| Author |
Message |
Rusty Thompson (Rusty)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, December 30, 2005 - 12:16 am: | |
This I is a little embarasing but.... when I went to pick up my bus in Michigan (PD4104) I parked it on an incline set the emergency brake, and went into the store. Common practace when I drive a regular manual. The problem is that a bus isn't your average manual and gravity overcame friction and the bus rolled backwards into another car. I know it should have been in first but it wasn't I learned my lesson enough said. Anyway The cop desided that it was a not at fault accident since it was mechanicle falure and no one was driving, and since Michigan is a no fault state that means that the owner of the car is lialbe for damages... sucks to live in Michigan but I don't mind taking advantage of the system. Anyway yesterday I recieved a call from a lawyer from Michigan saying something about damages to the sum of $2300.63. So my question is should I go get a lawer, tell them to screw off and avoid their calls, or pay up.
I realy don't know Any Advise would be greatly appreciated
Rusty |
wayne Newland
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, December 30, 2005 - 12:44 am: | |
I hope that you had insurance. Turn it over to them. That's what you pay for. |
sylverstone (Sylverstone_pd4501864)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, December 30, 2005 - 2:58 am: | |
truthfully, there is no "legal" situation here.
if they said it was no fault, then it's no fault.
the issue is a moral one.
me? if it's his insurance company after you, tell 'em to stuff it.
if he wasn't insured, then you need to have your insurance company, or you, pay it.
-dd |
motorcoach1
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, December 30, 2005 - 3:13 am: | |
gee i hate to tell you this but when on an incline your front wheels turn into the curb just to breake it incase of the drive slipping ...when going uphill parking on the right ( wheels turn to the left / incace the parking break fails the curb will stop it ) no curb? ...well deal with it . sorry things happen ..good luck ...be nice and be humbel ,,,just a thought ..been there done that ..just be your self and if you know some one with a body shop work it out .. remember lawers want money ..people just want there car fixed .....ps i backed into a lotas europa i paid daaaa sh** happens |
John MC9
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, December 30, 2005 - 8:05 am: | |
Wayne said it best:
"I hope that you had insurance. Turn it over to them.
That's what you pay for."
It doesn't matter what the officer declared in his report, it's got
little if anything, to do with responsibility. Call your insurance
company and tell them your vehicle was involved in an accident.
I wouldn't wait another minute to do so, either. |
Paul Tillmann (Paultillmann)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, December 30, 2005 - 8:37 am: | |
I thought "no-fault" had only to do with medical expenses. If you damage someones property you (or your insurance company) pays. If there is bodily injury, then the no-fault kicks in for the medical expenses only. At least that's what "no-fault" insurance in NY is.
Paul |
Sojourner (Jjimage)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, December 30, 2005 - 9:00 am: | |
First of all..I'm not a lawyer but telephone call to settle any matter is not a legal communication system. So don’t accept anything over phone. Only via notarized paper send to you from certified lawyer. It could be fake lawyer over phone.
If car pull in behind or ahead of your bus’s path afterward….car driver a risk for damage after you already parked. This may not hold any water but smart driver would not risk anything on big wheel that can move toward his or her car & less vision behind bus to avoid backing into.
Suggestion to all bus nut drivers….always wise to carry camera to photo all condition of where in position of impact and record the damage. I believe video camera (movie type) is better to record everything while sound & traffic moving by.
And most important (hope you already have), never drive vehicle without liability insurance to protect yourself from LOSING EVERYTHING you have. One of lawyer’s favorite cases to rip off someone life's earning.
I was 20 miles from home from 8000 mi trip and was bumper to bumper traffic jam during construction on I-275. I'm in final lane while right traffic trying to merge…….usually common sense to let every other in but no he insist to try to get-in. He finally stops with just inches to my side (MCI-8). Been barely moving & stop & go….all of sudden bus felt shaking, so look in right rear mirror…..saw chrome trims pealing off & scraping a new Chrysler. Guest what I forgot.....my dolly is 8.5 ft wide…..oh no…I should've stop let him go because he was too close to clear. Anyway after do-it-your-self reports made with my video camera showing where marking on pavement & vehicle position & so on, went to Michigan State post to report. Show them video from camera’s screen & answer questions. Troopers said I was not responsible for his damage because I was in the right-a-way path. Chrysler’s driver didn’t have car in control.
