| Author |
Message |
J.Meyers (208.169.40.156)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, January 28, 2002 - 9:14 pm: | |
Looking for infomation on history of GM coach PD 4107-1076. I would like to know who purchased the coach new and any other history if it is available .Can anyone tell me where I can find this information. |
Jayjay (207.30.115.168)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, January 30, 2002 - 9:47 pm: | |
If the Bus Gods deign to smile upon you, one Mr. R.J. Long will see your post and respond accordingly. He is the GURU on these matters, because he is in touch with you-know-who (upon high) and knows everything about old buses. Thru R.J. I even ended up with photos of my 4905 in Stillwell, Oklahoma, Circa 1974 (compliments of Mr. Fred Rayman. Cheers...JJ |
RJ Long (24.127.8.58)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, January 31, 2002 - 2:42 am: | |
To J. Myers:
PD4107-1076 was originally delivered to Ohio Rapid Transit (Lake Shore System), Columbus, OH in February of 1968. It carried fleet number 579.
To JayJay:
You are Bad!! ROFLMAO. . .
RJ |
J.Meyers (208.169.40.125)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, January 31, 2002 - 8:46 pm: | |
To RJ:
Thanks for the info. on the history of our bus.
Also thanks to John & Shirley Vickers for the e-mail of the history while the board was down.
Answers lead to more questions.
Does anyone have any data or ideas on a way to trace the history after the original purchaser?
To JayJay:
It seems the bus gods did smile on me.
Thanks again to all.
J.Meyers |
johnwood (206.252.229.184)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, April 18, 2002 - 9:05 pm: | |
I would like to know the history of my prospective bus. pd4107-152.
As a side question, It apparently has a VS2 transmission. Is this good, bad or indifferent? And how can a prospective buyer ascertain the roadworthiness if this tranny? Any obvious things to look for?
Thanks!
John |
RJ Long (Rjlong) (24.127.8.58)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, April 18, 2002 - 9:33 pm: | |
John -
PD4107-152 was originally delivered to Vermont Transit Company of Burlington, VT, in May of 1966. It carried fleet number V803.
As to the VS2, it's a good gearbox, quite dependable, actually. Try to find the serial number plate on it, and then contact Allison to find out the specs.
The 4107, btw, is the first of the "buffalo" buses built by GM. It's a good unit, with tons of baggage space for a 35' coach.
My only real complaint about the 4107 and 4108, after putting over fifty thousand miles in them back in my charter driver days, is that they can be a REAL handful in heavy crosswinds. Their sisters, the 4903 & 4905, don't have that problem near as much, due to the five foot longer wheelbase.
Good Luck, and HTH,
RJ
PD4106-2784
Fresno CA |
johnwood (206.252.229.184)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, April 18, 2002 - 11:18 pm: | |
Could you tell me more about the differences in the 41** series? And does the 06 handle better than the 07 and 08?
And thanks for the info!! |
RJ Long (Rjlong) (24.127.8.58)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, April 19, 2002 - 12:47 am: | |
John -
4101 - 4103: First of the 41 passenger series, built from 1948 thru 1952. Steel spring suspension, small baggage bays, small windows. Nearly impossible to find replacement windshields.
4104: Industry workhorse for nearly 20 years. 5,065 built between 1953 - 1960, a number not surpassed until the MC-9. First highway coach with air suspension, now the industry standard. Used a pony engine to power the A/C. 6-71 inline DDA w/ 4-spd manual gearbox, virtually unbreakable when properly maintained. Top speed about 65, but will run "sittin' on the governor" all day long at that speed. Mountain terrain requires lots of shifting, figure 30 mph in 2nd gear on 6 & 7% grades. Automatics can be installed, a major project far outweighing the resale value of the coach, and best accomplished with an entire powertrain upgrade, including a rear axle swap due to different pumpkin offset. That so many have survived today is a testament to GM's engineering and construction capabilities.
4106: The "next generation", basically an updated 4104. Different front/rear caps, larger side & rear windows, V-8 power, elimination of the pony a/c engine, different (and awful) dash & controls (A cost-saving measure by GM - they borrowed heavily from the transit bus dash's parts bin. Howls of protest by industry prompted change with the 4107.) Affectionately known by long-time bus folk as "the sports car of buses" due to it's light weight, V-8 4-spd powertrain, and good handling. Decent fuel mileage, too. 3325 built from 1961 - 1965, didn't really sell in quantity like the 4104, as the industry began to shift to 40-footers.
