| Author | Message | ||
| Buddy Tennison (Buddyten)
Registered Member Username: Buddyten Post Number: 10 Registered: 7-2005 Posted From: 208.60.76.50 Rating: N/A |
Guys, On a previous post, I went through a littany on why we shouldn't run multi-grade oil in my DDEC. I think I got the message, and intend to change it out to straight 40W. Although I have changed oil in my wife's car and in my truck many times, I have never attempted it on the bus. 1. Is there any difference? Drain and install new oil filter and oil just like in my vehicles? Any little nuances or requirements that I may need to do? 2. Since I am unsure about the dipstick accuracy, I also want to change that out. It is my intention to put in 7 gallons, install the new dipstick and mark it to indicate 1 gallon low. Then install the 8th gallon and mark it at the full level. Is this the correct procedure? 3. Do I need to fill the oil filter before installing? 4. Should I crank and run the bus after installation of 7 gallons and allow time for it to drain back to the sump before installing the 8th gallon? 5. Also, do you guys run any oil additives such as "Lucas", etc? 6. In switching from multi-grade to straight 40W, will I notice any difference in oil pressure? (As indicated in previous thread, I normally run around 55-60 psi) I just don't want to get alarmed if it is different on the gauge than what I am used to. I guess the next question is what should the oil pressure run? I sure appreciate all the expert advice. Working on this thing has been something that I have left to my mechanic, but am going to give it a try. | ||
| John MC9 (John_mc9)
Registered Member Username: John_mc9 Post Number: 41 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 66.217.108.81 Rating: N/A |
Listen, I'm probably as new at this as you are. I drove for a -great- many miles for many different bus companies. No driver was ever required to do anything, but drive the bus safely, and keep the passengers happy. The driver is a professional at driving; the barn mechanic does his trick.... If I were you, I'd drain the oil sump of it's 8 gallons, put in a new filter, and refill with 8 gallons of 40 wt Delo 100. Drive the thing for a few hours (or more), and see what happens. It may take a few hundred miles before you see a difference. If you still have the problem after a few hundred miles, then I'd look at the accuracy of the dipstick. And as mentioned, it takes the rings awhile to set in, so oil consumption should be judged after that period of "break-in". Don't make the mistake of making mountains out of mole turds. Most often, the problem isn't major, and the solution inexpensive. Smile, while you can. (Message edited by john_mc9 on August 03, 2006) | ||
| T. (Bluegrass)
Registered Member Username: Bluegrass Post Number: 196 Registered: 4-2002 Posted From: 72.160.132.250 Rating: N/A |
Buddy You talk about putting in 7 gallon, I only put in 27 quarts In my 8V71 though It was a 1969 engine I don't believe that the newer engines had a bigger oil pan,over filling the crank case will result In the crank running In oil all the time and It will churn the oil, make sure that the oil Is ( C2 )rated I also filled the filter up with oil so the engine wasn't so long without oil, I can truly say that your oil pressure will go up maybe not right away but It will go up, also ask yourself If the manufacture put additive In the oil, If not then I wouldn't put any In It either, after all they had more money In the design of this engine than you did. this Is the reason that you put In C2 rated oil. | ||
| Richard Bowyer (Drivingmisslazy)
Registered Member Username: Drivingmisslazy Post Number: 1648 Registered: 1-2001 Posted From: 66.168.162.246 Rating: N/A |
It is my understanding that the correct oil level is one inch below the seam of the oil pan and the engine. Insert the dip stick externally down the side to where it would be fully in the dip stick hole then mark the dip stick one inch below the seam. This is the full mark. This is based on information previously posted. You might want to check the archives and see if you can find something to verify this. Richard | ||
| Bob greenwood (Bob_greenwood)
Registered Member Username: Bob_greenwood Post Number: 40 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 63.233.41.179 Rating: N/A |
