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Message |
Gerald Norman (Gnorman46)
Registered Member
Username: Gnorman46
Post Number: 1
Registered: 12-2006
Posted From: 209.198.167.249
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, December 17, 2006 - 4:46 pm: | |
I just bought a GMC 4104 that has been sitting 13 years and the previous owner had just put 100 gallons of diesel in the tank, what can I do if anything to bring it back? |
Bob greenwood (Bob_greenwood)
Registered Member
Username: Bob_greenwood
Post Number: 467
Registered: 7-2006
Posted From: 64.136.49.228
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, December 17, 2006 - 5:38 pm: | |
number one thing,see if you can find a drain on the bottom & drain out about 5 gallons...diesel absorbs moisture & of course,it goes to the bottom of the tank,also catch it in a clean pan & examine what comes out.then report back,for more steps,depending on what you find in that 5 gallons...BOTH TANKS |
Gerald Norman (Gnorman46)
Registered Member
Username: Gnorman46
Post Number: 2
Registered: 12-2006
Posted From: 209.198.167.249
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, December 17, 2006 - 6:43 pm: | |
Will do Thanks. |
Christopher Goodwin (Cgoodwin)
Registered Member
Username: Cgoodwin
Post Number: 51
Registered: 10-2005
Posted From: 71.212.79.58
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, December 17, 2006 - 6:47 pm: | |
You may want to put some biocide in as I am sure by now it would have bacterial growth. You can also send a sample to a lab like blackstone and see how it measures up before using it. |
Bob greenwood (Bob_greenwood)
Registered Member
Username: Bob_greenwood
Post Number: 468
Registered: 7-2006
Posted From: 64.136.49.228
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, December 17, 2006 - 7:04 pm: | |
Gerald...just looked...you aren't too far away,I'm in Los Indios,Tx. |
Gerald Norman (Gnorman46)
Registered Member
Username: Gnorman46
Post Number: 3
Registered: 12-2006
Posted From: 209.198.167.249
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, December 17, 2006 - 7:16 pm: | |
Thanks Chris, I have been reading and I wanted to determine if it was worth putting in the biocide and other chems. I will be towing it home Friday after next then we will begin tesing the fuel. I thought it was a lost cause.
Bob you are pretty close, maybe we will get a look at that bus of yours, that is a nice looking one. |
Richard Bowyer (Drivingmisslazy)
Registered Member
Username: Drivingmisslazy
Post Number: 1776
Registered: 1-2001
Posted From: 75.108.82.163
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, December 17, 2006 - 7:45 pm: | |
I have in the past purchased diesel gensets which are that old and I always was able to use the fuel with some filtering.
Richard |
David Hartley (Drdave)
Registered Member
Username: Drdave
Post Number: 720
Registered: 5-2005
Posted From: 67.78.176.54
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, December 17, 2006 - 9:22 pm: | |
Use the biocide in a large treatment. Add a little fresh diesel, get extra filters so that when the gunk clogs up the primary and secondary you can change them.
Or. Use a transfer pump and pump out the tank, filter and treat the fuel in drums and when it's clean you can use it again.
With the tank empty you can clean it and all the lines before you refuel the bus.
Diesel will last a very long time and still be usable with only a healthy adding of bug killer and good filtering. May not smell real good and the cetane rating will fall off a little but you can get additives to fix that. |
john w. roan (Chessie4905)
Registered Member
Username: Chessie4905
Post Number: 358
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 71.58.126.56
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, December 17, 2006 - 9:38 pm: | |
If you have an oil furnace at home, drain it and use it in your furnace. Then flush out the tank with a little fresh fuel, flush lines add new filters and fuel, bleed system and run on idle for some time, then take it out for a short spin, if it is road worthy.All the time filtering, adding additives and such costs time and money. If you don't have a home oil furnace, then disregard. BTW, the tank has a nice drain plug; just don't drop it while draining the tank. If you take a 55 gal. plastic drum and cut both ends off short enough to get under coach, they will make draining a lot easier. Mark drum the whole way around and use a sawzall. Works fast and easy- clean out the blue sawdust and any other residue before using. They also work great to drain coolant or motor oil. |
john w. roan (Chessie4905)
Registered Member
Username: Chessie4905
Post Number: 359
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 71.58.126.56
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, December 17, 2006 - 9:44 pm: | |
Before you try to turn the engine over after 13 years...check prior messages about proper preparation first as there will likely be rust in the cylinder walls and possibly on some cam lobes and rollers. At least pull the valve cover and see what it looks like first. A little precaution first might save you a good deal of money later. |
Gus Causbie (Gusc)
Registered Member
Username: Gusc
Post Number: 252
Registered: 11-2005
Posted From: 63.97.117.16
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, December 18, 2006 - 12:39 am: | |
You will need to clean the primary fuel filter (On the right rear engine firewall) at least 3-4 times. Do it before you try to start the engine and again after no more than a half hour of operation. Again after about two hours then again in a day or two. It should begin to get a lot cleaner after this and this will save clogged secondary filters. |
FAST FRED (Fast_fred)
Registered Member
Username: Fast_fred
Post Number: 75
Registered: 10-2006
Posted From: 4.235.202.187
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, December 18, 2006 - 5:44 am: | |
Diesel can not resist the tend to return to its origonal form.
