| Author |
Message |
Ed Jewett (Kristinsgrandpa)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, December 20, 2005 - 11:53 am: | |
I'd like to add to the continuing argument about the air filtration systems being used.
I've had my opinion for years, but up till now had no documentation.
Please use the following link:
www.Fleetguard-filtrum.com/html/products/htm
Ed. |
John MC9
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, December 20, 2005 - 12:16 pm: | |
........and I'm absolutely sure they are not in the slightest bit prejudiced
in favor of the product line they manufacture.....
"Wonder Bread builds healthy bodies"
"Colgate prevents cavities"
"Nike gives more speed to your running ability"
"Estrogen/Progesterone (PremPro) prevents heart attacks and Osteoperosis"
And uhh.... "Our filters will make your engine last longer" |
Earl-8-Ky
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, December 20, 2005 - 12:16 pm: | |
Ed the page will not display. |
Donald Lee Schwanke (Dontx)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, December 20, 2005 - 3:08 pm: | |
http://www.fleetguard-filtrum.com/html/products.htm#af is the address, something wrong with the first link. Apparently we had different dirt after 1979.
As John noted, you notice how they avoid reference to the independent study that found THEIR product was so appropriate? Kinda like an ad by foxes to build chicken houses, them foxes will always tell you they know how to build better fox-proof chicken houses! |
Ed Jewett (Kristinsgrandpa)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, December 20, 2005 - 3:22 pm: | |
Thanks Don. The website always comes up if the url is typed in. I don't know what the problem was.
They stated that the improvement in filter paper was the reason for the reference to 1979.
So what you guys are saying is that Fleetguard is lying about the whole thing???
Typical of a well respected, successful business like Fleetguard to go around lying like that.
Oh well just goes to show you that you just don't know who to trust.
I'll start looking for an oil bath filter for mine tomorrow.
Ed |
Donald Lee Schwanke (Dontx)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, December 20, 2005 - 4:03 pm: | |
I have no idea if they are lying or not, just suspicious that they make such a statement and don't put any testing reference behind it. I wrote K&N a few years ago about their ad and asked them for testing that revealed that theirs was any better than an oil bath. They replied that they had never tested oil baths, and that they suspected that an oil bath would do a better job. They were selling "convenience", and of course their product.
There well may be an advancement in paper in 1979, but it still seems to me that sucking thru a paper with holes small enough to catch dust will result in a filter media that becomes worse each day, and is more restrictive to air than air is. |
John MC9
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, December 20, 2005 - 4:24 pm: | |
Atta boy, Ed! You got the idea!!
(Hey guys... Let's send Ed one for Christma...oops.. "the Holiday") |
Dale L. Waller (Happycampersrus)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, December 20, 2005 - 4:43 pm: | |
Depends on who you talk to about their product. The manufacturer is going to tell you whatever you need to hear to make a sale. Without alot of money for testing it would be hard to prove or disprove a product claim with certainty.
Example
Call, Chevrolet ask them who builds the best truck
Answer, We here at GM have the best built trucks
Call, Ford ask them who builds the best truck
Answer, We here at Ford have the best built trucks
Call, Dodge ask them who builds the best truck
Answer, We here at Dodge have the best built trucks
See the pattern??
Years ago I seen a commercial on TV that introduced an oil filter as having the "New Micron Technology" to filter out impurities. I'm still laughing at that one. |
John MC9
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, December 20, 2005 - 5:08 pm: | |
Ed-
In all fairness (and just in case Santa is watching), those new
micro-gauge filters do trap a lot more dirt than earlier ones.
(more blah about philters here)
But do we need more filtration for an old bus engine that's
survived this long with whatever is on it now? Not one of us,
is going to run a bus as an RV and put the miles or time on
the engine, that a bus company does routinely. Well, for that
matter, will it do any good to change to a new filtration system
for an engine that's already been run with the filter that's been
on it?
It isn't like stopping smoking two packs a day and having that
lung clear up.... Putting on a new micro particle filter isn't going
to help an engine that's already been damaged by years of
"inadequate" filtration.
Like so many other things with conversions, one has to try to
keep the priorities straight. It's easy to get carried away and
put way too much into things that really don't matter.
In my opinion, this is one of those things.
Hey... as a side note... We were looking at a house that was
being built locally. I mentioned to the sales guy that I was
surprised that on such an expensive house that they used
particle board for the roof and outside walls. He told me how
much better the particle board was than plywood or solid wood
boards. He continued informing us, that "the wood today
isn't as good as the wood we had years ago".
Wow! Really!?!?
I told him he should complain to the guy upstairs.
(I didn't just fall off the turnip truck; I was pushed) |
niles steckbauer (Niles500)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, December 20, 2005 - 6:00 pm: | |
"particle board" is not an approved construction material for sheathing or decking - you most likely witnessed the installation of OSB - |
John MC9
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, December 20, 2005 - 7:25 pm: | |
Yeah. The sob was osb. Nomenclature BS, it's still particle board.