8v71 holds 7 gallons as far as I know. overfilling willbe a waste of oil ,it will throw it up ,somewhere,the oil filter is heavy anyway & kinda hard to get threaded on my bus,so, I do it empty,(fuel filters HAVE to be filled before screwing on ) AND... if possible...take her out for a 20 mile run,BEFORE you drain the oil,this gets stuff suspended in the oil & needs to be drained.AND lastly, everybody can do like they want,I wait till my bus is REALY warmed up after the oil change ,while it's running ,I add two pints of S.T.P. | ||
| Bob greenwood (Bob_greenwood)
Registered Member Username: Bob_greenwood Post Number: 45 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 63.233.41.179 Rating: N/A |
If you have been running 8 gallons of oil, I think we found the problem | ||
| John MC9 (John_mc9)
Registered Member Username: John_mc9 Post Number: 42 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 66.217.106.104 Rating: N/A |
From the MCI MC9 manual1984-01-1, Page 8-2:  I hope that's of some help? | ||
| Brian Brown (Blue_velvet)
Registered Member Username: Blue_velvet Post Number: 365 Registered: 6-2005 Posted From: 67.174.112.202 Rating: N/A |
Buddy, I've done it 4-5 times in various busses. It's just a bigger version of a car oil change. Best bit of advice is to get it up to speed and run hard (and long) before doing the oil change. This gets all of the gunkies out of the oil pan and into the drain pan. Considering your current multi-weight oil bugaboo, though, you might just get it hot. You also might set a baseline with an lab oil kit to measure metals and what-not in the oil. I do prefer to pre-fill the oil filters. Seems to make that horrible dry rattling noise for less time when you do this. The spin-ons (Napa #1970) will hold about a gallon of oil. I HATED doing the cannister type filters, so I changed my old 4106 over to spin-on. HTH, Brian Brown | ||
| Buddy Tennison (Buddyten)
Registered Member Username: Buddyten Post Number: 11 Registered: 7-2005 Posted From: 208.60.76.50 Rating: N/A |
Guys: Now I'm real confused. After hearing your answers with several variables, I called Detroit Diesel direct and spoke with their service support. I was advised by "P.J." that the proper fill is 27 quarts including oil filter and lines. He said it should be 1/2" below the seam between oil pan and engine block. Now I read John's post from his manual which indicates 32 qts (8 gal), which is what we have been running, and so many have said is incorrect. What would you guys do? | ||
| John MC9 (John_mc9)
Registered Member Username: John_mc9 Post Number: 44 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 66.217.105.159 Rating: N/A |
I'd run it a gallon low. It won't hurt a thing, and it'll give you a chance to see if it'll actually cure the leaks and mess.... BUT..... You'll have to get that blasted multigrade out, change filters, and refill with a CF2 1% ash 40w oil.... Delo 100 is the only brand I've learned, conforms to those specs. It ain't easy to find. I can tell you., that my rear seal leak, and smoke, decreased greatly after the oil change to Delo 100, 40w. Unfortunately my rear main leak still leaked (a lot less, but still ...), and just didn't want to waste the high priced oil.... The cheap stuff has caused all my old problems to return. Do yourself a favor: Use the right oil for the engine. . | ||
| Buddy Tennison (Buddyten)
Registered Member Username: Buddyten Post Number: 12 Registered: 7-2005 Posted From: 208.60.76.50 Rating: N/A |
John: You are correct that the Delo 100 is difficult to find. I called the local Chevron oil main distribution center today, and was advised they did not even stock the 100. He told me that the 400 was the same, just a newer formulation (wasn't any more specific than that). Do you happen to know what the differences are. I also went to the largest diesel shop in the area and spoke with their service manager. He said that unless customers specify differently, they use the Rotella 40W (but then the Shell distributor is a brother to the man who owns this diesel shop). How does the Rotella 40W match up? | ||
| Buswarrior (Buswarrior)
Registered Member Username: Buswarrior Post Number: 848 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 65.92.190.167 Rating: |
