experience but neither of these things will happen before I have to pick-up the bus in two weeks. So I'm asking for some insight from this experienced board as to any tips that will help me get the alignment right for these slow speed turns. Thanks Tom | ||
| David Evans (Dmd)
Rating: N/A |
nice coach Tom, 35' bus with a v8?. Check the archives and good driving shifting tips in articles of interest on the main page. we have a 35' with out power steering and she handles nice and steers easy...if your rolling. good luck, practice makes perfect, and get your mirrors set! | ||
| Pete/RTS Daytona (Pete_rtsdaytona)
Rating: N/A |
Best bus driving advice I very got "when driving a bus - drive the back wheels" may sound strange - but in a car you typically "drive the front wheels" - which means you need to know where the front wheels are but a bus is different - you need to know where the back wheels are Just keeping that in mind - makes you drive over less curbs - makes you turn deeper into turns It's amazing and it work - just "know where you back wheels are and where there going" Pete RTS/Daytona "just another novice bus driver" | ||
| Tom Dessert (Mci5er)
Rating: N/A |
David, re-powered 6v92TA with Allison 654 ( 5 speed) auto, rear end rebuilt with 3.70:1 gearing. Also Ross power steering. The unit is a sweetheart and the previous owners put the money into drivability and overall upgrades of suspension. So my job will be to learn to treat her right. Thanks for the input Tom | ||
| John MC9 Rating: N/A |
Tom - This is a poor time of season to tell you to go find an empty parking lot and practice, practice, practice... but that's really the only way to learn how your own bus is going to handle the maneuvers you want to put it through. I set my mirrors to enable 1/4 of the side of the bus to be seen (in the normal seated position), with a view of the rear wheel lugs at the bottom corner. A spot view mirror is a handy addition. Your mirrors should give you, in one glance, the information you need to make your move. There are occasions you won't have time to take more than one glance before moving... Once you get the feel of the length, and the turning radius while navigating through an empty parking lot; in and out of parking spaces, and around the various "make believe" corners and obstacles, you can take to the streets feeling safer about doing so. Aside from paying for driving lessons prior to owning one, or having an experienced driver with you to explain things, only way to learn how to drive it, is to drive it. | ||
| Craig (Ceieio)
Rating: N/A |
Tom - don't over analyze it too much. If you have driven big rigs you will be OK. Just remember that you pivot off the back wheels and watch the right turns. If I think about where the front wheels are I choke. Just turn the nose to miss the big solid objects, watch the sides and those solid objects, leave lots of stopping distance, and don't forget a few cans of your favorite soda. Driving your new bus home is lots of fun. I would worry more about the snow forcasted for down your way! Which way are you coming with the bus? Craig - MC7 Oregon | ||
| Tom Dessert (Mci5er)
Rating: N/A |
Craig, Bandon to Rogue River.... 42s from Bandon to Roseburg catch 5 South over Sexton Summit to Rogue River. We had 3" of snow a couple of night ago. If the forecast isn't in my favor the bus can still warm and dry in Bandon until the conditions are right. Thanks Craig for the advice. | ||
| Linda 4104 FL Rating: N/A |
Swing wide, sweet chariot... if there's a car in the way ahead of you (trying to come out of where you are wanting to go in), wait patiently till they move ahead or figure out it would be good for all concerned if they back up a little. Best advice we got was "don't be in a hurry, and don't let impatient drivers behind you make you do something stupid." Also, the parking lot idea from John MC9 was good.... look for something like an industrial/business complex on a weekend when there will be few if any cars around. | ||
| R.C.Bishop
Rating: N/A |
RJ....time for you to step in here!....  He's the man! Good advice from all above. RCB | ||
| John MC9 Rating: N/A |
Tom - One other note.... If you're going to be driving in ice/snow and haven't had the pleasure of doing so in one of these... You may be a bit dismayed the first time you downshift (or de-accelerate while in a lower gear) while on ice or snow. The engine compression will cause the rears to damn near stop rotating on the slippery surface. If you should have it happen, depressing the clutch or tapping the accelerator may save your day. The first time driving a bus, and doing it in ice/snow? I do not envy you. Bring a change of undies. | ||
| Bill 340 Rating: N/A |
This will sound dumb to some of you BUT when you are making a right or left turn. pull straight forward till your Knees are in the center of the lane you wish to enter, the coach will follow, IF towing, pull forward till your shoulder is in the center, Guys this really works as a rule of thumb, Quoted directly from a driving instructor for coaches, once in a while if I think about it at a light , I will glance and see where I am at as I make the turn, Bill | ||
| Eagle 10 Rating: N/A |
I had the worst "thrill" of my 15 years and 165,000 mile bus driving last week with the first wet snow that we had the bus out in this year. We were towing the Jeep on the way home from Thanksgiving with the family and ran into some snow. At 30 mph on top of a big hill, it started sideways, I put it in neutral and it finally came out of it. We sat in the truck lane for two hours on the next hill waiting for the sand truck which never came. I plan to stay away from snow conditons whenever possible. We were happy to see home. | ||
