| Author | Message | ||
| Dave Wilson
Rating: N/A |
Should i be considering newwer coaches or stay with what i now.Keep on putting money into the old coaches many of my friends down south are running new coaches with big payments have a 9 or 2 hide out back when now one even the guy from cat with the lap top can get running im happy with old coaches but the groups chartering want the fancy coaches put kits on the exterior new interiors will series 50 fit in . | ||
| truthhunter@shaw.ca Rating: N/A |
Have you considered "re billing" your charters as Historical or Classic Coach journeys, just like the old days? I am acquainted with a outfit that does a"limo operation" and some how he has repackaaged his niche in the market in this way. Every time he ads another coach he searches for a "good MC 8 and modernizes and limoizes it at great expense", claims that is what his clients prefer this to what he was doing. | ||
| John MC9 Rating: N/A |
Uhhh.. "Should i be considering newwer coaches............." [or] "...........Keep on putting money into the old coaches " Didn't you answer your own question? Do you really want to pour more of your revenue into repairs? Or would you rather pay some payments to acquire newer buses that don't need constant repairing, and are more desirable for your clients? | ||
| Dave Wilson
Rating: N/A |
John Mc9 Iguess what i am saying is with the newer coaches i would not know how to trouble shot and would be having to pay outside help every time we did have trouble and the new machines do have lots of problems .I am kind of answering my own questions but kind of wondering if there is other operators out there asking and answering the same questions. | ||
| John MC9 Rating: N/A |
What I found as a driver of charter coaches, is that the customer cares less about aesthetics (the look of the coach), than they do about the trip the driver takes them on. An ugly bus with a decent driver, can bring heaven on earth, to the weary traveler. (If your customers are happy, that's all that counts!) | ||
| FAST FRED Rating: N/A |
"If your customers are happy, that's all that counts!" And the EASIEST way to impress your customers , no matter the age of the coach, is SPOTLESSLY CLEAN! " putting money into the old coaches " Compare your payments for a full year of maint with the payments to the Banksters AND the usual ongoing maint your friends are paying. Your coaches are getting better & better with almost ZERO deprecation, theirs are getting older & older and loosing value day by day. You decide,after all CLEAN!!!!! is cheap. And there are no payments due the Banksters in the slow season. FAST FRED | ||
| Bill K Rating: N/A |
I can relate to this in the excavating business. A lot of my competition is in debt big time. My equipment is older but well maintained and looks good. Most of the people I work for has no idea how old it is, many think it is new. I have no payments and what little expense I have I can deduct in hole and not have to deprecate over a number of years. Also not having the new value I do not have to insure as heavy so that is less expensive. Also I can work a little cheaper if I chose. Now don't get me wrong if I was younger or if my son was interested which he is not, ( now in college) I would be doing more updating, but with only a few more year to go, why?? So I would say how long do you plan to stay in the bus business, if a long time, you will have to up date sooner or later, it is your call when that time is right for you. | ||
| Marc Bourget Rating: N/A |
Bill, Just a reminder in case you didn't consider the following . . . keep in mind, in a rare occasion, where you have a total loss (hope you don't) that the replacement coverage of amortized equipment can be problematical. You won't be compensated for your responsible maintenance. You'll just get paid what typical equipment markets for. You'll be faced with the decision of "moving up" to new stuff or buying old and refurbishing. | ||
| DMDave Rating: N/A |
Dave, what Bill and Fred relate are very true, Its a real pain but people really notice a clean, shiny, vehicle no matter its age. But there are model changes that instantly date your "fleet" truck or van as you know. Maybe you could get a older used bus with the new look if possible. All the older coaches were painted, then came the silversides, then painted, now pysco-crazy swirl paint and grapics. Dont forget the wheels, our coach is OLD but painting the rims and doing up the tires everybody notices. Good luck. | ||
| Mark R. Obtinario (Cowlitzcoach)
Rating: N/A |
Fast Fred has hit the nail on the head one more time. The vast majority of passengers really don't care about how old or new a coach is. The two things the passengers care about is if the coach is clean and if the coach makes it there and back without any problems. One big problem in the coach industry is the people who book the charters many times require the bus to be only so old. They don't care if the bus is in good running condition, their only care is if the bus is new. The other big problem is the insurance industry is becoming very picky about what they will and won't insure, particularly if you are a smaller operator. When my MC-7 was needing some major engine work I decided to upgrade to a Setra S215 with a Series 60 in it. With the Setra I no longer had to hassle with the insurance company every year at renewal time and my payments were covered by the savings in fuel and oil. I went from an oil change every 3K miles with two-three gallons added in that 3K miles to an oil change every 10K withn no oil added between changes. I went from 4-7 MPG to 7-11 MPG. And even though the bus was not brand new, visually the bus didn't look old. You have to decide what will be the decider for you. The coach industry is a very hard business in which to be successful. Anything that can give you a leg up on the competition may end up being the difference between success and failure. Good luck. Mark O. | ||
