| Author | Message | ||
| captain ron (Captain_ron)
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I just got my wabesto (have'nt opened it yet) but I need to make a hot water heater for it and also want to use inta hot's. can I plumb all together or do I need to bypass one when other is in use? also to make a hot water heater for my wabesto can I make a several gallon tank and make a water manifold on each side and run several copper lines through it to heat my water? or will this not heat the water enough or cool the water too much for the rest of my heating system? | ||
| JW Smythe (Jwsmythe)
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Here's some more ideas for hot water, just to add to your chaos.  1) A heat exchanger with the engine coolant too... As long as you're driving, or have in the last couple hours, you'll have over 200 degrees. 2) The same as #1, except from your generator coolant (assuming it's liquid cooled) 3) Solar panel on the roof, like for a home water heater or swimming pool. In any case, you'd want to check and see how each heater regulates itself. As long as it won't try reheating the already hot water, I wouldn't see any reason you couldn't use multiple heat sources. But, if you've already heated your water to 120F (or whatever you want to set for), it would suck if the next device was blindly heating. Then you'd quite likely come out with boiling water and/or steam, and if you have any plastic or rubber, melted plumbing. I haven't really looked into any of these much more than "hey, there's heat there, why can't we use it." I see no need to make more of something, when there's already plenty of it around. We just have to move it to where we want it. | ||
| Tim Strommen (Tim_strommen)
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Keep in mind that Glycol laden coolant is harmful to consume - build in ample isolation from potable water systems. I've seen it mentioned somewhere (rats, my mind is going...) that using a heat exchanger from a webasto circuit to the pottable water circuit is a good idea (better efficiency than double lining the water pipes in a water heater's holding tank). This would make me think like this: Engine Water circuit - don't want to increase the risk of this system opening, 'cause it could leave you stranded somewhere with a molten engine block. Pottable Water circuit - don't want to increase the risk of this system opening, 'cause it could kill you and your friends (or at least ruin a good trip). Leaves me to think that the ideal way to run a system like this is to use a heat exchanger for each circuit you wish to heat, and put in A/B valves to select or bypass circuits you intend to heat. If you put in the facilities for a circulation pump - with some planning, you could take engine heat in moderation to heat the Webasto circuit and pass the heat to the water heater circuit. You'd probably want to also put in some "boiler check valves" to make sure super-heated water doesn't circuate back into other areas. Pressure relief is also a good idea - make sure if the system has a problem, it doesn't burst a line and send scalding water over the interior of the bus. Provide a weak point somewhere safe (like a downward facing outlet in the center of the bottom surface of the bus - this will keep people on the outside of the bus from getting shot with hot water too...). Remember, you're building a system where you are putting an awful lot of energy into a physical medium - making it safe can be hard but is improtant. Cheers! -Tim Strommen P.S. I gotta say, I've been watching your progress with amazment (at your progress) and disgust (at mine...). Great work so far! -T | ||
| R.C.Bishop
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Ron....at the risk of being further adversarial.... it's a WebAsto. (as opposed to WebEsto). Please accept with good intentions.... Once more, if you will contact David Haynes, he'll be glad to give you all the information you could possibly want....FREE! And probably make some good suggestions for your system. Not connected in any way, just tryin' to be of help. FWIW RCB '64 Crown Supercoach (HWC) FWIW RCB | ||
| Gary Stadler (Boogiethecat)
