| Author | Message | ||
| mark (Coolbus)
Registered Member Username: Coolbus Post Number: 7 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 69.68.255.240 Rating: N/A |
Here's what I found for sale... I'm interested! She's a CUTIE, straight, low miles on reman 6-71t, mostly completed conversion. I am more concerned with the age of the bus / drivetrain than I am in the previous owners conversion efforts, so my questions are regarding the parts availability of the "4104" specific parts. How much trouble are you other owners of 4104's having with maintenance and repairs? Anything specific that I should be concerned with? (Suspension, etc) Although I don't have any specific history of the bus, this thing looks as great. And I don't care if I have to slow down to 35 MPH on the hills, as long as I can do the speed limit on the flats! So the thing being 49 years old and possibly lacking some of the 'modern' equipment doesn't bother me at all. I like it being old, It's cool! thanks for your words of wisdom! PS: please indicate in your posts if you have a 4104, or used to own one, and have firsthand info, although I want to hear from as many as possible! thanks! Mark | ||
| mark (Coolbus)
Registered Member Username: Coolbus Post Number: 8 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 69.68.255.240 Rating: N/A |
By the way, if you were in my position and seriously considering the purchase, what questions should I be asking the seller? (Yes, I'm a newbie, sorry for my ignorance. But willing to learn all I can right here!)  I haven't seen the bus in person, just several emails, phone conversations, etc. thanks Mark | ||
| RJ Long (Rjlong)
Registered Member Username: Rjlong Post Number: 991 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 71.195.113.23 Rating: N/A |
Mark - What's the VIN on this coach, we can tell you who bought it originally from GMC. It should be PD4104-XXXX. Got a link to pics? | ||
| John MC9 (John_mc9)
Registered Member Username: John_mc9 Post Number: 50 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 66.217.108.125 Rating: |
Huh. Well.. It looks like I'm the only one sitting around at midnight that can't sleep.. I drove '04s and '06s way back when <harp_music>... Both models were nice to drive, not as stable as an Eagle (hell, nothing ever was), but it didn't lean as bad as an MCI. At only 35', there's just not as much to lean. I can't remember anything bad about driving 'em, actually. They were the most popular model for years, so like the MC9, you probably can continue finding parts for them for many, many years to come. Re: "By the way, if you were in my position and seriously considering the purchase, what questions should I be asking the seller? " First of all, I'd get up and out of that position while near any seller. You could ask him if the sun's out... (make sure you have the correct answer on hand!) You've probably read this a few hundred times on this board, but I'll type it again... Have the bus inspected at a bus garage before you make an offer on it. Say that over and over and over again, until your head feels like it's about to burst... If you don't heed that advice, instead of your head bursting, it'll be your wallet, credit cards and entire bank account - BLAM ! It's not like "buying a car", it's like getting married. (yes, let your mind explore that realm) | ||
| Greg Peterson (Gpmci102)
Registered Member Username: Gpmci102 Post Number: 6 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 71.228.18.37 Rating: N/A |
You indicate it has a 6-71t engine does that mean it has a turbo charger on the engine? If so it could have a little more kick on the hills than the old 6-71. I do not own one but did look at several 4106 buses before I bought my MCI. I liked the classic look of that bus and the all Al. construction, which is why they are still going after more than 45 years. The suggestion I have for you is to go look at the bus and if possible see if you can drive it. The 4106 buses I looked at had the old manual transmissions that required double clutching or a lot of practice to shift with out grinding the gears. They also had tremendous “play” in the steering. At my age neither of these attributes are favorable for a long drive while on vacation. The 4106 I looked at were the real GMC deal and even had General Motors stamped on the valve covers not Detroit Diesel. The 4104 or 4106 would be interesting to own for the history and just plain cool looks. I would rather go drive over the mountains on my vacation in my 8v-92ta MCI. Hey this whole thought makes me want to buy a second bus…4106… but my wife would shoot me. Have fun PS, Hey John MCI 9 I am up late to reading and writing about buses…. And I am married so I don’t think buying a bus is like getting married… it must be better? (Just joking honey) | ||
| Gus Causbie (Gusc)
Registered Member Username: Gusc Post Number: 161 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 63.97.117.39 Rating: N/A |
This is one of the better looking small buses. We don't pull a toad, this 35' bus is not that hard to get around city streets. I've had my '54 4104 for almost a year and love it. Original 671 with 4sp manual. I don't double clutch, I don't even use the clutch except starting from a dead stop. It takes a bit of practice to shift without grinding the gears with or w/o the clutch. A lot of the problem is with worn out shift and clutch linkage. It just takes practice. If you've driven a large diesel truck it will be much easier to learn to drive the bus. The “play” in the steering can be removed by a simple adjustment on the steering box, I just did that. Be sure it has power steering, either the original power assist or Sheppard add on. Manual is a bear in close quarters. So far I've had no problems with parts, there is usually someone on this board who can direct you to any parts you need. Try to get one with spring parking brakes, the old original manual brake is not nearly as good. Look for good air pressure retention, big air leaks are very hard to find and fix. Check if the air brake pressure holds for at least 3-4 hours and if the air suspension stays up for a few days. Drive it a few miles or have the owner drive it to check if there are any serious oil leaks from the engine. If so there will be oil on the rear of the bus. The non-turbo 671 is good for around 60-65 mph, don't know about the 671T but assume it is a bit faster. Long mountain grades and hills are slow but I don't care, it is fun. Insulation is important. It is very hard to heat and cool because of the Al body and single pane windows. | ||
