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airless in Mississippi (Airless_in_mississippi)
Registered Member
Username: Airless_in_mississippi
Post Number: 111
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 68.241.193.57
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, July 13, 2006 - 1:24 am: | |
I am having voltage dropping from 119 to less the 98 during the daytime. Currently it is stable around 115 volts. I am running 30 amp w/one ac a tv a small frige and computer. These are on 3 different circuits. The ac is on 10guage wire, the outlets are 12. The wire feeding the coach is 8 guage (50ft and is not warm).
The park says not the pole circuit ( I am measuring input to the coach)
Is there anything I can do to offset this drop?
Could this drop be happening due to the wiring in the coach? ( I do not see how but thought I would ask anyway). |
Bob Boyce (Bob_rts)
Registered Member
Username: Bob_rts
Post Number: 5
Registered: 7-2006
Posted From: 66.44.205.25
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, July 13, 2006 - 1:53 am: | |
More than likely it is the power at the pad shore power outlet. The heat and humidity are probably causing many there to run their air conditioners, and during the day this load would be higher than at night. If the wiring that supplies power from the utility to the park main service panel, or from the park panel to the pads, is not up to par to handle the full rated load, voltage drop will result. Many times smaller wire is used under the assumption that not all circuits will be run at maximum load all at once. Is the park full of other RVs? One way to tell would be to monitor your voltage while switching off your air conditioner during the day while this brownout condition exists. If the voltage stays below normal or only comes up a little, it is a pretty good indicator of a problem with the park supply. Have you measured the voltage at the shore power outlet?
Bob |
Cliff (Floridacracker)
Registered Member
Username: Floridacracker
Post Number: 286
Registered: 7-2004
Posted From: 148.71.132.11
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, July 13, 2006 - 6:47 am: | |
As Bob said it does sound like the typical RV park voltage drop.
I have been on the road for a couple of weeks and observed it in some form at every park.
I make it a point to check voltage, ground at all outlets before I plug in. I have seen some real interesting wiring by some(park electricians)that might really SHOCK you.(pun intended)
CLIFF |
Muddog16 (Muddog16)
Registered Member
Username: Muddog16
Post Number: 287
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 4.225.92.14
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, July 13, 2006 - 7:29 am: | |
Its that time of year, for brown outs or drops, I agree! As the load increases voltage will drop across the whole grid......especially during the summer months! |
John MC9
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 66.217.105.101
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, July 13, 2006 - 9:15 am: | |
As Cliff said:
"I make it a point to check voltage, ground at all outlets before I plug in. "
That's an absolute must-do at every campground.
A few years back, I watched as a camper, getting ready to
leave, backed into a power pod, knocking it sideways... He
just drove right out.. When I notified the park; they did nothing.
I imagined some poor sap getting zapped due to the negligence.
Test everything; It's your life. |
Bob Greenwood
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 63.233.5.15
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, July 13, 2006 - 11:24 am: | |
I watched one of those 500,000 dollar motorhomes try to get REAL close to the sewer hook-up, he had his wife outside directing him,it was about 11: pm & he kept going till he caved the side of his motorhome in on the telephone pole.(I know,has nothing to do with elec. )but, I agree the wireing at most parks is VERY poor |
Len Silva (Lsilva)
Registered Member
Username: Lsilva
Post Number: 23
Registered: 12-2000
Posted From: 71.29.143.75
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, July 13, 2006 - 12:38 pm: | |
Has anyone had experience with the Hughes Auto transformer?
http://www.autoformers.com/#
Kind of pricey but might help in low voltage situations.
Len Silva |
Richard Bowyer (Drivingmisslazy)
Registered Member
Username: Drivingmisslazy
Post Number: 1612
Registered: 1-2001
Posted From: 70.105.143.139
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, July 13, 2006 - 1:06 pm: | |
Auto transformers work great for this situation, however as you say they are pricey and heavy.
The lower voltage from the power pole, the overall amps will go up so you could trip the main circuit breaker if you try and put full load on the system.
Richard |
airless in Mississippi (Airless_in_mississippi)
Registered Member
Username: Airless_in_mississippi
Post Number: 112
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 68.241.207.93
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, July 13, 2006 - 5:53 pm: | |
I have to do something. I just replaced ac in bedroom because it had burned out the compressor.
This week showing low voltage 54 times for nearly 30 minutes of total time. |
John MC9
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 66.217.107.143
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, July 13, 2006 - 6:42 pm: | |
Airless -
Do they have 50amp service available?
