| Author | Message | ||
| Thomas Weeks (Buscrazytom)
Registered Member Username: Buscrazytom Post Number: 22 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 66.188.77.156 Rating: N/A |
Hello Again, Still poking around looking at various buses and ran across a "local" selling a 1966 GM PD4107 35' Buffalo. Although I have not yet seen it or personally spoken with the owner, I've been told that it has a rebuilt DD8V71, rebuilt V730 Allison Automatic, rebuilt compressor, etc. Was also told that front air bags are new, but rears are shot, and that it has some electrical issues with some of the running lights (no problem to me there), but that it has no batteries. First, could anyone estimate cost of replacing rear air bags on this, and tell me how many of what type battery(s) I need to take with me to crank it assuming everything else checks out? Thanks Tom | ||
| Dale Waller (Happycampersrus)
Registered Member Username: Happycampersrus Post Number: 227 Registered: 7-2005 Posted From: 68.65.122.187 Rating: |
Having the work done to replace the bags is about 1K. If you replace the bags yourself about $500 or so. Plan on $125 a piece by the time you have them shipped. I would suggest you have that bus looked at by a garage that works on buses if possible before you buy it. Or at least pay a mechanic to go with you. | ||
| Bob greenwood (Bob_greenwood)
Registered Member Username: Bob_greenwood Post Number: 101 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 63.233.40.143 Rating: |
every bus 'seems' to be rebuilt 50,000 miles ago,ask to see the paperwork on the repairs, if they don't have them,it's a pretty good bet,it never happened | ||
| Dale Waller (Happycampersrus)
Registered Member Username: Happycampersrus Post Number: 228 Registered: 7-2005 Posted From: 68.65.122.187 Rating: |
Great point Bob, I look (everyday) at the buses on e place and every one of them will say recent rebuild. I have never understood how these folks can rebuild these engines, then sell the bus for LESS than the rebuilt engine cost just a few months later. If I am gonna spend that kinda money I plan on keeping the bus. | ||
| Thomas Weeks (Buscrazytom)
Registered Member Username: Buscrazytom Post Number: 23 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 66.188.77.156 Rating: N/A |
Thanks Dale and Bob! No truer words have been spoken, I'm sure! You guys have educated me well enough that I know to hire a bus mech. before I write the big check. I usually want to go look at any vehicle I buy first, I can often spot a dog (and I don't mean ex-Greyhound  )and know when to run away. If I think somethings o.k., then I get the mechanic to show me why I'm wrong... Tom | ||
| Thomas Weeks (Buscrazytom)
Registered Member Username: Buscrazytom Post Number: 24 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 66.188.77.156 Rating: N/A |
Oh, by the by, how many, size and type batteries will it take to crank this beast? Thanks Tom | ||
| RJ Long (Rjlong)
Registered Member Username: Rjlong Post Number: 997 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 71.195.113.23 Rating: |
That big Detroit takes a lot more than a couple of Honda batteries to get it running. Especially if it's been sitting for any length of time. The PD4107s came with two 8D batteries with around 1200 CCA capacity each. Sam's Club carries them for about $120 each - or about a buck a pound. (Yep, that's how heavy they are!) Many busnuts, after removing the heavy electical consuming HVAC system, replace the 8Ds with three or four Group 31s, to get the amperage needed. HTH. . . | ||
| Thomas Weeks (Buscrazytom)
Registered Member Username: Buscrazytom Post Number: 26 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 66.188.77.156 Rating: N/A |
Once again, many thanks RJ for keeping me on the straight and narrow! Thought I had read about 8D's on the board, just didn't know for sure how many. I just spoke with the owner not too long ago today via e-mail and asked him for the serial #, which I'd like you to check for me when I get it. He said it's ex-Greyhound. 'Ol girl's a bit cosmetically rough, but it has character, and if mechanically sound enough to be put on the road, it may be a good place for me to start getting my hands dirty. Now, who's the DD mechanic guru in the Atlanta area? Thanks again RJ Tom | ||
| Brian Brown (Blue_velvet)
Registered Member Username: Blue_velvet Post Number: 372 Registered: 6-2005 Posted From: 67.174.112.202 Rating: |
Tom, Another thing to check is the rear bulkhead where the Allison was installed (these buses did not come stock with the auto). Installing it requires cutting the bulkhead, so you might check and see how well it's been reinforced. I have a 4108 with a V730 and it makes for a nice, easy-to-drive coach. Please keep us posted, Brian Brown 4108-216 Longmont, CO | ||
| Thomas Weeks (Buscrazytom)
Registered Member Username: Buscrazytom Post Number: 27 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 66.188.77.156 Rating: N/A |
