| Author | Message | ||
| Henry 96A3 (Hank)
Registered Member Username: Hank Post Number: 61 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 69.129.124.111 Rating: N/A |
When I got my bus the steers had two different types of nuts on them. There were an equal number of each on both wheels and they were alternated one, then the other. One type of nut is flanged, the other has no flange (bud nut, right?) THe guy at the tire shop told me that the flanged nut is not DOT unless it has an intregal washer on the flange. I took one off and it didn't so I replaced all the nuts with bud nuts (non flanged). Now I'm beginning to wonder if that's correct. Anyone know what the scoop is on this? They're steel rims by the way. Thanks, Hank | ||
| Jack Conrad (Jackconrad)
Registered Member Username: Jackconrad Post Number: 492 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 166.165.160.60 Rating: N/A |
Not sure why, but I have seen a 96A3, several 102A3s and an MC-7 with this wheel nut combination. Jack | ||
| Bob greenwood (Bob_greenwood)
Registered Member Username: Bob_greenwood Post Number: 314 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 4.90.6.46 Rating: N/A |
the flanged nuts are for hub piloted wheels(look and see if your wheel just barely fits over your hub) | ||
| Henry 96A3 (Hank)
Registered Member Username: Hank Post Number: 62 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 69.129.124.111 Rating: N/A |
Well, that was the other thing. The flanged nuts did not leave any thread exposure on the stud-in fact they hung over the stud by a thread or to. The bud nuts show 2-4 threads. They appear to be piloted hub wheels tho' if I understand you correctly Bob. So, is it a problem (dangerous/illegal) to use the bud nuts all around on the steers? Thanks, Hank | ||
| Bob greenwood (Bob_greenwood)
Registered Member Username: Bob_greenwood Post Number: 316 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 4.90.6.46 Rating: N/A |
everything needs to match...maybe you have the wrong wheel also,does that wheel have chamford holes to match the angle on the nuts,or, is the wheel flat,with a hole drilled in it & no cone shaped hole? hope I said that correctly,so it's understandable | ||
| JR Lynch (Njt5047)
Registered Member Username: Njt5047 Post Number: 91 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 69.132.229.126 Rating: N/A |
This issue recently came up on the MAK board. The lug pattern you describe is consistant with Budd stud piloted wheels on the steering axle. The flange nuts have a "cone" on them. They alternate between the standard acorn nuts. The flange nuts offer lateral support to the wheel. Check and verify that the flange lugs are of the correct design, and leave them. You could have hub-piloted lugnuts on the wheel, which would be incorrect. Be sure that your flat looking lugnuts have the centering "cone" on the back. Hub piloted nuts don't have a cone...they are flat against the wheel. Best, JR | ||
| Henry 96A3 (Hank)
Registered Member Username: Hank Post Number: 63 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 69.129.124.111 Rating: N/A |
Here is a pic of the wheel with the Budd nuts...and the new and old nuts side by side. The flanged nut has the cone and all holes in the rim are beveled. The only thing is the issue of the flanged nuts not leaving any stud threads showing. I swear, I've gotten some of the worst info from truck repair places! SHould I return it to the original configuration? I'm assuming it's a no-no to not have a few threads of the stud showing? Hank   | ||
| Bob greenwood (Bob_greenwood)
Registered Member Username: Bob_greenwood Post Number: 317 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 4.90.6.46 Rating: N/A |
if the flanged nuts are cone shaped,I would put them on the wheel,, can't tell by little picture,yep, that's a hub piloted wheel...please paint the wheel white or grey...naaaa ....you do what you want with your bus | ||
| Jack Conrad (Jackconrad)
Registered Member Username: Jackconrad Post Number: 494 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 166.165.167.213 Rating: N/A |
If I recall correctly, hub piloted wheels have a smaller diameter stud with a different thread pitch. (or maybe I am thinking of something else)! Jack PS: Looks like a stud piloted wheel to me. (Message edited by JackConrad on November 06, 2006) | ||
| JR Lynch (Njt5047)
Registered Member Username: Njt5047 Post Number: 94 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 69.132.229.126 Rating: N/A |
