| Author | Message | ||
| Cindy and John (Cindyandjohn)
Registered Member Username: Cindyandjohn Post Number: 11 Registered: 1-2007 Posted From: 71.59.88.83 Rating: N/A |
can anyone point me to a mechanic in this area (Atlantic City NJ) who is willing to do onsite work ASAP... i am have major overheating issues.... had to be towed into a campground (112 miles of towing - thank goodness for AAA RV Plus - the bill was only $210.00) i am pretty much stuck and need to be out of here tomorrow (Tuesday June 12th) i called the local MCI Service Central... they can't help since i am not an MCI - i would think a Detroit is a Detroit... Anyhow some over view - i drove about 60 miles no problems... a little hot 160 - 170... then right up to 200.... so i stopped and let it cool till about 160... drove about 15 miles... overheat again... drove 5 miles... drove a couple... then it was overheating just idling... so i called for a tow.... 5 hours later he showed up - needless to say i have been awake over 30 hours... if anyone can help i would appreciate it. John (Message edited by cindyandjohn on June 11, 2007) | ||
| Cindy and John (Cindyandjohn)
Registered Member Username: Cindyandjohn Post Number: 12 Registered: 1-2007 Posted From: 71.59.88.83 Rating: N/A |
i also called Johnson and Towers and they said the only way they can do it is if i bring it in... and that was no promise on fixing it - just to look at it.... any truck parts places close by? i am thinking it is a water pump of thermostat? fan seems to be running fine... coolant level - well i added several gallons during the ordeal... no major leaks... radiator leaks a little... no hoses or anything like that... Thoughs are welcomed and appreciated... | ||
| John MC9 (John_mc9)
Registered Member Username: John_mc9 Post Number: 369 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 66.217.105.166 Rating: N/A |
I would: 1. Check the fan belt to insure it's: A. there. B. tightening up with the air pressure. 2. Make sure the coolent level is sufficient. 3. Make sure the radiator air flappers are wide open. Atlantic City Truck Garages Or: Bus Garages Big Tree Garage 1 Washington Avenue Nutley, NJ 07110 Market Street Garage 16 Market Street Paterson, NJ 07510 Egg Harbor Township Garage 1431 Doughty Road Egg Harbor, NJ 08234 Meadowlands Maintenance Facility 2600 Penhorn Avenue North Bergen, NJ 07047 Fairview Garage 419 Anderson Avenue Fairview, NJ 07022 Newton Avenue Garage 350 Newton Avenue Camden, NJ 08103 Greenville Garage 53 Old Bergen Road Jersey City, NJ 07305 Oradell Garage 455 New Milford Avenue Oradell, NJ 07647 Hamilton Township Garage 600 Sloan Avenue Hamilton, NJ 08619 Orange Garage 420 Thomas Blvd. Orange, NJ 07051 Hilton Garage 1450 Springfield Avenue Maplewood, NJ 07040 Washington Township Garage 6000 Route 42 Washington Township, NJ 08080 Ironbound Garage 677 Wilson Avenue Newark, NJ 07105 Wayne Garage 55 West Belt Parkway Wayne, NJ 07470 Stay cool !! | ||
| Henry 96A3 (Hank)
Registered Member Username: Hank Post Number: 94 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 69.129.126.133 Rating: N/A |
160-170 is not hot for a DD 2 stroke. 180 is typical. Hopefully it's just the thermostats. You are about 50 miles from US Coach in Berlin, NJ. 856-767-4848 That would be the ticket! Best of luck! Hank | ||
| John MC9 (John_mc9)
Registered Member Username: John_mc9 Post Number: 370 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 66.217.105.166 Rating: N/A |
Most people go to Atlantic City in a car, and come home in a bus! Ironic, ehh? HAR.... Keep your sense of humor. It's an Eagle and will survive just dandy! | ||
| Cindy and John (Cindyandjohn)
Registered Member Username: Cindyandjohn Post Number: 13 Registered: 1-2007 Posted From: 71.59.88.83 Rating: N/A |
Thank You John MC9.... All belts are great - just had radiator drained and new coolant put in on 6/6/2007.... its not new anymore... checked levels at each stop after cooling down... added lots of coolant and had to resort to bottle water in when i couldn't get to a station. Radiator air flappers? not sure what they are - or i dont have any? anyhow... thanks i will call some of those guys... | ||
| Cindy and John (Cindyandjohn)
Registered Member Username: Cindyandjohn Post Number: 14 Registered: 1-2007 Posted From: 71.59.88.83 Rating: N/A |
Thanks Hank... i am happy 180 is ok... i was worried about killing it... i did go into nuclear melt down a couple times - i hate that thermal shutdown feature... | ||
| Cindy and John (Cindyandjohn)
Registered Member Username: Cindyandjohn Post Number: 15 Registered: 1-2007 Posted From: 71.59.88.83 Rating: N/A |
John MC9 I am upbeat about it... if it was going to happen, this is the better trip for it to happen on... i need to leave on Snday for Florida.... not sure if that schedule will be kept... i am crossing my fingers... | ||
