| Author | Message | ||
| visitor Rating: N/A |
Have any of you been able to deduct any of the cost of your conversion? I recall hearing some time ago that an RV / bus conversion could be written off as a second home. Anybody have any more info / experence with this? Thanks Mark | ||
| waynewland@earthlink.net
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One secret is to use the bus for business. You must document WHO you met, WHAT you accomplished, WHERE you traveled to, WHEN you traveled (include dodmeter reading) and WHY you took the trip. A family band is always traveling from gig to gig. You might have a business that sells to other bus nuts. Of course, you are always selling your product and looking for new customers. As a second home, you had better talk to a good CPA. The rules change often. If you take out a second mortage on your house to finance the coach, I think that the interest on the mortage is deductable. I use the second option and write off my coach for business. Just be careful of your insurance. | ||
| Donald Lee Schwanke (Dontx)
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I reckon it would be sensible to get your DOT inspection and have a CDL as well. Sure would be handy if you ever had to prove "intent". | ||
| John MC9 Rating: N/A |
DOT? CDL? It's a private motorhome. If I use my car for business, I don't need to register it as a commercial vehicle, nor would I need commercial insurance for it. If you use half your house for business purposes (home office) you don't need to get the property re-zoned, or need special insurance for the home. Let's not complicate things here. About the only downside, would be the capital gains when you sell it, due to having already taken a tax break for depreciation.. | ||
| David Hartley (Drdave)
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Pay your taxes so the government can build the roads you drive on. For every tax evaders dollar the people that pay theirs have to pay yours too! if you have a bonafide business and you follow the tax rules you can save some money. If you make or have so much money that you are worried about paying taxes then maybe you should pay. If you don't want to pay taxes then become a non-profit 301 C and then just become a leech and burden to others that actually have to work for a living. Nobody can tell me that there isn't profit being used or taken by any non-profit, There is a benefit to someone being taken! Ouch! I fell off my soapbox...."That's gonna leave a mark!  " | ||
| JimH Rating: N/A |
Bad news -- it is not taxed at the capitol gains rate - it is taxed as "recapurted depreciation" rate which is the same as ordinary income! | ||
| David Hartley (Drdave)
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Capital gains only kicks in when you have something of value. I don't have that problem... I is Poor.... | ||
| John MC9 Rating: N/A |
Welcome to the "club", Dave! And Jim...yeah..still gotta' pay in the end! (they always get you in "the end". | ||
| visitor Rating: N/A |
Dave! (Dr Dave) I DO pay taxes... Not trying to EVADE paying whats due to uncle sam. Just want to deduct what is ALLOWED by uncle sam! Anyone here have any experience with this? Thanks again, Mark | ||
| John MC9 Rating: N/A |
We all pay taxes and the richest pay the highest percentage of taxes. That's unfair to those that are the wealthiest, not unfair to others... That hyperbole has always been promoted by the tax and spend crew, as if the wealthy don't deserve to keep as much as they can.... Phooooie! If it weren't for the 16th amendment, none of us would be paying taxes. The taxation was to support the temporary war effort, not to further the quest of some socialistic regime... There Dave! -That's- how you mouth off! (gotta' show these kids how to do everything) | ||
| John MC9 Rating: N/A |
Oh yeah: History of the 16th Amendment | ||
| Ed Jewett (Kristinsgrandpa)
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When I had a loan on a motorhome I deducted the interest. It was clearly spelled out in the pamplet that the IRS published. I don't have any deductions for my coach, it's paid for. Check with a CPA, boats big enough to live on are (were) deductible. Certain amenities are required. Ed | ||
| morgan Clough (Mclough777)
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yes last i knew snd home expense is deductable, . Also all these musicians who have buses registered as a motorhome are doing so illegally.. Bus should be registered as commercial. same with those buses that sleep over 11 people. must have cdl license. it does not matter how many sleep on it , if it has capacity. Iused to own limousine business and and any limo that carried 12 had to have cdl license and carry a higher liability rate. | ||
| Donald Lee Schwanke (Dontx)
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I was not suggesting that you could not get by without it, but would I ever love to be an attorney for the poor sucker that pulled out in front of you and you clobbered! You can bet the safety of the coach and your skills are going to play big time on the outcome. Having avoided the necessary cdl and DOT inspection would tend to be not in your favor. Hard telling what your insurance company would do when THEY found out you were using your "RV" for business purposes, and they had given you an RV policy. | ||
