| Author | Message | ||
| Mark & Michele (Busnut_pd4106)
Registered Member Username: Busnut_pd4106 Post Number: 84 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 68.17.5.130 Rating: N/A |
We would like some advice from the board as to which tools we will need in order to remove and replace the manifold and starter on our 4106. We have absolutely no experience doing this, but we are confident that we can pull it off despite our lack of experience. like anything we know if we have the right attitude, tools and advice it will make the job so much easier. | ||
| Bob greenwood (Bob_greenwood)
Registered Member Username: Bob_greenwood Post Number: 309 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 4.90.24.225 Rating: N/A |
1/2 inch socket set,1/2 inch ratchet,1/2 inch breakover,channel locks,all available at harbor frieght,get the impact sockets,should cost about 50.00 | ||
| RJ Long (Rjlong)
Registered Member Username: Rjlong Post Number: 1092 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 67.181.163.170 Rating: N/A |
Mark - Bob's list is good, and works very well, especially on T-drive coaches like his. Since your '06 is a V-drive, you've got to get a little creative with the same tools, since the starter sits on the bulkhead side of the engine. Over the years, a couple of different suggestions have come up for replacing the starter. One is to remove the access panel inside the coach, and work from above. Another is to block up the coach and work from the cubby space between the back axle and the bulkhead. Be aware that the starter is HEAVY, so plan accordingly. Some have rigged up a support thru the access panel (think hammock) to hold it in place while undoing all the nuts/bolts, others have had another body available to assist. However, before you attempt this thankless job, are you sure you've got to replace the starter? Try pulling off just the solenoid, cleaning and reinstalling to see if that solves the problem. FIWI & HTH. . .  | ||
| Bob greenwood (Bob_greenwood)
Registered Member Username: Bob_greenwood Post Number: 310 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 4.90.26.79 Rating: N/A |
unhook battery cabels from battery FIRST thing when takeing the starter off, leave the top bolt in till the last (Message edited by bob greenwood on October 31, 2006) (Message edited by bob greenwood on October 31, 2006) | ||
| sylverstone (Sylverstone_pd4501864)
Registered Member Username: Sylverstone_pd4501864 Post Number: 217 Registered: 7-2005 Posted From: 216.173.223.253 Rating: N/A |
i actually found a nice set of deepwell impact sockets at wall mart for less than harbor freight, and they were stanleys. rj is *not* kidding when he says it's heavy. -dd | ||
| don (Bottomacher)
Registered Member Username: Bottomacher Post Number: 147 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 72.15.81.101 Rating: N/A |
I was grateful for my set of stubby wrenches when I did mine (from above). You'll only forget the battery cable ONCE. | ||
| Chuck Lott (Chuckmc8)
Registered Member Username: Chuckmc8 Post Number: 185 Registered: 5-2004 Posted From: 72.152.148.123 Rating: N/A |
Mark, on my DD's, the starter bolts require a 12 point 9/16" socket to fit the bolts. Yours may be the same. Of course, I found this out on the road, and all I had was a 6pt socket.....a trip to Sears, so now I have one in my bus tool box... | ||
| Michael Malloy (Busnut06)
Registered Member Username: Busnut06 Post Number: 31 Registered: 6-2005 Posted From: 207.252.218.50 Rating: N/A |
Mark,Why are you pulling the starter. If it is a starting problem, I would start with cleaning all of the cable connections including the bulkhead connections. I learned this the hard way on our 06 Michael | ||
| Mark & Michele Blake (Busnut_pd4106)
Registered Member Username: Busnut_pd4106 Post Number: 85 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 68.214.28.226 Rating: N/A |
RJ we lost lost the lowest of the three bolts holding the starter in place. We were adviced that because the gears might be bind it was best to remove and reseat the starter. Thanks Bob and Chuckmc8 but will these tools also fit the bolts on the manifold? Many thanks to all! Mark | ||
| Bob greenwood (Bob_greenwood)
Registered Member Username: Bob_greenwood Post Number: 311 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 4.90.26.89 Rating: N/A |
that set ( 7/16 to 1 inch ) will fit 95% of the bolts on your bus...be sure not to buy metric..look for s.a.e. (Message edited by bob greenwood on November 01, 2006) | ||
| Mark & Michele Blake (Busnut_pd4106)
Registered Member Username: Busnut_pd4106 Post Number: 86 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 68.214.28.226 Rating: N/A |
lol I was afraid to ask about metric but I saw SAE somewhere which I assume is an American standard. | ||
| Tim Strommen (Tim_strommen)