| john w. roan (Chessie4905)
Rating: N/A |
Ahhh... the life long dilema of all of us as to some item or other. Cars, boats, houses tools, you name it. I did notice at the FMCA conventions that when running shuttle busses, the people would always want on the newest coaches first, unless it was raining or something.Tour busses are somewhat different, of course. Cleanliness is of the first interest, however I beleive most riders still would prefer the newest rides, although that is not usually their choice when choosing a tour. I do recall people complaining about our local bus company when they used to keep running the older models when the other charter co.'s had newer rides. Some would avoid the local charters if they could go to the same place with the other outfits.A rider's first impression is looking at the bus and they can usually tell how old it is.Our bus nut's opinions is a little biased on this as we like the older units in good condition. | ||
| truthhunter@shaw.ca Rating: N/A |
If you are dead set on the appearance of what the Joneses' are offering you might look http://www.mcicoach.com/fyiFromMci/archive.htm through MCI archives for a article I viewed about the latest on remaking the old to look new. No idea on the detailed cost effective calculations you should wish to include in your decision making equation, but this may be one way to consider if you do not wish to jump into bed for a very long time with the lenders and the "brand spanking new coach" option that only works with high volume use and low interest payments. $actually it works all ways for the lender as do there clients$ As you can tell I am biased towards Reuse/Recycle/Reduce budgets as they tend to lend themselves to the most freedom in how I conduct myself over this course of survival. If it were my shoes , I would exhaust my first line of research on the repackaging what is already on the shelf and when the very detailed guesstimate business plan ended up in the red, only then would I reset the "logistics plan making machine" in $Buy New$ mode I am guessing these "ya to the new sayers" are just thinking -yes - more used coaches for use to acquire. After all that is what we are all programed to believe "this is what keeps the consumption economy afloat" | ||
| Jarlaxle Rating: N/A |
I agree with my boss. He owns half a dozen wreckers, only one newer than 1987, and none with less than 300,000 miles. The savings in payments ($70,000+ for a new wrecker), insurance, property taxes, and service costs (there is almost nothing we can't fix ourselves) is a good thing. (The call I got to tow another company's 2-year-old F-450 hoist truck with a 30-plus year old F-800 rollback was an entertaining one.) | ||
| FAST FRED Rating: N/A |
"But there are model changes that instantly date your "fleet" truck or van as you know" Sure it does for Bus Nuts and mechanics , but most passengers dont have a CLUE! The only thing that may date the coach from the Pax point of view is the presence or absence of vidio or other entertainment. "One big problem in the coach industry is the people who book the charters many times require the bus to be only so old". This is more of a tourist problem where a travel agent books a tour in Euro land. The folks there EXPECT a as new fancy interior, TV , talking stewardess tour guide , games, so the Euro coaches are built light and tossed away after a few seasons,(or exported for RV conversion). The Euro transportation system is built on State Subsidized Rail , so there is no need for sturdy 3,000,000 mile busses. FAST FRED | ||
| JW Smythe (Jwsmythe)
Rating: N/A |
Fred, You get the same with air travel. Customers are happier on the newer Airbus with TV's in every seat. Hell, I'm one of those happy customers. Delta started trying it with their "Song" flights. They retrofitted TV's into some old uncomfortable planes. The seats are still uncomfortable, but they have TV and onboard games. I'd rather fly on a newer plane than an older one. Hell if I know the difference in engines or performance, I want to be comfortable. I joked about getting an old cargo plane for an RV for a while. Well, half joked. There are problems with the idea, such as the fact that you'd be living at an airport that could support large planes, and flying one that big is freakin' expensive. Now, I'm trying to convince my girlfriend that after we're on the road with the bus for a while, we should buy an old ocean going freight ship to extend the concept. I've already told her that it would need to be able to park the bus in. We looked around, and they're priced in the millions, so it'll take me roughly (doing some quick math) 140 years to save up for the ship itself.  It's a neat dream though. We take the landing craft out, pick up the bus, bring it to the ship, and travel to our next destination. Where in the world may I be camping next week? Hey, if I can afford a 250 foot freight ship, why can't I get a 60 foot landing craft to go with it? | ||
| truthhunter@shaw.ca Rating: N/A |
works for me, which ever comes first - that very rich girlfriend that also has a need to explore & observe (surplus ships/Hercules STOL freighter or if we live long enough v/STOL surplus freight birds, or alternatively remaining at the self servos pump and doing the Alaskan/Siberian land bridge when it gets built. Either way the current shortage of exploring bucks far exceeds the drive and explore sites (that await all our observations & occupations) that have existing suitable access roads in our Western hemisphere. I am very patient for the right reasons. Ps- trying to remember on the original topic- those MCI face lifts I was trying to guide you to for repackage/update or indenture to the bankers are located in the special deal feature pages in the parts/service section, it couldn't have been more than a few months back and they listed the prices for installation at the Illinois faculty if I recall correctly. | ||
