| Author | Message | ||
| Jim Schrecengost (Schrec)
Registered Member Username: Schrec Post Number: 9 Registered: 2-2007 Posted From: 67.165.33.150 Rating: N/A |
Can anyone direct me in the right direction to find any National codes required for a bus conversion. Planning on starting one soon and don't want any unexpected hang-ups Schrec | ||
| Ed Jewett (Kristinsgrandpa)
Registered Member Username: Kristinsgrandpa Post Number: 295 Registered: 2-2003 Posted From: 64.24.209.89 Rating: N/A |
The National Electric code is a good guideline for the electrical end, and is the law in most states. It is difficult to understand if you have no electrical background. Since you live in Washington, and it has its own code, you should get a copy of their states codes, if they cover RV's. If they don't cover RV's then you can do like some of the other states, (NJ for instance) wire it with baling wire, it's legal. Just keep your insurance paid up. More info on the electrical code, in Washington, and plumbing codes could probably be found on their website. The archives here are an invaluable source of info for everything concerning a conversion. The answers to 99% of your questions can be found there. Good luck Ed | ||
| Jim Schrecengost (Schrec)
Registered Member Username: Schrec Post Number: 10 Registered: 2-2007 Posted From: 67.165.33.150 Rating: N/A |
Ed Thanks for the info..... However I live outside Pittsburgh Pa. I'll start to look up the state code. Didn't know if there was a Federal code for Rv'S Schrec | ||
| Sean Welsh (Sean)
Registered Member Username: Sean Post Number: 545 Registered: 1-2003 Posted From: 67.45.244.133 Rating: |
Uh boy... here we go again. (Your question is bound to generate a huge debate on this board.) All codes and regulations on this topic are a matter of state, not national, jurisdiction. So whether or not you are legally required to follow any codes at all depends on what state you are in when you do the work, and/or what state the vehicle will be registered in. It also may depend on who does the work: Washington, for example, regulates professional converters but not do-it-yourselfers. All that being said, every state has adopted the Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards (required for the states to receive any federal highway funding at all), and FMVSS section 108 is important if you are doing any work on, for example, replacing exterior lighting. This section dictates required equipment and standards for motor vehicle safety. FMVSS 108 is available on-line. Additionally, every state has adopted the National Electric Code (NEC), promulgated by the National Fire Protection Association (NFPA), a non-profit standards association. A new version of the code comes out every three years, the latest is the 2005 edition. You can find this in most libraries, but I highly recommend you buy your own, as you will refer to it constantly. Get the "Handbook" edition, which, contrary to what the name may suggest, is actually larger than the standard edition, because it includes many illustrations and plain-English explanations. There is an entire section of the code dedicated to RV's, and many other sections are applicable as well, such as wiring methods, grounding, etc.. Available directly from the NFPA, or major booksellers (just be careful not to buy an outdated edition). That covers the vehicle portion and the electical system. Other systems, such as plumbing, wastewater, and LPG, are covered by yet another document, jointly published by the American National Standards Institute (ANSI) and the NFPA, under ANSI A119.2 and NFPA 1192, entitled "Standard on Recreational Vehicles." This publication is available for download as a .PDF from either place, for a nominal fee. The general adoption of this latter document is not as widespread as the NEC. However, the majority of the RV industry has adopted it voluntarily, as it is required for admittance int the Recreational Vehicle Industry Association (RVIA). Some people here on the board have some "issues" with this standard, because an RVIA representative sits on the standards committee, and because the code was largely hammered out by the RVIA before ANSI and NFPA got involved. Nevertheless, the document is full of good advice. Now, here is where the debate starts: I personally recommend you acquire and follow all three of these codes. If you stick with the codes, you pretty much can't go wrong. On the other hand, deviating from the codes can have unintended consequences, which you, as the design engineer, will need to be prepared for. Others here will have a different opinion on this. You can read up on some of the previous debate by entering some of the code names above into the search function of this board -- it comes up regularly through the years. HTH, -Sean http://OurOdyssey.US | ||
| Len Silva (Lsilva)
Registered Member Username: Lsilva Post Number: 90 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 151.213.166.33 Rating: N/A |
*** Sorry, replied to wrong post *** Len I'm not trying to discourage you from building your bus if that is your passion (and it takes passion above all else to see it through) but for that kind of money you can buy a really nice used professional conversion. $150-200K will buy a 91-96 Liberty, Marathon, Custom coach etc. Many of them are low miles and extremely well maintained. Look at http://heartlandbus.com/ and http://horizoncoach.com/ for starters. Len (Message edited by lsilva on February 24, 2007) | ||
| David Hartley (Drdave)
Registered Member Username: Drdave Post Number: 733 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 72.189.203.211 Rating: N/A |
