| Author | Message | ||
| David Ljung Madison (Daveola)
Registered Member Username: Daveola Post Number: 102 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 63.204.157.4 Rating: N/A |
The discussion about parking in Sacramento is rather topical for me right now. I've been parking my bus near a city park for about a year, moving it every three days to avoid the "72 hour" parking rule that many cities have but only enforce for "troublemakers" such as buses. I park with my wheels touching the curb, and I've actually measured the width of the lane next to the space I'm parking in to make sure there's enough room left over. This has been fine for a year with minimal problems. The police called me at one point early in the year to interrogate me about what I was doing with the bus, and every once in a while they put up "move this vehicle within 72 hours" notices, and I've always complied since I'm moving the bus regularly anyways. But yesterday morning while I was sleeping the police came along and towed it away as a "Hazard" I find this a bit nonsensical since: 1) There was still room to drive in the nearby lane. 2) They've evidently had no problem with it for an entire year, there's no reason to tow it suddenly with only 20 minutes warning (which I got to sleep through). So, I'm hoping to fight this ticket and tow, and I'm wondering if anyone else has had success in this arena? I plan on getting exact measurements of the road, although the parking code doesn't specify how much space is required or how much space we are allowed to use, so that's unfortunately up in the air. I get the impression that there isn't much I can do to fight the city on this, but I figure it's worth a try. Any advice? | ||
| sylverstone (Sylverstone_pd4501864)
Registered Member Username: Sylverstone_pd4501864 Post Number: 227 Registered: 7-2005 Posted From: 216.173.223.253 Rating: N/A |
1) you should get a lawyer, since they're going to nail you for the tow. 2) if they don't show up you automatically win. 3) if you're legal width, and legal height, and there is not a specific law that prohibits you parking there, you will win. 4) you may win anyway, simply because you can prove it wasn't a hazzard for over a year. collect all your paperwork, re: warnings, etc. and go find a lawyer. -dd | ||
| Jerry Campbell (Jerrync)
Registered Member Username: Jerrync Post Number: 26 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 76.182.44.149 Rating: N/A |
Why are you going round and round the park for a year | ||
| David Ljung Madison (Daveola)
Registered Member Username: Daveola Post Number: 103 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 63.204.157.4 Rating: N/A |
*laugh* I am parking on the street while I'm converting. Not ideal, but I don't have land to work on. I park it on the park so it's not in front of anyone's houses, no need to intentionally piss people off. | ||
| David Ljung Madison (Daveola)
Registered Member Username: Daveola Post Number: 104 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 63.204.157.4 Rating: N/A |
Syl, do you really think a lawyer is going to be worth it? I guess there's the long-term benefits as well. The tow was about $400. I was actually surprised it wasn't more. It didn't look like they disconnected the drive axle, but they did break into the bus (cut the door lock) presumably to take off the parking brake. Perhaps they towed it from the rear? According to police I've talked to previously, legal width is not all there is to it. As I understand it, there's no requirement on the city to provide parking that can fit vehicles up to maximum width, so they can claim the space wasn't big enough to fit my bus. They cited the bus as a "Hazard" saying that it was blocking the lane of traffic. A good point about the fact that it's been there for a year, so if there was a hazard, then something would have happened by now. | ||
| Douglas Wotring (Tekebird)
Registered Member Username: Tekebird Post Number: 21 Registered: 10-2004 Posted From: 69.136.90.146 Rating: N/A |
how are you going to prove it was there for a year | ||
| Bob greenwood (Bob_greenwood)
Registered Member Username: Bob_greenwood Post Number: 324 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 4.226.237.135 Rating: N/A |
where did you see a buzzard | ||
| John Ferguson (Jarlaxle)
Registered Member Username: Jarlaxle Post Number: 38 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 4.174.103.69 Rating: N/A |
You're boned. If you fight this, just sell the bus now, because you will never have a moment's peace with it again. EVERYONE involved--parking police, tow company, town employees--will go out of their way to make your life miserable. Expect slashed tires, contaminated fuel, mysteriously broken mirrors, windows, & lights, and very probably regular tickets. Replace the door & eBay it, or pay the tow & find somewhere else to keep it. | ||
| David Ljung Madison (Daveola)
Registered Member Username: Daveola Post Number: 105 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 63.204.157.4 Rating: N/A |
As I mentioned, about a year ago (when I first got the bus) the police called me and demanded that I meet them at the bus to ask me why I had a bus. The phrase "Did I commit a crime, officer?" comes to mind. Furthermore, they've put 72 hour notices on it every so often to remind me that I need to move it every three days, as I have. I received one notice after being parked in a spot for about two hours.  They know the bus, I don't think they'd deny or pretend to have seen it before. | ||
| David Ljung Madison (Daveola)
Registered Member Username: Daveola Post Number: 106 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 63.204.157.4 Rating: N/A |
I'm not currently planning on selling the bus. And the lock was broken, not the door. Already fixed. I'm not sure the police in SF would hold that high a grudge to vandalize the bus, especially considering that this is a fairly liberal and politically charged atmosphere. A security camera on the bus (an eventuality in my plans) would make for some amusing newspaper story on cops damaging property, wouldn't it? And Bob: a buzzard?? | ||
| Kyle Pesely (Kylexisxrad)
Registered Member Username: Kylexisxrad Post Number: 73 Registered: 12-2005 Posted From: 216.220.208.125 Rating: N/A |
man, dave. that makes my parking problem seem like beans. I'm sorry that they towed you. that's just an annoying waste of your money when they do that, because it doesn't cost them NEAR that to come tow it a few miles. if I'm in SF anytime soon ill buy you a coffee and we can sit down and complain about our parking woes. haha. kyle in norcal 1980 Eagle 10 #30223 | ||
| sylverstone (Sylverstone_pd4501864)
Registered Member Username: Sylverstone_pd4501864 Post Number: 228 Registered: 7-2005 Posted From: 216.173.223.253 Rating: N/A |
considering you were warned about this kind of thing in this thread: http://www.busnut.com/bbs/messages/233/12706.html and didn't listen then, i'm not sure why anyone is even trying to advise you now, let alone giving you any sympathy. you got off lucky at 400 bucks. if i were you i'd pay it and find a legit place to park your rig. of course, you can do what you want. -dd | ||
| Ross Carlisle (Rrc62)
Registered Member Username: Rrc62 Post Number: 155 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 67.142.130.29 Rating: N/A |
I don't think an MCI can be towed from the rear. If they towed it from the front without pulling the axles or disconnecting the driveshaft, and you have an automatic trans, you could be looking at a new transmission. Ross | ||
| Kyle Brandt (Kyle4501)
Registered Member Username: Kyle4501 Post Number: 231 Registered: 9-2004 Posted From: 68.159.68.65 Rating: N/A |