| Henry 96A3 (Hank)
Registered Member Username: Hank Post Number: 95 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 69.129.126.133 Rating: N/A |
Cindy and John, If you don't already know, US Coach is sort of the holy grail of the bus conversion community-very helpful, friendly and knowledgeable. I would feel "lucky" to break down that close to them. Hopefully they can help you out because they know buses! | ||
| Cindy and John (Cindyandjohn)
Registered Member Username: Cindyandjohn Post Number: 16 Registered: 1-2007 Posted From: 71.59.88.83 Rating: N/A |
do you guys think it could ust be thermostats... the one guy at Johnson and Towers said that the water pump is gear driven and not likely to die? any thoughts... I will check back later... I need to go install a drive shaft - towing company removes them but won't reinstall for liability reasons... go figure... they can tow a 37000 pound bus - but wont reinstall a shaft they removed... anyhow, time to get dirty and make calls. Thank You All for your assistance... Hope to meet you some day at a rallie or somewhere fun where we can pop a few beers and reflect... | ||
| Luvrbus (Luvrbus)
Registered Member Username: Luvrbus Post Number: 42 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 74.33.37.119 Rating: N/A |
If your 15 has the hydraulic fan drive check the fluid level or if you have the belt driven check and make sure that the fan clutch is engaged it works by air | ||
| norcal kyle (Kylexisxrad)
Registered Member Username: Kylexisxrad Post Number: 151 Registered: 12-2005 Posted From: 24.10.92.129 Rating: N/A |
have fun with the driveshaft. ha. i had to do that in my Eagle back in dec. for the exact same reason. they take it out, but wont put it back. luckily, its pretty easy to put back. if youre a skinny guy, the best way to get to it is to slide in between the bogie and drive wheels. theres a little "service area" almost where you can sit upright and bolt it back in. kyle in norcal 1980 Eagle 10 #30223 | ||
| J.C.B. (Eagle)
Registered Member Username: Eagle Post Number: 115 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 209.183.34.44 Rating: N/A |
The temp can go as high as 210* before you have to worry. 180* to 190* is the normal temp for the DD Get to U.S. Coach if possibly Luke will take good care of you. | ||
| Douglas Wotring (Tekebird)
Registered Member Username: Tekebird Post Number: 203 Registered: 10-2004 Posted From: 71.59.75.212 Rating: N/A |
150-160 is cold for a DD..... what kind of coolant did you put in it? Mixing coolant types can call all sorts of havoc | ||
| niles steckbauer (Niles500)
Registered Member Username: Niles500 Post Number: 740 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 24.129.157.205 Rating: N/A |
C & J - first thing to do is call US Coach - find out if they can send someone - if not give them your exact location and they will refer you to someone closer - they may be able to help you trouble shoot it over the phone - HTH US Coach # 1-888-262-2434. | ||
| Charles Seaton (Charles_seaton)
Registered Member Username: Charles_seaton Post Number: 7 Registered: 12-2006 Posted From: 170.28.136.41 Rating: N/A |
Definitely U.S. Coach, most of the other garages referenced belong to NJ Transit. | ||
| Jack Campbell (Blue_goose)
Registered Member Username: Blue_goose Post Number: 5 Registered: 5-2007 Posted From: 71.101.55.168 Rating: N/A |
If this happened for the first time it proberly is the thermostat. They are easy to get to in the eagle and you can run without them. There are two of them. If the water pump goes bad it normaly is a leaking problem. You would see water running out of the hole on the back side. If the thermostats are bad it will heat at most all speeds. If you have 2 heat gages like my eagle dose one get hotter than the other? | ||
| ChuckMC9 (Chucks)
Registered Member Username: Chucks Post Number: 1113 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.240.174.115 Rating: N/A |
Doesn't it seem highly concidental that "just had radiator drained and new coolant put in on 6/6/2007" ??? | ||
| Gary Pasternak (Cessna5354)
Registered Member Username: Cessna5354 Post Number: 28 Registered: 2-2007 Posted From: 205.188.116.13 Rating: N/A |
Jack, If you are at Johnson & Towers in Pleasantville, You are in great hands. They have a long and substancial background in Diesels, 40+ years. You are about 55 miles from Luke's. Email me if I can assist as I live 10 miles south of Pleasantville, but work near Lukes shop. Take care and call If I can assist. 609 703-8989. Gary Pasternak | ||
| Pete/RTS Daytona (Pete_rtsdaytona)
Registered Member Username: Pete_rtsdaytona Post Number: 351 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 72.40.3.254 Rating: N/A |