By the way Chrysler driver’s insurance man (or driver) called that I was to pay for damage…..told him what trooper said….never heard from since 1998. Anyway, remember phone call is not legal to settle! It just talks or noises!
Oh well that alone paid for my $1000 camera & liability insurance to avoid attorney fees & hours of time.
FWIW
Sojourn for Christ, Jerry
|
morgan Clough (Mclough777)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, December 30, 2005 - 10:18 am: | |
say Rusty,
I dont want to offend anyone or tick you off . BUT what if the role was reversed and he rolled into the front of your NEW Old bus? would you want to pay for his mistake. would you want someone to tell you "stuff it"
the other guy is right it is a moral issue. u morally need to fix this guys car.
but i firmly beleive in what goes around comes around , so IF you dodnt fix his car, im sure in the future it will happen to you.
Just my opinion
morgan |
John MC9
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, December 30, 2005 - 10:21 am: | |
I don't carry insurance to protect me against lawsuits, I carry
insurance to allow me to pay for any damages I may cause
to someone else, or their property. That's what insurance
is for; to help insure the damaged party is made whole.
A fella' that rear-ended my vehicle had next to no insurance.
My bills had to be paid by me (and my own insurance company).
When an individual causes damage and has little or no insurance,
there isn't all that much you can do to collect. It can take years
of hounding and hunting and court appearances. The best thing
to have, is the "underinsured" rider on your own policy. That
will guarantee some return in the event the other party's liability
coverage was less than your damages.
It's always been my belief, that if people took responsibility
for their actions, there would be no need for lawyers. |
Ian Giffin (Admin)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, December 30, 2005 - 10:49 am: | |
Rusty,
This is not legal advice... just advice.
Most lawyers will offer potential clients a free initial consultation of about a half hour or so. They offer this free initial contact so as to advise you about the very question you pose on this bulletin board.
Take some time to acquire an appointment with a local reputable firm who offers a free visit by asking friends, relatives and business associates or aquaintances for their recommended lawyer. Don't go to a one person lawyer firm that deals mainly in real estate or family matters. There are very large firms who offer the free initial visit. Matter of fact, the larger they are, the more likely they are to offer the free service.
Write down everything you know that is factual about your situation and present this document to the lawyer. Remember a lawyer is specially trained to read extremely quickly through boxes of paperwork and will scan through your facts in a snap, leaving more time to chat about your situation.
Don't forget: the important question to ask the lawyer is the one you have asked here, "should I get a lawyer?"
And, hey, relax. Mistakes happen. You'll work this out just fine and life will go on as usual.
Ian
www.busnut.com |
Marc Bourget
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, December 30, 2005 - 12:08 pm: | |
The idea behind "no fault" is to reduce the contentiousness and thus the expense of litigation.
"No Fault" doesn't relieve the moral obligation of being responsible for your own negligence. Michigan decided to limit "fault" exposure to criminal acts. As Rusty admits, he shoulda put it in first gear. With some busses, depending on brake setup and the slope of the hill, it'd be wise to chock the wheel as well. (In addition to the recommendation to use the curb as a "chock")
I think if the officer whould have had a better perspective on the cause (not in first gear) rather than a linkage breaking or air line busting, Rusty might have been subjected to a ticket.
Better explanation is Rusty showed responsible behavior and attitude and the officer decided he didn't have to add insult to injury! Kudos to both Rusty and the Officer |
Bob Shafer (Michigander_bob)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, December 30, 2005 - 4:00 pm: | |
Rusty...
In michigan (your insurance) pays to repair (your) car. If it was your fault you would have got a ticket and the other party is then entitled to recoup their collision deductable from you. Usually $0 - $1,000.00 most people carry $500.00 deductable.
Call your ins. co. and let them deal with it. Thats what they get paid the big bucks for.
Bob 4104-2346
Flint Mi |
t gojenola
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, December 30, 2005 - 4:07 pm: | |
I believe the officer's statement about "not at fault" had to do with whether he considered it an offense deserving of a citation. Nothing about legal liability or insurance requirements.