(is your rig 50 or 30 amp?) |
Bob Greenwood
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 63.233.94.205
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, July 13, 2006 - 6:57 pm: | |
call the elec. company,transformer might not be big enough. ALSO the elec. company will put a graph on you line & tell you how many times & how low. last time I talked to them they said there was no such thing as a brown-out...the reason they say that is so they don't have to buy you a new A/C |
Ed Jewett (Kristinsgrandpa)
Registered Member
Username: Kristinsgrandpa
Post Number: 250
Registered: 2-2003
Posted From: 64.24.212.14
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, July 13, 2006 - 8:58 pm: | |
Not only are autotransformers pricey and heavy they are against the National Electric Code for use in camppgrounds.
NEC Article 551.20 (E) AUTOTRANSFORMERS. Autotransformers shall not be used.
If you are using one I wouldn't discuss the fact with the campground manager or anyone else for that matter.
Ed |
John MC9
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 66.217.107.143
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, July 13, 2006 - 9:55 pm: | |
uhmm...
If anything, it may against "code" for the campground to
supply power through an autotransformer to their customers,
but there's nothing stopping the end user of using whatever
device they wish.
Airless -
If 50amp is provided at the park, use a 50 to 30 adapter,
and enjoy running the appliances. |
Ed Jewett (Kristinsgrandpa)
Registered Member
Username: Kristinsgrandpa
Post Number: 251
Registered: 2-2003
Posted From: 64.24.214.4
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, July 14, 2006 - 9:44 am: | |
That is where you are wrong. It's the end user that is forbidden from using autotransformers.
Ed |
Richard Bowyer (Drivingmisslazy)
Registered Member
Username: Drivingmisslazy
Post Number: 1616
Registered: 1-2001
Posted From: 70.105.143.139
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, July 14, 2006 - 10:16 am: | |
Sure would be nice to find out exactly why they are prohibited. I have seen posts over the years where a user installed one in his RV for this very reason.
One nice thing is that they are available with several taps so that you can adjust the output voltage to suit what the input is.
I have used them several times in industrial equipment which is apparently OK.
Richard |
John MC9
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 66.217.108.93
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, July 14, 2006 - 5:18 pm: | |
I'm sorry Ed, but you'll have to provide the documentation that
clearly states that "an RV owner cannot use an autotransformer",
or a link to a web site, that does.
The "codes" were designed for manufacturers, installers, and
providers of service.
Once again, I note that no explanation of the intent of the code
is provided for the reader's digestion, just the hyperbole of
"things that are forbidden by law". Without the knowledge of
"why" it shouldn't be used, the "code" means nothing to anyone
wishing to use one.
(Take note that a "code" is not a "law", Ed. Unless the "code"
is accepted by legislation and written into law. Find me the
"law" that says I can't use an autotransformer in my bus).
Grrrrrrrrr.
</snarl> |
John MC9
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 66.217.108.93
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, July 14, 2006 - 6:01 pm: | |
Ohhh... Ed?
NEMA > Standards > Field Representative Program > Code Alerts >
Code Alert: New Jersey, 05 May 2006
(http://www.nema.org/stds/fieldreps/codealerts/20060505nj.cfm)
The New Jersey Department of Community Affairs, Division Of
Codes and Standards adopted the 2005 NEC with 20 amendments,
effective May 1, 2006. The amendments are as follows:
--
--
--
iii. In Article 551, entitled "Recreation Vehicles and
Recreation Vehicle Parks," delete from the title the words
"Recreational Vehicles and."
(1) Section 551.1 is amended to delete the phrase "within or
on recreational vehicles" on line 4.
(2) Parts II, III, IV, and V, comprising sections
551.20through 551.60, are deleted in their entirety, with
the exception of Figure 551.46(C), which shall be retained.
Can you please interpret that for me?
Thank you. |
Richard Bowyer (Drivingmisslazy)
Registered Member
Username: Drivingmisslazy
Post Number: 1619
Registered: 1-2001
Posted From: 66.168.162.246
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, July 15, 2006 - 7:05 am: | |
Thanks John. I was really mystified as to why they would be banned.
I used to be on a board for rewriting/updating the NEC and it was not unusual to find some bloopers like this.
Richard |
John MC9
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 66.217.108.104
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, July 15, 2006 - 8:09 am: | |
Richard -
Aww... it's nuthin', really! I just enjoy being another Don Quioxte,
fighting the regulatory windmills of this Nation...
Hey... remember when they OK'd aluminum wiring in homes?
(Eeegads!) |
Richard Bowyer (Drivingmisslazy)
Registered Member
Username: Drivingmisslazy
Post Number: 1621
Registered: 1-2001
Posted From: 70.105.151.228
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, July 15, 2006 - 9:24 am: | |
Yep. I was there for that.
Richard |
airless in Mississippi (Airless_in_mississippi)
Registered Member
Username: Airless_in_mississippi
Post Number: 113
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 68.241.10.69
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, July 15, 2006 - 11:32 am: | |
John I am attempting your idea. It appears that it is not successful. Voltage did pick up somewhat but as soon as the ac turns on drops 8 volts. So I get the old faithful amp meter out and test it... Nothing bad it appears.
