| Author | Message | ||
| Dilip&ZOE mostlyDilip. (Vintagehounds)
Registered Member Username: Vintagehounds Post Number: 59 Registered: 10-2006 Posted From: 24.208.74.57 Rating: N/A |
any advice for this area would be appreciated. may need a warranty job done by them for a shop in lansing that didnt adjust the new one they put in last week. The pedal was without any freeplay and when I encounterer slipping I opened my book and got out to find the adjuster wheel and gave it about an inch and a half pedal freeplay which helped but I think the clutch is heat glazed and hardened and cracking along edges. probaly can not be repaired? I contacted lansing repair shop owner and he says to get it to a shop for inspection and notify him. I can drive bus carefully to area surrounding Lincoln Nebraska. I have a phone book and will call who ever looks good tommorrow morning but thought Id get some of the magical advise from my fellow busnuts .Dilip.. p.s. On my way home to California and at least I have a good friend to stay with here in Lincoln area. any advice would be much appreciated..... | ||
| Dilip&ZOE mostlyDilip. (Vintagehounds)
Registered Member Username: Vintagehounds Post Number: 60 Registered: 10-2006 Posted From: 24.208.74.57 Rating: N/A |
also because I had not driven this bus before and thought that the shop were the professionals{ I even gave them the manual to use while working on it} I didnt know about the freeplay needed until the slipping started and thats what I paid them to do for me. Shouldnt they be fully responsible for my time and repairs needed? I think so. Any advice here to help me keep them on the up and up would be appreciated also.. I did ask the shop owner in Lansing about his labor warranty and he said it would be tough to give me one cause I was leaving the area but also stated that if I did encounter a problem that he would have to step up to the plate.... My first question when calling him back with the problem was if he knew how much freeplay was left in the pedal when they finished and adjusted the job and he said he didnt know because his mechanic did the job. I told him how when I picked it up it had no freeplay at all. It was hard to push all the way even at the top of the stroke no freeplay at all. Had i known like I do now about how the adjustment should feel I could have adjusted it in time to not have been a problem but again it was my first bus and I paid a proffesional... Right. | ||
| Dilip&ZOE mostlyDilip. (Vintagehounds)
Registered Member Username: Vintagehounds Post Number: 61 Registered: 10-2006 Posted From: 24.208.74.57 Rating: N/A |
also I paid for a flywheel to be machined but noticed a rough grab and let go{jerking} when letting out clutch. Is this possibly a sign that the flywheel was not turned or turned improperly? THX>>>> | ||
| RJ Long (Rjlong)
Registered Member Username: Rjlong Post Number: 1136 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 67.181.163.170 Rating: N/A |
Dilip - Proper clutch adjustment on your coach starts at the front end, not in the engine compartment (it's in DA BOOK!) You must follow the shop manual's procedure to get it adjusted correctly. It's possible that the Lansing shop didn't start up front. . . As for the rough grab, most manual transmission coaches will walk away from a dead stop at idle, using NO THROTTLE, as you feather the clutch thru the take-up point. If you're feeding throttle to the engine while coming thru the take-up point, you're going to get some grabbing - unless you've got the engine revved so much that you're seriously slipping the clutch, in which case, you'll burn it up quickly. Takes practice to learn how to do a dead throttle start smoothly. . . FWIW & HTH,  | ||
| Bob greenwood (Bob_greenwood)
Registered Member Username: Bob_greenwood Post Number: 461 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 64.136.49.228 Rating: N/A |
yep... to all newbys...don't touch the throttle till the clutch is all the way out | ||
| Richard Bowyer (Drivingmisslazy)
Registered Member Username: Drivingmisslazy Post Number: 1771 Registered: 1-2001 Posted From: 75.108.82.163 Rating: N/A |
And expect a little jerk. You do not get 30,000 plus pounds moving smoothly. DO NOT let the clutch out part way and hold till the vehicle starts moving. Let it all the way out. Richard | ||
| Dilip&ZOE mostlyDilip. (Vintagehounds)
Registered Member Username: Vintagehounds Post Number: 62 Registered: 10-2006 Posted From: 24.208.74.57 Rating: N/A |
learning the hard way thanks guys | ||
| Gus Causbie (Gusc)
Registered Member Username: Gusc Post Number: 246 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 63.97.117.25 Rating: N/A |
