| Author | Message | ||
| Joe Larosa (Joe_46)
Registered Member Username: Joe_46 Post Number: 1 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 69.114.50.141 Rating: N/A |
Can anyone give me an idea of what it would cost to install eletric outlets,cable and a maine junction box for a GM 4903 my band is coverting? This would be a simple system as we don't have the money for a generator just yet. We would just be able to use shore power for now. We have been quoted $2000 for just labor. This seems rather high to me. Am I off the mark or is this a fair price ? Any thought would be much appreciated. Thank You. | ||
| Bob greenwood (Bob_greenwood)
Registered Member Username: Bob_greenwood Post Number: 339 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 4.90.4.203 Rating: N/A |
there are plenty of people that can run wire & install a fuse box and outlets,ask people you know,if they know a person that understands house wireing,250 feet of 12/2 ,about 30.00,box & breakers,about 100,outlets,about 25.00,.plus labor | ||
| ChuckMC9 (Chucks)
Registered Member Username: Chucks Post Number: 1058 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 64.105.16.59 Rating: N/A |
Um, I think ol' Bob's clutch is slipping on this one. 12/2??? I don't think so. If you can't do it yourself, I don't that labour cost is at all unreasonable. To do it even remotely close to 'right' can take weeks. | ||
| Len Silva (Lsilva)
Registered Member Username: Lsilva Post Number: 57 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 71.30.241.156 Rating: N/A |
Joe, I see from your profile that you are in NYC. Probably not a bad price for that area. See if you can't find some friends to help you do it yourself. Just be very sure that they understand the concept of "isolated neutral". That is that the neutral (white) wire is not grounded any where in the bus. Knowledgeable electricians will understand. Those who have only done house wiring may not. Len Silva | ||
| George M. Todd (George_mc6)
Registered Member Username: George_mc6 Post Number: 34 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 207.231.80.150 Rating: N/A |
Joe, I have to take sides with Chuck to a point. Solid wire is never installed in a bus by its manufacturer, due to vibration/fatigue issues. I know I will hear from many people who will say "I did it years ago, and it works fine." The price of a 250' roll of 12/2 at Home Depot TODAY is $75.00, and it varies almost daily. Instead of 12/2 Romex, you need to buy three rolls of #12 stranded, one each of black, white, and green. Then, a couple of rolls of 1/2" Liquidtight conduit and fittings. Your main panel has to be a "sub-panel" in electrical terms, in other words, the grounds and neutrals MUST be wired seperately. Then, you need a piece of 6/4 type S/O cord, and a 50 amp 120/240 volt cap for your shore connection. The main breaker will be $15, branch breakers about $5, proper receptacles about $2, covers about $0.20 each. Not to mention outlet boxes, conduit clamps, screws, etc. $1000 in labor does sound a little high, until you put it in perspective. You can't drill steel anywhere near as fast as boring wood studs with a hole hawg, and eleven hours on a journeyman electrician at $90/hr. would be $990. The journeyman electrician will have to show up with a truck, tools, and experience, not to mention paying for fuel, truck insurance and license, etc. HTH, George | ||
| George M. Todd (George_mc6)
Registered Member Username: George_mc6 Post Number: 35 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 207.231.80.150 Rating: N/A |
Joe, One more little thing. I started to write this post, and then had a half hour phone call. So, my post shows up after Len's even though it was written before. I wouldn't have repeated seperate grounds and neutrals had I known of Len's post. Isolated grounds and neutrals ARE THAT IMPORTANT, Len's last line says it all! George | ||
| Bob greenwood (Bob_greenwood)
Registered Member Username: Bob_greenwood Post Number: 340 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 4.226.108.10 Rating: N/A |
maybe I misunderstood,I kinda think the BAND is on a budjet...everybody is talking big money here.I was talking about screwing the outlets to the lower walls& running romex externaly. | ||
| Kyle Brandt (Kyle4501)
Registered Member Username: Kyle4501 Post Number: 237 Registered: 9-2004 Posted From: 65.23.106.193 Rating: N/A |
