| Author | Message | ||
| Artboy
Rating: N/A |
Just to add to the starting fluid topic a few months back.. A couple of years ago we were burning weeds. I was using WD-40 in a spray can as an excelerant to do the dithes in patches. This worked great! The spred was nice and it didnt burn off until the weeds got going. nice even pace of about 1 Ft/sec I got 3 sections done with 1 to go when I ran out. The only stuff I had left was motor oil and starting fluid. I didn't have a practical way to apply the motor oil and the weeds were too damp to burn unaided, so I read the can of starting fluid. Sprays and is extremely flamable. "same as WD-40" I thought. (I have never even used ether before. It is NOTHING like isopropyl) I took the can and sprayed down the line. Put the can out of harms reach. Tossed in a match. BOOM! a fire ball rolled up out of the ditch. The whole patch went up in less than a second! (30ft) That stuff has a kick! Luckily Other than the OOOOH! factor it was uneventfull but I shall refrain from yard work with ether anytime soon! | ||
| Pat Bartlett (Muddog16)
Rating: N/A |
I'm wondering if I wasted my money buying that new lawn mower? Anybody else still use a lawn mower? I'm always the last one to find out about new methods and inventions.....! | ||
| PAUL COLLYER (Paso_1)
Rating: N/A |
Wow Pat you beat John with the daily comical answer. Hope Johns not under the weather.  | ||
| John MC9 Rating: N/A |
Gee, Artboy.....Where've you been? I thought everybody knew that ether burns like the sun in a ditch. (the devil made me type it) | ||
| Craig (Ceieio)
Rating: N/A |
Boy, I wanted to chime in here but after John's post, I've got nuthin'. :-) Craig - MC7 Oregon | ||
| Ed Jewett (Kristinsgrandpa)
Rating: N/A |
If you do it right you can save on haircuts also. Ed | ||
| Gary Stadler (Boogiethecat)
Rating: N/A |
I use it to clear black widows out from under my metal cabinets and benches (in my outside concrete work area). Hold a lighter in front of the can, push the button and woosh, no more spiders for about a 4 foot radius! Gotta be careful, but I really do this... | ||
| Joebus (Joebus)
Rating: N/A |
I found it to be an excellent produce to quickly remove a cylinder head off a small engine. Take out the spark plug, spray an excessive amount in. Replace the plug and press start | ||
| t gojenola
Rating: N/A |
Caution, please! I personally know two people who suffered greatly from that stuff: One who used it to spray torch a yellow jacket's nest under the eave of his garage. The fire department saved most of the structure. The other, more serious was a truck driver who had a can of the stuff rolling about under his seat on the way to Prudhoe Bay. Air seat bounced, can punctured, he lit up a smoke. His truck driving days ended forever, vehicle destroyed by fire. Have it around if you will but use it only in the manner and for the purpose intended. fwiw tg | ||
| Donald Lee Schwanke (Dontx)
Rating: N/A |
Well, I can do better than that! (can't most Texans?). A few years ago my 5 year old twin grand daughters were riding in the back seat of the car. They were always facinated by spray cans, bug spray, paint, or whatever. It was night and I suddenly smelled the strong smell of starter fluid, they had found my can in the back seat. Screaming at them to stop spraying it, when we stopped at their house I decided to show them why I had gotten so excited and mean. I sprayed a large dose of it in the middle of the residential street and threw a match into it. Brignt flames, loud "whoomp" convinced them to never play with that stuff again. The flame did not last long, but the hovering Topeka Police helicopter sure did! I asked them later about it, seems they have some sort of a heat sensing thingey, and they just could not figure out what that hot spot in the street was. What this has to do with buses is that if you are ever stranded, need to call 911, and have no cell phone, just dig out the can of starting fluid! | ||
| spencer6497 Rating: N/A |
You can also use it to get a tire to seal or get the beads to stay on the rim. Spray just a little in the tire (tire on rim) and throw a match that direction. It is a great degreaser and cheaper too. Just use in a well ventilated place and no sparks. | ||
| Gary Stadler (Boogiethecat)
Rating: N/A |
I might add that the tire thing does not apparently work on small tires.. I tried it with some little 12 inchers on my log splitter (couldn't get the things to seat for over an hour trying it mechanically) and with the ether all I succeded in doing was catching a tire on fire !DANG! Ended up my room-mate did it with a couple of concrete blocks... taught me a thing... But ether only works on larger tires, at least that's my experience... | ||