Personally, I think you have used up your welcome & you may find that the number of complaints has risen to the level that the police are tired of hearing about your bus. Don't you think using the park for permanent parking is like setting up a camp site in the walmart parking lot. Seems like an abuse of the privilege to me. Once in a while is one thing, but, leaving it there constantly is going to remove the privilege for busnuts who are looking to park while they tour the town. Step up to the responsibility of owning a bus! Find a storage facility to park it. You could take out an add in the paper looking for a legal parking space (You might even find someone who is bus sympathetic to let you park for a small fee). As far as getting away with free-loader parking for a year, it could be argued that you are a habitual offender. As far as a lawyer goes, I have found that if they are worth having by your side in court, they are usually very expensive. But then again, you seem to like arguing, so just go fight it. What have you to loose? | ||
| David Ljung Madison (Daveola)
Registered Member Username: Daveola Post Number: 107 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 63.204.157.4 Rating: N/A |
*laugh* Here we go... 1) I think that parking it for a year in the same area before I have a problem is pretty good, and not exactly what I was "warned about." Mostly I was warned about living in the bus, which I am not doing. And while I am willing to accept $400 tow fees on occasion, that doesn't mean I have to let the police disregard the vehicle code. 2) I recognize that as I travel around I will run into problems where the local law acts in a non-legal manner and I will have no recourse, this is an expense of owning and travelling in a bus 3) In San Francisco I believe that I have stayed within the law, and I believe that I have recourse, so I plan to look into that. 4) Setting up camp site is very different from parking a vehicle. There are tens or hundreds of thousands of cars parked throughout San Francisco. I own one of them. I am not living in it. I also own a vehicle that lives in a garage. Many SF residents have cars that are parked somewhere in the city and get moved every week, so I don't think that somehow qualifies me as the free-loader of the year. I agree that getting a lawyer is expensive, I'm not likely to go that route. | ||
| David Ljung Madison (Daveola)
Registered Member Username: Daveola Post Number: 108 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 63.204.157.4 Rating: N/A |
Ross - any thoughts on how I can tell if they've towed without disconnecting the drive axle? I can ask them, but I doubt I'll be able to find the right person to talk to. What exactly happens to a bus if it's towed in neutral? | ||
| David Ljung Madison (Daveola)
Registered Member Username: Daveola Post Number: 109 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 63.204.157.4 Rating: N/A |
[[apologies - duplicate posting]] (Message edited by daveola on November 09, 2006) | ||
| Tim Strommen (Tim_strommen)
Registered Member Username: Tim_strommen Post Number: 245 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 67.169.151.53 Rating: N/A |
Dave - that's a raw deal. I've been following your posts for a while, and I was actually waiting for something like this to happen (I'm not a huge fan of S.F Police or large city ordinances). Unfortunately, I don't think you can even fight it. Check out these links I found on SF's webpage: http://www.sfgov.org/site/bdsupvrs_page.asp?id=27609 http://www.sfgov.org/site/bdsupvrs_page.asp?id=26451 Basically - homeless people and "hippies" in the area blew the welcome mat for RVs a long time ago. Mostly people who were living in them full time and shooting up and/or shooting other people are the cause for the desire to get rid of all. My advice is to get your bus out of impound and pay the bill ASAP - they charge by the day and more for large vehicles. Basically when the police saw your bus they probably thought "Hey there are some easy tax dollars". I'd write a formal complaint to your district representative and the Mayor (don't vote for them again and remind them that they will probably lose the tax dollars by having your vehicle registered in S.F., that's the only thing politicians understand - popularity and money) - but if the ordinance is in place as it appears it is, you were lucky they didn't get you sooner (and you should take that as it is). I've been paying for a spot since I got my bus about three years ago ($100 a month) - and as of last June - with the kindness of the rental place I've been able to get the adjacent spot to work on my conversion (for another $100, and they let me do anything that doesn't involve oil). My city still has a dumb ordinance that allows only 72 hours for loading or unloading before a trip - but then it has to be parked in a rental spot. Cheers! -Tim P.S. About the tow - the tow company is insured. Call your insurance company to have your agent come out (and a mechanic) with you when you pick up the bus. If they F'd up your transmission (running in neutral behind a truck – with no cooling or pressurized lubrication will wreck an Allison), by not removing the axles or disconnecting the drive shaft – you’ll want your agent to be there to instruct them (the tow company) who to write the $10,000 check for a new or re-built transmission (plus labor). Of course, if they did screw up your tranny you can further “flavor” your complaint to the city with those details and remind the City of S.F. that damages done to your property by a company contracted by the city can potentially expose the city to liability as well, after all – if the “hazard” your bus posed would not have possibly caused as much monetary or physical damage as they did by towing your bus, they would do well to at least attempt to contact you (phone logs are great for this) before towing. -T (Message edited by tim strommen on November 09, 2006) | ||
| David Ljung Madison (Daveola)
Registered Member Username: Daveola Post Number: 110 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 63.204.157.4 Rating: N/A |
Tim, thanks for the link. I had actually seen that before, and after spending an afternoon on the phone a few months ago with the DPT, near as I can tell the ordinance did NOT pass. I do not believe that it is currently law here (IANAL). It's certainly not being enforced. Worse case scenario, I could just re-title my bus as a bus and get a non-commercial CDL. It was easy enough to register it as a Motorhome. If it was actually law, it wouldn't matter much in this case, since the bus was written up under VC 22502A (Hazard), so that's what I would be fighting. Here is, in fact, the exact code that I was written up for, according to the ticket: 22502. (a) Except as otherwise provided in this chapter every vehicle stopped or parked upon a roadway where there are adjacent curbs shall be stopped or parked with the right-hand wheels of such vehicle parallel with and within 18 inches of the right-hand curb, except that motorcycles shall be parked with at least one wheel or fender touching the right-hand curb. Where no curbs or barriers bound any roadway, right-hand parallel parking is required unless otherwise indicated. That makes this even easier than I thought. My wheels were 0 inches from the curb. Maybe I was parked illegally (I think I was...), but it wasn't because of that part of the vehicle code. I know enough about traffic court to know that they can't change the infraction in court if they fail to prove their case. So that seems fairly helpful - depends on what mood the judge is in. We'll see. Thanks for the pointer on getting the bus out of impound, I did that right after they opened this morning, otherwise it's $100/day. The bus seems to run fine - is there anything I should check on the transmission for damage? I would love to get a rental spot, but there's nothing of reason in the city. Much easier (and pleasant) to find a quiet spot to drive to and work on it there, haven't really had any problems with the law over that. And it's not permanently staying in SF anyways, eventually it will hit the road. Speaking of which, I'm on my first cross-country tour tomorrow! (North-South, at least . Sure would be nice to have plumbing working. Ah well. In time. | ||