".....just had radiator drained and new coolant put in on 6/6/2007..." Is it possible you've developed an --AIR POCKET -- Is there anyway you can force fill from a bottom hose with an adapter or something ?? (Message edited by pete RTS/Daytona on June 11, 2007) | ||
| larry currier (Larryc)
Registered Member Username: Larryc Post Number: 124 Registered: 2-2007 Posted From: 65.74.1.88 Rating: N/A |
My 89 eagle lost a waterpump. Thats my guess on yours to. Check the water pump seals for leakage. | ||
| Nick Badame Refrigeration Co. (Dnick85)
Registered Member Username: Dnick85 Post Number: 119 Registered: 2-2006 Posted From: 75.198.216.83 Rating: N/A |
Cindy & John, My shop is 20 mi south of you. If we can assist you in any way let us know.. We have service trucks, tools, and manpower.... If you know what the fix is, then maybe we can help you resolve it.. Nick Badame 609-827-7331 cell | ||
| John MC9 (John_mc9)
Registered Member Username: John_mc9 Post Number: 371 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 66.217.105.86 Rating: N/A |
Hmmm..... With 40' of coolant line running to the front, and another 40' back, and all the heaters, etc., front and rear.... I wonder if they filled your system, or just the engine and radiators... Start the engine.... coolant's everyplace but where it's needed.. Try turning off the valves (and return valve) for the front... and refill the system?? | ||
| Gus Causbie (Gusc)
Registered Member Username: Gusc Post Number: 372 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 63.97.117.39 Rating: N/A |
I agree with Chuck and Pete, the cooling system wasn't bled when it was filled!! | ||
| George M. Todd (George_mc6)
Registered Member Username: George_mc6 Post Number: 186 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 207.231.80.150 Rating: N/A |
Can I disagree? He does say he drove 60 miles OK before the trouble started, and has added gallons since... That much coolant leaking would have shown up somewhere by now, either front or back. 40' of supply and return heater and defroster line is something to consider, but my money is on a head gasket or a cracked head. George | ||
| Cindy and John (Cindyandjohn)
Registered Member Username: Cindyandjohn Post Number: 17 Registered: 1-2007 Posted From: 71.59.88.83 Rating: N/A |
rive shaft was an easy install... yep - i am a skinny guy - that helped alot under there. I have to tools on hand to do the job but am not sure of the issue... Luke has been a great help and gave me the idea of bleeding air bubbles right away... i tried that yesterday evening... i have to run it a bit more and try moving it around or driving it to see if it will work. I am hoping that it isnt a head or head gasket... i dont see coolant everywhere... i can only assume it was boiling out while driving... i dont see coolant behind or around the water pump so i guess my issue isnt a pump - sound more like those thermostats... i am trying to track them down around here to no avail... i will be calling Luke in a while if it still overheats today. Thankfully i am in a camp ground that is understanding (tow truck driver put on about three sites... ) i am moving it today to test but also to get it where it belongs... i will keep you posted. Thanks for all the Help!!! Also - i know i have a leak in the front blower and have had the return line valves off for a while... all the cooant is in the back for now... and on I-80 somewhere (HaHa)!!!! | ||
| Cindy and John (Cindyandjohn)
Registered Member Username: Cindyandjohn Post Number: 18 Registered: 1-2007 Posted From: 71.59.88.83 Rating: N/A |
Jack Campbell - The thermostats? how can i remove them and run without them? are they inserts like a car? i am looking at them and they are two huse blocks on each sided of the heads... i can only assume that they are the thermostats? huse water lines running to them... Is there an insert inside those blocks? i hope so... Doug Wotring - I hope it doesnt make to much havoc mixing coolants... i added whatever i could add - but premixes... let me know your thoughts... I have to get to work on this today ad get myself out of here... Thank you.... | ||
| larry currier (Larryc)
Registered Member Username: Larryc Post Number: 127 Registered: 2-2007 Posted From: 64.65.155.234 Rating: N/A |
John, when my water pump quit the only sign I had was a heat problem. It would start boiling the water out the overflow as soon as it ran a short distance and the DDEC would shut me down at that time. I solved the problem with my hand held infared temperature gun. You can take temps at the rad, if its cool there is no circulation. The water rails will be hot etc. Check the water pump for temp if its cold and the rads cold, you better put a pump on it. | ||
| Douglas Wotring (Tekebird)
Registered Member Username: Tekebird Post Number: 204 Registered: 10-2004 Posted From: 71.59.75.212 Rating: N/A |