| Johnny Rating: N/A |
It works on a 13" car wheel/tire...and my boss still has the scars from the bead-breaker sparking & turning the tire into a fuel-air explosive. | ||
| Donald Lee Schwanke (Dontx)
Rating: N/A |
Might could happen I guess, but then again perhaps some clown filled it with acetylene, oxygen, or hydrogen since that was the only compressed air source he had? I would think the starter fluid would be pretty well consumed by the fire unless someone used a half can. Would be easy to blame it on starter fluid if you did not really know. | ||
| Richard Bowyer (Drivingmisslazy)
Rating: N/A |
It is not unusual to fill a tire with nitrogen and I can well imagine someone using a flammable gas to fill a tire in an emergency. Like Don, I really can not understand how you could use starting fluid to seat a tire and only consuming a portion of the fluid. For the record, and to avoid any flame war, I believe that Johnny's boss was injured. I am just not convinced that it was the partial remains of a shot of ether that did not explode when the tire was being seated. In my opinion that is like a half of a stick of dynamite not going off when the stick is ignited. Richard | ||
| Johnny Rating: N/A |
They ethered it so they could fill the tire with a hand pump...looks like they used too much ether (or it took several tries, or both). I can easily see it not all burning: the bead seated before it was all burned, and there wasn't enough oxygen remaining to burn the rest. It doesn't need much to fireball a tire. My boss still has scars & hearing loss from the explosion. | ||
| Donald Lee Schwanke (Dontx)
Rating: N/A |
I am still have trouble with this. So there was starting fluid left inside the tire, the hand pump added the oxygen needed for burning. So to explode one would have to put an ignition source INSIDE the still pressurized tire, since an opening would allow the oxygen and starting fluid to escape, burning harmlessly in the atmosphere. Come on guys, someone smarter than I explain it to me. Did your boss actually put the starting fluid in the tire in the first place or how did the starting fluid become the suspected factor? | ||
| Gary Stadler (Boogiethecat)
Rating: N/A |
Don, this actually happens. When ether is used to seat a tire, it's quite possible that as the bead seats, outside air gets cut off and there is no more oxygen to support combustion... there is still plenty of ether left inside though. Then the tire gets used... it gets low and gets filled with air, then gets low and gets filled with air.. etc. Eventually enough oxygen is re-entered into the tire this way to render the either inside explosive again (remember, ether will go boom from 2% to 47% mixture in air, so it doesn't take much) Now poor old Joe comes along when the tire is bald, and sticks it on his tire machine. If the tool makes a little spark as it pokes it's way inside the rim, or if Joe is smoking as the bead breaks, there's a good possibility that he'll experience a surprise boom... probably how Johnny's boss got hurt. It happens to lots of guys... And FWIW, check this link out... http://www.chemaxx.com/tirefire4.htm Click the photo for a real **************************OUCH**************** | ||
| Donald Lee Schwanke (Dontx)
Rating: N/A |
Rats, next you are going to tell me you should not smoke in a car that is using propane for refrigerant in the AC system. I guess this is another big plus for Alcoa rims, no sparks, no blowup. | ||
| Gary Stadler (Boogiethecat)
Rating: N/A |
Naw, smoke away !! If Darwin wants to take care of you, he will!! Propane as a refrigerant... heard of it being done and it's a very good refrigerant...until you get a leak... oops... but why???? | ||
| Donald Lee Schwanke (Dontx)
Rating: N/A |
Cause it is cheap! | ||
| Richard Bowyer (Drivingmisslazy)
Rating: N/A |
Gary, I think your example is an entirely different situation and could have easily been the situation of Johnny's boss. When using ether to seat a tire, the ether is sprayed in the open cavity where it immediately mixes with oxygen in the air. Once it is ignited, it all ignites, even if it has to blow the tire completely off the rim. At least that is my belief. Richard | ||
| Pat Bartlett (Muddog16)
Rating: N/A |