| FAST FRED (Fast_fred)
Registered Member Username: Fast_fred Post Number: 22 Registered: 10-2006 Posted From: 206.149.192.40 Rating: N/A |
"I agree that getting a lawyer is expensive, I'm not likely to go that route." No doubt SF has a bunch of skools that churn out Liars for Hire. Go to one and see if you can't become a class semester problem. The locals will crap all over themselves when 12 kids show up with a ton of case studies. If they FEAR you , they will accept the complaints , rather than mess WITH you. The NYC approach. FAST FRED | ||
| Kyle Brandt (Kyle4501)
Registered Member Username: Kyle4501 Post Number: 232 Registered: 9-2004 Posted From: 65.23.106.193 Rating: N/A |
RE: I know enough about traffic court to know that they can't change the infraction in court if they fail to prove their case. I don't know how things work on the Left coast, but every time I've been to traffic court (here on the East coast), they change the charged infraction all the time, sometimes they will reschedule to let you have time to prepare. Truth & justice are seldom seen in the court room. It is all about perception & interpretation. I'd sure like to watch you in front of the judge arguing your point, I'm sure I'd learn something & it would be entertaining. | ||
| Bob greenwood (Bob_greenwood)
Registered Member Username: Bob_greenwood Post Number: 325 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 4.226.108.181 Rating: N/A |
I kinda agree with Kyle,you are pissin' into the wind,wasteing your time in court,find a place to legaly park your bus,a'you keep the key' storage lot,somebodys side yard in an unrestricted neighborhood. | ||
| Ross Carlisle (Rrc62)
Registered Member Username: Rrc62 Post Number: 156 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 67.142.130.39 Rating: N/A |
I would ask the tow company if they removed the axles. If they can't tell you or give you that blank "duh, why would we do that" look, I'd push for a new transmission. If they don't know why the axles should be removed, they almost certainly didn't remove them. Removing axles or driveshaft is a standard and neccessary practice for towing big rigs with automatic transmissions.....for the same reason you can't flat tow a car with an automatic in neutral. Ross | ||
| ChuckMC9 (Chucks)
Registered Member Username: Chucks Post Number: 1055 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 64.105.16.59 Rating: N/A |
East Bay. Hayward, Concord, Walnut Creek, even Tracy, or better, perhaps even the old Naval Air station on Alameda. Huge hassle to drive to and fro to work on it, but wadda you gonna do? When I lived there six years ago, there was a place south of China Basin where 5-6 skoolies & beaters were, it appeared, boondocked indefinitely. It was just below Potrero, say 7th & 16th area, by a storage place I used. http://maps.google.com/maps?f=l&hl=en&q=storage&near=7th+st.,+san+francisco&ie=UTF8&z=18&ll=37.768934,-122.399336&spn=0.004096,0.003353&t=h&om=1&iwloc=C Probably more uppity now though since the yuppies have taken over. (Message edited by chucks on November 09, 2006) | ||
| Len Silva (Lsilva)
Registered Member Username: Lsilva Post Number: 56 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 75.89.18.16 Rating: N/A |
"....I would ask the tow company if they removed the axles. If they can't tell you or give you that blank "duh, why would we do that" look, I'd push for a new transmission. If they don't know why the axles should be removed, they almost certainly didn't remove them." I think it would be pretty difficult to remove the axles without getting a little gear lube all over the wheels (with it's distinctive smell) and I doubt the towing company would clean it up. That doesn't mean your trans was automatically damamged by a short tow. Len | ||
| Tim Strommen (Tim_strommen)
Registered Member Username: Tim_strommen Post Number: 246 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 64.186.173.26 Rating: N/A |
Hi Dave, If you have your bus registered as a motorhome (“housecar” to the CA-DMV), then the commercial route restrictions wouldn’t apply (i.e. not a commercial vehicle). SFGOV.org has maps about where it’s legal to park tour busses (which your bus is not - but just to be safe...) between 10pm and 6am, it would be a good idea to go over them – and go to the city’s Planning Office to look at some zoning maps to see exactly how the street you were parked on is zoned. Make sure it’s not “residential”, or facing a residence (even a block or two away) – those’ll be the biggest issues with a judge. I took some time last night looking through documents published by the S.F. Office of Citizen Complaint. They might be able to give you some guidance about how to prepare your case – it seemed that they were looking for witnesses or documentation that verifies your story over what the Police are saying (there were thousands of complaints against SFPD last year, so be ready for deaf ears in a court-room). Having one or both of those would be in your best interests. I read that you slept through the “20 minute warning” they allege they gave you – do you have anyone around who would be able to validate our statement (i.e. neighbor, etc. – not your family)? Based on another mountain of similar complaints – I recommend that you are able to definitively prove that you do not dwell or otherwise use your bus as an extension of your home (for temporary “hanging out”)– and that you indeed have a valid residence which is a non-moving structure (apartment/house). If you could further document a few trips you’ve taken outside of S.F. (especially recently) it would help prove that its primary purpose is conveyance as an RV. And of course – have your proof of insurance and registration. One last suggestion is to ask the court for guidance of where you might park your vehicle where it is likely not to be a target in the future (have some ideas ready so they don't have to waste their case-time). Obviously the SFPD is continuously issuing citations/warnings – so there must be a criteria other than “we just don’t want it here” (NIMBY) for them to spend the effort. Most Judges will be a bit less harsh if you are serious about not causing problems or paperwork for them. Cheers! -Tim Yet another P.S. – if you are continuously getting harassed by the SFPD – it would be a good idea to take a picture of how and exactly where your bus is parked (right after parking it) with the current day’s newspaper next to the tires (but still easily recognizable) – then email it to yourself (for a time stamp). There are several cases in which police have used email as a tool for placing people in a certain time and/or location. It would be easy to get a emailed digital photo admitted into evidence in a harassment case for specifically that purpose. It seems that’s what the SFPD wants you to do . -Tim (Message edited by Tim Strommen on November 09, 2006) | ||
| john w. roan (Chessie4905)
Registered Member Username: Chessie4905 Post Number: 342 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 71.58.126.56 Rating: N/A |
Personally, If you wish to own a vehicle of that size and nature, you should have a suitable place to keep it, even while you are converting it.I have a coach,s and understand your plight, however, I wouldn't want it parked around my area on the streets like that, legal or not.You may have the " legal right" to park it like that, however, how much do you want to spend to defend that right? Try to realistically look at the rest of the public's point of view. This is how new ordinances get implemented, especially now as a popular public view is that motorhomes are fuel wasters that are unecessary. Not my opinion, however.BTW, I'm not trying to flame you; just providing my point of view. | ||
| David Ljung Madison (Daveola)
