| Author | Message | ||
| dutch (Dutch)
Registered Member Username: Dutch Post Number: 33 Registered: 2-2007 Posted From: 216.9.250.6 Rating: N/A |
He folks What can I do about this?? Is this fixable or do I need whole new parts????? | ||
| john w. roan (Chessie4905)
Registered Member Username: Chessie4905 Post Number: 497 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 71.58.117.21 Rating: N/A |
Elaborate...how much play in steering wheel-side to side in inches. What kind of school bus do you have? | ||
| dutch (Dutch)
Registered Member Username: Dutch Post Number: 34 Registered: 2-2007 Posted From: 66.68.98.151 Rating: N/A |
he john 7 to 8 inches i have a 4106gmc 1964 | ||
| george bruton (Tazman632000)
Registered Member Username: Tazman632000 Post Number: 20 Registered: 2-2007 Posted From: 65.184.183.4 Rating: N/A |
IS THAT THE BUS THAT CAN FROM MARTINSVILLE VA GREEN AND SILVER? | ||
| Bob greenwood (Bob_greenwood)
Registered Member Username: Bob_greenwood Post Number: 797 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 64.136.49.228 Rating: N/A |
there is aNUTt on it and if you look closely the bolt in the center has a slot in it....break the nut loose & hold the nut with a wrenck, get a big screwdriver & put it in the slot & tighten it ....back off 1/4 turn & hold slot in that position & tidhten NUT.... if this doesn't help you need a new steering box | ||
| Laryn Christley (Barn_owl)
Registered Member Username: Barn_owl Post Number: 16 Registered: 10-2006 Posted From: 153.2.246.33 Rating: N/A |
Dutch, What happened? Did it loosen up during your trip? When I test-drove the bus, one of the things that impressed me was how good and tight the steering was. I believe you have an hydraulic assist steering set up and I don’t know much about them. Oh the fun of owning a classic! Good Luck, Laryn | ||
| john w. roan (Chessie4905)
Registered Member Username: Chessie4905 Post Number: 498 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 71.58.117.21 Rating: N/A |
Wow... You need a place to safely get under it to examine all of the components for wear- steering shaft coming from steering wheel to steering box- it has an angle gear box that changes direction 90 degrees from steering wheel then the shaft with the small u-joints, then the drag link on steering box, tie rod ends, kingpins, and of course steering box. If it is manual' I would look to change over to power while you are at it. Have someone constantly move the wheel back and forth in the play area while you examine the above components with a drag lite looking for lost motion.At least once you get those parts right, you wont have to do it twice, if lubricated regularly. | ||
| dutch (Dutch)
Registered Member Username: Dutch Post Number: 35 Registered: 2-2007 Posted From: 66.68.98.151 Rating: N/A |
ok so if i mean if.... i need a new steeringbox do i need a genuine gm or does any bus steering box work??? any idea rough cost | ||
| Bob greenwood (Bob_greenwood)
Registered Member Username: Bob_greenwood Post Number: 799 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 64.136.49.228 Rating: N/A |
you can adapt a box from a big truck | ||
| Chuck Lott (Chuckmc8)
Registered Member Username: Chuckmc8 Post Number: 220 Registered: 5-2004 Posted From: 74.224.65.143 Rating: N/A |
Dutch, If Laryn drove it and it was fine before your trip, you probably have another steering component issue rather than the box. As others have said, block it safely and get under it and have an assistant turn the wheel back and fourth. You should be able to isolate the issue. Do you have a manual? If you need one, email me, I think I have one. Also, make sure that the power stering fluid is correctly filled. HTH | ||
| Gus Causbie (Gusc)
Registered Member Username: Gusc Post Number: 327 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 63.97.117.32 Rating: N/A |
Chuck is right, it isn't the box unless something broke or came loose and then it probably wouldn't even work. If it was tight recently the problem isn't a worn worm gear at the gear box where the adjustment is. Forget the steering box until all the rest of the steering system is checked out. I'm guessing that a bracket holding the vertical steering shaft just below the steering wheel or the angle gears at the bottom of the shaft has come loose or one of the many U-joints has broken. Or one of the steering rod ends has failed. That much steering wheel play is too much to be just adjustment. If it turns out to be the gearbox adjustment be sure to only turn the adjusting screw about 1/16 to 1/8th of a turn at a time to avoid binding the steering, too much tightening and something will break. I don't think low steering fluid will cause wheel play since the hyd system is just a boost cylinder and not part of the steering. It is essentially a manual steering system with a hydraulic boost attached, not a real power steering system. | ||
| larry currier (Larryc)