A little story to add to the fire. One of the facilities that I worked for had several large Carrier Water Chillers. They always break in the middle of the nite, morning which ever you want to call it, anyway the service man came in and he was late, his excuse was he had a flat tire (nail), He actually had a tire plug kit in the glove box. Of course this happened in the middle of no where to reinflate the tire he resorted to R22 Refrigerant, of course it was summer time, do I need to go any further with this....heat,pressure, tire.......heat, pressure tire,.........anyway gas (R22) expands under temperature, the tire grew.........and grew........and grew somemore......the right rear tire exploded, and blew the side out of the service van! He thought it was a good idea at the time! Other than soiling his pants, he was just fine.........This guy was an excellant service man!.......I don't think I ever viewed him with the same opinion after that! | ||
| Gary Stadler (Boogiethecat)
Rating: N/A |
Richard, I disagree... to burn a fuel, it takes a given amount of air (oxygen) and a given amount of fuel. Then there is a ratio of those depending on characteristics of the fuel, with limits within which the stuff will go boom. When whatever is burning or booming runs out of either fuel or oxygen, it will stop burning. So, consider a rediculous example of pouring a gallon of ether in a tire to mount it. Within the contained area of the insides of that tire, there is nowhere near enough oxygen to burn all that ether. So you light it... the vapors that have enough oxygen to go boom do so, the tire seats and instantly seals the insides from the atmosphere, whatever oxygen is left inside is consumed by burning just a bit more of the ether, and the flame goes out... leaving a lot of unburned ether inside, waiting for more air from the tire pump so it can hurt poor old Joe later on in life. Granted this is an overkill example but it's what happens to some extent if one puts too much ether in when seating a tire.... and there is no way to tell if you've used exactly the right amount without leaving any extra, which is why Joes get hurt later on... | ||
| John MC9 Rating: N/A |
The earlier tire sealant in a can used a flammable propellant that remained in the tire. Coulda' been anything in that tire; ether that or something else. | ||
| Donald Lee Schwanke (Dontx)
Rating: N/A |
I emailed the Michael Fox that was the self appointed expert at blowing up tires on that website, his email is not in service, cannot contact anybody there. Maybe one of his tests backfired. I was curious as to how they did that test, as Richard said, INSERTING flamable gas into the tire then giving a good flame method to ignite is not quite the same, but I can at least follow your scenairo Gary. Might make a great advertisement for Alcoas anyway. | ||
| Gary Stadler (Boogiethecat)
Rating: N/A |
Probably they ignited it the same way you ignite a acetylene balloon... with a sparkplug screwed into the rim, operated by remote control whilst standing a goodly distance away. Ever seen an acetylene balloon go off ? You fill it with oxygen and acetylene in the right mixture and light it, and it goes KaFrikkingBOOM !~! At the last mini-burning man I attended out in Nevada, a guy was lighting these things off. EVERY car alarm for about a mile radius was going off as well when the balloon went... makes ether look pretty lame... Here's a funny story 'bout that (it's NOT my story... one I found while researching these things) and don't try this at home even if you think you know how to do it, because the resulting shock wave will probably land you in jail these wonderful post-911 days. From the internet: "...if one decides to experiment with acetylene/oxygen, one should be aware of a couple of properties of the gasses that demand some respect. Acetylene and oxygen in combination is somewhat photosensitive. This means that bright sunlight can cause a permature detonation. Use due caution and dark balloons. Both gasses as delivered from their cylinders are extremely dry. Typical dewpoints are below -50 deg F. This dryness brings on the hazards of triboelectric static discharges. Tribo electricity is caused by the motion of dry, non-conductive gasses (or liquids). The hazard is that a static buildup could discharge and detonate the balloon while you are filling it. I use in-line humidifiers to saturate the gases with water. These are the kind used by medical oxygen systems. Never fill a balloon up front and personal. I've constructed a filling/detonating stand that has a nipple to slide the balloon down on, 2 fittings for the acetylene and oxygen and a spark plug for detonation. I fabricated the fixture from a steel plate, some tubing and a couple of welding gas fittings. I run a couple hundred feet of hose from the tanks to the fixture .... We sold helium and