I gotta find a place to live. |
John MC9
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 66.217.105.118
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, July 15, 2006 - 7:07 pm: | |
Airless -
Wow. Must be a helluva run between the source and the pod, eh?
Any chance you can get a spot closer to the main panel, even
to just test things out?
I had one Coleman AC unit (on the Winnebagocrap) that
always seemed to cause breakers to trip. I finally got a new
(used) one to replace it, and the problem was gonzo.
Of cuz, if youse hafta' stay there, you can always get a cheap
window AC unit, and run that. They take a whole lot less
amps to run! Even those "ventless" ones can do better than
an older rooftop AC... |
Ed Jewett (Kristinsgrandpa)
Registered Member
Username: Kristinsgrandpa
Post Number: 252
Registered: 2-2003
Posted From: 64.24.212.213
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, July 15, 2006 - 9:36 pm: | |
It means that recreational vehicles in New Jersey are exempt from the National Electric Code.
It is still the law in the other 49 states.
The National Electric Code is an exact document published by the National Fire Protection Association. The code is enforced by the adopting body, either in it's entirety or with exception. It is enforced by the adopting body.
NJ has seen fit to make RV's exempt.
Were there any other states?
It appears that NJ adopted it with exception and they list the exceptions in that link.
Ed |
John MC9
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 66.217.107.197
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, July 15, 2006 - 11:56 pm: | |
Ed -
I respect your knowledge, and experience in the field. However,
you are unfortunately wrong, regarding this topic.
There is no "law" in any State of the Union, that dictates an
owner of a recreational vehicle cannot use an autotransformer.
(as far as I know; I ain't gonna' spend another four hours looking)
It's as simple as that.
It would be great, if you could provide some comment as
to "why" an autotransformer should not be used in an RV.
List the hazards, and problems that can lead to a hazardous
condition, or damage.
You unfortunately fail to do that, leaving some of us a bit
dismayed with the non-intellectual thought process of
"do as I say without question" ideology.
When a bad "law" is made, it is our commitment to test that
law by disregarding it. It is our obligation to do so, by the
very nature of our freedom, and our right and need, to defend it.
</political_soapbox_statement>
There is no reason an RV owner should not be able to make
use of an autotransformer to help regulate the voltage to his/her
appliances; It is, what the autotransformer was designed to do.
It would be the wrong choice of apparatus for an RV park
owner to use, to supply power to his/her customers.
The lack of isolation between the primary and secondary
windings of an autotransformer, would be problematic for
multiple circuits and users. These devices were not designed
for such usage. For a single use (one RV), there is absolutely
no problem.
The NJ board felt certain enough with that (legally/liability-wise),
that they have exempted the wording from their legislation.
I think of you search as I have, you will find that Ca., Ma.,
Pa., etc, have all found the same way.
Sorry Ed..... But simply citing "code" just doesn't hack it with me.
Cheers. |
Steve Zona (Highwayrunner)
Registered Member
Username: Highwayrunner
Post Number: 60
Registered: 4-2005
Posted From: 24.144.116.43
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, July 16, 2006 - 9:29 am: | |
Sorry guys, I just can't believe that autoformers are not legal in campgrounds. I am a fulltime rv'er, and busnut. also a thousand trails platinum plus member. thousand trails has a considerable number of campgrounds across the country, and all of them sell autoformers at the campground stores.
Steve and Cindi 82mc9 |
Dale Waller (Happycampersrus)
Registered Member
Username: Happycampersrus
Post Number: 209
Registered: 7-2005
Posted From: 68.65.122.187
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, July 16, 2006 - 9:54 am: | |
Camping World sells them also. |
Tom Caffrey (Pvcces)
Registered Member
Username: Pvcces
Post Number: 961
Registered: 5-2001
Posted From: 65.74.70.16
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, July 16, 2006 - 8:08 pm: | |
John, I'm with you on this one. The number of bad laws that have been passed and later revoked because of conditions that someone didn't anticipate have me convinced that anyone who wants to play regulator needs to be watched and challenged when the reason for their coices don't hold water.
I don't think that there is anything wrong with passing on what people have discovered, regardless what it is.
I can think of a number of things that are permitted in the code that are really dangerous, but there aren't enough bodies strewn around the scenery for the people who administer the code to have changed it, yet.
When there are, it'll get changed AGAIN.
For what it's worth.