As for the "no fault" laws, not all states write the same statutes. In Michigan a moving vehicle is responsible for damages inflicted on any property not in the roadway - including a parked car.
http://www.michigan.gov/documents/cis_ofis_ip202_25083_7.pdf
A case in point is one where a Michigan man driving a loaded truck in an addjacent field (not on a roadway) was struck by a small airplane making an emergency landing:
http://www.insurancejournal.com/news/midwest/2005/12/22/63396.htm |
Donald Lee Schwanke (Dontx)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, December 30, 2005 - 4:21 pm: | |
Sorta related I guess, I never trusted the DD3 brakes for their use as a parking brake (I changed over to an allison without a parking pawl). I carried a pair of wheel chocks just inside the door on the entrance step, always put them out if there were any chance of rolling. First of all, you never know for SURE that the brakes are firmly engaged, and also if you look over a DD3 mechanism you can see how easy it would be to fail in this mode.
They never did any good, the brakes never failed, but I sure ate that meal or did that shopping or sleeping with a lot more relaxed feeling |
Rusty Thompson (Rusty)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, December 30, 2005 - 5:15 pm: | |
Thanks for all the advise
Im on brake so I have to make this short.
This accident was 6 months ago and me nor my insurance company heard anything about it till know.
They called me not my insurance so I'm assuming their making a case against me.
I agree about the moral obligations but im fairly sure that its an isurance company Im dealing with not a person. And I know that because I've been screwed by insurance doesn't meen that I should screw them over. But I have and I will if I get the chance.
Again thanks for the advise and I'm not offended by anyones opinions so keep them coming |
John MC9
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, December 30, 2005 - 6:39 pm: | |
Rusty-
They send the notice to you, not your insurance company,
because they can't put a claim in, only you can. Your insurance
company insures you against loss, not anyone else. (your loss
is whatever has to be paid to make the other party whole)
Most companies state on the policy, that they must be notified
as soon as possible after an accident or loss, for the policy to
be effective. They may be able to deny your claim if you
neglected to notify them within a reasonable time that you
were involved in an accident. Although 6 months may not
sound unreasonable to some people, for a company to do
an investigation of the accident and an assessment of loss,
6 months after the fact, may be much too long.
If you called your insurance company and notified them of the
accident 6 months ago, then just make a copy of the claim
you just received and send the original to them. The "case"
is against you, and as long as you have insurance, they pay
the claim (provided you followed their rules of reporting it).
This isn't any big deal.... Hell, accidents happen. That's why
we bother paying a company to gamble that we won't.
Disclaimer:
I'm not an attorney or insurance company representitive and
can not be held responsible for silly acts or random nudity. |
morgan Clough (Mclough777)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, December 30, 2005 - 8:11 pm: | |
what ill bet happend is that the other party went to thier insurance and they paid the claim. Now the insurance company is coming after you to recoup there loss as well as the other partys deductable.
My car was stolen 5 months ago. my ins. paid my claim now the ins company is going after kids who stole myt car. |
Marc Bourget
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, December 30, 2005 - 11:08 pm: | |
Morgan, what you're describing is a thing called subrogation. Rusty, if he was from out of state (out of MI) may take the incident out of Michigan No Fault laws. The link above didn't discuss parked off roadways, just legally parked. Rusty may be outside the "no fault" provisions and that or the deductible is why he was contacted by the attorney.
Maybe the delay was due to the time it took to first obtain a denial from the car owner's insurance. ???? |
Rusty Thompson (Rusty)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, December 30, 2005 - 11:48 pm: | |
I realy appreciate all the feed back I've gotten from my question. It's given me plenty of perspective and I now have a better Idea of how to handle it. And I also appreciate the advise about cocking the wheels when on an incline so that it will steer into the crub. I guess it's "common" sense but I can honestly say that it never occured to me before. For the entire drive back I used 4 very big rocks behind the tires to keep it from going anywhere when I was away and keeping it in an appropriate gear helped I'm sure.
Again thank you very much...
Rusty |
John MC9
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, December 31, 2005 - 7:58 am: | |
Rusty -
Marc -
"A true “no fault” system should cover drivers completely with
their own policies, and also bar drivers from ever suing each
other for damages. However, Michigan and other states do not
use a pure system. Instead, they mix the no fault system and
the standard liability system, which says that you must pay for
damages that you cause. Make sure that you learn Michigan’s
limits before you commit to a no fault insurance policy there."
From:
No Fault Insurance Michigan
This link is interesting, but is somewhat vague regarding specifics:
State-by-State Insurance Laws and Quotes |
Dale L. Waller (Happycampersrus)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, December 31, 2005 - 10:10 am: | |
Man, I just don't agree with that micky mouse way of life!!