balloons, including a 16 ft diameter weather balloon used to hoist banners up in the air for grand openings and the like. We decided to fill one of those with acetylene and oxygen and detonate it. Somewhat aware (but not totally) of the energy involved, I welded up a little pipe on a stand that would hold the balloon and conduct the gases into it from tubing stretched back to the warehouse. That way I could fill and detonate it without ever having to approach it. The pipe also contained a spark plug that I fired with a neon transformer. I put the thing about 100 ft away from the building in the gravel lot behind the building. I filled that sucker to bursting and then stepped back inside the building to plug in the transformer. My medical gas saleslady wanted to stand in the doorway to watch the thing go off. When I plugged in the transformer, I thought for a moment that I'd blown up the whole building. The blast picked up my saleslady and pitched her backwards about 6 feet, fortunately into a crate of wiping rags. never seen anyone laugh and cry at the same time. It blew all the windows out of the building and cracked the concrete block wall facing the explosion. The metal stand, along with most of the gas tubing was GONE. So was the gravel and all the loose dirt in about a 50 ft radius around ground zero. It pretty much defoliated a nearby tree. I was impressed. When the cops came snooping around, I blamed it on a sonic boom. Damn, it was hard to say that with a straight face :-)" ...................... Cheers?? | ||
| John MC9 Rating: N/A |
Yeah - Cheers! (HAR) | ||
| John Jewett (Jayjay)
Rating: N/A |
If you don't have s spark plug and igniter coil, just use a light bulb. Yes, as regular 110VAC 40 to 100 watt bulb with a long extension cord. Break it and lay it inside the bag, To detonate just plug it in. When the filament goes white hot you have detonation. Cheaper than spark plugs too. A 30 gal. garbage bag will make a hole in soft loam large enough to put a wheelbarrow in. Breaks single pane windows at 200 yards. A 12 VDC system would probably work also, but I've only tried the 110 75 watt routine with acetylene/oxygen. No experience with ether or propane, but it should work as well with them. Bibliography?...try "The Anarchist's Cook Book." Certainly not at Barne's and Noble, but available on the 'Net. Cheers...JJ | ||
| John MC9 Rating: N/A |
I have much renewed respect for you, JJ!! | ||
| Pat Bartlett (Muddog16)
Rating: N/A |
Hey JJ have you ever cleared conduit that was plugged with either concrete or masonary mortal? | ||
| Donald Lee Schwanke (Dontx)
Rating: N/A |
For those closely following this thread, and just dying to make a garbage bag KA BOOOM on a budget, I will share some of my experiences. First of all, I learned it takes almost NO acetylene in the bag, just a touch, fill the bag the rest of the way with oxygen. Of course we are assuming you are doing this with an oxy/acetylene torch, just crack the oxy wide open, add a little acetylene during the fill. The best quick and dirty fuse I have found is simply a roll of AWP, commonly referred to as toilet paper. Tie the AWP around the bag tie, string it out a ways and light her up!. Ground craters are impressive, but the effect can be much more brilliant and noisy if you hang it in a tree (don't expect too much out of the tree after detonation though) | ||
| Ian Giffin (Admin)
Rating: N/A |
Oh. My. Gawd. Um... let's stop, ok? I think Homeland Security is watching this thread. Thanks. Ian www.busnut.com | ||
| PAUL COLLYER (Paso_1)
Rating: N/A |
Okay now that we are coming "clean" on past stupid things we have done. I will relate my winsheild washer bottle oxy/accetylene big bangs. Working in a shop we punched a hole in the bottle of a empty one gallon bottle of windsheild washer fluid. screwed in a spark plug with a 14 ga wire wrapped around the threads.(makes a super seal) You simply unscrew the top add oxy/acetylene (to your liking ) open the hood of a car lay the bottle in remove the spark plug wire off the engine, hook it to the bottle's spark plug attach the ground wire close the hood wait for someone to try start the car. Works as a great theft device except you have to deal with the mess inside the car from the thief. P.S. Ian It could have been a gas engine powered BUS then it would be okay to post eh! | ||
| Donald Lee Schwanke (Dontx)
Rating: N/A |
DAMN, what a wonderful idea! I just gotta try that. Will have to make some mods to make it sork on a diesel though. Shame on you for getting off topic, this is a bus board you know! | ||
| Richard Bowyer (Drivingmisslazy)
Rating: N/A |