"Pros" do not necessarily know these old GMCs. One of the best bus guys put 90W oil in my 4104 trans (It's supposed to be 50W). Luckily it was only a couple of pints and warm weather! Truck repair shops do not usually know these buses so you must supervise and refer to your manuals. They also will usually try to put 15W-40 in the engine-don't let them. And, it can't be said too many times, do not let the clutch out slowly like a car, let it quickly at engine idle. To do otherwise will cause exactly what has happened to your clutch. | ||
| Dilip&ZOE mostlyDilip. (Vintagehounds)
Registered Member Username: Vintagehounds Post Number: 63 Registered: 10-2006 Posted From: 24.208.74.57 Rating: N/A |
gus , What would happen to a clutch that was being driven correctly but was not correctly set from being installed new and would you assume ( i know what assume means) that if you gave a manual with instructions on using and setting by the manual to the tech or mechanic that doing it their way and assuming it was correct and not even checking the manual on what was already being looked at as a special and out of the ordinary job that the people I paid to do the job for me should assume responsibility for just that.. I can assure you that I may have not been listening to what was told to me previously by r. j. long and how to dts but had the clutch been adjusted correctly and by the manual to begin with that I might have caught the feel of how it should be clutched sooner!!! I can feel things pretty well when i drive but if IM just beginning tp drive something new it might take me a bit to get the hang of it.. if I start driving what i am ASSUMING is set properly shouldnt I be feeling for whats actually the wrong way to clutch it???? My clutch is burnt and I want the shop the installed and took my money happily to step up to the plate and pay for needed fix under warranty.. maybe for my inexperience in driving the clutch I could be responsible for it a bit but Im not convinced... Any words of wisdom from anyone would be appreciated because now that ive started on my bus investment and basically love my bus Im going to do a lot of learning here and expense but im trying to keep whats fair ... Fair.. THANKS Dilip | ||
| Gus Causbie (Gusc)
Registered Member Username: Gusc Post Number: 250 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 63.97.117.38 Rating: N/A |
Dilip, As a fellow 4104 owner I really feel for you with all this trouble. I didn't mean my post to sound as if I were blaming you but on rereading it I can see it sounds that way. If the clutch had no freeplay it probably would slip and burn our or at least glaze over. Slipping it when starting up can cause the same thing. If it stopped slipping after you adjusted the wheel it was certainly misadjusted. It is really hard here to say who is at fault, probably a bit of both. You are not the first victim of slipping a clutch on a diesel vehicle. It was news to me when I first started driving diesel trucks but the truck owner let me know in no uncertain terms not to slip it! Unfortunately, the 4104 Operating Manual doesn't really cover this very well but those old time drivers probably already knew. The clutch adjusting process is much more difficult and time consuming than it sounds in the manual and most mechanics just won't take the time to do it right. You just have to dig in and do it yourself. Also, if your linkage is sloppy it can never be adjusted properly. I know, I spent a couple of weeks rebuilding mine when it was almost falling apart. Some of my link pins, bellcrank arms and forks were worn almost all the way through. It could never have been adjusted properly the way it was. As you have already discovered, mechanics don't like being told how to do their jobs by us non-mechanics even if they don't know what they are doing! Neither do the guys in parts stores. It is the way they are and one has to compensate for it. If you happen to be a female customer it is far worse. That is the reason I said you absolutely have to observe closely (Supervise was not a good word!). I've had some guys refuse to refer to the manual and others who thanked me for showing it to them. One guy tried to remove the drive shaft the reverse of what the manual says and finally did it the manual way-he thanked me! After they complete a job you have to ask questions to find out exactly what they did even if sometimes one might get PO. I was lucky to find some really good mechanics on the road during our first trip. Problems away from home can often turn into a disaster. As a relatively new owner I appreciate your learning curve, it is all absolutely new to me too in spite of being a collector of big antique trucks all these years. At least I learned a lot about diesel clutches from these trucks. You absolutely cannot drive them as you would a gasoline engine vehicle. I wish you well in getting this resolved. Don't get discouraged because this is a great bus and a lot of fun. On our first long trip I had to replace the complete drive shaft in mine while 2200 miles from home. I'm just lucky it didn't disintegrate on the highway. I discovered it in an RV park and had it rebuilt while we camped in comfort! | ||