Registered Member Username: Tim_strommen Post Number: 243 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 64.186.173.26 Rating: N/A |
SAE = Society of Automotive Engineers and is a U.S. Standards Group ("the great thing about standards is that there's so many to choose from!") -Tim | ||
| Richard Bowyer (Drivingmisslazy)
Registered Member Username: Drivingmisslazy Post Number: 1733 Registered: 1-2001 Posted From: 75.108.82.163 Rating: N/A |
In addition to SAE and Metric, there are still some tools built to the Wentworth standard floating around that I have seen. I believe this was an English standard, but whatever, they do not fit anything you are likely to run into here. Richard | ||
| Mark & Michele Blake (Busnut_pd4106)
Registered Member Username: Busnut_pd4106 Post Number: 87 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 216.9.250.6 Rating: |
Bought the tools recommended, but having hard tiMe with the tight space and getting socket to fit, also I was not expecting coolant when i tried to remove manifold. I am at the bus now typing on the crackberry. Heading back to wal-mart, for more tools. Pics: http://www.geocities.com/crazy4buses/starter.html (Message edited by busnut_pd4106 on November 02, 2006) (Message edited by busnut_pd4106 on November 02, 2006) | ||
| David Dulmage (Daved)
Registered Member Username: Daved Post Number: 147 Registered: 12-2003 Posted From: 142.46.199.30 Rating: N/A |
I have an old Austin car that uses British Wentworth Standard (BSW) fasteners. There was a time when you could walk into an auto parts store and buy BSW tools over the counter, but I'm not sure where you would find them now. Of course there was also a time when I could walk in and order a muffler for this car, and it was in stock but it's been more than thirty years since that was possible.  (Message edited by DaveD on November 02, 2006) | ||
| Dale Waller (Happycampersrus)
Registered Member Username: Happycampersrus Post Number: 277 Registered: 7-2005 Posted From: 66.82.9.83 Rating: N/A |
Hey Mark, When you pull the manifold if the stud comes out instead of the nut coming off you will get coolant. Guess you know that now. LOL. If you have some long 3/8" bolts or all thread you can plug the hole pretty quick. I haven't ever heard of them called "crackberry"!! LMAO HTH, Dale | ||
| Tom Caffrey (Pvcces)
Registered Member Username: Pvcces Post Number: 1008 Registered: 5-2001 Posted From: 65.74.65.54 Rating: N/A |
Mark, it's really not too hard to take the manifold bolts out to move it aside; the trouble comes when you try to put it back in place. If you fail to get it fully flush to the head, and tighten the bolts, it will be very easy to break the manifold, according to a heavy duty mechanic I know. The top bolt is likely missing because the last person to work on the starter did not have the right tools and or the right bolt. The bolt has a 9/16" 12 point head and it takes a manifold wrench to get on it. One other way you might get on it is with a wobble socket and a long extension. We got our wrench from Sears for around $17 and never leave home without it. Good luck on your starter. Tom Caffrey PD4106-2576 Suncatcher Ketchikan, Alaska | ||
| Mark & Michele Blake (Busnut_pd4106)
Registered Member Username: Busnut_pd4106 Post Number: 88 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 68.214.28.226 Rating: N/A |
I must say you guys are the best and saved us a lot of dough too. One mechanic quoted us $300. Time was what it cost us and a $39 tool kit from Home Depot. We bought one new battery and having another slow charge for three days. A starter bolt was given to us free of charge from the parts dept at Williams Detroit Atlanta, they were very friendly and helpful. I installed the bolt, installed the new battery. We heard the motor turning the first time. Michele sprayed the starter fluid twice the second time still the bus didn't start. Now we've decided to give it a break. Maybe we will give it another try this weekend when the second battery is ready, and the weather is better. Thanks for the tip Tom I did'nt know I could break the manifold in that way and thanks to everyone for this helpful thread. | ||
| Dale Waller (Happycampersrus)
Registered Member Username: Happycampersrus Post Number: 278 Registered: 7-2005 Posted From: 69.19.14.38 Rating: N/A |
Mark To add to what Tom said about the manifold, The manifold will have some "tabs" on the bottom edge and the engine block will have some small ledges or blocks. They align the manifold to the head ports. The manifold tabs will set on top of those ledges to center the manifold properly on the head. IF you don't get tabs right it will crack the manifold when it is tightened. I have had good luck in the past by using a socket with an universal built on to it and use a long extension to get the bolt out. Sears or NAPA will have either a distributor or manifold wrench or a universal socket. HTH, Dale |
