| Author | Message | ||
| Mark & Michele (Busnut_pd4106)
Registered Member Username: Busnut_pd4106 Post Number: 79 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 68.19.23.138 Rating: N/A |
We sold our second 4106 a few months ago. The current owner called to say he is having trouble. He poured 7 gallons of water into the oil filler, thinking he was adding water to the radiator. We are currently in someones parking lot now draining the oil/water mixture. We plan to add 7 gallons of 40 wt and send him on his way. We advised him to change the oil again as soon as possible. Did we advise him correctly? Also what damage did he cause? PS he only was able to drive about 10 miles before the engine shotdown. | ||
| Dale Waller (Happycampersrus)
Registered Member Username: Happycampersrus Post Number: 264 Registered: 7-2005 Posted From: 69.19.14.22 Rating: N/A |
Hey Mark, Was it just water?? or was it Antifreeze?? If just water, Have him change the oil again, maybe twice. If it was antifreeze, there is a procedure to flush it from the block. What caused the engine to shut down after 10 miles?? Was it low oil pressure?? Dale | ||
| Bob greenwood (Bob_greenwood)
Registered Member Username: Bob_greenwood Post Number: 262 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 4.90.29.85 Rating: N/A |
I agree...run it for 10 or 15 minutes...see if you have oil pressure..& drain it,know it sounds expencive,but,it will be more expencive to have any leftover water in the place oil is supposed to be 1 | ||
| Bob greenwood (Bob_greenwood)
Registered Member Username: Bob_greenwood Post Number: 263 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 4.90.29.85 Rating: N/A |
I'd put the cheapest oil I could find in the first time,then your regular oil 2 | ||
| Bob greenwood (Bob_greenwood)
Registered Member Username: Bob_greenwood Post Number: 264 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 4.90.29.85 Rating: N/A |
I'd also be interisted in hearing what shut it down & if it was knocking , NEW OIL FILTERS TOO 3 | ||
| David Hartley (Drdave)
Registered Member Username: Drdave Post Number: 691 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 67.78.176.54 Rating: N/A |
If it was a low oil pressure shutdown then it's possible that only a little damage was done to the bearings. My guess would be that since oil floats on top of water that more serious damage may have been the result which would mean a complete tear down and replacement of all bearings due to the oil pump sending non-lubricating water through the whole engine. ( Blower bearings, main & rod bearings, injector and lifter and cam bearings and a whole lot of other stuff is probably toast now. I guess the question is that was the oil drained out and water added as if it was oil? Then there would not have been any oil in the engine. Mentioning of 7 gallons of water put into the engine suggests just that. Is the engine siezed up now? Or How can anybody mistake an oil filler for a radiator filler... That's just unreal. They aren't even on the same location on the engine. | ||
| Bob greenwood (Bob_greenwood)
Registered Member Username: Bob_greenwood Post Number: 265 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 4.90.24.82 Rating: N/A |
yep.. if it was knocking or if it overheated,it's toast, failure to tell us what the 'shutdown' was is kinda preventing a good decision on what to do next.like he said,oil is now on the top & the oil pick-up on the bottom of the pan, is picking up pure water 4 | ||
| FAST FRED (Fast_fred)
Registered Member Username: Fast_fred Post Number: 14 Registered: 10-2006 Posted From: 4.245.170.128 Rating: N/A |
Guess this bus didn't come with Da Book? FAST FRED | ||
| Bob greenwood (Bob_greenwood)
Registered Member Username: Bob_greenwood Post Number: 266 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 4.90.24.166 Rating: N/A |
MUCH silence from Mark & Michele, no grown male would really do such a thing,this must be a joke 5 | ||
| Mark & Michele (Busnut_pd4106)
Registered Member Username: Busnut_pd4106 Post Number: 80 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 68.19.23.138 Rating: N/A |