| Dilip&ZOE mostlyDilip. (Vintagehounds)
Registered Member Username: Vintagehounds Post Number: 64 Registered: 10-2006 Posted From: 24.208.74.57 Rating: N/A |
Gus, I will email you soon. Im neglecting to tell you that the Bus is now sitting at Lincoln Truck Center / Freightliner. Li. Ne. I have given them the manual and told them I want anything done to be checked through the manual...( in fact I just called them to write on my work order customer request that everything done on that bus be checked and double checked through the manual I have left for them) I have contracted them to inspect for burnt clutch and to check why the speedo is not working. Both of which were repaired by the shop in Lansing along with an R&R of the trans ( weller warrantied rebuild) that I fried and snapped on the begining of my first journey home with my "new" bus. I got a tow and to the shop and discussed and got them started on repairs etc. Flew home for thanksgiving and returned to Lansing Dec 5 to wait a few more days for completion of job and start home to Calif again.. I gave the time and never balked at pricing and made it a point to always deal directly with the owner of the 20 year old fleet service type shop. I had him install rear air bags because of a bulge in one he reported and also a block heater both of which "Luke"( I think his last name is Skywalker.) came through with for me and also new bladder hardware. Brake valve leaking too, MY gauge for air valve was reading 100 before and now 105 to 110. new clutch due to at 75% wear as notified, and 40 wt that i picked up delron new filters oil and canister style fuel filter, I suspect i should change the filter now or at least inspect it.... some type of rear diaphragm that leaked for brakes . anyway i stayed in contact and paid the bill as we went to the tune of about 9k . I went to pick up bus and asked the mechanic if I needed to make any adjust to clutch while I pointed at the adjust wheel w/ him there.. also inquired of other things like fuel lines to and out of filter looking bad and had them fix that while I waited and also tighten down my right side view mirror which i told them how I wanted it repaired and helped. used their air to check my spare behind the front bumper and had a left front head light wires repaired best i knew how asked many questions. anyway Im getting my answer about whats going on with the bus and they are not saying engine problem but hinted at it and I know from looking the clutch is burnt and chipped at edges in areas. I have given the owner of the Lansing shop the place , name and service advisors name for the Lincoln Truck Center. When I reported to the owner of the Lansing shop because after noticing the problem I got out and made the freeplay adjust to the clutch pedal . I guess I did it from the back of the bus but it gave freeplay and actually made me say for a second that wow this is so much better clutch smoothness and felt the difference in power transfer immediately and at that point realized when going up a hill into Omaha that I had a Damaged clutch because it was still just slipping and powertransfer was not easy for me... The first question I asked the Lansing shop owner was How much freeplay did you leave in my clutch pedal... He said he didnt know and would have to ask his mechanic. Probably the same one I showed and asked about any adjustment needed!!! Anyway he said to take it to a shop in Lincoln and I offered for him to find the shop himself or me to. So i got it there for an inspect and report type deal.. What I really need is answers to this so that I can stay focused on dealing with getting the owner of Lansing shop to take responsibility for his workmanship in my job. WE had a verbal agreement that because I was out of the area a labor warranty would have to be made if he were required to step up to the plate.. I might have skaken hands and were both fine with that.. I should have got it in writing in hindsight.. Im so green-grass wont grow near. Anyway 800 miles or so {Speedo/ ODO not working} later thats my story. Monday i will find out the inspection report.... Anyone with anything for me nows the time Im needing help. Im