| Sojourner (Jjimage)
Rating: N/A |
Amen to all posts of good advice. If all possible, ride with their (charter or Greyhound's driver) good experience driver to drive your bus on X-express way and around in suburban area for 30 minute or more. Than you take over to drive awhile getting pointers about any question you have as well long wheelbase steering. My first biggest fear to drive my bus was to make a right turn into narrow side street with two cars. I thank the Good Lord for this to make it happen. Long before making right turn, always make room to get your bus partly onto next lane left to get rear wheel away from curb about 5 feet or no room for a small car to sneak in. Don’t start turning until entrance door’s rear post line up to Side Street’s curb and look for motor cycle in right rear view mirror. They (cars waiting to get onto main road from side street) were waiting for me to go by on main road but instead my instructor said to turn right. Due to narrow street, bus’s path is onto the lane where the 2 cars are waiting in front of them. They know we (bus) are bigger so they one by one will back up until we cleared with a straight face. Remember don’t show anger or laughing or you will have problem. Another word they might not yield to complete your turn. Never mind their horns blowing behind you, that human who is not yet bus driver! Main thing to keep in mind is to allow twice as much time to-re-think if needed before making turn into for a turn-around as you did with average motorhome. Another word drive slower with eyes looking in right mirror for rear dual to clear & look onto front path of right hand turn. After 30 minute of driving to your journey, pull over to nearest shopping mall parking lot or large gas station. Walk around coach for safety check. Get back on road little longer for about 1 hour later and so on. Remember it going to be noisier than finish motor home and air bleed noise (automatic exhaust moisture) after every compressor pump up. Pete RTS/Daytona....good way to think. Linda 4104 FL...good point. Bill 340...good one to remember. Eagle 10...did you have nearly new tires with wet-weather tread? Thank you all good supporters & advice. FWIW Sojourn for Christ, Jerry | ||
| Buswarrior (Buswarrior)
Rating: N/A |
Hello Tom. Bill 340's advice is a good place to start. All the way around the corner, watch the convex mirror, paying close attention to the curb line and how it is wrapping around. Your goal is to learn how to anticipate that you are turning in too tight as the curb line starts heading under the bus, not wait until the tires climb over. Watch towards the bottom of the convex, alongside the bus, ahead of the tires. If the convex is not one of those 6" or better round ones, immediately get the hardware and put one on, both sides. The flat mirror on the curb side of the bus is only good for watching yourself have the accident, since the field of view is too narrow to act as an early warning system. Cars can too easily hide alongside the front half of the coach, out of the sight of the flat mirrors. A seasoned driver spends more time glancing in the convex mirrors than the flat. Again, all the way around the corner, and as Pete suggests, you watch the mirror until the rear wheels are all the way around, not until the front is most of the way. All manner of misadventure happens in what I call the last quarter of the turn. The guys who don't get it, look away too early, climb the curb part way around the corner and whack the hydro pole that is mounted around the corner. And stay off the fuel, until the rear is all the way around. Foot over the brake pedal. This is no time for stupid displays of manhood, unless you can afford the insurance increases and the costs of repair. Suck it up and idle all the way around the corner, relax, you will get there and who cares about the honking horns. You are learning. Having a spotter that you get along with onboard, someone who will only speak up if you fail to tell them all the stuff out there that you can see to hit, in a calm voice.... A spotter who tries to drive the bus verbally through you is of little help, they have to let you tell them you see all the stuff. Also, the rising tone of panic is no good, because the stress transfers to you. So, it takes time, and you have to go slowly enough to talk, and slowly enough to be able to stop, if you see a collision about to happen. For instance, some calm voice spotter questions: How far are we from the curb right now? Do you see that pole? Where's your foot? How far was the back of the bus from that parked car as we passed? Not: Look out! You're going to kill us! Are you stupid? How many times do I have to tell you the same things? I told you, you shouldn't have bought this bus! How are you going to know you are about to hit something? You've never seen a good corner in the mirror, and you've never seen a collision with a pole in your mirror.... It is ok to stop midcorner, get out and look at it and compare the views. Don't worry, the secret is that REAL MEN get out and look (GOAL) Fools and the experienced have less need for GOAL. How do you know the difference between a fool and the experienced? Very hard sometimes, as they may lurk inside the same body? Often, best that the spotter is NOT your spouse, because males have some funny ideas about how they behave under pressure, and marital bliss will be put in great danger if she is forced to help. You don't want to be forced into full timing in that bus right away, by yourself..... And you will continue to watch the mirrors, every time the bus moves sideways, everytime you pass a fixed object, whether an inch, a mile or 90 degrees, for the rest of your driving days. You check to see if it is clear, and then you watch yourself make the move. To do otherwise, you will eventually strike something you missed when you checked, or something changed, like the auto who tried to speed up your inside, after you looked, and you put the turn signal on to warn him to try it! Mirror habits are the key to smooth sides, and uneventful trips. happy coaching! buswarrior | ||