I used stranded wire THHN (I think) when I wired Dads shop. It pulled thru the conduit easily. It was no different in price then, but who knows now. I also figgured I'd have less waste. Probably not any diference there. If I was doing a 'quick-n-dirty' electrical installation, I'd run 'rigid' plastic conduit & glue the fittings & surface mount everything. This way, the wire is protected better than romex. Spend a little extra on the outlets & switches & get the ones that the wire clamp is tightened by a screw (Not the wire under the screw head or that push-in crap). You may like the 'smurf' pipe (light blue flexible conduit) for those weird spots where rigid just won't fit well. Can't over stress the importance of proper neutrals & grounds & the need to keep them separate inside your coach. If the one doing the wiring doesn't KNOW why this is important, chase him away with a stick! As far as paying someone, tools & knowledge don't often come cheap! You are LUCKY if you get what you pay for! All that said, ask around, you may be able to find a good elecrtician who will like what you are doing & show you what to do & guide you to a quality self install. The work isn't usually that physically difficult, "its the knowing what to do". (Message edited by kyle4501 on November 13, 2006) | ||
| Paso One (Paso_1)
Registered Member Username: Paso_1 Post Number: 78 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 142.165.246.239 Rating: N/A |
I used SJOOW 10/3 found it very confining in the small sub panel. ( Sorry for the mistake note change ) Note to the electricians Why not explain for the poster why the neutrals and the grounds need to be kept seperate and the best way to ground the panel. (Message edited by paso_1 on November 14, 2006) | ||
| Kyle Brandt (Kyle4501)
Registered Member Username: Kyle4501 Post Number: 238 Registered: 9-2004 Posted From: 65.23.106.193 Rating: N/A |
One of the reasons for keeping them seperate is to protect your coach. The Hot coming in is fused, the neutral & ground isn't (If it was fused & that fuse blew out, then YOU would be able to complete the circut & that ain't a good thing). If there is a problem in the wiring prior to where your coach plugs in, you could have uncontrolled voltage & amps coming thru your ground/ neutral connection. & that could let the smoke out of the whole coach & contents. In a house, the neutral & ground are seperate until they connect in the meter can. | ||
| Len Silva (Lsilva)
Registered Member Username: Lsilva Post Number: 58 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 67.141.146.248 Rating: N/A |
You'll find a hundred explanations of why the neutral is isolated, almost all of them correct. The simplest explanation is that the bus is one BIG appliance which gets plugged in. The neutral is never grounded in an appliance. Len | ||
| JR Lynch (Njt5047)
Registered Member Username: Njt5047 Post Number: 98 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 69.132.229.126 Rating: N/A |
There's yet a simpler explanation...it's called electrocution. Someone could test for ground faults by stepping out of a "hot" bus onto wet ground. That's the most basic rationale for bonding the coach ony at the power pole. Now, wait'll you add a generator and inverter to that mix??? BTW, there's a good many upscale factory bus conversions and RVs using Romex for 110V cabling. THHN is almost as brittle as Romex...and, as far as I know (I regularly eat crow, feel free to abuse!), stranded "marine" wire isn't to code per RVIA...what to do? Now we have a conundrum! All of the above conductors will all work fine if properly restrained and protected from abrasion. Stranded marine cable is the most difficult to secure properly...with THHN next, and solid wire the easiest to get a proper connection. Most 110V AC devices (duplex, breakers, some switches) are not designed for stranded wire. Good Luck, JR | ||
| ChuckMC9 (Chucks)
Registered Member Username: Chucks Post Number: 1059 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 64.105.16.59 Rating: N/A |
I felt kinda bad earlier today sayin' Bob's clutch was slippin'. As long as it's done well, Romex is ok, but at least from my experience, the challenges aren't necessarily in the materials, but the planning how it all fits together. When all the factors of walls, conduits, wire chases, cabinets, the bulkheads in the bays, plumbing, and the need to route and secure everything safely all interact together, the challenges are greater than telling someone to "just put in a few outlets." If you're just trying to get one step up from extension cords on the floor, then it could be done pretty cheaply if you aren't trying to hide anything. But if you want it planned and done 'better than marginal', the time requirement goes up a *lot*. In my case material cost was nuthin compared to the figgerin' out I had to do. I'm still not surprised at all that a professional electrician quoted $2K. Heck that's only a week's work @ 50 per. It you have all the materials ready to go and you can tell him *exactly* what to do and how to do it, then maybe less than a week, but I'll be amazed. Hope we didn't scare you off, Joe! (Message edited by chucks on November 13, 2006) | ||