4107: The first of the hi-deck "buffalo" buses, so named for the "hump" on the roof. GM's response to industry requests for more baggage space to handle the increasing parcel express services being offered. First three rows of seats are, to use a current term, "stadium seating", then the floor levels off. (This creates interesting challenges for converters.) Same powertrain components as the 4106, matter of fact, GM kept this layout right up until the end of highway coach production in 1980. 24v system, vs 12v on previous models. As already mentioned, HUGE baggage bins, and the first coach to use pantograph-style bin doors. Built from 1966 thru 1969, only 1265 produced, further evidence of the shift to 40-footers.
4108: Virtually identical to the '07, mostly just trim changes and a different dash, one very similar to the 4104, actually. (Industry was happy about that - the '04 has a nice industrial dash.) A few other components were relocated for better servicability, as well as interior upgrades. Built both as a PD4108 and a P8M4108A (no real difference other than the numbering nomenclature), a total of 297 were built from 1970-1978, making them the rarest of the Buffalos, and the last of the 35' GM highway (or Parlor) cars.
The 4903 and 4905 series are really the same coach as the 4107/4108, but have five feet more wheelbase and another baggage bin. Longest wheelbase of any 40-foot highway coach built, and longer than some 45-footers, yet they'll turn tighter than an MC-9! That long wheelbase contributes to one of the finest rides out there, and they're extremely comfortable to drive, too.
All of the GM buses, btw, have no frame to speak of. The exterior skin is the frame of the coach, just like an airplane. Don't even think about slide-outs, and raising the roof is a challenge, as the roof helps support the engine.
Might I make a suggestion? Before you plunk down your hard-earned $$$ on a bus, spend the money on a couple of books by Larry Plachno, the editor of National Bus Trader, an industry rag. "Modern Intercity Coaches" and "Beginner's Guide to Converted Coaches" are the two titles, both available from Amazon.com or www.busmag.com. Well worth the expense, may actually be the best money you'll spend on your bus!
HTH,
RJ
PD4106-2784
Fresno CA |
johnhwood (206.252.234.50)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, April 19, 2002 - 7:48 pm: | |
I have ordered the "beginners guide" and hope Amazon will get it out to me soon.
I really appreciate the rundown you have given on the GM series. This is the best I have seen!
One thing that I did not see is were there any construction materials changed over the various models? Were the GM's made of mild steel, aluminum or stainless. I REALLY worry about corrosion, having seen what it did to an MC8 I saw stripped out. The 4107 I am considering (so far only pictures) shows some vertically oriented ripples (not serious, but apparent) in the skin. Is this a sign of anything to worry about? Roof was raised in '88 by Sundance, the convertor. Owner says there is some minor rust on the side panels above the forward bays and below the windows.
This will be my first bus and actually, my first MH! Big bucks to me, but not in the overall universe of RV's as I've found out.
Again; I thank you for you knowledge and insight on these coaches.
John |
RJ Long (Rjlong) (24.127.8.58)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, April 19, 2002 - 11:38 pm: | |
John -
GM used a larger % of aluminum on the non-Buffalo series coaches, but the basic construction is all aluminum with steel reinforcements in the high-stress areas. IIRC, GM used steel for the hump framing on the buffalos. . .
The forty-foot 4905 with the optional tag axle weighs about 6,500 lbs LESS than the forty-foot MC-9. Aluminum vs stainless steel, basically.
I've heard of Sundance, seems to me they've been around awhile. . .
Raised roof on a buffalo. . . Hmmmmmm, that's interesting. . .
HTH,
RJ
PD4106-2784
Fresno CA |
johnwood (206.252.234.71)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, April 20, 2002 - 6:10 pm: | |
Any idea if skin ripples are a concern? |
RJ Long (Rjlong) (24.127.8.58)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, April 20, 2002 - 9:30 pm: | |
Depends on where the ripples are. . .
If the OEM windows have been skinned over, and that's where it's rippling, it's probably ok.
If it's below the OEM windows, in the body of the bus between the windows and the baggage bay doors, then it may be a problem. . . |
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