Registered Member Username: Larryc Post Number: 72 Registered: 2-2007 Posted From: 207.200.116.13 Rating: N/A |
Sounds like the steering arm is loose at the box. That much play anywhere else and the parts would have fallen off. | ||
| John MC9 (John_mc9)
Registered Member Username: John_mc9 Post Number: 269 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 66.217.108.44 Rating: N/A |
From the: FMCSA DOT website:  | ||
| john w. roan (Chessie4905)
Registered Member Username: Chessie4905 Post Number: 501 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 71.58.117.21 Rating: N/A |
Of course that is the maximum permissable and is surprizingly a lot to me. My 4104 with Sheppard power steering has slightly less that 1 inch.Everything has been repaired/replaced that had play. | ||
| R.C.Bishop (Chuckllb)
Registered Member Username: Chuckllb Post Number: 108 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 4.240.213.76 Rating: N/A |
My Sheppard has a bunch more than that John, and if I didn't have a bit of play, I probably couldn't enjoy the trip....  From what I can tell the information above is about right on the money. Of course, doesn't make it right....or wrong... for you ..... or for me. Thanx for the input JTNG RCB | ||
| Douglas Tappan (Dougthebonifiedbusnut)
Registered Member Username: Dougthebonifiedbusnut Post Number: 36 Registered: 10-2004 Posted From: 75.69.44.219 Rating: N/A |
As is usually the case,2d's aka Bob G. has thrown in his opinion about how to solve Dutches problem.Try doing something different and be a little spacific 2d's! It is NUTS to try to adapt any other system.The problems would start at the box and every component down stream of it.But once again I guess he knows more than I do. | ||
| R.C.Bishop (Chuckllb)
Registered Member Username: Chuckllb Post Number: 110 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 4.240.214.206 Rating: N/A |
Well, Doug, as we all know there is more than one way to skin a cat and CONSIDERING all alternatives isn't so bad, especially when one really doesn't know what one is doing. Full moon tonite? Good question, Dutch. I have them often, but usually don't want to get flamed so don't ask. Might try checking the archives for another set of answers. FWIW RCB | ||
| Laryn Christley (Barn_owl)
Registered Member Username: Barn_owl Post Number: 18 Registered: 10-2006 Posted From: 70.110.2.160 Rating: N/A |
John W. R. My bus has Sheppard power steering and the box has some play in it. How do I adjust it? Thanks | ||
| Len Silva (Lsilva)
Registered Member Username: Lsilva Post Number: 104 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 71.31.105.214 Rating: N/A |
After adjusting the steering box, make sure you check for binding from lock to lock. Len | ||
| john w. roan (Chessie4905)
Registered Member Username: Chessie4905 Post Number: 506 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 71.58.117.21 Rating: N/A |
According to Sheppard's web site, there is no external adjustment for play; the unit should be disassembled and repaired. I saw an ad for Tejas coach works. They have rebuilt boxes available for 4104 and 4106. 04's turn the opposite of the ones for 06's. search: sheppard power steering box service. They are located in Hanover, Penna. | ||
| Mel La Plante (Mel_4104)
Registered Member Username: Mel_4104 Post Number: 26 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 208.181.100.17 Rating: N/A |
Dutch you need to find out what is causint the play. run the bus up on some thing to be able to get under it safly. then have some one turn the wheel from side to side slowly up to the end of the play each way now open the front door under the drivers feet and open the cover that covers the steering drive shaft watch and see how much play there is when you hold the shaft by hand, can the steering wheel be moved with oout that shaft moving? watch and see if there is play in the u joint, how get under the front end and look at that steering shaft as the steering wheel is turned and watch the u joint at the axel steeering box, do yoou have play there and how much? then see if the play is in this box by watching to see how much the steering arm that comes out of the box to the drag link moves, then watch each of the tie-rod ends to see if they flop back and forth. now by having all this infromatioon you know wheere and at what point you have to fix. phone me if you need more info. mel 4104 | ||
| john w. roan (Chessie4905)
Registered Member Username: Chessie4905 Post Number: 507 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 71.58.117.21 Rating: N/A |