| Joe Larosa (Joe_46)
Registered Member Username: Joe_46 Post Number: 2 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 69.114.50.141 Rating: N/A |
Hey Guys, Thanks so much for all your replys, it is all very helpful. Since we are just musicians,and descent handy men, but not electricians, we are going to go with the profesional with this project. We don't want anyone to get electrocuted and we don't want to start a fire, basicly we want to be a safe as possible. I'm sure I will have more questions as we are just starting the conversion process. It's realy great to have a forum like this and be able to comunicate with other bus people.Thanks Again ! | ||
| Ross Carlisle (Rrc62)
Registered Member Username: Rrc62 Post Number: 157 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 66.82.9.82 Rating: N/A |
Cost depends entirely on what you want. Boat cable is the best wire to use. THNN also works but requires conduit. That adds time and by the time you buy the conduit the cost between THHN and boat cable is minimal. You can use a household breaker box which is the least expensive route and works just fine. If you want a fancy panel, you could spend $2000 just on that. Labor to install outlets depends on where they go and how easy it is to access the areas that wire needs to run but shouldn't be more than $500 or so. If you need help, give me a call at 603-477-2080 or bruce at 302-542-4464. The shop is in Delaware near Lewes. Ross | ||
| Brian Brown (Blue_velvet)
Registered Member Username: Blue_velvet Post Number: 392 Registered: 6-2005 Posted From: 76.186.181.86 Rating: N/A |
I have seen NM cable (solid wire, aka "Romex") in MANY motorhomes, and every one of my conversions (three and counting). I've never had a problem with it and would use it in one I converted. As JR mentioned, you'll be working against every plug, switch, outlet and box when using stranded wire, having to crimp-on a connection to three wires at every junction. Truthfully, what's more likely: a stress-related failure of solid cable OR a poorly crimped connection out of the hundreds you'll have to make?! My wrists are tired just thinking about it. But do 'em YOUR way... and let the flames fly. Brian "NM" Brown Longmont, CO 4108-216 w/ V730 Presently "stranded" (har har) in TX | ||
| Cliff (Floridacracker)
Registered Member Username: Floridacracker Post Number: 303 Registered: 7-2004 Posted From: 65.33.146.203 Rating: N/A |
I would use stranded cable not romex or thhn. SJOO or better. It may cost a little more, but is used in industry all the time. Very durable. Heavy Duty. Just tin your ends before putting under a screw or crimp and solder your lugs on. All of the above suggestions CAN be used, but a quality installation is required with EVERY type. Best of luck Cliff | ||
| Len Silva (Lsilva)
Registered Member Username: Lsilva Post Number: 59 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 67.141.146.248 Rating: N/A |
Cliff, I beg to differ. The latest "boat cable" may now be UL approved, I haven't seen it. However, SJ or any other flexible cord is specifically not approved where it is hidden in walls or fastened down in any way. I don't have the book in front of me but I think it can only be connected by a plug on one end except for very short exposed runs such as connecting a motor to a box or a pendant fixture. Len | ||
| Cliff (Floridacracker)
Registered Member Username: Floridacracker Post Number: 304 Registered: 7-2004 Posted From: 67.8.199.203 Rating: N/A |
Len or others, I would love to hear why a cable like SJOO, which is rated for the harshest enviroments, which is UL rated, where the outside jacket is Oil and Water resistant, where the inner jackets on each individual wire are oil and water resistant, where additional insulation is added to make it vibration, bend and break resistant, which is also sunlight resistant... I would like to hear or see where it is specifically not approved and WHY. Everything I have read in the NEC in the past is it is Ok if approved by the inspector. Yes, you need a waiver to do it better. It defies Common Sense in my opinion not to use it. Cliff | ||
| Brian Brown (Blue_velvet)
Registered Member Username: Blue_velvet Post Number: 393 Registered: 6-2005 Posted From: 76.186.181.86 Rating: N/A |