Gary, I can positively assure you, based on actual experience, that if you put the least amount of "extra" starting fluid in a tire the resulting boom will blow the tire bead completely past the seating area and off the rim. We had to do this lots of times in the desert and it took quite a bit of experimenting to learn how to get enough starting fluid (or gasoline) in the tire to seat the bead. You ALWAYS start with the least amount and work your way up until you have enough to seat the bead. You really get a big boom if you add too much. BTDT. Richard | ||
| Donald Lee Schwanke (Dontx)
Rating: N/A |
I think Gary is leaving for Texas to pick up his first bus this year Richard. You know the thing that still bugs me is that even if the explosive mixture is inside the tire, the bead unseating will allow it to blow the mixture OUT, and even if ignited, will continut to blow OUT, not UP. Relate it to sparking the mixture at the end of an oxy/acetylene torch. IF the tire type explosion were to occur, then each time someone lights a torch, it would blow up the tanks and hoses. It don't happen that way though, it works like I had said. | ||
| Jarlaxle Rating: N/A |
"I am still have trouble with this. So there was starting fluid left inside the tire, the hand pump added the oxygen needed for burning. So to explode one would have to put an ignition source INSIDE the still pressurized tire, since an opening would allow the oxygen and starting fluid to escape, burning harmlessly in the atmosphere. Come on guys, someone smarter than I explain it to me. Did your boss actually put the starting fluid in the tire in the first place or how did the starting fluid become the suspected factor?" Chuck doesn't do stuff that stupid. The idiot that did it brought him the tire to replace it (the impact that knocked the bead off gouged the sidewall). He put it on the mounting machine, lined up the bead-breaker (this was an old one that required breaking one bead, flipping the tire, then breaking the other) against the tire, and hit the foot switch. His next memory was the paramedics showing up. Near as anyone can reconstruct what happened: Dumb and dumber tagged a curb, knocking a bead off. Since they had no spare, they seated it with too much ether, then pumped it full with their bicycle pump. They took the car to Chuck for a replacement tire, since theirs was damaged. He had a good used one in the shop, which they bought. He was dismounting the damaged tire with the bead-breaker, which sparked on the rim (steel on steel). BOOM! | ||
| Gary Stadler (Boogiethecat)
Rating: N/A |
Well, three things I'm glad about... One, I dont have any tires that were mounted with ether or ever had anything but air put in them.. Two, my engine starts easily every time no matter where I am so I never need starting fluid.. Three, I got a plasma cutter and no longer need (or have) and acetylene torch or tank around here. I never liked any of that stuff.. it's good to not have to use it anymore!! | ||
| John MC9 Rating: N/A |
How the *&^%$# you expect to set fire and blow up stuff? | ||
| Bruce Henderson (Oonrahnjay)
Rating: N/A |
PAUL COLLYER (snip) we punched a hole in the bottle of a empty one gallon bottle of windsheild washer fluid. screwed in a spark plug with a 14 ga wire wrapped around the threads.(makes a super seal) (snip) __. Well, of course, since I've always been known for good judgment, I've never been involved in anything as dangerous and poorly considered as anything like this but a spark plug makes an almost perfect seal in a 2-liter soft drink plastic bottle, too. I mean, I think ... um, not like I've ever *tried* it or anything. Just a guess -- honest. | ||
| John MC9 Rating: N/A |
hmmm... "Coca-Blowa", "Mountain Blew", "7-blowUp", "Dr. Popper"... Mine are always duds = "Snapple". | ||
| Donald Lee Schwanke (Dontx)
Rating: N/A |
Has that got anything to do with buses John? | ||
| John MC9 Rating: N/A |
Excuse me Don, but yes, it certainly does. It's as "on topic" as it possibly could be. | ||
| Donald Lee Schwanke (Dontx)
Rating: N/A |
OK then, just checking. | ||
| Marc Bourget Rating: N/A |
Gosh, anybody that participated in this thread runs the risk of being parked waaaaay out in the South 40 at the next rally they attend! LOL! | ||
| David Hartley (Drdave)
Rating: N/A |
I always either get parked in a hole or out behind the building on the street. Man I gotta paint my bus or bribe the parking people more... | ||
| H3-40 Rating: N/A |
Dave I know them well and they DON'T take bribes but I'll put a good word in for you if you want!! Ace | ||
| johnwood
Rating: N/A |