It clumps together "Ashphalting" and forms clumps frequently mistaken for bugs.
Any good marine filter (Raycor ect) will have a 2 micron element , and a single pass will clean the fuel enough to use.
I would drain the tank, let it settle and filter it and return it to the tank.
I would also get fresh clean fuel and out it into an old SS pressurizing fire extinguisher.
Dump the old primary and secondary filters and prime them with the fresh fuel.
I would also pull the lube oil (even tho its cold) and replace it and the filter.
A charged set of 8D's and you should be underway.
FF |
Gerald Norman (Gnorman46)
Registered Member
Username: Gnorman46
Post Number: 5
Registered: 12-2006
Posted From: 143.166.255.40
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, December 18, 2006 - 8:38 am: | |
I am not that far yet. The motor is going to have to have an in frame OH at least, I am just getting the bus Friday after next and will be starting on it then. I just needed to find out if I could save the fuel that was in the tank. Thanks for all the advice and I will put all of it into a file so I can follow step by step.
Thanks again. |
FAST FRED (Fast_fred)
Registered Member
Username: Fast_fred
Post Number: 77
Registered: 10-2006
Posted From: 4.235.203.217
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, December 19, 2006 - 5:10 am: | |
The motor is going to have to have an in frame OH at least,
If a starter will turn it over you should go for a RIDE!
You may be very pleasantly suppreised.
FF |
George M. Todd (George_mc6)
Registered Member
Username: George_mc6
Post Number: 49
Registered: 8-2006
Posted From: 207.231.80.150
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, December 19, 2006 - 10:24 am: | |
Although I understand the thought behind an in frame overhaul already being required, I wouldn't take the chance of upgrading it to an out of frame overhaul by hitting the starter on an engine that has sat for 13 years! A hydraulic lock will bend or break the crank, and/or the head. If a rod bends, and the engine starts, everything is junk.
So, as suggested above, drain several gallons off the bottom of the tank, add biocide, and change the filters. Try and bar the engine over, if it will turn, then get a small pump. Drain the old oil, change the oil filters, put half the oil in as usual, then remove the oil pressure sending unit, and pump the rest of the oil in the fitting on the engine, which will lubricate all the bearings, cams, gear drives etc. Replace the sending unit(s), and be sure you have barred the engine over one complete turn. Check the operation of the engine air shutoff, also known as the slammer, butterfly, mousetrap, or? as stuck injectors are a REAL possibility! Now you are ready to try a start, just be in position to trip the butterfly if the engine runs away! |
Bob greenwood (Bob_greenwood)
Registered Member
Username: Bob_greenwood
Post Number: 475
Registered: 7-2006
Posted From: 64.136.49.228
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, December 19, 2006 - 1:21 pm: | |
kinda depends on the report from the previous owner....if he quit running it because it was bad...no need to try... it hasn't 'healed' in 13 years.... |
joe padberg (Joemc7ab)
Registered Member
Username: Joemc7ab
Post Number: 60
Registered: 6-2004
Posted From: 66.38.159.33
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, December 19, 2006 - 2:56 pm: | |
Prelubing the engine would be an excellent idea. Joe. |
Gerald Norman (Gnorman46)
Registered Member
Username: Gnorman46
Post Number: 7
Registered: 12-2006
Posted From: 209.198.167.249
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, December 19, 2006 - 10:03 pm: | |
The prev owner told me it started making a loud knocking sound and they killed the engine and towed it home, he said a mech looked at it and guessed a sleeve or something like that. I am guessing take the head off and look. |
Bob greenwood (Bob_greenwood)
Registered Member
Username: Bob_greenwood
Post Number: 484
Registered: 7-2006
Posted From: 64.136.49.228
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, December 19, 2006 - 10:27 pm: | |
no need to try to start that ( !! )