Cliff, IIRC SJOO and other exterior-rated cords are listed for use in open-air environments and "temporary" use only, not hard-wired and enclosed. It has something to do with how the jacket needs the exterior airspace to cool the conductors during high loads. Enclosing it or any other "extension cord" material in a conduit or stapling it down is indeed a no-no. Granted, SJOO is a very nice extension cord, and I just used some to make a temporary 30A pedestal at my folks' house here during our stay. HTH, Brian Brown | ||
| Len Silva (Lsilva)
Registered Member Username: Lsilva Post Number: 60 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 67.141.146.248 Rating: N/A |
Cliff, I'm not debating the common sense argument, only the legality. NEC Article 400-8 70-290 NATIONAL ELECTRICAL CODE 400-7. Uses Permitted. (a) Uses. Flexible cords and cables shall be used only for (1) pendants; (2) wiring of fixtures; (3) connection of portable lamps or appliances; (4) elevator cables; (5) wiring of cranes and hoists; (6) connection of stationary equipment to facilitate their frequent interchange; (7) prevention of the transmission of noise or vibration; (8) appliances where the fastening means and mechanical connections are specifically designed to permit ready removal for maintenance and repair, and the appliance is intended or identified for flexible cord connection; (9) data processing cables as permitted by Section 645-5; (10) connection of moving parts; or (11) temporary wiring as permitted in Sections 305-4(b) and 305-4(c). (b) Attachment Plugs. Where used as permitted in subsections (a)(3), (a)(6), and (a)(8) of this section, each flexible cord shall be equipped with an attachment plug and shall be energized from a receptacle outlet. Exception: As permitted in Section 364-8. 400-8. Uses Not Permitted. Unless specifically permitted in Section 400-7 flexible cords and cables shall not be used (1) as a substitute for the fixed wiring of a structure; (2) where run through holes in walls, ceilings, or floors; (3) where run through doorways, windows, or similar openings; (4) where attached to building surfaces; (5) where concealed behind building walls, ceilings, or floors; or (6) where installed in raceways, except as otherwise permitted in this Code. Exception: Flexible cord and cable shall be permitted to have one connection to the building surface for a suitable tension take-up device. Travel from the cord or cable termination to the tension take-up device shall be limited to six feet (1.83 m). 400*9. Splices. Flexible cord shall be used only in continuous lengths without splice or tap when initially installed in applications permitted by Section 400-7(a). The repair or hard service cord (see Column 1, Table 400-4) No. 14 and larger shall be permitted if conductors are spliced in accordance with Section 110-14(b) and the completed splice retains the insulation, outer sheath properties, and usage characteristics of the cord being spliced. 400*10. Pull at Joints and Terminals. Flexible cords shall be so connected to devices and to fittings that tension will not be transmitted to joints or terminals. (FPN): Some methods of preventing pull on a cord from being transmitted to joints or terminals are (1) knotting the cord, (2) winding with tape, and (3) fittings designed for the purpose. 400-11. In Show Windows and Show Cases. Flexible cords used in show windows and show cases shall be Type S, SO, SE, SEO, SOO, SJ, SJE, SJO, SJEO, SJOO, ST, STO, STOO, SJT, SJTO, SJTOO, or AFS. Exception No. 1: For the wiring of chain-supported lighting fixtures. Exception No. 2; As supply cords for portable lamps and other merchandise being displayed or exhibited. 400*12. Minimum Size. The individual conductors of a flexible cord or cable shall not be smaller than the sizes in Table 400-4. 400*13. Overcurrent Protection. Flexible cords not smaller than No. 18, and tinsel cords or cords having equivalent characteristics of smaller size approved for use with specific appliances, shall be considered as protected against overcurrent by the overcurrent devices described in Section 240-4. | ||
| Kyle Brandt (Kyle4501)
Registered Member Username: Kyle4501 Post Number: 239 Registered: 9-2004 Posted From: 65.23.106.193 Rating: N/A |
The outlets & switches I used in Dad's shop have built in screw clamps for the wire, the wire does not touch the screw head. You use the strip gauge & insert the wire in the correct hole & tighten the screw. Mechanically speaking, of all the elecrtical connections I have ever used, this was the easiest to do properly. The wire stays captured & can't slip out from under the screw head. No sodering or crimping. Just use a cordless drill with the torque set to prevent under tightening. works for me . . . so far anyways :^) | ||
| David Dulmage (Daved)
Registered Member Username: Daved Post Number: 152 Registered: 12-2003 Posted From: 142.46.199.30 Rating: N/A |