No joke fellows! We followed your advise, drained the bad oil/water mixture, ran the engine for 15 minutes then changed the oil a second time. However we did not change the filter. The bus seem to be running ok now. The bus has a slow leak coming from the compartment just behind the passenger door. A heater hose connected to radiator some how burst. The bus shutdown because of lack of water/coolant. Someone gave him bad directions about where to add the water. If Michele and I were available at the time you know this would not have happen. when he finally got in touch with us the damage was already done. On his behalf, I would like to say thank you to everyone that responded. | ||
| Bob greenwood (Bob_greenwood)
Registered Member Username: Bob_greenwood Post Number: 269 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 4.90.24.166 Rating: N/A |
you do realize there is water in the filter ??? 6 | ||
| Dale Waller (Happycampersrus)
Registered Member Username: Happycampersrus Post Number: 265 Registered: 7-2005 Posted From: 66.82.9.62 Rating: N/A |
Mark, Most likely the engine is fine. The oil filter should have been changed also, but I don't believe enough water would have been in the filter to really thin out the oil. If you can get in touch with him tell him to change the oil once more and change the filter. Also make sure he is using the correct oil and correct antifreeze after he has the leak repaired. Fred brings up a great point, make sure to tell him to get the proper manuals. I see this sort of problem almost on a regular basis working on heavy equipment someone will take a intake pipe loose or remove an air filter cover to use his can of starting fluid and several days later we get a call for an engine full of rain water. Nothing like an oil change in the middle of the woods. I love my job! Dale | ||
| Mark & Michele (Busnut_pd4106)
Registered Member Username: Busnut_pd4106 Post Number: 81 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 68.19.23.138 Rating: N/A |
Thanks Bob, yes we do realize that the filter has water in it. I am sure he will change the filter when he is able to. Since I sold this bus I've had to rescue it three times. Twice from being impounded and now with this current problem. | ||
| H3-40 (Ace)
Registered Member Username: Ace Post Number: 315 Registered: 10-2004 Posted From: 75.201.244.227 Rating: N/A |
Well I'm glad to hear that SOME buyers actually keep in touch with the people that sold them a vehicle. I've sold TWO busses, both at good deals and both in very good condition and have yet to see or hear from either party. I think it would be cool to see someone else at a rally or such using what you created and then passed on, but then again, there are those times like this where Mark and Michelle have had to help out. Thanks to people like them, it gives buyers a feeling that there are good honest sellers still around and ones that are willing to help out (when needed) but I for one don't think that a seller should be married to a sale. It's ok to help out and advise after the sale but to "continuesly" be there is a no-no. I would change the filter and oil as many times as needed until I knew that all the water was gone and he should be good to go! Ace | ||
| Thomas Weeks (Buscrazytom)
Registered Member Username: Buscrazytom Post Number: 54 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 66.188.77.156 Rating: N/A |
Hey all, Isn't there some sort of "oil dryer" liquid you can add to the oil to help evaporate the water? Seems like I recall something like this for gas engines, but I wouldn't want to stick it in a DD without knowing for sure. BusCrazyTom the Analog Dinosaur Stupid Bus Newbie  | ||
| Bob greenwood (Bob_greenwood)
Registered Member Username: Bob_greenwood Post Number: 270 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 4.90.25.56 Rating: N/A |
just keep changeing it till it doesn't look milky...always look at the top of the radiator,the filler is NEVER lower than the top of the radiator 7 | ||
| David Hartley (Drdave)
Registered Member Username: Drdave Post Number: 692 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 67.78.176.54 Rating: N/A |