The pix of the lugnuts (with the flat alternating lugs) shows a factory config on a lot of MCI coaches. The wheel is a stud-piloted lugnut design...if the wheel has bevels that match the lugnuts. If so,the lugnuts are correct. You may have a stud piloted wheel on a hub piloted hub?? Studs are different sizes for the two. You'll see that odd looking configuration on buses. Truck guys don't know this important stuff. You may have the wrong studs, but the lugnuts are likely OEM. I'd put'em back on the way it was. I'd also call Luke and see what he sez. It may not make any difference...but be careful changing systems based on truck guys opinions. I'd make a low-budget bet that the alternating lugs are OEM. Let us know... JR (Message edited by njt5047 on November 06, 2006) | ||
| David (Davidinwilmnc)
Registered Member Username: Davidinwilmnc Post Number: 140 Registered: 7-2005 Posted From: 71.77.223.78 Rating: N/A |
Now Jack, I know you've also seen an MC-8 with those alternating lug nustl. Mine has 'em. If you want to see pics of my nuts, here they are http://www.busconversions.com/bbs/index.php?topic=2194.0. I'm trying to remember the exact reason for the alternating nuts. I believe it had something to do with having more lateral strength when the bus turned or when the front wheels hit curbs. I don't know how much truth there is in this, but it kinda makes sense. David | ||
| Henry 96A3 (Hank)
Registered Member Username: Hank Post Number: 65 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 69.129.124.111 Rating: N/A |
Thanks guys. That definitely clears things up a lot. I'm going to restore it to the original configuration and ask Luke about it next time I place an order with him. I'll post what he says about it. BTW, I like my orange rims! Hank | ||
| Bob greenwood (Bob_greenwood)
Registered Member Username: Bob_greenwood Post Number: 320 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 4.227.2.39 Rating: N/A |
sorry....please accept my apoligy | ||
| David Dulmage (Daved)
Registered Member Username: Daved Post Number: 148 Registered: 12-2003 Posted From: 142.46.199.30 Rating: N/A |
For hub piloted wheels, all studs on both sides of the vehicle will have right handed threads. For stud piloted wheels, left handed threads are used on the left side of the vehicle and right handed threads are used on the right side of the vehicle. DaveD | ||
| Gus Causbie (Gusc)
Registered Member Username: Gusc Post Number: 227 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 63.97.117.38 Rating: N/A |
David, That is true if everything was done properly in the past. My 4104 had L & R studs but they were on the wrong sides!! | ||
| David Dulmage (Daved)
Registered Member Username: Daved Post Number: 149 Registered: 12-2003 Posted From: 66.78.121.184 Rating: N/A |
Gus, I've run into to that with an older Chrysler vehicle I own. I had it at a body shop and the front hubs were removed (the body man had never seen LH threads before - fortunately I was able to explain that to him before he broke any studs) and replaced on opposite sides so that I have LH studs on the front where the RH ones belong and vice versa. Dave D | ||
| Buswarrior (Buswarrior)
Registered Member Username: Buswarrior Post Number: 936 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 67.68.32.15 Rating: N/A |
Hello. Everyone here in Ontario has stopped mixing wheel fasteners. The Enforcement Crowd are laying charges. If it was I, here, I'd leave the full set of fasteners like in your picture. I doubt that anyone will find any documented support to mix the fasteners. The wheel end is either stud pilot (Budd) or hub pilot (washer style nuts). Use the right stuff for the right wheel end. We really don't want to attract the attention of the enforcement crowd, right or wrong, do we? happy coaching! buswarrior | ||
| JR Lynch (Njt5047)
Registered Member Username: Njt5047 Post Number: 96 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 69.132.229.126 Rating: N/A |
The "flanged" lugnuts that Hank described has a cone (in addition to the flange) on the backside for beveled (stud-piloted) Budd wheels. The "flanged" lugs used on hub piloted wheels are different...they have a flat backside with interlocking washers and would not engage the bevel that is milled into Budd wheels. Hanks lugs are OEM items. I believe the picture reflects the wrong lugnuts. The "flanged" OEMs have been removed and replaced with standard Budd acorns. The originals weren't mixed up. They were used in that odd alternating configuration to lower wheel center side loads. Supposedly much greater clamping force. That said, as Ross suggested, one must wonder which surface of the combo nut clamps onto the wheel first...the cone, or the flat flange. I'd be interested in what Luke has to offer on this. Interested, JR |