| frank radosti (Frank4104)
Registered Member Username: Frank4104 Post Number: 1 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 64.136.26.225 Rating: N/A |
hey gus,Ihave a 1957 04 love it, but it dose lose air, in a few hrs. the gauge starts to show signs of it.the air bags will last about seven days then she will lean to one side in about a week then down on all stops in about ten days or so but not a problem at all wile cruseing she runs at 70 mph I have had her to 75mph but she likes to run 70 at that speed I get about 10 mpg.adv.its a 671 naturily asperated,still can't down shift thought,don't drive enought to get better but I will,love to drive it when i do.I pulled pu r.j's nots on shifitng it helped alot....i'll keep in touch like to talk to outher 04's........frank | ||
| Mel La Plante (Mel_4104)
Registered Member Username: Mel_4104 Post Number: 7 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 208.181.100.33 Rating: N/A |
Markthe 4104 was built when the sign on the wall read[ keep it simple stupid] and that is what they did when they built it. No belts and pullies,one of the best engines ever built, great air ride,great style [no other bus looks as good going down the road] great body construction, not full of rust like some make, easy to maintain as every thing is right in front of you, and they are only 35 feet long and are easy to move around, and if you have the steering assit so much the better,you can get them in and out of areas that the big 40&45 ft units look at and wish they could go there too, they are light so do not sway bad on the corners, how ever they are not over powered and are slow on the hills, the big high powered units will pass you but do no worry as you will get there and it may even be before them as they will be stopping for fuel a lot more often than you and they break down more than you will as all those bells and whistles that they have and you donot will fail at some time or have to be replaced. at the present time parts are still out there for them but just as with any coach you have to look, we have had ours for 15 years, Bud 8, Wayne 10, Dave 8, Jay 14, Les 8,and Murray 25, however Murray passer away over a year ago and his bus was sold but the new owners have it and love it so it is not for sale, so it looks like if you get one it could be for life. just rember do as they have stated have the bus that you are looking checked over by some one that know GMs before you make an offer if you do as it may save you money that you did not want to spend. | ||
| Kyle Brandt (Kyle4501)
Registered Member Username: Kyle4501 Post Number: 178 Registered: 9-2004 Posted From: 65.23.106.193 Rating: N/A |
RE: [no other bus looks as good going down the road] I agree, but with one exception, the PD4501! | ||
| Tim Hoskinson (Tdh37514151)
Registered Member Username: Tdh37514151 Post Number: 177 Registered: 9-2004 Posted From: 4.252.74.37 Rating: N/A |
Hi Mark I have owned a 4104 for three years now and I really like it. I have collected and restored antique trucks and equipment now for twenty years so I can tell you that the bigest danger is allowing your self to get taken in by the great old look. I personally like the looks of the 3751 or 4151 GM buses better but there is certainly nothing wrong with the look of a 4104. Nice to drive and good fule millage. But remember the buses age. The early 4104 s had aluminum air beams wich were leak prone. Even the later steel could have this problem. Front axle work can be expensive jack it up check for extensive king pin play. Check for wheel bearing play. Many of these vehicles have been left go untill the bearing spins in the hub and then you have hub problems as well. Out of the seven buses I own five have had this problem. As for play in the steering if it has standard steering it will probably have little play. If it has a sheppard power box and it has play you will find no adjustment on that box. By the way if this bus has a tubo engine it will run better however with out cooling system modifictions you will find it hard to keep the engine cool on a hard pull. I have personally done the work on my front axle as well as a good bit of other work on the 4104 so if you have other questions please feel free to click on my name for my e mail address and I will offer any info. I have first hand experience on . Best of luck. Tim | ||
| Gus Causbie (Gusc)
Registered Member Username: Gusc Post Number: 165 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 63.97.117.20 Rating: N/A |
Mine doesn't hold brake air very long either, that's the reason I said to check it closely. It is a pain to stop all those leaks. My air bags last about three or four days, a week would be nice. They last much longer in warm weather or while on a long trip and driving every day. Frank, I don't know how you get 70 out of it. Mine definitely does not like anything over 65. My speedometer reads 4-5 mph too fast so I usually cruise at 65 indicated where the engine sounds comfortable. I hit 70 on some short down grades but the engine sound is not comforting. I agree with Tim on the 3751 or 4151, I almost bought a 3751, but they are much harder to find in good condition. So many more 4104s were built that you should be able to find a good one-just don't rush into getting one. I didn't know 4104s ever had Al air beams, I better check mine since it is a '54. If the 671 is actually a turbo you should be sure that it doesn't overheat before you buy. | ||