| Bryce Gaston (Busted_knuckle)
Rating: N/A |
Well being in the charter business I can relate very well on this issue, yes keeping a bus clean and shiney helps tremendously! But many colleges and travel brokers will ask for the insurance papers which tell the year of manufacture right on them, and even though they've been on and were impressed with the bus will turn us down for service due to age limitations on the equipment in their contracts! Then they charter newer but less maintained equipment which occassionally leaves them stranded and they think "Oh my thank heavens we didn't use that older bus if one this new breaks down!" which really gives those of us maintaining good looking and very sound equipment an unfair black eye! But I do love it when I get a call to go assist them after the break down and show up with "that older bus" to take them on, or at least get them safly off the road while repairing the newer bus! It's priceless to be able to point out even newer stuff breaks(that's why they have warrantys), and to be able to smile at them while serving them while they are feeling bad for knocking your equipment's age before the break down! Service with a smile is the sweetest revenge and does lead to future calls! One college begged for help when the football team bus broke and couldn't even get the luggage bays open to get there gear out, but after all the begging, pleading offer what ever $ it took just to please come rescue the team that flat out said they wouldn't ride that old crap if it was all that was available to our faces! To have to tell them it'd already been chartered by a group of fans! Going to the game! To top it all off as I went by them at the point off break down they were loading on to an old un-airconditioned school bus! And at the game the head coach still tried to get us to take the team home! But when I asked about the rest of the season he said he'd already awarded the contract and couldn't back out of it! I just politely smiled and told him I already had a bus load of fans to transport home, that had already paid, and were happy with our buses! So yes age can hurt but at the same time if kept up theres no reason why you can't work them! Maybe not as much as the high priced newer units that actually can cost more to maintain while still making high payments also! I say go with what ya can afford to run, keep 'em in top shape mechanically and shiney and you'll have yer fair share of business especially after the high priced units all book out at cut throat prices and then everybody needs a bus at the same time you can have your cake an eat it too! Knuckle | ||
| Dave Wilson Rating: N/A |
Just what you said has happened many times rescue those big window pingpong balls and there passengers with the old but reliable. But when they go to book that long haul again they forget who and what saved them on the side of the highway when it was 45 below .They just care about the looks.So what ive done ive pulled out the old tvs put in 5 flat screens sorround sound and making plans with Rich from Ibp for a ping pong kit for the charter unit,they have given me a contact installer Edm.Alta will keep every one posted on how things progress . This is one of the reasons why i looked for a conversion site on the webb is to learn from people like your selves to doll up the old girls iam sure one of you fellows might wander up the mackenzie hwy durring the tourist season and need my assistance and i will be happy to. | ||
| JW Smythe (Jwsmythe)
Rating: N/A |
Oddly enough, I am a fan of older things, even though I do understand and agree with the perspective of "give me creature comforts." If plans go the way they look like they're headed, I may be passing through there sometime in the summer of 2007 in my bus, with all the creature comforts installed. | ||
| Dave Wilson Rating: N/A |
Be sure you stop by and say hello were located 114klms this side of Yellowknife 290 klms after crossing the Mackenzie river heading north watch out for the buffalo make an awfull mess of those pingpong balls. | ||
| JW Smythe (Jwsmythe)
Rating: N/A |
Dave, I'll be posting up here when we hit the road, with locations to watch our cameras and GPS tracking. That way, anyone can send us a note saying "Hey, you're close, stop by!" Our maps won't always be realtime, since we can't have cell service all the time. Rest stops will catch the site up via satellite, unless I can find a solution for keeping the satellite link up while driving. My girlfriend suggested that I make the cams and map not completely public. It'll probably be a simple free registration, just so anonymous users won't get into it. | ||
| Dave Wilson Rating: N/A |
It your heading north via Mackenzie Hwy#3 you will have cotinuse cell service untill you get out of Highlevel Alberta heading north no service again untill you get to Enterprize N.T wieght scale only works in the parking lote.For the next 6 hours to yellowknife no service .Last chance for cheap Fuel Highlevel Alta, Shell truck stop on your right just as you get in.Just before you get to Enterprize N.T there is three sets of waterfalls quite nice.Ferry crossing shuts down at Midnight about 3 hours cruising from Enterprize N.T to the ferry crossing.Dont suggest traveling at late`evening between ferry crossing [Ft Providence] even thow it doesnt get real dark hard to see Wood Bison.Some travel tips. | ||
| truthhunter@shaw.ca Rating: N/A |
Here you go, just what I was talking about , repackaging your coach to look new. Ok not really what I meant, I was talking about repacking your service as classic or vintage as that was the cheapest new thing one could try. But anyhow, here you go, makeovers for D model coaches (as you didn't mention what models you are running) if your coached are betweeners (you couldn't call a 102 D modern or antique and still tell the truth) http://www.mcicoach.com/Parts-Service-Support/partsSpecialsNewsDcoachConversion.htm |