| Author |
Message |
david anderson (Davidanderson)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, January 02, 2006 - 4:09 pm: | |
I would like to add 4 airbags to my Eagle 10 to help the torsalastics with ride height (secondary), but mainly with leveling when parked (primary). The archive threads on this board have been great help in the engineering of the air system. I have the mounting system designed in theory, but have no idea what size or type of bags to buy.
I checked out the Goodyear website and there are googles of types of airbags. Could anyone give me an idea how to ask for the correct bag. I plan on installing one on each dual and one on each steering axle, none on the bogies.
Thanks for you help.
David Anderson |
Tim (Timkar)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, January 02, 2006 - 8:05 pm: | |
Try this site
http://members.tripod.com/Pipesusmc/Kaykay.htm |
clark lane
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, January 02, 2006 - 10:55 pm: | |
David if you can get a Eagle model 15 parts books it will show you what you need with the part no. model 15 motor coaches had a air level system.good luck |
david anderson (Davidanderson)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, January 03, 2006 - 2:24 pm: | |
I have Pipes website bookmarked. Got most of my engineering from him. I need bigger bags than that since I will be using it to enhance ride height, too.
I don't know anyone with a 15. I may have to bug Norris at Jefferson for that.
Anyone got any other suggestions?
David |
callen
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, January 03, 2006 - 2:55 pm: | |
David I have the operators manual on a model 15 if it would help you it shows the setup and how it works I can copy it for and send it to you.Email me your adress if you need it luvrbus@yahoo.com |
Richard Bowyer (Drivingmisslazy)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, January 03, 2006 - 4:50 pm: | |
Check with the guys at Southern Oregon Diesel.
Richard |
Jim Shepherd (Rv_safetyman)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, January 04, 2006 - 9:10 am: | |
Hi David.
There are two major considerations when you choose the air spring. The first is capacity and the second is working height range.
I would think you will need a 12 inch rolling diaphragm air spring. That will give you a max load range up to 7300 pounds.
If you go back to the GY page and look at the tech specs for 1R12-256, you will find that it has over 19 inches of useable range (most offered by GY). That range will give you the most leveling range.
You can find the tech information at:
http://www.goodyearindustrialproducts.com/airsprings/pdf/1R12-256.pdf
That much range will, of course, have a taller operating height and may not fit into your design.
If you choose to use the air spring as a part of your “down the road” suspension, you will need to think about how to plumb the air and how much of the load you want to place on the air spring. By raising the bus a bit with the air spring you will be making it the primary suspension support component. If you do that, you should think about a system that isolates each spring for handling and also have an “open system” option for each axle with a large reservoir that increases the overall volume and softens the ride. This is done with electric solenoid valves that close at each spring for better handing and then open for soft ride.
I doubt that you will go this far, but the folks with OEM air springs might want to think about converting their system to a handling/soft ride plumbing system.
Jim Shepherd
Evergreen, CO
’85 Eagle 10
http://rvsafetysystems.com Toll Free: 1**888**349**0704
Bus Project details: http://www.rvsafetysystems.com/busproject.htm (updated 2/17/05) |
Jim Shepherd (Rv_safetyman)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, January 04, 2006 - 9:20 am: | |
David, one more thought. You say that you are not going to put bags on the bogey.
I have thought a lot about backing off my Torsilastics on the bogey and adding air springs for handling the load. That way, there is never an issue about having the bogey springs properly adjusted (just change air pressure – can be calibrated on a set of truck scales) and then being able to dump the air to get better traction or reduce the scuffing is a sharp turn while parking the bus in a tight spot.
Also, the air springs on the bogey will not drastically affect the great ride of the Torsilastic ride of the Eagle.
That does not address your plans, but might add to your thought process.
Jim |
T. (Bluegrass)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, January 04, 2006 - 2:06 pm: | |
David
would you please put It on the board when you figgure out what you are doing, I have been thinking about doing that very same thing to my eagle 10.
Thank You
Tony |
david anderson (Davidanderson)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, January 05, 2006 - 12:19 pm: | |
Thanks, guys.