120 Vac outlets and switches are designed for use with solid wire. The wire-to-switch or wire-to-outlet connection is where there is the greatest potential for oveheating. Making good crimp connections with stranded wire requires good tools as well as skill in using them. The standards for recreational vehicle wiring permit the use of Romex. The important thing, when using this wire, is to ensure that it is properly anchored where it enters an outlet or switch box and that it is adequately protected against mechanical damage. It is intended that it be used in enclosed areas. I used BX cable in our conversion, as it has the additional protection of the metal sheath. DaveD | ||
| Cliff (Floridacracker)
Registered Member Username: Floridacracker Post Number: 305 Registered: 7-2004 Posted From: 65.33.146.203 Rating: N/A |
Len, Agreed, I am not trying to debate the common sense of this either. Thanks for putting that NEC section in your post. I do think the "spirit" of the rules is to prevent the flexible cables from being used instead of hardwiring installations in a commercial/residential and having temporary wires running all over the place. Does this also apply to mobile applications? Cliff | ||
| Len Silva (Lsilva)
Registered Member Username: Lsilva Post Number: 61 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 67.141.146.248 Rating: N/A |
Cliff, I could post the section if you want, but basically Article 551 deals with Recreational vehicles, motor homes, travel trailers etc. and the basic wiring methods are the same as for a residence. The only real difference is in the isolated neutral. Len | ||
| Brian Brown (Blue_velvet)
Registered Member Username: Blue_velvet Post Number: 395 Registered: 6-2005 Posted From: 76.186.181.86 Rating: |
Len, not to split hairs, but it's a code vilation in ANY electrical installation to have but ONE bonded neutral. It's common to forget this on sub panels and wire the neutrals and grounds to the same bus bar... but it's a violation for the very same reasons. bb | ||
| Len Silva (Lsilva)
Registered Member Username: Lsilva Post Number: 62 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 67.141.146.248 Rating: N/A |
Agreed, I hadn't thought about sub panels. I got out of the trade about thirty years ago when I found myself in telephone work. Still keep an old code book around though. Len | ||
| Brian Elfert (Belfert)
Registered Member Username: Belfert Post Number: 21 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 132.148.80.215 Rating: N/A |
Yes, marine stranded wire/cable is almost all UL listed these days. The RVIA codes are written by the guys making RVs hopefully for a profit. Their code is going to be the least expensive way to do something so they make a profit. Brian Elfert | ||
| Darren Upfield (Mwerx)
Registered Member Username: Mwerx Post Number: 13 Registered: 6-2006 Posted From: 66.82.9.58 Rating: N/A |
Hi all I saw on one site they used different coloured extension cord,are you saying this should not be used ??? Darren. | ||
| Len Silva (Lsilva)
Registered Member Username: Lsilva Post Number: 63 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 71.31.111.119 Rating: |
QUOTE Hi all I saw on one site they used different coloured extension cord,are you saying this should not be used ??? Darren. QUOTE Absolutely. I know who you mean and I think his conversions are fantastic and very well built but we strongly disagree on wiring methods. If I were to buy one of his conversions I would have to rewire it (in Romex) before I could spend one night sleeping in it. Len | ||
| Richard Bowyer (Drivingmisslazy)
Registered Member Username: Drivingmisslazy Post Number: 1745 Registered: 1-2001 Posted From: 75.108.82.163 Rating: |
Len, I have never heard of a single person ever having trouble with one of his conversions. Have you? Richard | ||
| Len Silva (Lsilva)
Registered Member Username: Lsilva Post Number: 64 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 71.31.111.119 Rating: N/A |
No, I never have heard of any problems, and I have a high regard for his workmanship, it's just me. Having been raised on the NEC it just makes me very uncomfortable. I look around my shop at dozens of extension cords of various ages and some are old and look great, other have crumbling insulation. All have UL labels. Just not something I want to chance. On the other hand, I feel that solid wire type NM (Romex) or MC (BX) are perfectly suitable for wiring in a bus conversion. They meet the requirements of the NEC and if properly installed there is no relative movement between the wire and the device. Len | ||
| David Ljung Madison (Daveola)
Registered Member Username: Daveola Post Number: 117 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 63.204.157.4 Rating: N/A |