| Donald Lee Schwanke (Dontx)
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AND, don't forget, the over 26,001 GVWR applies, as well you have added those words "when used commercially" to that weight rating. | ||
| David Hartley (Drdave)
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Sorry, My "Mouth Off" Button is all gummed up lately. It wasn't an attack so much as one of those oxymoronic statements. Iv'e been fuming a little about fuel taxes and the jerks that were fueling up thier dually truck next to me a week ago. I was buying "road diesel" and they were pumping "red" diesel into thier truck and piggy-back tank. I made a comment while knowing better I was flatly told that they were "exempt" because they were doing hurricane cleanup. ( or so that spray painted sign said on the trailer! ) In fact it happened right here in central florida and these people run around excercising flagrantly breaking the tax laws and get away with it. If you can prove a write off and deduction on taxes and do it the right way without getting into those questionable situations I say go for it. But if you are doing it and flaunting it like a crook then the tax-police need your address! What we all don't need are the "tax-police" starting to look into our hobby and ownership of converted buses or we will start paying real estate taxes on our rolling homes and being required to carry millions of dollars in liability insurance to boot. If I had to pay extra taxes on my buses along with my property taxes which are a tough pill to take already I would have to get rid of the buses. I could just imagine having to scrape together another $200 a month just for taxes. And still have to keep the insurance and tags too. Technically there is a problem with most insurance companies and motorhomes or private coaches. Ecerything is fine until you get involved in an accident. If you have any form of advertising on your coach they view the coach as commercial and may exclude you from coverage or reject a claim. | ||
| John MC9 Rating: N/A |
Morgan - The musician's bus conversion is not "for hire", it is a private recreational vehicle that has been leased to them, or owned by them. There are no laws dictating how many people can stay in an RV at any given time, that would cause it to be classified other than an RV. Donald - "You can bet the safety of the coach and your skills are going to play big time on the outcome. " It doesn't matter if it's a car or a bus you're driving, when you run into something, you are going to to be scrutinized. Having a CDL, or DOT tags do not mean a thing regarding liability, or proving fault. Secondly, a dot, CDL, or any other commercial license and registration is not required for a recreational vehicle. The RV industry has done well with their lobbying against such things. Egads, why not require a home bus converter to be licensed as an electrician, plumber, carpenter, mechanic, etc? I'm always amazed how much for granted our freedom is taken, and how much of it is so willing to be abandoned. | ||
| Dale Waller (Happycampersrus)
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"Egads, why not require a home bus converter to be licensed as an electrician, plumber, carpenter, mechanic, etc?" John, What have I told you about giving people excuses? LOL. Now the Gooberment will be after all of us. The news and "W" say's that Homoland Security has the right to spy. Dale | ||
| morgan Clough (Mclough777)
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john mc9, im not gonna get in a pissing contest about not for hire. it can not be private personal motorhome when only 1 of the band members owns it and you have 5,6 7, PAID employees riding on bus. ITS COMMERCIAL. I could careless how they do it, but IF an accident ever happened one employee sues insurance and man they wont cover it. And I the business owner better watch out cuase he would lose everything. Most PROFESSIONAL musicians have thier busses commercial and the drivers MUST have log books. yes bus is leased but if u ask their drivers they are required that way. | ||
| John MC9 Rating: N/A |
Dale - All politicians gross me out. | ||
| Johnny Rating: N/A |
"same with those buses that sleep over 11 people. must have cdl license. it does not matter how many sleep on it , if it has capacity. Iused to own limousine business and and any limo that carried 12 had to have cdl license and carry a higher liability rate." Say what? No CDL is needed unless the vehicle holds SIXTEEN people. We have people at work driving mini-buses & 15-passenger vans/limos on regular chauffeur's licences daily. | ||
| John MC9 Rating: N/A |