JOhn, depending on what was in there in the first place. is the question? Generally green and red and orange don't mix well forget what the base is on these, but when mixed they make a lovely thick snot which clogs radiators and heater cores. Best bet in a pinch is to use Distilled water if you don't know what you have. I would suggest when you get somewhere where you can do it legally and safely....drain the coolant.......flush it several times with a warmup run in between each flush......then refil with what you want. I suggest any of the Diesel Manufacturer rated stuff as it does not eat seals and is less likey to cavitate. ????????????? when you changed the coolant did you bleed it...should have three places to bleed not bleeding can cause an air pocket= no flow | ||
| Jack Campbell (Blue_goose)
Registered Member Username: Blue_goose Post Number: 9 Registered: 5-2007 Posted From: 71.101.55.168 Rating: N/A |
I will get called down for this, but you can run with out coolant. I wouldn't for a long time, but you will do no harm to the engine. No way would I wast the coolant until the problem is found. There is a thermostate on each side of the engine just below where those large hoses hook to the engine. Won't hurt to run with out them, the engine will just take forever to heat up. You have had a lot of good advice, if all of this dosn't fix the problem you must have a cracked head putting heat into the water. Have you checked the oil to see if there is any water in it? | ||
| George M. Todd (George_mc6)
Registered Member Username: George_mc6 Post Number: 188 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 207.231.81.59 Rating: N/A |
I won't call Jack down, I'll take his side. One further thought, although It won't apply now that a whole lot of water has been added, is that antifreeze doesn't transfer heat anywhere near as well as water. Yes, antifreeze raises the boiling point, and lowers the freezing point of water, but it reduces its ability to absorb heat from the engine, and dissipate it in the radiator. In the summertime, in a bus with heating problems, I would only run about 25% antifreeze, which will raise the boiling point enough, and inhibit corrosion, without handicapping a marginal cooling system. Add more antifreeze for the winter when heating isn't a problem... Pull the stats, no problem until fall. I'm still betting on either a head gasket, or a head, and as Jack mentioned above, look at the oil!!! If it's kind of grey, and overfull, water is getting into the oil somewhere. The advice on feeling the radiator hoses is RIGHT ON, if the eng is hot, and the top hose isn't, no circulation. When you pull the stats, and the water level is right at the top of the heads, fire up and see if it throws the rest of the water out of the engine right now! What else is water cooled and eng. oil lubed? A hint, check your first air reservoir drain. HTH, George | ||
| Gus Causbie (Gusc)
Registered Member Username: Gusc Post Number: 374 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 63.97.117.26 Rating: N/A |
Running without thermostats will make the engine overheat even more. It is an old wives tale that this will make an engine run cooler. Sounds crazy but true, without thermostats the coolant is not restricted enough. It flows too fast to remove the engine heat so the engine overheats. | ||
| Jack Campbell (Blue_goose)
Registered Member Username: Blue_goose Post Number: 10 Registered: 5-2007 Posted From: 71.101.55.168 Rating: N/A |
The only reason to remove the thermostats now is to make sure thay are working. And it is a old wives tale. If the thermostat is open it isn't slowing the flow of the water. The only reason for haveing thermostats is to get the engine up to temp quicker and to keep it there in cold weather. We need more info on how it is overheating. 200 will never harm your engine. I have run mine for days between 200 and 210 with no problem. Have you run the engine sence you were towed in, if so how long did it take to heat and how fast were you running. From your picture you have a Eagle and the eagle fills with water from the bottom of the system. They don't normaly have a problem with traped air. If it gets overheated setting still now you eather have a crecked head, bad head gasket or thermostat not opening. If I can be of any further help give me a call. Been driveing a Eagle for 20 years. 186,000 and still going. | ||
| George M. Todd (George_mc6)
Registered Member Username: George_mc6 Post Number: 190 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 207.231.81.59 Rating: N/A |
Jack, I'm on your side again! Maybe an explanation is in order. The faster water moves thru a heat source, the lower the temperature rise. Likewise, the faster water moves thru a radiator, the less the temperature drop. BUT, the faster the water moves, THE MORE THE TOTAL HEAT TRANSFER INCREASES! That is why large piping, and long radius elbows, etc are recommended on hydronic heating systems. | ||