Registered Member Username: Daveola Post Number: 111 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 63.204.157.4 Rating: N/A |
Here's the situation: I called the tow company. They remembered the bus (not surprisingly). I talked to the actual person who towed it. Fortunately he remembered that it was parked against the curb. Unfortunately they towed it from the front without detaching the drive shaft. Rats. Again, any advice on how I can figure out if there is damage? So - today I went to the tow hearing board and submitted a one page explanation of the situation, pointing out amongst other things that I was not in violation of the cited code, and that even the tow company agreed with this. I'll hear back in a few weeks, and I'll be sure to let the board know the results! (Sure was pretty easy to do as far as "pissing in the wind" is concerned ). And yes, to everyone concerned, I am aware that it is a hassle to park a bus on the streets, legally or not. And I have expected this all along, and I plan on fighting for my rights when it is worth my time. This is certainly cheaper than paying for a rental space - I'm not going to find one in SF for $400/yr, my current "tow costs" if I lose. Perhaps I wasn't clear enough, but the point behind posting this topic originally was not to *complain* about some massive unjustice done upon me, but to look for advice from people on how to handle the authorities regarding this. I've heard the "get a rental spot advice" and may someday take that route, but probably not today. | ||
| David Ljung Madison (Daveola)
Registered Member Username: Daveola Post Number: 112 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 63.204.157.4 Rating: N/A |
In response to Tim's excellent post: > ..published by the S.F. Office of Citizen Complaint... Are those online? I assume I can't get access to any specific complaints against my bus, yes? > ..there were thousands of complaints against SFPD last year, Hopefully not all about my bus! ;) > I read that you slept through the ~S20 minute warning~T they allege > they gave you ~V do you have anyone around who would be able to validate I know about the 20 minute warning because it is in my voicemail right now. Might make a copy of it. It was at 8am, not unreasonable to think that I was sleeping, but more to the point, if the tow was illegal, does it matter if I was sleeping through the warning? > are able to definitively prove that you do not dwell or otherwise use > your bus as an extension of your home (for temporary ~Shanging out~T)~V That's easy - I have an apartment here in SF. > structure (apartment/house). If you could further document a few trips > you~Rve taken outside of S.F. (especially recently) it would help prove Good point. I can do that, although the interior is an empty shell, so I don't think the police are thinking/claiming I live in it. > One last suggestion is to ask the court for guidance of where you > might park your vehicle where it is likely not to be a target in the Another good point. I'll investigate if I lose my hearing (see prior posting). On my hearing papers I did ask them to let me know what portion of the vehicle code I was violating if I lost, presumably if they can point me to such code then I can avoid it, and if they can't then they don't have much of a leg to stand on. It's their job to enforce the laws, not create or interpret. That's why we have three branches to our legal system > SFPD ~V it would be a good idea to take a picture of how and exactly > where your bus is parked (right after parking it) with the current Seems like a lot of work to setup every three days. Might be worth it in the future, but I'm not expecting a huge battle. We will see. It's too bad GPS doesn't have accuracy within an inch, because then a GPS in the bus could verify exact location. | ||
| David Ljung Madison (Daveola)
Registered Member Username: Daveola Post Number: 113 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 63.204.157.4 Rating: N/A |
John: > You may have the " legal right" to park it like that, > however, how much do you want to spend to defend that right? One tow and trip to the tow hearing board per year isn't that big of a deal. As far as the ethics of parking it there even if it is legal, I intentionally park it at the park and move it often so that it isn't directly in front of anyone's house and so that it doesn't stay in the same place. Take a look at google satellite photos of SF and you'll see that the streets are loaded with cars (as well as buses, RVs, trucks, etc..) - every curb has a vehicle next to it. I don't think one bus, clean and maintained, is really an eyesore or problem for the public. But that's just my take, other's may feel differently. There's a really ugly house right across the street from my house, but you don't see me calling the authorities and asking them to take illegal action. | ||
| Tim Strommen (Tim_strommen)
Registered Member Username: Tim_strommen Post Number: 247 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 64.186.173.26 Rating: N/A |
Based on the tow company stating that the bus was not parked greater than 18" from the curb - I'd get that in signed/letter-head writing and send it in along with a formal complaint to the SFPD and CC the O.C.C., City Council, and the Mayor. That alone should be enough for them to put it to rest for you. SFPD O.C.C. Take a look on the right column they have reports and summary's. 2005 was a busy year for them . As for the work included in taking pictures and seting up a simple "still life shot" (which doesn't need to be pretty) it's probably cheaper in time and money than fighting inaccurate police enforcement. They'll only need to see how much your "s--t's togther" once to reallize that they need to really see something wrong with your bus to screw with it. As a possible peace offering - I'd recommend that you proactively speak with the traffic supervisor in your SFPD precinct to work out an arrangement to avoid what happened here. I used to be a Loss Prevention Officer for Fry's Electronics in Sunnyvale - the cops down there remember people (both good and bad) on a first name basis. Try to maintain the "good" side with them. Also - you will probably want to find someone in the department who can help you out. One of the Sunnyvale PD officers was really exited about my bus when I got it (I still talk to him once a month about it) - remember it's not hard to "catch the bug"! "On my hearing papers I did ask them to let me know what portion of the vehicle code I was violating if I lost" While they are obligated to tell you what they are charging you with - they are not obligated to let you off because "I didn't know". As a general rule, try not to be the victim of acurate enforcement (again I agree with your assesment of invalid enforcement) - but still try to abide by the law (even so far as to adhere to the letter - if not the sprit ) Happy Bussin'! Cheers! -Tim (Message edited by Tim Strommen on November 09, 2006) | ||
| Tim Strommen (Tim_strommen)
Registered Member Username: Tim_strommen Post Number: 248 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 64.186.173.26 Rating: N/A |
"I assume I can't get access to any specific complaints against my bus, yes?" While the department will likely withhold specific information about any person who has formally complained about the bus - the complaint and the action taken against you is a matter of public record (you just have to prove you paid your taxes this year ). They are required to make the complaint statistics (giving exact case numbers) and the enforcement action available to you upon written request. -Tim To CMA - I should correct my statement about the number of compaints for 2005 made above (i.e. regarding the posted on Thursday, November 09, 2006 - 6:22 pm). It's really about 1K for 2005 (don't want to get hit with libel or slander ). However - I one compares the number of complaints against the population of S.F. for 2005, you'll see that is was slightly greater than .1% or one complaint against the SFPD for every 1,000 people in the city of S.F. Please draw your own conclusions about the quality of the S.F.P.D. - I am not suggesting that they do a poor job, and in fact the statistics show that the complaints are down from 2003 (over 1,000). -Tim (Message edited by Tim Strommen on November 09, 2006) (Message edited by Tim Strommen on November 09, 2006) | ||