If that guy's car was parked LEGALLY and CORRECTLY and a big ole bus runs over it the bus owner should be held accountable. Your bus may have distroyed this guy's only way to work. BUUTTT NO, now our litigious society takes over driving up my Insurance rates and your Insurance rates, because no one wants to pay for their actions.
To stiff that guy so he has to pay for repairs or replacement to his vehicle DUE to your negligence is just wrong. If you traded Insurance information just remember he knows where you live.
If it's my fault or I do something stupid like not taking preventive measures to make a situation safe hold me ACCOUNTABLE.
I don't mean to come down so hard on you, But seems you didn't give law enforcement all the details. I would be willing to bet you should have gotten at least a Defective Equipment ticket for the "mechanical failure". Bus makers have different opinions on HAND , PARKING, and EMERGENCY brakes and PARKING procedures so I'm not sure of yours. Are you?
This is not an attack on you personally, But my opinion is YOU or YOUR insurance should pay for an accident that you caused, The guy's parked car wasn't doing anything wrong by just sitting there.
As MARC is saying you being from another state could also come into play here on the NO FAULT laws in Michigan situation, so be prepared to do battle if you think you are in the right.
Dale |
John MC9
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, December 31, 2005 - 10:42 am: | |
HAR!!
I agree with everything, but this:
"now our litigious society takes over driving up my Insurance rates"
It's when an insurance company (or individual) refuses to make
proper settlement, that litigation becomes the only way to solve
the loss.
The insurance companies are among the wealthiest in the world;
they have the most real estate, own the biggest buildings, and
they employ thousands of very well paid employees.
The insurance companies make billions of dollars per year
in spite of massive pay outs due to storms, etc. They'd love
to have everyone believe that filing a claim is hurting them....
They'd love to have you believe that they have to raise your
rates due to people that file claims.
The purpose of having insurance, is to insure that you have a
way to reimburse those that you cause injury to. And the
insurance company that you subscribe to, offers that package
to you for that very purpose. Don't get suckered in to the
insurance company hype and propaganda. If you're involved in
an accident, or suffer a loss that you have bought insurance
coverage for, file the *#^&% claim and force the company
to make good on the contract they made with you.
The filings of claims aren't the reason for rate increases, the
insurance company's greed is the reason for the rate increases.
</rant> |
Dale L. Waller (Happycampersrus)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, December 31, 2005 - 11:33 am: | |
John,
I agree with what you are saying about the Insurance company, But they are gonna raise our rates whether I believe their propaganda or not.
They just need an excuse to raise rates or they tell you some BS about how expensive it is to run their business. I agree that they are some greedy ^#^*$^*.
What I'm saying about a litigious society applies here. If he tells them to "screw off and avoid their calls" (see Rusty's 1st post) that is going to start the litigation off. Then the Insurance co. has that excuse I was talking about to raise rates even though the dirty ^$(!&^$%#* have enough money to pay every lawyer in the world. Lawyers love this kinda thing.
Try not to give the rotten $#^&(@! any more excuses to raise rates. They have enough already. Man up and take responsablity and have things made right to the person that had property loss and keep the Lawyers out of the game.
If people don't want to be responsible for their actions Don't leave the house.
Personal note: I would do my best to help the guy out after I mashed his car even if I had to give my own Insurance co. a battle until they settled the claim. Thats why I pay them the big bucks to cover my own stupidity.
Dale |
John MC9
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, December 31, 2005 - 11:49 am: | |
Yup! 100%, Dale!
The problem is, it's usually the insurance company that holds
up things and waits until court action is near. They invest every
penny they take in, and the longer the cash sits in their accounts,
the more interest it accumulates. So, letting you wait three years
for a court date, then paying off just prior to that date, is an
advantage for them. They just capitalized on other's woes.
Awww, we all know well what it's all about. Even if Rusty
wanted his company to pay the guy quick, they may not...
The guy may have to wait a few years to get reimbursed...
Meanwhile, he'll be swearing at Rusty..
Agony, huh? Now imagine the folks down here, that suffered
storm damage from the 2004 hurricanes, still with blue tarps
on the roof, waiting for the insurance check.. And the ones
in New Orleans, who are being denied a claim, because their
loss was due to "flooding", not a direct hurricane hit....
Wonder why I hate insurance companies?