Flying home Tuesday a.m and the place that is working on my truck now is open 24hrs Lots of trucks go through there. I could see it in their lot vehicles about 20 to 30 trucks came in in one day and I hope thats how many were leaving too!!! Thanks all so far and I know that all your inputs have been to share with me as best you can. Im just stressing a bit right now and at least im stuck in a place where I have my very good freinds that just moved out to the Lincoln area to take care of me while im here.. Always looking for the bright side of things right now.....Dilip p.s im flying home to calif on tues morning / christmas this time. hoping to get this either decided on or store the bus til I can deal with it better. Hopefully it gets decided on monday one way or another. A BIG THX in Advance... | ||
| RJ Long (Rjlong)
Registered Member Username: Rjlong Post Number: 1137 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 67.181.163.170 Rating: |
Dilip - Clarification on the dead throttle start: Several folk mentioned "just let it out". Fine - if you have a 13-speed roadranger that 1st gear allows you to climb the side of the Transamerica Pyramid in SF with. First gear in your 4104 is more like 4th or 5th gear in a RoadRanger - way too tall for that type of action. You have to "walk it" thru the take-up point, which is why I used the term feather it in an earlier post. It's a fine line between slipping it and "dumping it" that takes practice. Do it correctly, and it can be as smooth as an automatic. Do it wrong, and you either "spill the red wine", or have to replace parts prematurely. On to other notes: There are two bus companies listed in the Bus Garage Index in Lincoln, NE. Suggest you call them Monday AM and talk to their shop supervisors about your situation. If they cannot help, perhaps they can give you a reference. The shops are: Arrow Stage Lines - Lincoln Office 1329 Dawes Ave Lincoln NE 68521-2349 Garage Phone: 402-475-9229 In Charge: Pete Wooley Kincaid Coach Lines, Inc. 3160 N 33rd St Lincoln NE 68504-1575 Garage Phone: 402-467-2900 In Charge: Joe Ponsont Everyone - The above bus companies are listed in the Bus Garage Index, printed annually by the publishers of "Bus Ride" magazine, Power Trade Media. This publication lists over 1,700 garages and repair shops in the US & Canada, and should be in EVERY busnut's library. Well worth the purchase price. For more info, or to order your own copy, write bgi@busride.com. I have no affiliation with these guys, just providing contact info. FWIW & HTH. . . | ||
| Dilip&ZOE mostlyDilip. (Vintagehounds)
Registered Member Username: Vintagehounds Post Number: 65 Registered: 10-2006 Posted From: 24.208.74.57 Rating: N/A |
thanks rj im calling these guys 1st thing mon a.m. they are both closed now... | ||
| Gus Causbie (Gusc)
Registered Member Username: Gusc Post Number: 253 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 63.97.117.16 Rating: N/A |
RJ, Your email link to the Bus Garage Index didn't work for me, it was returned. Could you recheck the address for us in your latest Inded? Thanks. | ||
| RJ Long (Rjlong)
Registered Member Username: Rjlong Post Number: 1138 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 67.181.163.170 Rating: N/A |
Gus (and others) - There is a link for the Bus Garage Index off the main Bus Ride web page listed below: www.busride.com Sorry I didn't check it originally before posting. | ||
| Dilip&ZOE mostlyDilip. (Vintagehounds)
Registered Member Username: Vintagehounds Post Number: 66 Registered: 10-2006 Posted From: 24.208.74.57 Rating: N/A |
Both places were helpful but unable to take on my job.. Mr Ponsont has been a great help in locating the shop that I have chosen. Stevenson Truck repair. The manager there Jeff is having his man pick my bus up to get it over to their place.. Ill keep posting as I can.. Thanks all. Merry Holiday or Happy Christmas or Happy Holidays. Pick one. Appreciate you all. | ||
| Dilip&ZOE mostlyDilip. (Vintagehounds)
Registered Member Username: Vintagehounds Post Number: 68 Registered: 10-2006 Posted From: 24.208.74.57 Rating: N/A |
hey duane, can you come and hold my hand out here in lincoln? Im trying to go home to Calif and would like to be alive to recieve one of your diploma Ideas!!!! I wish I bought mine from my father in law too!!!!! congrats to you Duane. And You are a bus nut already... Not just your f.i.L.... Dilip | ||
| Gus Causbie (Gusc)
Registered Member Username: Gusc Post Number: 254 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 63.97.117.48 Rating: N/A |
RJ, Thanks. I finally Googled it and ordered my index, this should be a great thing to have on some of those long XC trips. |