| R.J.(Bob) Evans (Bobofthenorth)
Rating: N/A |
If you have pulled 40 or 45' flats or vans then the bus will be similar to that experience. If you are in 2 lanes turning left I like to be in the RH lane. We drove in a lot of snow last winter coming into Flagstaff. Trucks were chaining up and I would have too if I had found the chains before we left home. I didn't find it the white knuckle experience that others have suggested so YMMV. My opinion - its a big heavy vehicle with the weight well located. With good grippers it will go through a lot if you keep the speed down. The setback front axle takes some getting used to but it is wonderful when you get onto it. Once that front starts coming sideways it is absolutely amazing how little room you actually need to make a turn. Of course, when you have a towed behind, it is sometimes amazing how you can misjudge exactly how much room you do need. Lots of mirrors, keep the window shades up directly behind you on both sides. At least you have an auto tranny, I had to round off the corners on my Road Ranger while I was learning how big I was. Enjoy your new toy. | ||
| xx Rating: N/A |
I keep the left flat mirror aimed down the highway to see what is behind me. The right flat mirror is aimed much lower, so I can see the white line next to the right rear tire. I have a 4” convex mirror on each side. Each convex is aimed so about half of the view is my bus, that way I have a good reference point. The left convex is aimed lower so I can keep track of anyone passing me. I like the square framed convex mirrors better if I can find them because the horizontal edge is a reference point. I am curious as to how others aim their mirrors. Jack In KC | ||
| David Hartley (Drdave)
Rating: N/A |
Older RTS buses used to have a white marker light above the center of the rear axle to remind the driver where the tire was located and for night use. I think the DOT objected and they were discontinued. However an alternative would be one of those small LED lights like the aftermarket has that could be mounted and aimed forward towards the mirrors to remind you where the tire is located. ( Left Turns ) My instructor always insisted that while driving an RTS to always line up the centerline of the street or road that you are going to turn into with your shoulders. On the RTS it turns so sharply and you are located about 3 feet forward on the wheel center. Approach the turn line up. Sweep into the turn placing the front bumper right over the edge of the curb then follow the curb and let it come to you. This is done while watching your left mirror for the rear wheels approaching the centerline (or car sitting there!) while glancing back and forth between the right front corner and the left rear tire track location. Then ease out into a straight line along the right side of the road. Right Turn... Everything basically done for the left turn applies ( Mirror usage! ) to a right turn. However the problem that you may encounter is a narrow lane that you want to turn into. You must allow for a left drift to place some space between you and the side of the road or curb on the right. The norm is about 1/2 of a lane or more depending upon the wheelbase of your coach and turning ability. This creates that sneaky-stupid situation and you have to make sure the path stays clear to your right no matter what. As was said earlier the key postion to visually align on changes from your shoulder to just forward of your knees or pedal position. A right turn takes a lot more practice than a left turn. Now your attention must be spread into three places at about the same time. Look left to clear the lane to set the turn up, drift towards the left. Set you sights on the intersection, note obstructions, vehicles, curbs, People standing, dogs, critters and speeding bicycles. You want to watch both sides of the lane that you want to turn into. The space between you and the right side of the road for sneakers-creepers and stupids. Keep in mind that your attention is at 120% of normal, Take your time and remember exactly where your front bumper is located at all times. While monitoring your position and anything within 100 feet of where you are located. Moving or not. If for instance there is too much traffic in the intersection to allow you to make a safe and timely turn, Abort the turn and go on down the road and find a place to get turned around and come back and make a left turn into the street you wanted. Remember: You are 12 feet Tall, 8 feet+ wide and 40+ feet long and need lots of room to move around. If you try to turn onto an 8 foot wide street you need 16 feet of room to make the turn, any less and you make a big mess. Its easy if there's no traffic, It's a nightmare if there is too much traffic. If in doubt Don't attempt the turn, Find an alternate way to do it safely. If you drive a converted Transit Bus you have a good 35% better steering for making turns than a Highway Coach. An RTS for instance has a 7-foot turnout from the front bumper. This is due to the distance from the bumper to the centerline of the front axle being about 7 feet and the angle that the front steering is capable of. Most Highway Coaches