</maalox_moment> |
Dale L. Waller (Happycampersrus)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, December 31, 2005 - 3:20 pm: | |
Well you know that flood damage caused that roof blow off. Flooding made the structure weak.
Don't get me started on the BS the insurance companies are giving those folks that put who knows how much money into Insurance premiums just to hear some crap like that. |
airless in Jacksonville
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, December 31, 2005 - 6:47 pm: | |
Sorry John I have to disagree with your point regarding New Orleans. New Orleans was not hit by a hurricane they were damaged by a flood. Mississippi in contrast was destroyed by a hurricane and they are claiming flood. This is first hand knowledge not assumed knowledge.
I hope that this was reported both to the state and to the insurance company at the time of the accident. Most state laws have a filing period regarding claims above a certain amount regardless of fault. |
John MC9
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, December 31, 2005 - 8:07 pm: | |
airless -
Would there have been a flood, if it were not for the hurricane.......
If the people paid for insurance, the company should pay up.
(we're way off topic again..) |
motorcoach1
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, December 31, 2005 - 8:09 pm: | |
well if it makes you feel better, a guy at work ran in the back bumper friday and put a big crease in it ....gezzzz ....and did it with a giant forklift ..... bad case of the dumba****, i guess..i'm not mad just mildy pissed...lol |
Eric Lake (Dc_bus_nut)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, January 01, 2006 - 12:50 am: | |
Karma, Godlike, A man of integrity, etc...whatever you want to call it.
Be a responsible human being; pay for the damages(sell the gmc & buy an mci if you need to) & "walk" away knowing you did ther right thing.
There's a lot to be said for a good night's sleep & a clean conscious.
The world needs more decent human beings that make a positive impact upon the world as a whole. Start small & think grand!
Peace,
Eric Lake |
Roderick W. Chandler (Rod)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, January 01, 2006 - 9:21 am: | |
Airless Although New Orleans was on the "soft" sde of the hurricane the wind still took all the Tin Roof and siding off my son's garage. He was on the Metarie ridge and no water got to his house. His damage was caused by Hurricane winds not water. That's a fact. |
airless in Jacksonville
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, January 01, 2006 - 6:29 pm: | |
I understand Rod. Just from the thought that most people think that New Orleans is the only area affected. When in fact they have less damage then most of the other areas. MOST have houses still in New Orleans granted they may have some damage. Most in Mississippi DO not have anything damaged or not.
Insurance companies should pay their claims tragically they are not. When presented with a claim in the future that I would consider absorbing rather then filing I will not ever hesitate in filing the claim. |
Doug Dickinson (Dougd470)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, January 04, 2006 - 11:36 am: | |
Rusty
Be very careful about this. If someone wants to talk to you about the issue, insist that they contact you in writing first. They are obligated to do so if they are a lawyer or an insurance company. Phone calls don't hold up in court. Once you know exactly who is attempting to get reimbursed, you can take the appropriate action. Reputable companies would have done this anyway before now.
As for the "moral thing to do" - In a no-fault state, the whole point is that you have to protect yourself - not the other guy - when it comes to property damage. The other guy is responsible as the law requires, and if they did not have insurance, they made their own decisions and should live by it.
I may feel sorry when sopmeone makes a bad decision, but then I feel sorry for all the people that didn't leave New Orleans when they could have and obviously should have. That doesn't mean I am buying them a new house because of their bad decisions.
While I may not agree with laws all the time, they DO spell out (in most cases) what we each need to do and be responsible for. If we don't like it, then we need to change it. That is our responsibility!
Off my soap-box now. |
Dale Waller (Happycampersrus)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, January 08, 2006 - 5:23 pm: | |
Doug,
"I may feel sorry when sopmeone makes a bad decision, but then I feel sorry for all the people that didn't leave New Orleans when they could have and obviously should have. That doesn't mean I am buying them a new house because of their bad decisions."
Your negligence or stupidity didn't cost them their homes either. In this case Rusty has already admitted that he should have parked the bus in gear. So yes it was his fault.
Law Enforcement dropped the ball in this case. If Rusty had told them He didn't park the bus as he should have He would have gotten a ticket, citation, or summons whatever it is called there.
Basic drivers education instructs you to put the vehicle in gear or park and apply the parking brake. They also instruct you depending on whether you park up hill or down hill as how to position your steering tires to the curb.
Most states have Drivers License pretest booklets that will have this information in it.
FWIW, Dale |