Morgan - This has gone so far off-topic... but.. don't they all.. Many entertainers hire a coach, with a driver. They are in fact, chartering a motorhome. It is then a commercial vehicle, hired to take them to and from, point A to B. They usually pay per mile and an hourly rate. The owner of the motorhome rental business and his vehicles may fall to commercial rules. Other entertainers buy a motorhome and get someone to drive for them from point A to B (so they can sleep, practice, do coke, etc...), and since they alone are the owners and users of it, it is a private motorhome and does not fall to commercial licensing. If that band rents out a house to practice, eat and sleep in, do you really think they'd have to have the property re-zoned for business? Visitor - A quick gooooogle brought a number of sites that discuss the tax deductions for a motorhome: Gooogle this | ||
| Donald Lee Schwanke (Dontx)
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Oh Goody! If that is the way it is, I am going to buy me another Kenworth with big sleeper. Then I am going to buy Oranges in Florida and haul them to Canada and resell them. Since it is MY vehicle and I am hauling MY stuff, I won't need a cdl, dot inspection, commercial plates, etc. Won't cost me enough to be worth talking about. What is wrong with this picture? | ||
| John MC9 Rating: N/A |
Donald - "What is wrong with this picture?" Everything, Donald. But you've used the wrong brush, colors, and paint. No need to buy another kennelwort, just fill your motorhome with a few tons of a product your are going to buy and sell, and you've turned it into a commercial vehicle. The argument was regarding people using their own motorhome to sleep and live in while en route from point A to B. The fact they will do a job at point A or B has nothing to do with their use of the motorhome. Aaarraagghh. | ||
| niles steckbauer (Niles500)
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Confucius say - Man who tries to play semantics with the Law, may find himself fitted for new STRIPED SUIT - moral of the story is read the actual law and its intent - the reason this country is so litigious is because the PEOPLE of this country are always trying to find some kind of loophole or a reason why THE LAW DOESN'T APPLY TO ME - FWIW | ||
| John MC9 Rating: N/A |
hmmmm... "the PEOPLE of this country are always trying to find some kind of loophole or a reason why THE LAW DOESN'T APPLY TO ME " When one considers that most "laws" limit "freedom", and have been created for the sole purpose of raising revenue, one wonders why more people do not question the purpose of the "law". Roll over Niles, they love ya' !! HAR!! | ||
| Donald Lee Schwanke (Dontx)
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Rats John, and I thought I had a good thing going on. But what if they sell the instruments they haul around? Back to the Kenworth though, nothing to haul back to Florida. So since I am not engaged in commerce, running empty, just RVing back to Florida, do I need to complete log books, stop at weight stations, obey hours of driving? Or do I even need a cdl? Don't get too excited, we are still almost sorta on the original topic. | ||
| John MC9 Rating: N/A |
Don - Get your Kenniewort registered as an RV, and we'll talk, OK? This "debate" was regarding the use of a vehicle registered as a motorhome, and privately owned by entertainers (or other people in any business), to live in and transport themselves from job site to job site. Should it be registered as a commercial vehicle and fall to DOT and CDL licensing? The answer is no. I'd love to read documentation proving otherwise! | ||
| niles steckbauer (Niles500)
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Errrr ... I believe this was the topic ... -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- By visitor (71.2.216.57) on Monday, January 02, 2006 - 1:01 am: Edit Post Have any of you been able to deduct any of the cost of your conversion? I recall hearing some time ago that an RV / bus conversion could be written off as a second home. Anybody have any more info / experence with this? Thanks Mark | ||
| John MC9 Rating: N/A |
oops. Niles is not up to speed? 1. It was mentioned that if the poster used it for business, some of the usage may be tax deductible. 2. Then it was mentioned, that if it was to be used for business, the poster would need to have it DOT certified and have a CDL to use it legally. 3. The statement in number 2 was restated again and again. Now Niles.... You know a bit about law... would you let number 2 and subsequent similar posts stand as-is? | ||
| niles steckbauer (Niles500)
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Unfortunately, and all to uncommon for this board, I was attempting to respond to the original posters query - not get him involved unnecessarily in some type of illicit tax evasion scheme that might come back and bite him on his tax A** - all the info he needs is contained here on page 2 as far as motgage interest: http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p936.pdf I know of no way to "deduct" the 'cost' of any conversion, nor the 'cost' of any home - primary or secondary - Had "visitor" asked about running a business out of his bus, my advice would have been the same (to read the tax law himself) and the addition of consulting his insurance agent. Please read it yourselves, as it is very easy to understand, and even has graphics and worksheets - HTH | ||