cannot and will not turn that sharp. Do you want to know how yours turns? *** FYI: Training Info Follows *** You must do a complete 90 degree turn for this to help you learn where your bumper and wheels will track. You will need a parking lot for this! Easy: measure from the front bumper to the centerline of the front axle. Write that measurement down. Mark a chalk line at the axle, Then mark a set of lines straight down from the left and right edges of you front bumper. Have someone with a stick and chalk stand in front of your bus. Get in and crank the steering all the way left and move forward. Stop every few inches and have the helper place a mark on the pavement tracking the location of the corners of the bumper as you work through a hard turn to the left. Then once you have completed the left turn go back and do the right turn the same way. Measure the distance from the starting point of the bumper through its travel during the turn, Do both sides of the bumper. Also make note of the actual track of the front tires during the turns so that you can see where they go as you turn. Also if while you are setting this up, It is handy to also mark the rear tire position through the turns so that you can see where the rears track. Once you are aquainted with the turning and handling of you coach, It should become like a skin that you put on when driving. Your mental images should include a feel for the width, length and wheelbase and bumper locations. You should be able at a moments notice be able to sense your position and vehicle and where it relates to the surroundings. Note: You mileage may vary, Explanations, directions and or assumptions taken from this posting are soley your responsibility. The poster cannot and will not be held liable for loss, injury or mishaps of any kind. | ||
| John MC9 Rating: N/A |
Gotta' love the disclaimer!!! (good writeup!) | ||
| Mike Eades (Mike4905)
Rating: N/A |
Where are you located? I am south of tampa and I will tahe you out and let you drive my 4905 if it will help. | ||
| mikeEMC
Rating: N/A |
This is some of the best reading i have done on this site. thank you for helping the man | ||
| Tom Dessert (Mci5er)
Rating: N/A |
As an update to my original post, We had to postpone the pick-up of the bus until Dec. 29th. Weather here in Southern Oregon hasn't been the best these past few weeks. As we departed our home in Rogue River with weather reports of localized flooding along our route, I began to wonder if this was such a good idea. As it turned out the trip over to Bandon, Oregon was uneventful with all roads clear and little to no rain. We ran a pre-trip inspection of the bus, handled all the paperwork and with a huge smile on my face headed for our first stop. Honestly, guys it was great. I felt relaxed and confident filled with the knowledge, I'd received from your responses. Now all I had to done was to build on that foundation. After 75 miles on the road, a few of my concerns melted away as I saw the lights from Seven Feathers Casino in Canyonville. Our scheduled stop for the night. All was well, safely parked and setup for an evening of fun. Then, it started raining again. The next morning (still raining), the CB chatter was of exit closures due to mud slides south of our route. A quick call home, we found out from friends that the Rogue River was hours from flooding and possibly blocking our path. After topping off, we headed South on I-5. I would soon be hitting my first 6% grade thru the Coastal range near Mt. Sexton, not the conditions I'd hoped for but....! Again, recalling the post from the site helped tremedously on how to manage these type of situations. I took my time both going up and down, did some speed management using my Jake, watched my Tach and gear selections, and keep my sevice air intact. All in all, I learned a lot just in those first few climbs. As we arrived at our hometown of Rogue River, I could see that the river was high ... really high. Our plans were to park at a close friends house for the night, which meant not having to cross the only bridge over the flooding Rogue River to my home. Traffic was really bad, homes along the river were being evaluated. People were trying to pull out RV's from various campgrounds that would soon be underwater. Some were successful others not. I managed to get thru town and to my friends house. As I sat in the driveway idling, I thought of all the things that could have gone wrong but didn't. Man, was I lucky? A few moments later answered that question, as I idled into my friends old parking spot (he has as 38' stick-n-staple) that he had vacated for me. My wife standing just in front of the bus, directing me with the rain pouring down. The look on her face said it all. We sank the drivers side of the bus to the frame. I couldn't believe it. No one expected it. The spot had been used for parking for years. There it would stay until the next day and tow trucks became available. As we drove the fews miles home to our safe and dry house, passing several RV's abandon to the rising waters and seeing scores of people standing hopelessly at the waters edges as their property and belongs drafted away. We realized just how luck we really are. So my first outing as a busnut left quite an impression on me. I wanted to thank everyone for their contributions to my post. This site will forever more be considered by me as a place for higher learning. Thank you all. Respectfully Tom Dessert | ||
| Donald Lee Schwanke (Dontx)
Rating: N/A |
Well, there is a price: You got to share what you learn! Sounded like quite a trip, and a learning experience as well. Most of us have sunk a bus to the frame at least once. |