Jim, I may need to converse with Catskinner. He did all this when he installed the Cat in the Eagle. He has some good road experience with it.
Was he at Arcadia?
In rereading your post I get the impression that the air springs need a reservoir of air to "inhale" some air out of the spring in a shock load. That is not something I took into account. Knowing nothing about air spring systems I figured you regulated the pressure you wanted to each spring and that's it. I kind of got that idea from reading all the archive material on "air bags" and "air leveling". Am I over thinking the engineering?
I really like the simplicity of
http://www.coachservices.com/
air levelling system. Four push pull valves. From the archive posts, those who have used it really like it. However, installation was on air bag coaches. I'm not sure if it would be different for the eagle or not. My thinking is I can load the air spring as much as I like by tinkering with the torsion beam height adjustment screws. Like you say though, I may change the ride characteristics by doing that.
Through experimentation, if it degraded the ride I could abort that and just use it for leveling only.
Off Topic: Being an orange blooded Texas Longhorn fan, I am just giddy that UT and Vince Young knocked off USC in the Rose Bowl. Texas fans really got tired of hearing the network media tell us how badly the Trojans were going to whip us. Since they said USC was the greatest team ever in the NCAA, what does that make the Longhorns? Hook em!!!
David Anderson |
R.C.Bishop
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, January 05, 2006 - 9:35 pm: | |
How about the 7 points they were "apparently" given?...hmmmmm. Maybe USC wasn't far off mark.
R.C.Bishop |
Jim Shepherd (Rv_safetyman)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, January 05, 2006 - 9:57 pm: | |
Well, I can tell that this will degrade to a football discussion (grin).
Yes, Catskinner was at Bussin' 2006 and I think he is taking a slow trip home.
David, what I was talking about is a control system that can be set up to change the suspension from a "handling" system to a soft ride system.
Basically, you would let the leveling valve (or mechanical valve) set the height of the air springs for a given axle. For a soft ride option you would let the two springs connect to a large reservoir of say the size of the wet tank on the bus. That would perhaps double the volume of the air in the spring and make it softer. Unfortunately, that would also let the air travel between the springs and let the bus lean quite a bit in a turn. This is not a problem on the typical highway.
For the handling option you would still let the leveling valve do its job and normally leave the system on soft handling. However, when you get into a twisting road situation, you would close the valve on each spring. That changes the volume to only the volume in the spring and raises the spring rate. It also would prevent transfer of air between springs. That tightens up the handling quite a bit.
I made this setup in my truck conversion and it did a pretty good job of giving me options of handling vs ride quality. Unfortunately, the while the ride got better, it never did approach the ride of a bus and thus I now have an Eagle.
Jim |
david anderson (Davidanderson)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, January 06, 2006 - 10:49 pm: | |
Thanks Jim, I now understand.
The more I think about this, the more I come to believe I'm just creating a bunch of work. I like to tinker with things and believe it would be really cool, but I may be disappointed. If I leave the torsalastics at the proper ride height, I cannot lower the bus below that height. Therefore, all my levelling would be made by raising the coach only. That would probably be ok, but is is worth the expense?
There have been a few times we've been unlevel, but not to the extent of overbearing annoyance.
I'll continue pondering for a while.
David Anderson |
T. (Bluegrass)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, January 07, 2006 - 2:27 am: | |
David
last summer we played a festival that James King was also playing and he had air springs on the eagle he was driving and when parked his rearend was about 2 ft high and the coach was leavel, so i would say that they are handy to have,
Tony |
Richard Bowyer (Drivingmisslazy)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, January 07, 2006 - 10:22 am: | |
Seems to me like a lot of trouble and lots of $$$$'s to obtain a leveling system. A hydraulic jack leveling system is much simpler and there is not much danger of it leaking down.
Richard |
david anderson (Davidanderson)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, January 08, 2006 - 8:40 pm: | |
I agree with you Richard, quite an impetuous gizmo to add to the coach. It's about as hard to justify as buying a, well, buying a bus. It just would be a cool thing to have. Shoot, maybe even make it bounce up and down like those low riders I see all around San Antonio. Crazy, but cool.
I'm still pondering, however.
David Anderson |