| John Ferguson (Jarlaxle)
Registered Member Username: Jarlaxle Post Number: 39 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 4.174.106.150 Rating: N/A |
"P.S. About the tow - the tow company is insured. Call your insurance company to have your agent come out (and a mechanic) with you when you pick up the bus. If they F'd up your transmission (running in neutral behind a truck – with no cooling or pressurized lubrication will wreck an Allison), by not removing the axles or disconnecting the drive shaft – you’ll want your agent to be there to instruct them (the tow company) who to write the $10,000 check for a new or re-built transmission (plus labor)." They'll very likely laugh in his face. Police tows in most areas are at the vehicle owner's risk, and the tow company is absolutely NOT responsible for any damage. | ||
| David Ljung Madison (Daveola)
Registered Member Username: Daveola Post Number: 114 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 63.204.157.4 Rating: N/A |
> While they are obligated to tell you what they are charging you > with - they are not obligated to let you off because "I didn't know" Clearly. Ignorance of the law is no excuse and all that. But if they tell me what portion of the code I am violating, I can then figure out where to park in the future so I don't break the law again. And if I'm not violating the vehicle code, then it's worth fighting. That's all. Also, people keep talking about transmission damage, but my bus seems to drive fine after the tow - I'm going to take a look at the transmission fluid, but is there any way to make sure that my transmission is okay? I'm about to take off on a long trip, I would like to make it back home eventually. | ||
| Tim Strommen (Tim_strommen)
Registered Member Username: Tim_strommen Post Number: 249 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 64.186.173.26 Rating: N/A |
JF, True - if the tow was legal, the Tow company and PD can easily doge liability for any damage. But, if the tow was due to incorrect enforcement the PD can be hit for any damage that happens to the vehicle while in their custody. The tow company is liable for any damages to the vehicle due to improper proceedures while towing. As Dave was able to pick up his rig and drive it home - it's likely that no significant damage was done to the transmission in the process of the tow (especially if they never hit freeway speeds for any length of time on the way to the tow yard). I've personally gotten money for damages out of a tow company that damaged my pickup while towing it improperly (i.e. it can be done). Dave - I wouln't worry about it too much, just keep an ear out for any extra klunking or grinding noises. Have fun on your trip! -Tim (Message edited by Tim Strommen on November 09, 2006) | ||
| Tim Strommen (Tim_strommen)
Registered Member Username: Tim_strommen Post Number: 250 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 64.186.173.26 Rating: N/A |
"...Removing axles or driveshaft is a standard and neccessary practice for towing big rigs with automatic transmissions.....for the same reason you can't flat tow a car with an automatic in neutral..." To elaborate on this for the sake of informative clarity: automatic transmissions have a large planetary geared internal rotating mass. The gears are lubricated by oil that is pressurized and fed into the rotating parts by small holes and channels in the shafts and other parts. The lubrication pressure is created by having the engine running. While automatics can free run in neutral with the engine on - they will not be getting lubricated due to the lack of positive pressure created by the lack of engine rotation with the engine off. This means that all of the moving contact parts in the transmission are rotating with only the film of lube they had when at station. Eventually this lube will slide or wear off the parts and they will begin to contact and wear against each-other. This is what burns up automatics under tow. -Tim (Message edited by Tim Strommen on November 09, 2006) | ||
| Dale Waller (Happycampersrus)
Registered Member Username: Happycampersrus Post Number: 279 Registered: 7-2005 Posted From: 66.82.9.85 Rating: N/A |
"They'll very likely laugh in his face. Police tows in most areas are at the vehicle owner's risk, and the tow company is absolutely NOT responsible for any damage." John is 100% correct. If law enforcement had it towed, it won't matter what they broke. I have seen it happen to someone that had his full time 4wd (Jeep) torn up because law enforcement had it towed. Bottom line the tow company wasn't liable for towing a LEGALLY parked vehicle. He had permission to park there, but Barney Fife had it towed anyway. | ||
| Tom Caffrey (Pvcces)
Registered Member Username: Pvcces Post Number: 1012 Registered: 5-2001 Posted From: 65.74.65.54 Rating: N/A |
FWIW, standard transmissions can be hurt the same way. I understand that the only oil pump in each case is engine driven. Tom Caffrey PD4106-2576 Suncatcher Ketchikan, Alaska | ||
| JR Lynch (Njt5047)
Registered Member Username: Njt5047 Post Number: 95 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 69.132.229.126 Rating: N/A |
David, is it possible that they started the bus to air it up? These wrecker guys know how buses operate. Heavy tow truck drivers are also aware of how to get the brakes off by attaching an air line, or cranking off the drive axle slacks. Cannot see anyone getting under the bus. If the trans is working OK, you're probably OK. It isn't recommended to tow a bus with the drivetrain intact, but as often as you move the bus, the trans stays oiled up to some degree. Probably was a slow tow too. You are going to have to move from SF if you wish to be a bus owner. IMHO, you won't get ahead of the SFPD. They'll interpret your attempts prove them wrong as an entertaining challenge. As has been stated, it's more likely they'll get ahead of you...repeatedly. Someone is complaining about your bus being parked on the street. You need someone with a big yard and no neighborhood association or zoning limits. Check with local truck repair shops...the smaller shops with a storage yard may be a better idea. Don't know how you'll secure the bus from vandals and theft? Good Luck, JR | ||
| David Ljung Madison (Daveola)
Registered Member Username: Daveola Post Number: 115 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 63.204.157.4 Rating: N/A |
"David, is it possible that they started the bus to air it up?" Good question. I hadn't asked that. They must have aired it up in order to take off the parking brake. Even so, do you think they'd leave it running during the tow? Or would just the initial startup get enough fluid in the transmission to keep it from being damaged? | ||
| Kyle Brandt (Kyle4501)
Registered Member Username: Kyle4501 Post Number: 233 Registered: 9-2004 Posted From: 68.159.68.65 Rating: N/A |
