| Author | Message | ||
| Ed Jewett (Kristinsgrandpa)
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How much insulation does everyone have in their walls? Is it enough? What type is it? Inquiring minds want to know. Thanks in advance. Ed. | ||
| Gary Stadler (Boogiethecat)
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2-to 3 inches of spray foam from McMaster DYI kit It's perfect. | ||
| mike merrill (Mikemerrill71yahoocom)
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Gary I have been thinking of doing my own spray foam since I can find no one around here that will do it,what can youtell me about this spray foam that you used,prep,where to get it,how much did it take ect,thanks for any info, Mike | ||
| FAST FRED Rating: N/A |
Stock std GM fiber glass in vapor proof bags as Std from the factory. Works well down to about 0F where my lack of insulation over the windows makes 42,000 btu (input) need to operate most of the time. The window area on most coaches is the HUGE loss , not the walls . A floor can easily be insulated from the bay with an inch or 2 of R-7 sheeting , an insulation level not seen with non pro mfg foam. Does waste some space , but the center hanging hump is the size limit for carring full bay goodies anyway. How far below 0F , for how many months should be deciding factor for reinsulating needs. FAST FRED | ||
| mike merrill (Mikemerrill71yahoocom)
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Fred our orignal idea was for the stock look but the more we got into it the more rust and leaks we found so we looked at a lot of buses and decided to raise it and since we will be full time in it I do want to put the best insulation in it we can even if I have to travel somewhere to get it done but if a do it yourself kit will do a good job I will go that way,any thought or suggestions where to get it done appericated thanks Mike 79H8H-649 | ||
| Jerry Liebler (Jerry_liebler)
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Ed, No doubt spray foam is the best but next best is the foam board stock that's r7 / inch, not styrofoam. You can get 1 1/2 " in between skins of most of the wall & cieling. Since the structure is steel which is a very good heat conductor a 'thermal break' is really needed. I used, and suggest, 'strapping' at right angles to the ribs. I used 3/4" in cielings and 1/2" in walls. My strapping is strips, 2" wide, of plywood on 8 " centers. Between the strapping is more insulation. Sealing up all air leaks and vents is also very important. | ||
| Ed (Ednj)
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http://www.mcmaster.com/ 88 lb. 605 sq. ft. 9325K49 $741.46 It took 3 kits to do the entire bus. | ||
| Marc Bourget Rating: N/A |
Same kit, $685.00 from the following link, http://www.foampower.com/store/two_component/index.html The difference will probably pay your shipping! Onward and Upward, Marc Bourget | ||
| Ed Jewett (Kristinsgrandpa)
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I was just wondering about the difference between 1.5" and 2" in the walls. I know what insulation I'm going to use. I realize that the spray foam is the best but the difference between $2100 and $850 doesn't justify the gain of 1 R. Polyisocyanurate is R-13 for 2" and the spray in is R-14 for 2". Fiberglass isn't even an option, dismal R value and the fact that it is listed as a carcinogen eliminates it from the picture. Fomo in Norton OH (driving distance for me)sells 600' ($690) and 200' ($335) kits which would do my coach nicely but still is over $1700. ED | ||
| Marc Bourget Rating: N/A |
Any converter contemplating DIY Foam Kits should read the following link: http://homeenergy.org/archive/hem.dis.anl.gov/eehem/95/950710.html | ||
| Marc Bourget Rating: N/A |
Ooops, forgot to post first from preview page. . . You can get the above kit for $685.00 from the above link, the difference will probably handle the shipping. http://www.foampower.com/store/two_component/index.html Onward and Upward | ||
| Marc Bourget Rating: N/A |
Ed, FYI, The home energy link lists aged spray foam as R-6.0 | ||
| Gary Stadler (Boogiethecat)
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Mike, Mark is right on with his source. I used McMaster simply because they are close, I have an account with them and it was easier for me. It took me two sets to do most of my walls and roof, (it's a 35 foot bus) but I used a lot of single part foam in the lower walls where I couldn't get the 2 part sprayer in there, or where I wanted to go SLOW to avoid distorting my outside skin. The stuff expands like crazy and if it's put in a confined place it will blow it out easily. If you did a whole bus with just the 2 part stuff, I'd say plan on 3 kits. Prep? Not much other than masking everywhere you don't want it to go, and believe me it gets everywhere. Little teeny particles that stick to everything. So mask well. Also wear glasses at least, and not ones you're fond of. The little particles will kill a set of perscription lenses if they are plastic... I found out the hard way... And make sure you are either wearing a scuba tank or a very good respirator, and/or you have a decent fan blowing in one end of the bus and out the other... the stuff stinks nasty and is NOT good to breathe. I always work with the fan behind me and start as far away from it as I can, and work my way towards the fan, so I always have the freshest air I can. The