Regarding neutral-ground connections: My Xantrex inverter claims that it needs a neutral-ground under some conditions. I could find the docs if needed. Is this something I want to do only when *not* hooked up to shore power, or is this something that should never be done? (Or am I misreading the xantrex docs?) | ||
| Brian Brown (Blue_velvet)
Registered Member Username: Blue_velvet Post Number: 397 Registered: 6-2005 Posted From: 72.19.152.144 Rating: N/A |
David, you must have only ONE neutral bond, provided at the source of your power, be it shore, genset, or inverter. Many inverters will handle this bonding switch internally, but I've heard here and elsewhere that the high-end Trace SW units do not do this... leading to endless frustration for those RV'ers that purchased them. I suppose that it is that unit's highest-end function, load-sharing, that is likely to blame for this condition. Exactly how is an inverter to come online and make-up for a low-power shore or genset connection... and somehow keep only ONE neutral bond??? Inquiring minds... Anyways, make certain that your inverter does do the switching correctly. You can easily check for neutral bond faults with a continuity tester. Just put one probe to a ground wire and the other to a neutral. If you pull the shore cord and remove the genset and inverter, you should have open connections. Attach the shore cord and you should get a short (from your power pole bond). Bring the genset connection online (plug, transfer switch, etc.) and do the same. Finally, bring the inverter online and check it. HTH, Brian Brown (Message edited by blue_velvet on November 20, 2006) | ||
| ChuckMC9 (Chucks)
Registered Member Username: Chucks Post Number: 1061 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 64.105.16.206 Rating: N/A |
Here's a new twist! You have to downgrade your wire if you're planning to use ENT or RNC. I found in the NEC book that the wire temperature rating cannot exceed the rating of the conduit. Makes sense in an industrial environment, but I AIN'T giving up my brand new 10/3 105 strand Marine Cable for nuthin! It's rated 105C, and both of those conduits are rated 90C. That's all HD has. Hmmm... :: ENT = Electrical Non-metallic Tubing :: RNC = Rigid Non-metallic Conduit PS: Glad you made it home, BB! (Message edited by chucks on November 20, 2006) | ||
| Richard Bowyer (Drivingmisslazy)
Registered Member Username: Drivingmisslazy Post Number: 1750 Registered: 1-2001 Posted From: 75.108.82.163 Rating: N/A |
Just drop the load rating down so that the temperature rise does not exceed the conduit rating. Probably a drop from 10 to 12. Richard | ||
| Bob greenwood (Bob_greenwood)
Registered Member Username: Bob_greenwood Post Number: 366 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 4.90.6.76 Rating: N/A |
Chuck....uhhh....did you wire your whole coach with #10???planning on welding from every outlet??  | ||
| ChuckMC9 (Chucks)
Registered Member Username: Chucks Post Number: 1062 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 64.105.16.206 Rating: N/A |
Oh, should have said that's just for the carbunkles™. (individual circuits for each) I did the rest of it some time ago with 12/3. And the load certainly isn't a problem. I had never seen this mentioned on any of the boards, so thought I"d inquire. (Message edited by chucks on November 20, 2006) | ||
| Bob greenwood (Bob_greenwood)
Registered Member Username: Bob_greenwood Post Number: 367 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 4.90.6.76 Rating: N/A |
Thought we were going to have to call you 'OVERKILL CHUCK' | ||
| FAST FRED (Fast_fred)
Registered Member Username: Fast_fred Post Number: 31 Registered: 10-2006 Posted From: 4.235.201.135 Rating: N/A |
Using a single wire size has the great advantage of the least V drop . It also can be inexpensive as a full (500ft?) roll is the best way to purchase it. Add the simplicity of only one size of terminal ends to learn to properly install . 10ga Boat Cable for most everything works for me, FAST FRED (Message edited by fast_fred on November 21, 2006) | ||
| ChuckMC9 (Chucks)
Registered Member Username: Chucks Post Number: 1063 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 64.105.16.206 Rating: N/A |
In the spirit of the fleeting love-fest between Ace and Fast Fred I want to give credit to Fast Fred for the idea of boat wire in the first place. At least my most important circuits are done "his way." I now have the dreaded "crimper-tunnel-syndrome" from all the tinning, crimping, soldering and heatshrinking I've done! Even though I am taking the other direction by using carbunkles™. carbunkle™ is a registered Fast Fred trademark |