Hey JR, It really depends on what he wants. Does he want to be a good citizen & set a good & fair example for others to see? Or does he want to argue & try to prove he is right even when conventional wisdom may suggest otherwise? My observation after reading this is that he is more interested in argueing with the police about his right to park his bus for free than finding a real place to park. I find it curious that he has so much time to jocky the bus around & deal with that hassle than to invest time in finding easier parking, but hey, that's just how I see it. I've never thought it wise to argue with the dude with a badge & a gun. No matter what the judge says, If the badge wants you to move it . . . . . . Accepting the tow bill as anual parking fee is absurd. If the tow fine sticks, guess what, they aren't going to wait another year. You will be lucky if you get 72 hours. Not intended as a flame Dave, just an observation from a different point of reference to maybe shed more light on this course of action. BTW If you have driven the bus since it was towed, you aren't likely to have a good case to get the transmission replaced. If it is acting normal, then it's probably just fine. (Message edited by kyle4501 on November 09, 2006) | ||
| David Evans (Dmd)
Registered Member Username: Dmd Post Number: 109 Registered: 10-2004 Posted From: 71.125.9.251 Rating: N/A |
Look for a construction/equipment company with a decent size yard and you can use your bus as a security office of sorts. Got to be as safe as parking on the streets. For a real good time try to park a bus conversion in Vero Beach Fla or the keys! | ||
| David Ljung Madison (Daveola)
Registered Member Username: Daveola Post Number: 116 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 63.204.157.4 Rating: N/A |
I understand that you feel that I'm not being a good citizen. I disagree. I don't think there's anything wrong with my "free parking" in SF, the same as all the other vehicles that are "freeloading" off the city, of which there are just about as many as are in garages. So - if you wish to condone my ethics of parking a bus legally on the street, feel free to send me a PM. Otherwise this is getting a bit off topic (shocking, isn't it?). Some happy news - I was just at my bus which is parked near my house temporarily while I load it for my trip. The police came by and asked me about the bus. They told me they had heard complaints that it had been parked there for a few days (which is laughable since they towed it from elsewhere two days ago) and that they had heard complaints that someone was sleeping in it (which is completely false). So, now I have a clearer understanding of what was going on. Does anyone think that the neighbors who are lying in an attempt to get me in trouble are the ones who you need to send a PM to? But anyways.. The point is after telling them that it hadn't been parked there for more than 72 hours, and that nobody was sleeping in it, one of the officers said "it's registered, it's legally parked, no problem" and then they left. "I've never thought it wise to argue with the dude with a badge & a gun." What a terrifying society we would live in if everyone felt that way. Law enforcement is *not* infallible. Good law enforcement is capable of recognizing that. I feel fairly confident that the SF Police Dep't can fall into that category, you are welcome to see otherwise. I'll let you know if the cops start slashing my tires. | ||
| Kyle Brandt (Kyle4501)
Registered Member Username: Kyle4501 Post Number: 234 Registered: 9-2004 Posted From: 65.23.106.193 Rating: N/A |
OK, I'll try to better explain. (OH - NO, a long post!) (Respect - an act of giving particular attention -OR- high or special regard) (Perception - a mental image or physical sensation interpreted in the light of experience) First off, calm down David, I was only trying to help you see this from someone else's point of view. I thought that's what you wanted when you started this thread & asked for advice. Be careful what you ask for. RE: ". . . the point behind posting this topic originally was . . . to look for advice from people on how to handle the authorities regarding this." That is what we're trying to do. It is a complicated issue & you need to see all sides of it. Keep an open mind to understand where others are coming from. Then your chances of getting what you want improve. You asked for advice, so here is some more. When you get advice you don't like or agree with, don't attack with arguments or irrational associations. There are lots of very wise people reading this board & attacking the received advice is a great way to keep them silent. (As for me, I'm not so wise & I'm not afraid of sounding like a stupid idiot. I got over myself a long time ago.) Just for the record, I really couldn't care less where YOU park YOUR bus. I don't know if you realize it yet, but there really isn't any FREE parking, some involve paid rent, some have a long drive, & some involve the hassles of constant attention & interference from annoying jerks that just don't get it. For MY WAY, I choose to park my bus (RV, Coach, Motor home, whatever) where it causes ME the least amount of trouble, money, & time. That does involve consideration of the neighborhood & respect for their thoughts, not just codes & ordinances. I also try to be an ambassador of good will for bus conversions. The hippie and Partridge Family stereotypes are still strong and create lots of fear. RE: "free-loader parking for a year " - I was referring to the vocal complainer's opinion or perception, not mine. If you paid your taxes & etc, I agree you should be allowed certain parking privileges, but I ain't the one complaining to the police. RE: "What a terrifying society we would live in if everyone felt that way." (in response to "I've never thought it wise to argue with the dude with a badge & a gun.") - The key word is ARGUING. By not arguing, you are showing the officer respect (see above). There's nothing wrong with discussing. Just save the arguing for the judge. Try having a little respect for the police & their job. (You should consider where they are coming from, & who they usually have to deal with. This is why the street is a poor place to argue. In court, the situation is not threatening for the officer & your chances of a successful argument improve.) Think about it, they have to be ready for the worst humankind is capable of & officers have been killed for a lot less than a simple parking ticket. An open discussion is fine. However, if you sense he is having a bad day, ask if you could meet later so you can get a better understanding. RE: "I'd sure like to watch you in front of the judge arguing your point, I'm sure I'd learn something & it would be entertaining." - Since you did your homework, watching them flip thru the ordinances trying to find one to stick is what would be funny. RE: "Law enforcement is *not* infallible. " That is why there are courts, judges & juries. RE: - "a good citizen & setting a good & fair example for others to see? Or does he want to argue & try to prove he is right even when conventional wisdom may suggest otherwise?" - It is about perceptions from the neighborhood. Fear & ignorance are powerful motivators. Try being a little more understanding of the neighbors. That's NOT saying you have to get their permission. That is saying there will be reactions to your actions, so plan ahead. If someone really wants your bus gone & the police can't get you to move it, they may try other methods to 'encourage' you to park it elsewhere (Vandalism comes to mind). Laws are passed because of graft, corruption, greed, profit, & selfishness (sometimes for public good ). If the vocal segment of the population fear that you are setting a bad example, you may find that they will add new laws to prevent what you are trying to do. Tread carefully; you don't want more laws, do you? Your last visit with the police was enlightening. You now know the police are simply doing their job by responding to complaints concerning you & your bus. It appears to be a vocal few that are lying to the police about your bus. Spend a little time with the police so they know who you are, you may be surprised how much distain the police have for the lying complainers. From my experience, the police are great people who make my life easier. A little good will with them can result in HUGE dividends as they have kept me informed about things concerning my interests & helped me avoid potential conflicts (saved us both time & money). Sometimes there is more required than just being right. Either you 'get it' or you don't & probably never will. Yeah, I know, I need a life. (Message edited by kyle4501 on November 10, 2006) | ||