foaming process is remarkably easy once you've squirted it for ten seconds, you'll "get it" and find it quite simple to do. Another comment on prep... you'll be burying everything when you foam and it won't be all that easy to get to when you're done... like wiring to your marker lights, cable runs, etc. Just make sure you have all that stuff done before you foam. I also lay in a few extra plastic conduits here and there so I can pull in wires or cables later if I want to... so far that has come in VERY handy with a few of my camera additions and stereo speaker relocations. Last, WELDING... get it ALL done first. When you see how horribly flammable exposed foam is, you'll really be happy you don't have any more welding to do around it. I made this mistake and had to actually weld on panels that had foam behind them... it works because there is no oxygen between the foam and panel to support combustion, BUT IT IS HAIRY to do. Just one little weld ball on exposed foam and you have a major fire before you can count to 3. So just be prepared with a CO2 and a buddie to help if you have to do any more welding after the fact.... Once it's totally enclosed it's a different story... it's a lot safer. FINISHING When you are done foaming, you'll have to figure out how to trim the stuff. I took a piece of 1" square steel tubing, bent it into a giant U, then stretched and welded a bandsaw blade across it's ends. This gave me a saw that would guide itself across rib surfaces and cut the foam between the ribs flush with them. Worked really well. For those places you simply can't saw, a grinder is the tool of choice, but oh god, what a MESS it makes!!! I made the grinder tool by punching three holes in a grinding disk and screwing three 1/4-20 bolts into it. It's a very NASTY tool, but excellent... http://www.heartmagic.com/FoamGrinderTool.JPG http://www.heartmagic.com/zzFoamJob.JPG | ||
| Sojourner (Jjimage)
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How much "R" between 1 1/2 to 2 inch depend which you choose. Hot-foam is more than cold-foam Close foam is better "R" then open foam. Read the below links. About $1000 at their shop or more at your place. Maybe more now, above price was 5 years ago. It Spray Polyurethane Foam - (SPF) Look for large semi trailer van shop and ask for hot-foam phone #. Or contact them for location nearest to you. Equipment; http://www.sprayfoam.com/cdps/majorcat.cfm?cid=7&maj=Contractors Information about hot-spray; http://www.sprayfoam.com/spps/ahpg.cfm?spgid=9 Many common FAQ; http://www.dwyersspecialty.com/faq.htm http://www.polyurethane.org/about/applications/industry/TPU_Equipment.asp As of today, all above sites is active. Once you drive or ride in someone bus shell with hot-foam to compare the solidness of inserted sheet foam bus shell, you will want hot-foam version. Cold foam is softer & weaker R-valve per inch than hot foam. Remember all aluminum clad foam sheet is made via hot-foam method. So hot-foam bonds better than cold-foam. Bottom line is you have to learn how must spray is too much….waiting 20 min to see if right thickness. That where professional come in and more lightly you will waste more then pro worker. Seen it done and it hard to see while spraying…..very messy…wear head cover & scarf over face to protect burning on skin…wear throw-away over-all clothes. Take your coach to their business will lower cost and better yet go to where they doing foam elsewhere while machine is all set-up to do another job….your coach. You can drive it home after hour of foaming and with fresh air vent open. Take about 12 hrs to finsh gasing. Wish you well. FWIW Sojourn for Christ, Jerry | ||
| mike merrill (Mikemerrill71yahoocom)
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THANKS GUYS,as allways great info,willdo spray foam for sure now but will try to find someone nearby for the hot foam as this seems to probally be the best way to go,from what I see here and past posts I found it appears to be cheaper than 3 kits,thanks marc if I cannot find someone local to spray it then will go with foampower they have the best price I have seen so far,again for all of the info Mike | ||
| RJ Long (Rjlong)
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Mike - Check in your area to see if there are any 18-wheeler trailer repair facilities. If so, find out if they fix refer units. If they do, talk to them about having the guy that spray foams the trailers also do your coach at the same time. HTH, RJ PD4106-2784 Fresno CA | ||
| Gary Stadler (Boogiethecat)
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One BIG advantage to doing the foam yourself is that you can do it at your leisure. I found that doing some of it, working on that area, then doing some more was quite beneficial... especially when I figured out some "whoops's" after the first round. I wouldn't have wanted to have anyone do the whole bus for me and then find out a month later that I had to rip a bunch of it out to do something i either forgot or decided to change... absolutely worth the extra dollars for the kit, at least to me... | ||
| Tim Strommen (Tim_strommen)