Tom Caffrey PD4106-2576
Suncatcher
Ketchikan, Alaska |
airless in Mississippi (Airless_in_mississippi)
Registered Member
Username: Airless_in_mississippi
Post Number: 114
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 66.76.56.62
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, July 17, 2006 - 2:46 am: | |
John this is a brand new unit that I replaced the previous unit that burned out. |
John MC9
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 66.217.106.148
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, July 17, 2006 - 9:07 am: | |
Airless -
I'll bet we've all run into the "low power" problem at one
campground or another, it kinda' goes with the turf.
Did you imply that they provide 50 amp service at the pod
you're plugged into, or that they have 50 amp service at
some spots, but not yours?
If I were you, I'd get to a spot closer to the main panel
(with preferably 50 amp service), even if it's only to test
things out.
The storage facility I'm at, had decent enough 20 amp
power to my bus. I could run one AC unit and some tools.
After a boat tore the power line off the pole, the facility
owner replaced the original overhead power company
connection to the panel, with his own underground run
from the panel at the main building. I don't know what
gauge wire he used, but I can't run an air compressor, or
the AC unit, now.
I'd test things out at another pod first.... one that's more
likely to have the power you need..
Hell.... I'd drive to a different campground for a night, just to
satisfy myself that there's nothing wrong with my new AC
unit and wiring. |
Marc Bourget
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 64.142.42.176
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, July 22, 2006 - 8:55 am: | |
John, with regard to your comment of testing a law by disregarding it. Good advice by intent but not by method.
There's various ways of "testing" a law, short of violation, that permits the challenge but doesn't expose the "tester" to fines or incarceration. Unless you're a publicity seeking like Martin Sheen, etc. |
John MC9
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 66.217.105.113
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, July 22, 2006 - 9:41 am: | |
Re:
"There's various ways of "testing" a law, short of violation"
Not really, Marc. There would have to be a penalty levied,
or a right infringed upon; a loss incurred, before a court will
hear it. You can't complain about a "loss" if there wasn't one,
and there can't be one, unless you rejected that "law" and were
forced to pay the penalty.
Rosa Parks was a good example of how we test a law.
(It's the Libertarian in me) |
Roderick W. Chandler (Rod)
Registered Member
Username: Rod
Post Number: 13
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 207.155.61.31
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, July 22, 2006 - 3:48 pm: | |
Did you try the autotransformer? Did it work? Has the problem been solved? What was the solution? Inquiring minds want to know.
Rod |
Bob Boyce (Bob_rts)
Registered Member
Username: Bob_rts
Post Number: 7
Registered: 7-2006
Posted From: 66.44.207.135
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, July 22, 2006 - 4:52 pm: | |
John is absolutely right.
In south FL, I ran into a zoning issue over my ham radio antenna tower. The tower had been there for many years, but it wasn't until the county decided to put a 5 lane road through my front yard that they decided that they did not want it there.
Federal preemption rules allowed it, but the county passed a new ordinance against any kind of tower or TV antenna over 15 feet high in a residential area. They sent code enforcement out to enforce it.
The ARRL assisted me in locating a local attorney familiar with federal preemption. I hired the attorney to counter the threats from the county.
I was forced to wait until actual fines were levied before I could take legal action. My initial case was simple, the judge ruled that my tower was covered by the grandfather clause, since it was there prior to the drafting of the ordinance, and the county was ordered to reimburse me for my legal expenses.
I did not stop with that. I challenged the legality of the ordinance, based on the "now proven in court" fact that I had been harmed by this ordinance. I brought in the structural engineer that I had consulted and obtained engineering drawings from, for my tower construction, and I involved the tower manufacturer itself, and their design engineers.
The final decision of the court was that it was unconstitutional for the county to base that ordinance on easthetics, instead of solid engineering practices. The ordinance was repealed, and a new one was drafted that was based on solid engineering, and that accomodated federal preemption.
Bob |
John MC9
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 66.217.105.112
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, July 22, 2006 - 10:07 pm: | |
I bet they would have loved my 90' high 204' long G5RV
I had in Massachusetts!!
(unfortunately, they don't have palm trees that tall down here)
73 Bob |
Len Silva (Lsilva)
Registered Member
Username: Lsilva
Post Number: 24
Registered: 12-2000
Posted From: 71.28.19.106
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, July 23, 2006 - 5:42 pm: | |
(QUOTE) Posted on Thursday, July 13, 2006 - 8:58 pm:
-------------------------------------------
Not only are autotransformers pricey and heavy they are against the National Electric Code for use in camppgrounds.
NEC Article 551.20 (E) AUTOTRANSFORMERS. Autotransformers shall not be used.
If you are using one I wouldn't discuss the fact with the campground manager or anyone else for that matter.
Ed (UNQUOTE)
Ed,
I had the same concerns some years ago and talked to Mr. Hughes himself.
I don't remember the exact language but he convinced me that this was not in violation of 551.20 (E) and the Hughes Autoformer is UL approved for the application.
Len Silva |