| Tim Strommen (Tim_strommen)
Registered Member Username: Tim_strommen Post Number: 251 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 64.186.173.26 Rating: N/A |
So, to recap my original advice (from above posts): "...As a possible peace offering - I'd recommend that you proactively speak with the traffic supervisor in your SFPD precinct to work out an arrangement to avoid what happened here..." "...the cops down there remember people (both good and bad) on a first name basis. Try to maintain the "good" side with them. Also - you will probably want to find someone in the department who can help you out. One of the Sunnyvale PD officers was really exited about my bus when I got it (I still talk to him once a month about it) - remember it's not hard to "catch the bug"!..." "...If you are continuously getting harassed by the SFPD - it would be a good idea to take a picture of how and exactly where your bus is parked (right after parking it) with the current day's newspaper next to the tires (but still easily recognizable) - then email it to yourself (for a time stamp). There are several cases in which police have used email as a tool for placing people in a certain time and/or location. It would be easy to get a emailed digital photo admitted into evidence in a harassment case for specifically that purpose..." All of what I've said has been repeated by at least one person here (save the last chunk). As for the complaint about the bus being parked there for days, doing the pictures and making them readily available to the SFPD on request (this means you'd have to talk with the traffic cops there first to set this up) will mean that they will be able to discover (with physical evidence) that a citizen complaint about your bus is false (then they can charge the person who files it with making a false police report). If you are able to get this done more than once to show a pattern of harassment from this neighbor, you may be able to file a restraining order against them. I've found that with most of the bus complaints I've gotten (and similarly with most of those I've read from others) it's only one person who is out to get rid of you - not a general conspiracy by a group. I'll bet that the police have gotten enough complaints that they want them to stop. Make it easy for them to do their job and they'll thank you for it. If it is as they say a citizen who is complaining: "...I was just at my bus which is parked near my house temporarily while I load it for my trip. The police came by and asked me about the bus. They told me they had heard complaints that it had been parked there for a few days (which is laughable since they towed it from elsewhere two days ago) and that they had heard complaints that someone was sleeping in it (which is completely false). So, now I have a clearer understanding of what was going on. Does anyone think that the neighbors who are lying in an attempt to get me in trouble are the ones who you need to send a PM to? But anyways..." Then they have already shown that they are willing enough to work with you as a law-abiding citizen. This is good news (i.e. it's not some cop that is following a quiet departmental plan) because now you have an "in" with them: "Someone complained - they were incorrect, how can I help the department by providing you with accurate information on command, so that you don't even have to send out an officer? Further, how can we work together to ensure that you don't receive complaints from this individual in the future?" That should get the PD salivating . Cheers! -Tim | ||
| David Dulmage (Daved)
Registered Member Username: Daved Post Number: 151 Registered: 12-2003 Posted From: 142.46.199.30 Rating: N/A |
The bottom line is we all need to get along with our neighbours. There are some whom we will never please; We had one in Syracuse, NY who wrote threatening letters about things my kids supposedly did, even though at the time when they were alleged to have occured we were in the sunny south on vacation. Her response to my attempt at peace making was that she threatened to beat up my wife's car with a baseball bat. As long as you show as much consideration as you can for your neighbours and meet the spirit, as well as the intent of any by-laws, at least you can rest, knowing you've done your best. In the end you may still have to find another place for the bus. Some things are just not worth the stress they cause. (I'm so glad I live out of town where so far these things aren't an issue). Just my $0.02 Dave (Message edited by DaveD on November 10, 2006) (Message edited by DaveD on November 10, 2006) | ||
| JR Lynch (Njt5047)
Registered Member Username: Njt5047 Post Number: 97 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 69.132.229.126 Rating: N/A |
Kyle, us'ns in the country just don't get it. David has BIG cojones... proven by parking a bus in SF for over a year! That's a major challenge. Moving it around is really not in the "spirit" of what the 72 hour law was designed to accomplish. Sorta stretching the intention. The goal of the city is to prevent such items parked around the city. David has found a way to "sorta" avoid the rule. Technically speaking, he's in the right...but his neighbors are complaining...they probably think the bus is full of hippies or axe-murderers. Just a "big city" issue. "Getting along with your neighbors" in SF is patently impossible. I cannot believe the bus has not been towed before now. Free parking on the street just isn't going to last but for so long. The bus is gonna have to be moved to a legit lot of some sort. City hall has drawn a bead on the thing and that ain't gonna change...for whatever reasons. David, as others have suggested, think outside the box and see if there's not a better place to park the coach. Big cities have all sorts of lots and business parking, any of which could solve all your towable problems...unfortunately, for more $$$ than an occasional tow may cost. May I suggest that you remove yourself from SF? That would be a beginning. North Carolina has a lot of space. There will be some culture shock. My dos centavos..again, JR, fortunate to live in the COUNTRY! | ||
| David Evans (Dmd)
Registered Member Username: Dmd Post Number: 110 Registered: 10-2004 Posted From: 71.125.9.251 Rating: N/A |
Good posts everyone, and Kyle here in NY most laws are passed because people do something stupid. So our attention seeking politicians blare out how we need a new law to protect other stupid people from this DANGER! that any half way intelligent person (with common or as it xhould now be named, uncommon sense)would know without needing a new law. Back in the day (1983-86) our band had a schoolie with life size posters of scantily clad women from all the beer companies taped to the inside windows. AND we left the old lettering from the church I bought it from on the side. Masaryktown Baptist Church. This was during the Jim Baker period and we thought we were hillarious. Till the nite outside Lake City when we got rousted by every type of police force possible. It was not fun watching all our instruments get taken out of the cases and searched while we sat there freezing at 4 am. I took the one sherrif's advice and painted over the lettering and toned down the overall appearance of our wheels that week. Those were the daze! | ||
| FAST FRED (Fast_fred)
Registered Member Username: Fast_fred Post Number: 23 Registered: 10-2006 Posted From: 206.149.192.92 Rating: N/A |
"So our attention seeking politicians blare out how we need a new law to protect other stupid people from this DANGER!" Come on , I was happy in the bath tub with my Toaster till I read the warning label. FAST FRED | ||
| David Evans (Dmd)