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I'll keep posting this so long as people keep asking about R-values and heat loss. Heat Calculator (MS Excel spreadsheet) designed by me for this board (hosted and delivered as a self-exctracting zip file by the kindness of John Behr): http://www.behrden.com/bus/heatcalc_v2.1.exe MS Free Excel viewer (from Microsoft Webpage): Excel Viewer Keep in mind that the three biggest killers the whole insulation design are: 1) windows, 2) roofs, and 3) floors. The average fully insulated 35' rig will need at least R-9 on all surfaces to be economical to heat/cool - but will still require between 20kBTU and 50kBTU. Cheers! -Tim | ||
| sylverstone (Sylverstone_pd4501864)
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friend of mine has a stock trailer (think cattle) that he raised the roof on, and converted the front half into an rv. hauls his blacksmith shop in the back. it's kinda my crash space when i go visit him. it's been spray foamed, cost a couple hundred bucks because he brought it in while they were doing other things. let me tell ya, the insulation is really nice, but the sound deadening is wonderful. one night there was a bit of an issue with a 4 legged intruder... and i didn't hear the 2 shots from the .45 ... and i was awake reading a book... yes, you'll lose some wherever you have windows, etc, but i cannot even remotely see a better solution. sure, i can do the "2 layers of r7 and then sprayfoam the cracks" thing, but then you have condensation behind the panels, etc. and the sound deadening factor is mothing like the same. i'm going to be stripping out everything in mine, then i'll add in horizontal "screw stuff to it" strips, then i'm going to sprayfoam the entire thing. until it's flat. they make a slow rise foam that i can fill walls with, so i may put the panels up first and then use that, at least for the walls. my take on it is that the better i do the insulation job, the less energy i have to spend to heat and cool the bus, and a window open for a little breeze beats running the generator for ac, hands down. most of your heat rejection and escape is going to be the windows, but the roof is a big deal as well. that and for the weight, you can't beat it for sound deadening. my bus is a labor of love and i already know it's going to cost me a lot of money. seems to me that, relative to the cost of everything else, the sprayfoam is the best bang for the buck. -dd | ||
| Dave Smith Rating: N/A |
Best prices I found were at Polyfoam in Richmond CA. Late Oct. 2005 200 Board Ft kit $195 600 Board Ft kit $495 Remember these standard sizes are optimal yields requiring optimal temperature. At less than ideal temperatures I got only about 60% yield from these kits. http://www.polytechfoam.com/index.php? | ||
| FAST FRED Rating: N/A |
When doing refrigeration in boats , we found the pro made sheet foam to be far more effective than kit foam. The foam MUST be free to expand easily in every direction in order to have a low enough density to get a fair R value. For a coach I would chose 1 inch sheet foam held in place with Good Stuff or someother aftermarket squirt can stuff. 2 layers on the walls and 3 on the overhead will be about as much as needed for the usual camper temperatures. IF you can cover the ribs too, you will be far ahead in getting rid of another insulation leak. FAST FRED | ||
| Marc Bourget Rating: N/A |
FF, How would you handle curved and compound curved situations? Single plane curves would seem to benefit from "V-ing" the inside supplemented with hand held cans, but compound curves would appear to be problematical! A combination approach? | ||
| John MC9 Rating: N/A |
Home Depot had very thin sheets of foam insulation. The sheets bend very easily, and can be "stacked". | ||
| FAST FRED Rating: N/A |
John has the idea and I would test weather PL or Gorilla type glue would disolve the insulation. If it doesnt damage the insulation , it with a bunch of pins as clamps should allow a rapid build up of the required thicknesses. Sheet goods will not require the sanding & huge dust hassles of spray foam. For the finest light weight interior job either Nadia Core material or Tricel could be used to construct what is usually 2x4 and plywood. Sound insulating , stiff and really light, NOT at Home Depot pricing. But if you want to climb (and stop) on the big hills its faster with a stock 200HP 8V71 and 22,000 lb coach than 350hp and 50,000 lbs. Milage is better too, Light is great , but it sure ain't CHEAP! FAST FRED | ||
| Marc Bourget Rating: N/A |
"Nadia Core material or Tricel"? Examples? Links? I've thought for years of constructing a "composite" wall using unfaced foam and a surface material. Is that what you're suggesting? | ||
| John MC9 Rating: N/A |
Most glues won't adhere to (most) standard foam boards, but you can use small dollops of spray can foam to fasten the foam board to anything else. | ||
| Rusty Thompson (Rusty)
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I spray foam... well the company I work for has a hot foam machine and when they do spary foam some times I end up doing it. First off it nasty it sticks to everything, you need a special resperator to filter out all the bad stuff and a full body suit to keep it from burning you (130) degrees out of the gun and to keep it from sticking to the skin (when it does it takes all the hair with it). About the cost to the customer I'm far away from that end of things but I do know it only costs about 20 bucks a gallon, its the machine that costs all the money. So if your going to get it done look around and hagle. Like I said it's only 20 bucks a gallon so if they give you a discount their not going to the pore house. |