Thomas, You are thinking about adding Methyl Alcohol or ( DriGas) and it's only used in Gas tanks , Not engine oil ! . Feed that to a 2-stroke Detroit and you will give yourself a stroke when it blows up. (DriGas) will goo-out rubber fuel lines on a lawnmower in a matter of hours if you get too much in the tank. The rubber absorbs the alcohol and swells the lines closed. ( Nasty stuff ! )... The only things that you should ever do to a Detroit is add oil as needed ( the right Kind! ), Keep the fuel tank full to reduce condensation and always use the factory recommended ( RED ) antifreeze. ( Not the green stuff ~ever~ ). To M & M, On the other Note about having to rescue a bus that you have sold. What's the deal there? Did you get your money back including an aggravation charge? You might have to REPO it to save if from being destroyed at this point if the damage hasn't already been done. This guy sounds like he doesn't need a bus he needs an old WinniBagle. and someone to hold his hands in his pockets when he gets an Idea on how to do it hisself...<grin> | ||
| Douglas Wotring (Tekebird)
Registered Member Username: Tekebird Post Number: 2 Registered: 10-2004 Posted From: 69.136.90.146 Rating: N/A |
Thomas, you didn't give the guy manuals with the bus? | ||
| H3-40 (Ace)
Registered Member Username: Ace Post Number: 316 Registered: 10-2004 Posted From: 75.201.244.227 Rating: N/A |
"The only things that you should ever do to a Detroit is add oil as needed ( the right Kind! ), Keep the fuel tank full to reduce condensation and always use the factory recommended ( RED ) antifreeze. ( Not the green stuff ~ever~ )." Funny my DD 8v92 has always had the green stuff and never a problem. What gives? Ace | ||
| Douglas Wotring (Tekebird)
Registered Member Username: Tekebird Post Number: 4 Registered: 10-2004 Posted From: 69.136.90.146 Rating: N/A |
green stuff does not mix well with other types...makes a sludge. but the main reason is that the green stuff sulfates and causes corrosion internally | ||
| Dale Waller (Happycampersrus)
Registered Member Username: Happycampersrus Post Number: 266 Registered: 7-2005 Posted From: 69.19.14.40 Rating: N/A |
What did Detroit Diesel do before "red" antifreeze came along?? | ||
| H3-40 (Ace)
Registered Member Username: Ace Post Number: 318 Registered: 10-2004 Posted From: 75.201.244.227 Rating: N/A |
Who said anything about mixing anything with it. It's ALL green except for the H2O and that's clear! Green has worked for many years in my dad's DD DIESEL trucks for many MANY miles and his and mine passenger cars and trucks with no problems over the last who knows how many years and miles. I don't see a problem using the green and my DD DIESEL came with it and has been in it with absolutely NO PROBLEMS and I'm not changing to red just because it's new and someone says to! I'm sure the red has it's applications but I don't think it's a must do situation IMHO! Ace | ||
| Douglas Wotring (Tekebird)
Registered Member Username: Tekebird Post Number: 6 Registered: 10-2004 Posted From: 69.136.90.146 Rating: N/A |
red has been around for years....... nothing too wrong with green except it corrodes certain metals...like aluminum. this stuff then ends up clogging the radiator.... I've seen aluminum parts exposed to green for less than a year showing significant corrosion..... and seen aluminum elbows corrode through ( in unknown timeframe) may never have a problem...and I wouldn't run out and change just for this reason.... but if your coolant is down or your removing it for some other reason I would swap. 1959 4104 Red in DD and Gen 1975 MC-8 Green in DD and gen 1985 MB 300sd Green 2004 Ford F-250 Red 2000 Triumph Sprint ST Red 2001 Husqvarna 570TE red. all will be red when it coolant is drained for whatever reason Oh yeah, I understand the red is less likely to cavitate | ||
| Thomas Weeks (Buscrazytom)
Registered Member Username: Buscrazytom Post Number: 55 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 66.188.77.156 Rating: N/A |
Tekebird, It was Mark who sold the bus, not me. I was looking at buying this at one time, but it didn't work out. Tom | ||
| Thomas Weeks (Buscrazytom)
Registered Member Username: Buscrazytom Post Number: 56 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 66.188.77.156 Rating: N/A |