Registered Member Username: Dmd Post Number: 112 Registered: 10-2004 Posted From: 71.125.9.251 Rating: N/A |
Amen Fred. I'm going shopping this morning for the self parking SUV option! My grampa was right when he said the automatic allowed morons to drive cars! | ||
| RJ Long (Rjlong)
Registered Member Username: Rjlong Post Number: 1103 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 67.181.163.170 Rating: N/A |
David - You might find this helpful: http://www.rebel101.com/fight_parking_ticket.htm | ||
| jim king (Eglluvr)
Registered Member Username: Eglluvr Post Number: 2 Registered: 10-2006 Posted From: 70.161.139.234 Rating: N/A |
RJ- Guaranteed results...LOL But No Guarantee as to what those results are! | ||
| Craig (Ceieio)
Registered Member Username: Ceieio Post Number: 277 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 207.101.213.58 Rating: N/A |
David - I am late to the party, but here is my thoughts relating to the ticket. I think you are taking the only real approach to fighting the ticket. In the college-required law class, they made a big point early on that we have a "legal" system in the US, not a "justice" system. As such the question before teh court is "is it legal". You have to look at the specific "crime" you are being charged with (and adjacent crimes) and present evidence to show that you did not in fact commit the offense. The statue itself may not be enough as there may be case law (for parking... who knows) and overlapping regulation. At any rate, if you are not careful you can unwittingly "convict" yourself of a separate "crime" while defending yourself from the first. (A guy I went to high school with did just exactly that our senior year; in trying to beat a speeding ticket, he presented evidence that he was really guilty of careless driving and the court obliged him). Not to suggest you are going to be a bone-head like Roger was, but it does illustrate the point of care. It sounds like to me you have taken as much care as possible in a urban area to be non-offensive and meeting the letter of the law. Time will tell if the letter of the law is enough. Good luck. Craig MC7 Oregon PS: Your minds should be flashing red alert right now as I admit to a single mandated law class and you are right... I am not a lawyer but do like to argue and I watch Perry Mason when I can. :-) | ||
| niles steckbauer (Niles500)
Registered Member Username: Niles500 Post Number: 675 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 24.129.157.205 Rating: N/A |
SNIP****** The statue itself may not be enough as there may be case law (for parking... who knows) and overlapping regulation. At any rate, if you are not careful you can unwittingly "convict" yourself of a separate "crime" while defending yourself from the first. (A guy I went to high school with did just exactly that our senior year; in trying to beat a speeding ticket, he presented evidence that he was really guilty of careless driving and the court obliged him). Not to suggest you are going to be a bone-head like Roger was, but it does illustrate the point of care SNIP******* Craig - That's called plea(ing) to a lesser charge - what state/city are you in that a judge in traffic court would adjudicate someone guilty of an offense he was not charged with? Niles - Not an attorney either, loves to argue, stayed at a Holiday Inn last night, just saved a bundle on my car insurance .... | ||
| Craig (Ceieio)
Registered Member Username: Ceieio Post Number: 278 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 206.212.230.165 Rating: N/A |
"- what state/city are you in that a judge in traffic court would adjudicate someone guilty of an offense he was not charged with? " 'twas a small town in rural Oregon. He really was a twit as he explained to the judge that he could not possibly have been speeding as the officer charged because he was doing a bat-turn (e-brake slide) into the store parking lot at the time. I was there leaving the parking lot, and they got it wrong; he was guilty of both speeding and careless driving. | ||
| Tim Strommen (Tim_strommen)
Registered Member Username: Tim_strommen Post Number: 253 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 24.5.170.140 Rating: N/A |
Down here in CA - if you do a power-slide or fish-tail deliberately, it's considered "Reckless Driving" - an arrestable offense (i.e. - felony). I’d take my chances with the speeding ticket and hope that my other antics don’t come up in conversation... Cheers! -Tim | ||
| niles steckbauer (Niles500)
Registered Member Username: Niles500 Post Number: 676 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 72.91.34.170 Rating: N/A |
Craig - thanks for giving .... the rest of the story .... | ||
| Cameron Jones (Crazy71)
Registered Member Username: Crazy71 Post Number: 1 Registered: 12-2006 Posted From: 75.179.158.67 Rating: N/A |
Daveola....I support you all the way. Sounds like you are just parking on a public street. If a vehicle is legally tagged you should be able to park it on one street today..another tomorrow..etc...I know there can be picky rules about oversized vehicles. Cities try to make it impossible to have anything but 2 normal cars that they want you to put in the garage every night. It sickens me!! I want to buy a tank...a real military tank and legally register it and drive it around. I had a 1947 Fire truck for a couple of years. I would love to see how many days it would take to get the letter from the city after I pull a tank into the driveway. There are way too many restrictions on the books already so I am all for manipulating any loop holes we can. Then we have all the people we "offend" by us infringing on their right to see what they want when they look out their window. Best of luck. | ||
| Stephen Fessenden (Sffess)
Registered Member Username: Sffess Post Number: 676 Registered: 1-2002 Posted From: 67.142.130.35 Rating: N/A |
Yeah, way too many restrictions. The house my daughter is buying has deed restrictions: No more than two vehicles that don't run and no goats or chickens. Thats probably because it is a nice house on the main drag. If you want even less restriction, try Jefferson Davis county Texas, near Alpine. | ||
| Tom D. (Road_hog)
Registered Member Username: Road_hog Post Number: 3 Registered: 12-2006 Posted From: 66.69.90.76 Rating: N/A |
Just start telling everybody that you use the bus to transport (smuggle?) illegal aliens. Not only will the City of San Francisco leave you alone and let you keep the bus in front of the park (which they'll probably name after you), the SFPD might let you spend more time "living" in there in order for you to tend to your medical marijuana growing operation they'll let you have inside. Oh, don't forget that you can write off all expenses pertaining to the bus on your taxes as a non-profit humanitarian enterprise. I'd even consider a nice mural for the side with a catchy slogan like "Dave Cares" or some other BS. The added visibility might even earn you the keys to that whacked-out city. Also, a few $400 donations to the honorable members of the city council/mayor's office will probably end the ones you're having to give to the police. Kidding about all this, of course, but I like the way you go after the things you envision for yourself. Good luck fighting the liberals in your city government. Remember they're only liberal when it's not costing them anything. Right now you're the enemy. You don't just have a gas-guzzling SUV like the normal gluttons, no you need a BUS to get around in. You need to do some serious work on spinning your image before the tree-huggers want your head on a platter too! | ||
| David Ljung Madison (Daveola)
Registered Member Username: Daveola Post Number: 120 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 63.204.157.4 Rating: N/A |
*laugh* That's great.. "..serious work on spinning your image before the tree-huggers want your head on a platter" Fortunately they're already happy with me since I converted my bus to WVO. |