Excellent suggestion, Brian. So now I know why it's so hard to find an automatic Buffalo. Makes this an even better deal if the mechanics and structural solidity work out. Automatic out of the box is one of my firm criteria for this project. I don't want to have to change a tranny from jumpstreet. I've seen pictures of your "SpaceShip", nice man! What are the major differences, if any, between the '07 & '08? How will I know what to look for as "correct" reinforcement for the bulkhead? I must admit to being a bit relieved now that I've determined that I can work my design in 35' with no significant sacrifices. Gives me a lot more options for a coach shell, and might make it easier in some of the heavily urban environments I'll be driving in. Thanks, Tom Weeks Stupid Bus Newbie, among other things Athens, GA | ||
| Greg Peterson (Gpmci102)
Registered Member Username: Gpmci102 Post Number: 15 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 71.228.18.37 Rating: |
Not if it is cold outside. Reminds me of many years ago when I had a Buick with one of those converted Olds V8 to diesels deals GM did back then. It had two huge car batteries to spin it over and light the glow plugs. One winter it got down to about 0 or less and I was parked in a lot at work. I had to get a guy with a corvette to jump one of my batteries and a guy with a truck to jump the other battery at the same time. They first put some charge in my batteries and then revved up their engines while I cranked my diesel. It really spun a lot before it ran. I think I just plain heated the engine up with compression. I never will have a diesel car or pickup truck again, unless I move down South. | ||
| John MC9 (John_mc9)
Registered Member Username: John_mc9 Post Number: 68 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 71.41.217.54 Rating: |
I had a diesel Mercedes, few Peugeots and a few VW diesels in sub-zero Massachusetts.... Never a problem with decent batteries! Group 31's will do the job of the 8D's, if you're not trying to run all the 24v (or 12v) crap while you're trying to start it. The 8D's were designed in, to compensate for the heavy use of DC while the bus was being used for passenger transportation comfort.... All you're trying to do with a bus conversion, is trying to start it. (you really don't need all that reserve capacity) | ||
| Thomas Weeks (Buscrazytom)
Registered Member Username: Buscrazytom Post Number: 28 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 66.188.77.156 Rating: |
Greg, I can sympathize on the GM diesel cars. I bought an Olds Cutlass Diesel (used) back in the late 80's. Lasted a week. From what I understand they were modified gas engines and not true diesels. John, thanks for explaining the differences between the different applications. Bob, RJ wasn't wrong, he was merely telling me that 8D's are what came stock in that particular bus. No harm, no foul on anyone here. I thank all of you for sharing your experiences and opinions with me as I forge ahead on this journey. Thanks all, Tom | ||
| Bob greenwood (Bob_greenwood)
Registered Member Username: Bob_greenwood Post Number: 105 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 65.139.18.217 Rating: |
I would not suggest 8D's to anybody,they have a one year guarantee,car batterys are 3 to 5 year | ||
| Mel La Plante (Mel_4104)
Registered Member Username: Mel_4104 Post Number: 12 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 208.181.100.6 Rating: |
Tom that was good thinking, you sorted out what was being said and got what you wanted . yes you can start the 8v71 with 2 heavy car batteries if the motor is in fair to good shape and the weather is warn . before you try to start it see if it has a block heater in it as alot of them do having been run in cold weather. even where you live it would be best to add one if you get the bus as they just love to be warm when you try to start them. so with the block heater you will not need 2- 8ds but can get by with 2- 31s as you will not have all the need for big batteries aas when it was in service. DO NOT use starting fluid to try and start the engine as this can cause major damage, apply heat instead, if the guy reaches for the starting fluid can get a mechanic to check the engine for broken rings,even if you see a empty can laying around be carefull. | ||
| Brian Brown (Blue_velvet)
Registered Member Username: Blue_velvet Post Number: 373 Registered: 6-2005 Posted From: 67.174.112.202 Rating: |
Tom, The most major difference between the '07 & '08 is the '08 is a 24v system. The batteries are in diff. places, IIRC. Mine are on the driver's side, just forward of the radiator... makes for really short start wires. The air filter only draws from the pax side on the '08. There's a few other minor things. I've had 12v coaches and 24v coaches (2 of each, actually), and much prefer the low-amperage, smaller wires of a 24v system. A 24v starter doesn't so much crank the engine as blast it instantly to life. Once things get cold, the 12v starters draw an enormous amount of current, and the smallest defect in a wire or connection can heat up cables, melt connections, run down batts, and lead to major starting issues. If you do buy a 12v coach, I'd spend a LOT of time and a few bucks cleaning up every high-draw connection in your system. Another nice thing about the 24v coaches is the alternators crank out a MASSIVE amount of wattage. Usually double what the 12v coaches can do. They could easily drive a couple of roof airs through a 24v inverter, and you can push more wattage through smaller wires if you buy a big inverter. 