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I've used the engine coolant-heat-exchanger idea in 5 vehicles now. It works super well for the intended application... (1) My first bus was used to go to the ren. faires with, which was a 12 hour drive. We took friends and shared the driving. The bus was never much of a living space, more a combination truck/friends/way to get there. I used a shell & tube heat exchanger in the engine coolant to heat water, thru a tempering valve and into the shower. So I'd drive the first 6 hours of the trip, a buddy would take it from there while I took a nice long shower and then went to sleep. Worked wonders. (2) the remaining 4 vehicles were just cars and trucks. Same shell & tube style heat exchanger. We'd go to a campground for the week with a bunch of friends. Hook the heat exchanger up to the camp's water faucet and the output to a showerhead. When it was shower time, I'd simply start the car or truck, run it at idle, and as many people as wanted could take nice warm showers. Usually the line was 20-30 people!!! We'd run it for a couple hours a day... didn't take much gas but the expense was certainly worth the points I got for providing warm showers to an otherwise cold and dirty bunch of friends!! (not to mention fun with the usual shenanigans that went on with a bunch of nekked people ) Beyond that, I've considered it for a living-type bus and it never seemed to fit in. With a decent shell-tube heat exchanger I doubt mingling of the waters would occur so safety that way is not much of an issue in my mind. But other than for infinite showers, it just doesn't seem to fit in with an RV lifestyle.... | ||
| captain ron (Captain_ron)
Rating: N/A |
I will never use onboard water for drinking or cooking. I carry drinking and cooking water that I buy. is the water heater I propose to build gonna work? | ||
| niles steckbauer (Niles500)
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Ron, Using convection, and without the need of a circulatimg pump, this can be done with any standard electic/gas water heater - will one of these work for you? http://www.freeheatmachine.com/pdf/hotwatersheet.pdf also here are some pics of similar installations http://www.ki7xh.com/camph2o.htm http://www.ki7xh.com/campheat.htm | ||
| Jim Stewart (H3jim)
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Ron, I have a Seaward 11 gal heat exchanger, with an electric element for a back up heat source. I highly recommend it. has pressure relief valve already in it, compact etc. You do have to make sure the PH of the webasto coolant is maintained properly as the tank is aluminum, and will corrode if too acidic. I installed a coolant filter in the webasto circuit that also corrects ph, just change it once a year. Sounds like you're doing a great job, keep up the good work and keep us posted. It fun to see your progress! | ||
| JW Smythe (Jwsmythe)
Rating: N/A |
Tim, > Engine Water circuit - don't want to increase the > risk of this system opening, 'cause it could leave > you stranded somewhere with a molten engine block. I was talking about the WVO thing with a trucker friend of mine. I go to the point of talking about preheating the oil so it was more fluid. He told me that big trucks he had driven up north had engine coolant warming up their fuel tanks already. So, this circuit already exists. It's an ordered option, and he doubted that buses have it, but it's possible. He ran into the problem you suggested though. It blew a coolant line near the fuel tank. He thought it was diesel fuel, so he shut it down and got away from it. The repair guy showed him it was a coolant, and then explained why it was there. These particular vehicles had a shutoff, which the repair guy just shut off for him. They left it on year round. In the winter, it keeps the diesel fuel from congealing. In the summer, they claimed it gave them better efficiency. It could be that they didn't want to bother turning it on and off for the weather, or forgetting to turn it on in the winter. So, ya, the risk exists that you could have a broken line, and dump your coolant. The risk is already there if the vehicle already has that option. I'd say, if you were to do it for tap water, run a copper loop around the feed line for the heat exchanger. Then you'd need both of them to leak for it to be a problem. Of course, if it did happen, that would be a fatal problem, so that is a big consideration. | ||
| Tim Strommen (Tim_strommen)
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Ron: Yes the type of heat exchanger you're describing is very easy to build - but touchy to implement based on the materials you're suggesting. I'd probably consider getting a COTS (Commercial-Off-The-Shelf) heat exchanger made for exhaust gas like the one Polar Power Inc. has. JW: On my particular vehicle, the fuel heating is done by the fuel system itself. All of the fuel that MUI injectors don't use goes to a return line and back to the fuel tank. This constant circulation of fuel eventually warms up the tank (the reverse works in the summer - cool how old things were thought of more as systems...) The cooling system I was referring to is the more common of the cooling systems (aka. tapping the radiator lines or water jacket ports in the block) If you >rupture< (not just a little trickle) your main cooling system it will melt down a 2-stroke if it continues to run (the movable water will be pumped out of the system and the rest will boil off - your fuse plugs will melt, and your block may never start again) and if it's "off" when the systems leaks - you're not moving. Cheers! -Tim Strommen |