Oh Geez... To mess up things further, my MC8 manual says on the page designated 8-19 April,1978 that the crankcase capacity for the 8V71 is 28 US quarts. I have 7 US gallons drilled into my head. IIRC, mine comes up nicely to the full mark with 7 gallons after a drain and fill including changing the old style cannister oil filter. (I'm due to do it, so it has been awhile!) Remembering this is a bus conversion, being driven by the guy who owns and has to pay for repairs (and not a hired gun who doesn't care) a busnut checks the oil level regularly, and that a busnut might be prone to changing the oil on a shorter interval than the maintenance manual anyway.... Try putting 7 gallons in and see where it shows on the stick, after it has been run and left for a few hours to drain back down. It won't hurt it to run 7, if it needs 8, if you think about the difference in depth that extra gallon will give you over the area of the pan, and that you won't be doing the top mileage between changes. I, too, inherited multi-grade in my engine. The same results, the oil consumption dropped dramatically once I put the 40 wt in. Something obscene like a gallon per 1000 miles to the present top up of half a gallon for the 3242 mile trip to Florida for Jack's party and back this past New Year's. I am up in Canada and run the 40wt all year. I have a Webasto, so there are no issues with sub-zero starting. (There would be without it!) Some tips: buy the oil in gallons, resist the temptation to buy a pail, unless you really want the empty pail. Remember you have to be able to pour it down that spout, the pail will hit other things while tipping up will need some big fancy funnel/hose adaptation and won't drain completely and gallons are easier to handle. 40 wt oil doesn't flow as fast as your tired arms would like! And it takes a long time for the oil to drain back down in the block. That isn't your father's Oldsmobile....! Keep us in the loop, we're behind you! happy coaching! buswarrior | ||
| John MC9 (John_mc9)
Registered Member Username: John_mc9 Post Number: 45 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 66.217.105.159 Rating: N/A |
Tough to find, but worth the search: http://www.busnut.com/bbs/messages/233/2571.html http://www.busnut.com/bbs/messages/233/12324.html http://www.busnut.com/bbs/messages/233/1899.html http://www.busnut.com/bbs/messages/233/5207.html http://www.busnut.com/bbs/messages/233/9025.html There's more. Search the archives! Lotsa' luck! | ||
| Brian Brown (Blue_velvet)
Registered Member Username: Blue_velvet Post Number: 366 Registered: 6-2005 Posted From: 72.19.152.144 Rating: N/A |
Buddy, Delo 400 is NOT the same as 100. It has too much ash content. Rotella T 40w and about 5-7 other oils WILL meet CF2 AND 1% or less ash. I order Rotella T from NAPA (two cases at a time) and it usually takes a day or so, since it's a special order. It's very convienient, and the easiest way for most busnuts to get an approved oil for their 2-strokes. HTH, bb | ||
| John MC9 (John_mc9)
Registered Member Username: John_mc9 Post Number: 46 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 66.217.105.159 Rating: N/A |
This may help you decide, also: http://www.tejascoach.com/tejasoil.html#Oilrec The 2 stroke diesel engines are an antique to the industry. There's no simple way to get them to conform with the new pollution standards, so it's easier to abandon the design, and move forward.. Along with the abandonment of that design, goes the abandonment of it's support industries... The oil designed to allow for longevity, is also abandoned. When you buy an old piece of heavy equipment designed for commercial use, you are buying equipment that may be destined to be outdated, and to the extent of extinction. The good news? I just saved a bundle on my car insurance! | ||
| Buddy Tennison (Buddyten)
Registered Member Username: Buddyten Post Number: 13 Registered: 7-2005 Posted From: 208.60.76.50 Rating: |
Guys: Thanks so much for all the info. The references to the Tejas site was informative. I will be changing my oil and filter out tomorrow to the 40W and will keep everyone apprised as to whether it makes a big difference. Just to let you know, we use this bus as an entertainer style coach for our Gospel quartet. It is on the road about 3 weekends out of the month, and average trip distance is 500-600 miles. We are singers and not mechanics, but want our bus to give the best service possible, and to look as good as possible. We may ask a ton of questions, but it is out of ignorance and truly wanting to learn more. Bear with us please. Thanks again. |