Once you can get safely under the bus, put two 24 inch or larger pipe wrenches on the steering shaft right before the steering box. Place them in opposite directions. Now hold the handles of the pipe wrenches, which will keep steering shaft from moving either direction. Now have someone move the steering wheel back and forth to the left and right limits of wheel play. Is the play the same as before? If it is, your play is in slop in the components from the wheel to the connection to the steering box. If there is none, ( not likely ) or a lot less, then the rest of the play is in the tie rod, kingpins, steering box, drag link. If you have manual steering, there is usually significant play in the drive shafts, and angle box. After power steering is installed, and these components are repaired/ rebuilt, they don't wear as much, due to less strain on them, because the box is making all the power instead of your arms. If you have power assist, you will always have play in the sensing unit on the cylinder, as it needs some play to work properly. Once people change from power assist to full power; Sheppard on GM's ,they would never change back to assist type. If there is significant play in the angle gear box, you need to remove it and disassemble to reshim to minimize play. I don't know if the gears in that box are still available, and BTW there are a fast and slow ratio gear sets. Fast ratio for power steering. If your gears are worn, and they are still available, replace them while they are still available.Make sure you lube these components frequently. Do you have a service manual yet? If not, I think there are vendors on this site that have them. Every coach owner should have a service manual and parts book for their coach, whether they do the work themselves or have someone else do it. | ||
| Gus Causbie (Gusc)
Registered Member Username: Gusc Post Number: 339 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 63.97.117.51 Rating: N/A |
John, I've been reading about the wonders of Sheppard PS on GM's ever since I logged onto this board. It may all be true but my 4104 power assist steering has less than an inch of wheel rim play since I made that simple adjustment at the steering box. My first long trip of 6000 mi it almost drove me crazy with about 4" of play on straight roads. I seriously doubt that my bus steering system has been touched since '54. I am even more convinced that they majority of GM steering complaints can be cured by this simple adjustment. About the only serious wear is on the center of the steering box worm gear and the adjustment on top of the box is designed to take care of this problem. This is all well explained in the Maint Manual. The simple reason for this center worm gear wear is that is where the steering is almost all the time! | ||
| Richard Bowyer (Drivingmisslazy)
Registered Member Username: Drivingmisslazy Post Number: 1874 Registered: 1-2001 Posted From: 75.108.81.156 Rating: N/A |
Gus, I suspect that goes back at least to the Model A ford times. I know that one time I made this adjustment on my Model A and I got it just a little bit too tight. It was fine when I first started on a trip, but after a couple of hours the steering got too tight. I suspect the box got warm and the components all expanded a very slight amount and caused to box to get very tight. I had to pull off the road and make a slight roadside adjustment and then all was well. Richard | ||
| David Dulmage (Daved)
Registered Member Username: Daved Post Number: 165 Registered: 12-2003 Posted From: 66.78.123.206 Rating: N/A |
This might be a good opportunity to have a licensed mechanic look at the the bus. There are a lot components than can contibute to play - the steering box, steering shaft u-joints, steering arm, drag link, tie rod ends, king pins, etc. Could be money well spent. FWIW DaveD | ||
| john w. roan (Chessie4905)
Registered Member Username: Chessie4905 Post Number: 510 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 71.58.117.21 Rating: N/A |
If it has power steering with the assist cylinder. I'd go for it then. If it gets too tight, you can then back it off- IF the play is in the steering box. Gus, glad to hear you have that little of play with your assist system. I think these kinds of problems are going to show up more and more as well maintained older models are getting harder to find. | ||
| Gus Causbie (Gusc)
Registered Member Username: Gusc Post Number: 341 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 63.97.117.13 Rating: N/A |
John, I'm convinced that I'll surely never have to adjust my steering again simply because Trailways drove it as much in a month as I probably will the rest of my life. So, when I fix/replace a part now I expect never to need to do it again. | ||
| john w. roan (Chessie4905)
Registered Member Username: Chessie4905 Post Number: 514 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 71.58.117.21 Rating: N/A |
Thats the way I feel...if it is worn- repair or replace now A: some parts are going to get more difficult to find. B:If done properly, should never need to be done again. C more enjoyable to drive when everything is tight again like new. Repairing our coaches isn't that hard to do with proper manuals and a little mechanical ability. Of course, the more you have the better. Most parts are larger, not more complex. |