Same thing; better glue. Sawdust is sawdust, but the old trees were
better than today's trees? |
Donald Lee Schwanke (Dontx)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, December 20, 2005 - 7:58 pm: | |
Of course John, anybody knows we cut the good ones first, then go back for the sorry ones that can only be used for OSB |
John MC9
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, December 20, 2005 - 8:25 pm: | |
HAR... Yeah, Don! |
Gus Causbie (Gusc)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, December 20, 2005 - 9:11 pm: | |
Ed,
I didn't know there were any more people alive who believed ads/
Seriously, it is illegal to lie but they use words that make you believe what they don't actually say. Got that?? The only thing that happens is that finally the govt. says, "hey, if you can't back that up with test data you can't say it". So the advertiser says, "OK, I'll stop". Happens all the time. Texaco had to stop sayint their T3 something or other was superior because they had no test data. The latest issue of "Consumer Reports" has an article about this problem with new drugs. Kind of scary actually. |
Tim Hoskinson (Tdh37514151)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, December 21, 2005 - 11:34 am: | |
I agree with John most of the driving we all do is not on dirt roads. Even the construction ares now days are temp. paved. In the fortys and back the need for good filtration on a road vehicle was more so than today simply due to road conditions. I'm certainly not saying that you no longer need it I am simply saying that in most cases a paper filter will do a fine job of taking care of your engine. I would say that the oil bath as long as it is properly maintained will do a better job. But is it necessary. The paper filter I feel is simply easier maintenance. However it is up to the individual to decide if the ease of maintenance is worth changing out a good working oil bath system to a paper filter. I think they both work fine in the conditions of today it comes down to cost veres time veres need. Kinda like everything! Tim |
Russ Barnes (Neoruss)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, December 21, 2005 - 12:30 pm: | |
I love all these gunfights from well meaning people that tend to ignor trends. For example: everyday I drive about 52 miles each way to work and most on interstates. I pass at least a dozen trucks that have these cool stainless steel covered paper filters that are pulling in bugs, water and oh-my-gosh, dirt. These are trucks that the owner-operator or fleet owner expects to run say about three-quarters of a million miles of generating profits with little repair costs. They are then sold down the stream and often run to a million or million and a half miles. You know, all of you oil bath filter fans need to start a business selling them your newfangled technology because to read your replys they will be able to double or triple their engine life if they turned back the clock about 50 years. Guys, follow the money, if oil bath was better for this knid of use, what would be on these trucks? Now if you are a true desert rat that takes your bus into no-man's-land then go for the oil, but for me - it's the black strip that leads from one great place to visit to another. |
Donald Lee Schwanke (Dontx)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, December 21, 2005 - 1:21 pm: | |
I agree AND disagree with you Russ. To believe that what is used most often is the best filter, is not how it works. The truck makers love to stick on a simple piece of large pipe with a paper in it and call it a filter, much cheaper than an oil one. The buyers want only to not get their hands dirty, so THEY buy the cheap ones. Take the cheapest, crappy China engine on a scooter or whatever, yep, got a paper filter. Being a professional tightwad, everytime I had to fork out over $200 for a set of filters for my Kenworth, the ones you see every day, I always wished I had an oil bath option!
Fortunately, my GMC 4905 DID give me that option, and almost none of the buyers chose paper.. |
John MC9
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, December 21, 2005 - 9:39 pm: | |
Russ-
"Guys, follow the money, if oil bath was better......"
The money paid to have a mechanic clean and refresh an oil
bath filter outweighs the price of changing a paper filter. Tell
the owner/op that it's just as good as the oil bath, and which
way is he going to go? He's going to "follow the money"!
It's subtle brainwashing. |
Tom Caffrey (Pvcces)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, December 21, 2005 - 10:19 pm: | |
And the oil analysis is the only way to know if the filter is good enough. The funny part is that an oil analysis costs much less than an oil change.
How about that?
Tom Caffrey PD4106-2576
Suncatcher
Ketchikan, Alaska |
Donald Lee Schwanke (Dontx)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, December 21, 2005 - 10:54 pm: | |
Gosh, I don't know, could you tell Tom? I supposed that small gritty stuff that scratched the cylinder walls, rings, and pistons would be blown out with the metal it scraped off. |
Tom Caffrey (Pvcces)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, December 22, 2005 - 9:48 pm: | |
Don, that small stuff and the iron that wears off the engine both show up very well. Were you just kidding me?
We've been getting the analysis done mostly to watch the soot and so we know when the oil needs changing. I always thought that these Detroits turned the oil black awfully quick, so that was what I wanted to change, if I could.
So far, the toilet paper filter is getting us good reports. At around 13,000 miles, the soot was at .8% out of an allowable 6%, so we're still in the extendable range.
For what it's worth.
Tom Caffrey PD4106-2576
Suncatcher |
Donald Lee Schwanke (Dontx)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, December 22, 2005 - 10:22 pm: | |
No Tom, it was a serious question, I did not know if it would or not. Thanks for the answer. |