Dr. Dave, Thanks for that good info re: the DriGas, sounds like nasty stuff under any conditions. Thanks Tom | ||
| Gus Causbie (Gusc)
Registered Member Username: Gusc Post Number: 217 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 63.97.117.50 Rating: N/A |
Ace, Same here. I never put anything but green in my 6-71 because the manual says so. If there is any Al in a 6-71 I presume the alloy is proper for green AF since that is all that was available in 1954. My guess is that switching to red would be a disaster. | ||
| Bob greenwood (Bob_greenwood)
Registered Member Username: Bob_greenwood Post Number: 273 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 4.90.31.143 Rating: N/A |
for some reason, red seems distasteful tonight 8 | ||
| William Sloan (Ole_timer)
Registered Member Username: Ole_timer Post Number: 2 Registered: 9-2006 Posted From: 24.231.212.157 Rating: N/A |
Hi All I believe That DD calls for low silicate antifreeze,what ever color it may be.You can find it at good part stores not Wal-mart. Good Luck Ole_timer | ||
| JJ Woden (Jj_woden)
Registered Member Username: Jj_woden Post Number: 1 Registered: 10-2006 Posted From: 65.19.246.49 Rating: |
To remove any residual moisture in the crankcase, just run at operating temperature. The moisture will evaporate and leave as blow-by. This is ONLY after all the other advice above has been followed as it will not remove large quantities of water quickly. JJ | ||
| David Dulmage (Daved)
Registered Member Username: Daved Post Number: 143 Registered: 12-2003 Posted From: 142.46.199.30 Rating: N/A |
William is right. You need to use antifreeze designed for use in diesel engines. The right stuff will state this on the container. You should also use de-ionized water to make the correct mix, not regular tap water. My antifreeze has always been green in colour. FWIW DaveD | ||
| John Ferguson (Jarlaxle)
Registered Member Username: Jarlaxle Post Number: 22 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 4.174.109.166 Rating: N/A |
Forget all this which-coolant stuff...run Evans NPG+ and never worry. | ||
| FAST FRED (Fast_fred)
Registered Member Username: Fast_fred Post Number: 18 Registered: 10-2006 Posted From: 4.245.230.52 Rating: N/A |
The antifreez from the local DD store works just fine. Dexcool? FAST FRED | ||
| John Ferguson (Jarlaxle)
Registered Member Username: Jarlaxle Post Number: 26 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 4.174.106.156 Rating: N/A |
Evans works better. Period. Whatever is in there, Evans works better. It really IS that good. It doesn't boil, it doesn't freeze, it doesn't corrode...Evans is better. Current tally: three cars, 1 diesel pickup, 1 diesel Blazer running NPG. I'd run straight water before I ran DexClog. | ||
| David Dulmage (Daved)
Registered Member Username: Daved Post Number: 145 Registered: 12-2003 Posted From: 142.46.199.30 Rating: N/A |
It looks like, from the information on the Evans website, that NPG is not compatible with any amount of water. Since Evans recommends the use of their decontaminent to rinse the last residue of any antifreeze or water from a cooling system, before switching to NPG, one would need to carry some quantity of replacement NPG in case of an unexpected loss of coolant. If there was a major loss (e.g. due to a blown hose), this could be a problem, unless there was an adequate supply of NPG available. I'm not sure that Evans NPG enhanced capabilities, such as its 375 degree boiling point are all that relevant, given that the normal operating temperature of a DD is in to 180 - 195 degree range. At around $32.00 per U.S gallon, it seems to be a rather expensive approach. The amount of NPG in the system will be 100% or roughly twice the amount of antifreeze that would be installed with a typcal antifreeze/water mix. FWIW Dave Dulmage | ||
| Dale Waller (Happycampersrus)
Registered Member Username: Happycampersrus Post Number: 274 Registered: 7-2005 Posted From: 69.19.14.41 Rating: N/A |
$500 bucks for antifreeze?? What a deal! My bus holds 14 gallons, so I use a good quaility low silicate formula rated for Detroit Diesel engines and use distilled water bought at WalMart. |