| John MC9 Rating: N/A |
Mark - This following URLs may give you an idea of some tax relief that may be possible: 2005 Tax Deduction Class "A" Motorhome Tax Deductibility for RV / Motorhome Deducting Motorhome And of course, there's a ton more at Google | ||
| Stan Rating: N/A |
I just looked at the the URL '2005 Tax Deduction Class "A" Motorhome' and the first reply is right on the money: > You question seems to be directed to a professional tax consultant. I think you need to bite the bullet and consult with a professional on that issue. I would not want to go to an IRS audit and say I learn it on the internet. Just my humble opinion.< A significant amount of information on the internet is invalid, obsolete, uninformed or just plain wrong. Asking for legal advice on a bulletin board is not too smart and you won't get many answers from people who are qualified to provide it. The mere fact that someone did something, somewhere at some time and got away with it is not legal advice. | ||
| John MC9 Rating: N/A |
Too bad you didn't read that entire thread, or quote from it,Stan. There's a ton of good advice to be had here! | ||
| Stan Rating: N/A |
John: I read the entire thread once and I have just read it again. I see several posts that say to see a tax accountant or similar wording. I see people who give a definite answer and the next post says that the previous post is wrong. This is normal on a bb when amateurs give professional opinions. Where is the ton of good advice that anyone knows is correct, except for the advice that I quoted? I didn't see anyone claim to be a CPA or tax lawyer, just a lot of conflicting information. | ||
| John MC9 Rating: N/A |
Stan - I was once told by a "professional" CPA, that I owed unk sammy almost three grand in taxes. I took all my records into the local IRS office and had them do it. Instead of paying, I received close to $800 back. You can pay big $$ for opinions, but even those may not be correct. What usually is correct, is the sheer common sense we all have built into our well crafted brains. Too often we overlook the obvious, and gravitate to the complex, thinking that things just can not be all that simple to be correct.... | ||
| Stan Rating: N/A |
John: Read this again from my first post >The mere fact that someone did something, somewhere at some time and got away with it is not legal advice.< The tax laws are not simple. A CPA is responsible for the advice he gives. The clerk in the IRS office is not. The IRS can and does re-assess and then charge penalty and interest when their employees make mistakes. BTDT on a written ruling. | ||
| niles steckbauer (Niles500)
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Independent testing of IRS employee's interpretations have previously found that they are correct only about 40% of the time - Some time I'll tell you about the time that the Investment Tax Credit Instruction Publication was, according to the IRS, not correct. The IRS agent said my Form was completed EXACTLY as the instructions dictated, but the actual 'Tax Code' was the Law, not the Instructions published by the IRS - I'm sure there are plenty of horror stories out there better than that - Thanks to the kinder gentler IRS they are not real jerks if you can prove an honest mistake was made, but they are still gorillas if they think you're trying to run a scam (we're talking large fines and federal prison time) - And Stan is right, they can send you a bill anytime within , I think, 3 or 5 years if the auditor finds out THEY made a mistake in their assessment - I have never heard of the IRS doing taxes for anyone, and I don't think that is legal - Did they bill you for it ? - If its free I'm gonna have them do mine every year - Please tell me who to call - | ||
| Donald Lee Schwanke (Dontx)
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If you are one of those that don't want to get involved, or expect a CPA or a tax prep office can do you justice, AFTER they do yours next time, pull up the Turbo Tax program, go thru it, and see how many,many questions they never even asked, and how much you probably wasted. Computers seem to remember much better than the guy who would rather not get involved with unfamiliar problems, so he avoids them, and gets more tax returns done in a given time. Why not, it sure don't cost HIM anything. | ||
| John MC9 Rating: N/A |
Niles - The IRS offices have helped fill out forms and have given very qualified suggestions to millions of individuals seeking help filling out and filing their return. I have yet to meet one IRS employee that's been anything but decent, well mannered, and well qualified. The IRS office does not charge for that service (their "services" are paid by your (and my) tax dollars). They did it in NY, they did it in Ma., and they do it down here in sunny Fl. My friend in Al. had his done last year by the local IRS there. My wife's cousin in Vt. had his done by the IRS, there. Unless something's changed since last year, as far as I know, it's still same ol'; same ol'. And those in the IRS office are more qualified than anyone in the mall tax kiosk. The point of all this, as it was intended to the poster of this severely ravished thread: Yes, there are many legal ways to claim some sort of a deduction for your motorhome. If you have someone doing your taxes for you, ask them about it. If you do your taxes yourself, there are three links with suggestions I provided, and many more to read at, by doing a simple search. You guys always seem to make a mountain out of a mole hill. Come'on out Niles, the black helicopters have left your home.. | ||