| Skip N (Skip)
Registered Member Username: Skip Post Number: 10 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 161.7.2.160 Rating: N/A |
Old ways  Checking to see if a thermostat is working: Put a pan of water on the stove bring it to a boil and see if the thermostat opens up. No doubts then....well maybe. FWIW Skip | ||
| Jack Campbell (Blue_goose)
Registered Member Username: Blue_goose Post Number: 11 Registered: 5-2007 Posted From: 71.101.55.168 Rating: N/A |
John I just looked at your profile and know what bus you have. I have run with that bus meny miles and never so it overheat. I live in the same town the bus came from and the old owner and I are good friends. If you would give John or Winn a call I am sure they could help. Or give me a call my number is in the profile. | ||
| Cindy and John (Cindyandjohn)
Registered Member Username: Cindyandjohn Post Number: 19 Registered: 1-2007 Posted From: 70.15.55.179 Rating: N/A |
Hey Guys... thanks for all the help!!! I am grateful for all you have done and all you helped with in your postings... Here is the scoop!!!!! I am home at last... a day late and a few dollars short! Da'Bus on the other hand - is in really good hands... 1 - I did do a lot of diagnostics - and also called Luke - he helped me with the air bleeding bit... That wasnt the problem. 2 - i decided to go with my first feeling of it being a water pump - Johnson and Towers had one in stock at a fair price - so long as i took my old one in to them... i removed the old one and not surpisingly - i could spin the gear but the impeller wasnt spinning - so a bad water pump was it!!! 3 - i changed the water pump and of course before taking the old one out had to drain a whole lot of anti-freeze all sorts of colors - into as many gallon jugs as i could find... 4 - installed the new pump - bleed the air out of the system (only filled it with water this time- until i knew the problems were solved) - after this Da'Bus idled at about 130 degrees for an hour - PROBLEM SOLVED!!! NOT!!!! 5 - Left Atlantic City ran about 30 miles and guess what - more overheating.... Searched a whole lot under the hood and what to my surprise - a leaking radiator in the back behind the shrouds, behind the fan - behind everything that could block my view... so filled with more water and limped my way to the Holy Place!!!! US Coach - a trip to meet Luke! they are taking excellent care of my baby and will have it purring like a kitten - well maybe roaring like a lion!!! a new radiator is set and some other PM work - new thermostats - just in case... and i think my trip to Florida next week will be on schedule... Thank You, Thank You, Thank You.... i can't say how much i appreciate all the input. ---- Jack Campbell - yes this is Winn's bus.... i know you are correct - when i have run the bus in the past - it never overheated... i usually do not like to pester someone after a sale. i know those guys would help me lots and in a pinch would call in a heart beat but knowing how far away from them i was - i needed to find someone really close to help. Luke was / is the answer. I was very impressed with those guys at US Coach and will always recommend them to others... | ||
| H3-40 (Ace)
Registered Member Username: Ace Post Number: 554 Registered: 10-2004 Posted From: 70.221.10.87 Rating: N/A |
Glad you got going or at least will be going! Off Topic... Jack Campbell... do you live in Mt Olive Shores? Are you still a Zip dealer? I asked you about one I think, but lost the contact info when I was in Arcadia. If your the same guy, I'm the one that almost took yours off and bought it but luck was on my side. You said no harm done! Ace | ||
| Jack Campbell (Blue_goose)
Registered Member Username: Blue_goose Post Number: 12 Registered: 5-2007 Posted From: 71.101.55.168 Rating: N/A |
Yes Ace I know who you are and I am still a Zip dealer. Leaveing for PA tomorrow but will be back the first of the week. My Phone number is in the profile. John glad you got it going. I have been down the same path. No Fun. | ||
| Cindy and John (Cindyandjohn)
Registered Member Username: Cindyandjohn Post Number: 20 Registered: 1-2007 Posted From: 70.15.55.179 Rating: N/A |
Just for Laughs.... I uploaded a web page of photos for your entertainment!!! http://www.cindyandjohn.us/Bus/atlantic%20city/bus-at-ac.htm if you can't click it - copy and past this address into your browser's address block... | ||
| marvin pack (Gomer)
Registered Member Username: Gomer Post Number: 34 Registered: 3-2007 Posted From: 76.4.142.242 Rating: N/A |
hey john. If you make it to fl like you plan and need any help with anything give me a call I am in Ocala Fl about an hour west of Daytona or give Pete/RTS a call In daytona he is right off I=95 and I am wst of I-75 |