I'm suprised no one has mentioned potato guns mad of PVC pipe........... friend of mine uses the piezo sparker from a gas BBQ as a "trigger" and launches spuds and apples a looooong way. Very satisfying WHOOOMP too. | ||
| John MC9 Rating: N/A |
Potato guns are illegal in Ireland! | ||
| Dale Waller (Happycampersrus)
Rating: N/A |
I thought it depends on what caliber Tater gun? Can you get a concealed Tater gun permit? | ||
| John MC9 Rating: N/A |
Yes you can! But the salad shooter has got to go. | ||
| PAUL COLLYER (Paso_1)
Rating: N/A |
All Guns in Canada need to be registered.Mmmm I saw soldering guns getting registered etc... but not potato guns. | ||
| Richard Bowyer (Drivingmisslazy)
Rating: N/A |
I always carried my oxy/acetylene set to the desert with me. Used for repairs to sand rails during the day and playing with "tater" shooters at night. We found that a neutral flame that was snuffed provided the proper mixture for the shooters. Richard | ||
| johnwood
Rating: N/A |
The ether can is fuel of choice. One quick burst in a 3' x 4" pvc "combustion chamber necked down to 2" for the "spud" | ||
| Bryce Gaston (Busted_knuckle)
Rating: N/A |
Well I was just gonna LMAO at all the things ya'll have said here, but now that I'm back in the chair I got a couple to share with ya! Well we used to raise figure 8 pro-modifieds, one night the air compressor in the step van broke and I cut a tire, I didn't know it but the guys on the team sent a runner down to where I pulled off by the wall in the "safe zone" and told me if we got a yellow to come on in they had another tire ready for me. Well almost immeadiately they had a pile up in the cross over so I shot out of the track exit and into my pit they had the wheel off and back on before I could drink a bottle of water, car down everybody yell'n go go go, and push starting me down pit rd. Alls good right? Well last lap I was running 3rd and thought I can take these sucker in the cross over and win! Well not watching the other end like one ussually does to see what kind of hazard to expect in the crossover halfway into the turn I floored it rode the brake about a half a second let of and the car almost left the ground with all four tires launching on what shoulda been the perfect exit of the turn and my checkered flag. BUTTTT while the front end was still six inches in the air I got T-boned and spun with the tires off the ground, the instant that the tire caught the ground while the car was jerking in violent spin, it ripped the tire loose from the rim and exploded like nothin I (or most in the stands or pits) had ever seen! It caused the car which was spinning clockwise to spin a half turn counter-clock wise and roll onto the driver side (it was the right front that blew). Well by the time the wreck ended the checkered flag had all ready been dropped and everyone was tring to figure out WHAT THE HECK WAS THAT! (especially me!) Only while I was in the step van changing out of my racing suit did it come clear to me what happened I heard them using an impact gun to change the tire, but the compressor had blown a head gasket during practice and wasn't even hooked up! As I got out of the van I see a hose from the actelyne tank going to the impact! I asked "hey that tire ya'll put on was it low before you used it?" and they all said "not after we aired it up!" Go figure they aired it up with acetlyne! No wonder the damn thing exploded like a bomb! Now on a stupid stunt of my own not far from the same time this happened we had a junk yard at the wrecker service I drove for well we were cutting something off a truck when Rick the owners son says watch this! Then he puts the lit torch near the fill nozzle of a gas tank lay'n on the ground, an waavbooom it took off like a rocket! Cool I thouht so I said let me see that torch to try it my self and sure enough waavooom, kabooom, kaboom whoooosh,kabooom whooosh kabooom, kabooom kaboom kaboom! Yeah smart move I didn't even pay attention to where it was "aimed" it landed in a pile of tanks that had been stripped from cars that we'd just crushed & started the whole pile on fire! To make things worse we were only 2 blocks from a gas distribution out fit with about 15 of the huge storage tanks, and the fire marshall who lived caty corner from our back gate came running out his door thinking those tanks were what was exploding and could see everything down in our yard since his yard was on higher ground than our privacy fence! Needless to say him, our boss, the whole fire & police dept. and all the other peopple within several blocks were P O'd! Never did that again! Bryce aka; Busted Knuckle |