| The Shadow Rating: N/A |
Niles, Some of us are still following the Yellow Brick Road. They're selfish and won't share the info. I've met plenty of nice IRS Revenue Agents, when they're off duty! What do they say about one bad apple? | ||
| niles steckbauer (Niles500)
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"I took all my records into the local IRS office and had them do it. Instead of paying, I received close to $800 back." - John, they did not DO IT or they would have SIGNED your return as TAX PREPARER as required by law. "The IRS offices have helped fill out forms and have given very qualified suggestions to millions of individuals seeking help filling out and filing their return" - Of course the IRS is required to respond to specific questions and give opinions that are more likely wrong than right. "The IRS office does not charge for that service (their "services" are paid by your (and my) tax dollars)." - You get what you pay for - and I don't suggest that you get your tax advice at a "kiosk" nor a bulletin board - I suggest you merely READ IT FOR YOURSELF - not a big problem hey? "G. Toll-Free Tax Law Quality: Description: The percentage of customers receiving accurate responses to their tax law inquiries. This evaluates the customer (external), administrative (internal) and regulatory accuracy of this service. FY 2003 Performance: The goals for FY 2003 were set based on FY 2002 performance and anticipated score increases due to the implementation of the new Embedded Quality (EQ) process. The expected improvement from EQ was not realized, and IRS is conducting a rootcause analysis to determine the reasons why the outcomes were not achieved. - see( http://www.gao.gov/htext/d04126.html ) Furthermore you can review Title 26 of the U.S. Code Or you can google yourself to death - but it still ain't the law - Do it your way - | ||
| FAST FRED Rating: N/A |
" I suggest you merely READ IT FOR YOURSELF - not a big problem hey? " Reading over 35,000 pages of IRS gobbldey gook would take more time and effort than just earning mo currency. FAST FRED | ||
| Donald Lee Schwanke (Dontx)
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Do it your way, I still say let the COMPUTER read all 35,000 pages for you. | ||
| John MC9 Rating: N/A |
Niles - 1. The IRS agent stamped and signed the filing. 2. The CPA that originally filled out the forms for me had made some major mistakes on my form, in both calculation and what could or couldn't be declared as a gain, loss or deduction. The same CPA (no longer in biz; this was some years back), had a stack of filings for numerous clients that he had never gotten around to finishing, and never filed for a late filing.. He also caused a number of his clients to be audited, since he did not seem to know what could be claimed, or not claimed. The point made? A college degree, license, or any other accreditation, does not mean that the individual that has obtained it, is more intelligent or knowledgeable than anyone without the same college degree, license, or accreditation. Some of the best advice can come from those you least expect. | ||
| Stephen Fessenden (Sffess)
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I use turbotax to keep the records and get ready for the CPA. I always end up better off after a visit to the CPA. Sure there are CPAs and certainly other tax preparers that do not give value for the dollar. Especially watch outh for the "accountant" that does not acutally sign your tax return as preparer. I had one with Professional Management and only later found out the difference. A good CPA will fight the IRS if they try to change a letter ruling and probably be a lot more effective than an individual. Better than a letter ruling is to stay within preapproved standards. We used a preapproved retirement plan because it was cheaper and a sure thing. We could have gone with a more complicated one that allowed us to get a little more flexibility with a letter of approval for variations in the plan but would have had little benefit for a lot of possible headaches. If you want to use your bus for a legitimate business purpose there are ways to do it but please don't simply come up with a scam. Maybe you could be a travelling consultant in your previous line of work. | ||
| Stephen Fessenden (Sffess)
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Did the original question ever get answered. You can deduct the interest on a loan to finance your bus as interest on a second home. Yes you can do that, if you finance. The RV itself is not deductable just as your home is not deductable. | ||
| John MC9 Rating: N/A |
Thanks, Steve! |