Jim in Victoria has a 8v71 & a auto out of a 4104...should make yours a hot rod..you might even get him to put it in..depends if he is working now Think it's : jimcat2@webtv.net |
Stephen Fessenden (Sffess)
Registered Member
Username: Sffess
Post Number: 670
Registered: 1-2002
Posted From: 67.142.130.28
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, December 19, 2006 - 11:28 pm: | |
You all keep suggesting a biocide. If the bacteria are there and have done their work the biocide will not reverse it. Biocide is more like putting an antibiotic in the tank to kill the bacteria. It does not disolve the sludge. It is not like dissolving gum in gasoline with an additive. The crud will still be crud. That, obviously is why people have suggested settling and filtering. Of course their may not be any crud. The fuel could still be good, and your filters should catch the stuff and clog without it getting to the engine. |
George M. Todd (George_mc6)
Registered Member
Username: George_mc6
Post Number: 50
Registered: 8-2006
Posted From: 207.231.81.154
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, December 20, 2006 - 11:50 am: | |
Bacteria don't grow in diesel fuel, or do anything to it, "they" grow the water in the bottom of un-used tanks! As all fuel pickups are in the bottom of tanks, the first thing picked up is the water. With it comes the algae which the bacteria produce, and the resulting problems. As pickups are a dip tube from the top of the tank, they don't quite touch the bottom, or no fuel could get in. So, not quite all the water is picked up, which is why all of us are recommending biocide, which has NO effect on diesel fuel, it just stops the bugs from growing in the water under it! Then, you drain the water from the separator on the fuel filters, and throw out the previously grown algae with the dirty filters... |
Gerald Norman (Gnorman46)
Registered Member
Username: Gnorman46
Post Number: 10
Registered: 12-2006
Posted From: 143.166.226.42
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, December 22, 2006 - 8:17 am: | |
Thanks for all the help, I am pretty confident I can save the fuel now, I will drain and test to be sure then follow up on all the advice. Thanks again |
Jim Wilke (Pd41044039)
Registered Member
Username: Pd41044039
Post Number: 99
Registered: 2-2001
Posted From: 69.77.151.82
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, December 22, 2006 - 1:10 pm: | |
Gerald, before overhauling the engine I would pull the injectors & either have them rebuilt or replace with rebuilt. Then find a guy who KNOWS DD 2 strokes to set the valves & injector rack assemblies. Pay him to start the engine with/for you. If he's good, this is money well spent!
As others have mentioned, be sure the emergency stop works correctly. Remember that the bus needs air pressure to shut off the engine so won't stop normally until air builds up. (Can take 3-5 minutes!)
Your knowledgeable DD guy will likely start the engine with the rocker cover off & a pair of vice grips on the injector rack to control it 'till he's sure all is O.K.
After you run the engine about 10 minutes and are sure there is oil pressure & no fuel or water leaks (pressure with straight 40 weight it should be about 40 PSI cold & anything above about 5-8 lbs at full op temp after a run) Take the bus for a drive around the block. (bring a chase car just in case!) Then a little further. Work up 'till you can drive about 45 minutes to 1 hour and the engine has been at correct operating temp for that long. Engine needs to get up to about 180 to get clean! (A 50 mile run is good.)
Assuming the basics, oil pressure, etc are O.K., do not condemn the engine until after you have run it an hour at highway speed (60 +/-) to clean it out & loosen everything up. The engine should idle nicely after that run with little or no smoke.
If, during the above process or after the run it does not have enough oil pressure (min about 20 driving down the road) or smokes badly after the run, then an overhaul may be indicated.
It is really surprising how these old beasts gunk up & need to get out & stretch their legs. They get stiff after sitting around.
Jim-Bob
PD4104-4039 ('59) |