Generally as long as you are not selling or converting for other people. You should use the codes as your basic guidlines mainly for the safety aspects. The areas you want to stay as close as possible on are the electrical and LP Gas systems. ( Electrical systems must meet grounding and distribution requirements ie; Wires and Breakers ) LP Gas systems require an LP Gas detector with automatic cutoff solenoid in the low pressure line. All of this is off the shelf. Most everything else is the same common sense stuff that you would normally have in a house. Smoke Detectors, Carbon Monoxide detectors, Fire Extinguishers and working emergency exits. The other areas are mostly covered under Motor Vehicle standards and requirements for lighting, brakes and general safety. Most Buses used for conversion already meet the standards and as long as you keep the already approved systems and don't mess with them you will be fine. Upgrades of lighting and exterior just are for looks and functionality. If you start cutting into the framework or do structural stuff then you may need an engineer to help you with safety factors. Better yet, Just buy one already done and you will not need to start from scratch, Then if you can handle the normal maintenance issues and costs then you may want to remodel or do one for yourself. But plan on many thousands of hours over possibly several years of work. This would include buying literally a whole metal and woodworking shop and learning how to do all of it. Remember, If you do your own, You will be dedicating a large portion of your life and money for quite a while and you will be discouraged in ways that you cannot now imagine. Most get through it but nobody is ever mentally or physically the same afterwards.... It becomes an affliction.. OCD is the norm for all bus nuts... | ||
| R.C.Bishop (Chuckllb)
Registered Member Username: Chuckllb Post Number: 83 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 4.240.213.48 Rating: N/A |
Sean...what's with the "Uh Boy, here we go again"....weren't we ALL "newbies" at one time or another? Discussions ( debates) are what this and other boards are all about. OR? Thank God when I started, I was told there is no dumb question. Many years later, I am still learning. Yep, from you too....  FWIW RCB | ||
| John MC9 (John_mc9)
Registered Member Username: John_mc9 Post Number: 224 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 66.217.106.210 Rating: N/A |
Re: "Sean...what's with the "Uh Boy, here we go again"....weren't we ALL "newbies" at one time or another?" No, actually, Sean said: "Uh boy... here we go again. (Your question is bound to generate a huge debate on this board.) " There's a ton of us here, that realize that as Bob said: "Generally as long as you are not selling or converting for other people. You should use the codes as your basic guidlines mainly for the safety aspects. " It makes perfectly logical and legal sense. Learn what "the code" is trying to teach you, and follow it closely... but adherence to it, is at your own discretion. | ||
| Sean Welsh (Sean)
Registered Member Username: Sean Post Number: 546 Registered: 1-2003 Posted From: 67.45.244.133 Rating: N/A |
RC, Sorry, I was not implying there was anything wrong with the question (and I hope Jim did not take it that way). The "oh boy" part was just my way of writing a "sigh," since out of the most innocent of questions have arisen some of the fiercest debates on the boards. So that part wasn't really written for Jim, it was written for the "old hands." Or perhaps it was my way of telling Jim to brace himself for a lively discussion, from which he will have to ferret the answer he seeks. I think I did try to address the original question in a direct and comprehensive manner. But, as my wife always says, my answer was very "Sean" -- I suspect not everyone agrees with it (at least based on previous threads here). Apologies to all if it came across differently. -Sean | ||
| Jim Schrecengost (Schrec)
Registered Member Username: Schrec Post Number: 11 Registered: 2-2007 Posted From: 67.165.33.150 Rating: N/A |
Sean, no offense taken and believe me I'll be asking many many more (stupid) questions. I am about to become the "father" of a 4106 and need all the advice from the "old hands" that I can get. So keep coming with the advice and put all the "sighs" you can becasue the way I see it, You all have already made some of the mistakes that I don't want to do. No better way to learn than from all of you!! Thanks to everyone Jim | ||
| George M. Todd (George_mc6)
Registered Member Username: George_mc6 Post Number: 101 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 207.231.81.154 Rating: N/A |
Sean (and Jim) I don't think you owe any apologies, especially for being right! Ed said it all, do it by the Codes. You told Jim how to use the codes, and you were/are exactly right about the rest of your post. Yes, we know each other, but I'm still on your side! R. C. is correct also, there aren't any dumb questions. IMHO, the problem is dealing with some of the answers... Ed & Sean have it just right, the NEC Handbook is actually a 'TWO-HANDER,' but it does have understandable explanations to most of the requirements, unlike the Code book which has none. Now, how much of this journey is "building the bus the way you want it," how much is "getting there," and how much is "staying there?" The answers to these questions determine how you design/build your bus. Many of us will be glad to give advice in our specialties. Good luck, George | ||
| John MC9 (John_mc9)
Registered Member Username: John_mc9 Post Number: 226 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 66.217.106.212 Rating: N/A |
Ahh-humph - Aside from the fact that NEC Article 551, chapters 2,3,4,5,6,7 are all for either commercial RV manufacturers, or electricians working on RV parks..... I think it's worth noting, that low-voltage wiring is "governed" by the RVIA Standard for Low-Voltage Systems, rather than the NEC (I've noted that change many times previously here; It's in the archives.) It's better to help people understand the "why", rather than simply cite some "code" and insist it's followed. There are a lot of bad codes. (remember aluminum wiring for homes?) Knowing how and why there should be ground bonding, and where there should not be bonding, goes a lot further to help a person, than just telling them to "do it or else". It takes more than just reading a book of codes to do the job safely, a person should understand -why- they are telling you to do it that way. |