12v inverters past 3000w are difficult to find, and pull enough amps to be frightening. Voltage drop is much more crippling to 12v. Buying bulbs for 24v is more expen$ive, and dealing with 12v house items requires a converter (some use an equalizer). In my mind, though, this lets one focus on using 120v AC items fed off of the inverter in much of the conversion, and enjoying better selection/ lower price found on lights and convience items from the household market. I too find the 35' footprint a better match for my family's lifestyle than a 40'er. We can park the coach in the typical end-to-end parking spaces (2 @ 18' long). Many state parks prohibit any motorhome longer than 35'. We've found several in CA and TX where that's the case, anyways. Wheelbase is a bit shorter than a 40' three-axle, and WAY shorter than a 40' Buff, so it gets around town easier. Probably doesn't ride as nice, though. The v-drive limitations are the biggest issue with GMC parlors, IMHO (Scenics are t-drive, however). The V730 robs MPH and MPG over the Spicer, although it's not a big of a speed penalty in the 35' Buffs as the 40's because the rear end is a lower ratio. However, the drivability and ease of manuvering with an auto makes the difference on where we can take our coach... so we can't go back to a stick. You're wise to look for a coach with an auto, because it's a MAJOR transplant that can have some big issues if it's not done right. And you'll never see that $ back if you try to resell. I guess I'm getting long-winded here, but those are some things I've observed through the years. Brian | ||
| Thomas Weeks (Buscrazytom)
Registered Member Username: Buscrazytom Post Number: 29 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 66.188.77.156 Rating: N/A |
Bob, real good point on the differences in the warranties. Mel, I fully agree about the engine heater, even in the south. Have been victim of several auto engine blocks being cracked during winter and numerous freeze plugs. Thanks for the heads up on the starter fluid no-no. Brian, no problem with long wind of good info. I'm a fan of 24v electrical systems also, and will probably convert any coach I buy to 24v for all of the reasons you've stated. Considering I will be using my coach in my electronics engineering business, I have very specific electrical needs for my application here, so by the time I'm finished, this thing will be a rolling substation to say the least... If I can't locate a commercial inverter to do what I need, I'll just build it. Learned my lesson with trannys on a Ford minivan. 1 used transmission, 1 major rebuild, 6 months and $7K later it still wouldn't do it's job right. I could have slapped myself. (Wait, I did...) Could'nt imagine going through that on a bus, so I've gotta get it right the first time. What? Resale value? I'm rolling in the floor, man! If I can get this done, I never really plan on selling it, even if I sell my business, I'll probably just keep it, remodel a bit and roll off into the sunset. Besides, when I die, they'll have to bury me in it for lack of funds to pay for coffin .... BTW, what again should I look for as correct bulkhead reinforcement? Thanks all, for your knowledge and indulgence Tom | ||
| Brian Brown (Blue_velvet)
Registered Member Username: Blue_velvet Post Number: 374 Registered: 6-2005 Posted From: 67.174.112.202 Rating: |
Tom, Oh yeah, bulkheads... Make sure that the hole that was made for the tranny change has been beefed up with some extra metal and bolts, rivets, etc. Hopefully, the hole is not jagged and irregular, which can lead to some spider-cracks. The bulkheads all the way across should be flat and not bent or torn. My '08 had a flat sheet of steel added across the back of the rear bay in addition to a layer of steel and bolts at the actual bulkhead, but I doubt that this is typical. There's also some add'l. loads put on the roof and rear skin from the extra tranny weight, so make sure it's relatively flat back there. Some oil-canning between the ribs is pretty normal, but sight down the coach and look for any major sags or shifts. HTH, Brian | ||
| Thomas Weeks (Buscrazytom)
Registered Member Username: Buscrazytom Post Number: 30 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 66.188.77.156 Rating: N/A |
Brian, Thanks for clearing that up, I'll look at that real close. I've been told that when you think about GM coach structural issues, to think in terms of aircraft engineering & construction. I can see why. Thanks Tom | ||
| Thomas Weeks (Buscrazytom)
Registered Member Username: Buscrazytom Post Number: 31 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 66.188.77.156 Rating: N/A |
Well, I promised I'd let all of you know how this was turning out. I find it amazing how some folks will outrun a Greyhound getting away from you when you demand they tell you the truth. Two days now after having requested a serial # on this coach and reciepts and data for the alleged rebuild, the owner won't answer my communications. Guess they have something to hide....and wasn't expecting an educated buyer...oh well, my money's still safe, so onward and upward. Thanks all of you for your info and input. If nothing else, I know more than I did before. Tom |