| mark (Coolbus)
Registered Member Username: Coolbus Post Number: 9 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 69.68.255.240 Rating: N/A |
Great info, guys Thanks for all the info, precautions, and insparation! If I am able to get this bus (if it meets all my expectations - as well as a bus inspection), I will be one happy camper! Its great to hear from all of you. Thanks for the many responses. Mark | ||
| Jim-Bob Unregistered guest Posted From: 69.77.153.185 Rating: N/A |
Mark, a 4104 is like a '57 Chevy. Simple & built like a brick _hithouse! I own a '59 4104, a '76 4905 & an '88 Eagle & I like the '04 the best. I have owned it for 9 years now. Just about all the rolling parts are truck parts. The transmission is unique but you could find a spare for about $500 as some folks remove it to go automatic. Think long & hard & learn to drive the old girl properly (which might take 4-5000 miles) before you decide to go automatic. There are lots of reasons not to. My '04 has "tall gears" & will do 74 on the flat all day long but as you say, it will slow to 20-30 on a steep grade (7-8%). Climbing grades amounts to about 1/2 of 1% of my miles so not a big deal. When you travel by motor home you should not be in a huge rush. You have your home, bathroom & kitchen right with you. Enjoy the trip & relax. I would buy a 4104 in a heartbeat, BUT.... Be sure to buy one in decent shape. Have a BUS mechanic check it out before you buy. The most important thing is the body/chassis, the next is the condition of the powertrain. Third is how nice is the conversion. You are looking for a bus that the owner has properly maintained. Mine had a lot of problems when I bought her & it took me almost two years of spare time projects to straighten her out. Once you get a bus "right", you don't have to do much but put in fuel & change oil/grease after that. Jim-Bob | ||
| Casper Unregistered guest Posted From: 52.128.30.12 Rating: N/A |
I like mine. Like you, I read this board for a while and asked a few questions before I made the purchase. These guys helped me make a decision that has worked out well for me. I cruise nicely at 62mph or so on the flat - she'll go faster but I like to baby her to get the fuel economy. I got 11.4 mpg on my last run. What I like about this old gal is the simplicity - some of these experienced guys could probably scribble most of the electrical diagrams on a diner napkin from memory. The double clutching thing isn't so hard to pick up. I double when I need to shift a little quicker, but most of the time I just (gently) feel my way with no clutch. Have her checked out good by a real, reputable bus shop. Not a truck shop, a bus shop - there are alot of commonalities, but alot of differences too. Then take her for a good test drive. Not around the block, I mean an hour or more. You want to see how you really like driving the bus after the "shock & awe" of the first 5 minutes wears off. You also want to get a look at operating temperatures, oil pressure and oil loss (checking the back of the bus when you arrive tells you if the guy washes his bus - checking it after an hour's run tells you if the bus is hemorrhaging). A few days ago my daughter had trouble with her car. Now I had foolishly left my tools in the bus, so I had her drive me to where I park the beast so I could get my tools and work on the car. We got there and I got out my toolbox. Daughter's car was dripping a little fuel. Pulled it apart and found an eroded O-ring. Jessi's car in pieces, mommy running around town - hmmmm, how to get to the auto parts store? I drove a 1958 PD4104 ex hound on a 3 mile errand to Autozone to get a 29 cent O-ring. :-) Any day I get to drive the bus is a good day. Like I said, I like mine, Casper4104 PD4104-3103 | ||
| Gus Causbie (Gusc)
Registered Member Username: Gusc Post Number: 167 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 63.97.117.15 Rating: N/A |
Casper, It needs to be driven once in a while anyway. I hate letting mine sit very long. I think you are the one I owe an apology. Some time back you posted that you get 11.4 mpg at 62 mph and I said I didn't think that was possible. Well, I have to eat my words. I recently drove 590 miles and used exactly 50 gal, that is 11.8 mpg!! I couldn't believe it because 85. was the best I ever got before. The one thing I changed was getting the radiator shutters working and also the trip was in the flat country of MS and LA. I, like you, cruise at 62-64 mph because the bus feels best at those speeds. I almost never use the clutch except for starting from a dead stop. I find that I don't clash gears any more without than with! They are great machines. | ||
| Casper Unregistered guest Posted From: 52.128.30.16 Rating: N/A |
Great news Gus, glad you're getting better mileage. With the go-go juice at $3.02 a gallon here in southern Ohio, we need all the efficiency we can get. This one gets a good run pretty regularly. I teach motorcycle safety courses out of town, and I get her out for a good long run every month or so to do that. She'll do some sitting in the winter, but from March thru October it's go go go. My hero FF always said that any run under an hour does as much harm as good. You gotta get her hot enough to boil/burn off the condensation that accumulated inside, so it makes sense. I miss that guy. Keep us posted Mark | ||
| Doug J 4104 (Doug_j)
Registered Member Username: Doug_j Post Number: 2 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 65.116.42.62 Rating: N/A |
Just bought a 4104--great machine...anyone interested in another? '70 fishbowl email me for more info. Don't think I'll be needing a fleet, at least thats what my better half tells me. | ||
| bernie newcomb
Unregistered guest Posted From: 152.163.100.138 Rating: N/A |
i have had my 4104 for 2 years and i love it. its a great old bus.i like the old 671's, you can't beat them good luck Bernie newcomb |
