| Author | Message | ||
| Bobh (Bobh)
Registered Member Username: Bobh Post Number: 16 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 204.116.186.20 Rating: N/A |
I've looked thru the archives about replacing the rubber compartment hinges on an eagle. Do you have to remove the channel from the bus ? Is it possible to slide the new hinge material in the channel while it is mounted on the bus then slide the door on to the rubber? | ||
| jim morrison (Jim_morrison)
Registered Member Username: Jim_morrison Post Number: 92 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 74.115.122.168 Rating: N/A |
what i did was insert the hindge then attached the door to it , seemed to work fine pluss i put dish soap on before installing | ||
| Gary LaBombard (Garylee)
Registered Member Username: Garylee Post Number: 132 Registered: 3-2004 Posted From: 205.188.116.13 Rating: |
Bob, If you get two helpers for only a few minutes here is what you can do, I did it all ALONE and know the short cut I think. I am assuming you have the door off, if not you have to disconnect the shocks on both ends of the door. You have to open the door to do this and again try to have someone there to assist in holding the door or prop it up carefully so it will not come down on you. NOTE, YOU CAN GET REALLY, REALLY HURT IF YOU CHEAT HERE. To disconnect the shocks have the door opened nearly at the maximum to release the shock pressure and make removal of the shock possible. Do not lose the tiny little spacers inside the middle of the shock arm that connects to the door when you disconnect. Note if there is bolts at the connection of the shock or how it is mounted. If it is jerry rigged as usual, measure this opening in your door bracket arm and get two grade #8 bolts to replace in here when you go to assemble the door. Be sure they are long enough to go through the entire assembly when needed. Put wooden blocks etc. at the bottom of the door when it is just barely open to help support the door when you cut out the rubber of the door with a sheet rock knife. Hold the door against the side of bus and carefully cut the rubber horizontally of coarse. cut in the middle of the hinge, this is not real thick and then your door will be loose. Be sure to be wearing leather welding gloves if you have any to handle bus baggage door and be careful not to get fingers pinched at the folding section of the lower part of the door. Move the door out of harms way and look at the assembly of the hinge. Slide the remaining section of the old hinge out from one end of door to the other then plan on using a wire brush and any tool you can think of to make a small piece of new rubber hinge slide through this opening of the door without even one hang up of any kind. Use the rubber at this time without any lubrication, if it slides through real easy with it dry you will have no problem with it being lubricated up. Now inside of your baggage compt, look up at the rubber hinge left in it, you should see two small screws at each end of the upper hinge bracket that are small but screwed into the bracket. This is to anchor the hinge while you assemble etc. and the hinge will not ball up or slide on you. Remove these screws, they will probably be rusty, what a surprise here!! Drill them out if you have to but only go deep enough to get to the outside of the rubber hinge and do not drill through the bracket or you will get pissed at me as you will drill a hole through the side or your bracket and it will be visible. After removal of a total of 4 rubber holding screws, look at your upper hinge bracket bolted to the bus from underneath. There is a groove in the middle of this bracket. This is intended to put your new hinge in it the way I will tell you. Cut out the old hinge at this point of the center of the hinge bracket slot. Be careful with the knife, you'll be in a hurry no doubt, don't slip and cut your face or fingers. After cutting out this small section of old rubber hinge, just slide each section left in the bracket to this slotted area and pull out the old hinge at the middle of the hinge bracket slot. After removal of the old hinge, again use a wire brush, sanding paper folded up or what ever you can to be able to slide a scrap piece of non-lubed new gasket material from the center of the hinge bracket to the outside edge of the entire bracket. If your new rubber hinge does not get hung up at all now you have done a good job at cleaning. This is the most important part to not having a problem in reassembly. Don't cheat at the cleaning. Take your time. Take your new rubber hinge,be sure the end to the left is cut nice and square, have someone hold it to the left and then you roll it out next to the hinge bracket and mark where to cut it to length. Do not cut it short, but not too long either. Now you take and start inserting your new hinge material at the very center of the hinge bracket bolted to your bus. This slot you have been working around is cut just big enough to do as I tell you to on your assembly. Slide your hinge, DRY, to the left, if it is clean you should have no problem with it being dry. Now when you hinge is to the left, take the opposit end which is the right side and start to slide it into this same slot you used for the left side assembly, this slot is just barely big enough but it is I assure you. Take your time and slide the right side into the slot toward the right side. It looks like the middle will not fit in there but it will, just keep tugging on the right side to get the right side in nice and square with no rinkles in the rubber. when this is done do this. Now take the time to put two new short sheet metal screws about 3/8"long sheet metal screws in those holes in the hinge bracket you removed earlier. If the bolt sticks out any length at all it will break off when the door is closed. Just use bolts long enough to lock the rubber hinge from moving when you assemble the door. Once the 4 rubber hinge locking screws are assembled you are ready for the assembly of your door, now get your neighbors and get a beer for each to have, AFTER YOU ASSEMBLE THE DOOR!!! Use a small 1/2" or so paint brush and use the brush to brush in liquid hand soap in the slot of your door and on the inside and outside of the visible rubber hinge on your bus. Be sure everyone is there to help you before doing this to keep it fresh and lubricated and ready to go. The reason for the hand soap, is it breaks down and does not harm the rubber in any way, you can rinse it off after assembly is done but it works great and don't skimp on the amount of soap you use. Dish soap might work but it is thin and may not stay as good as a lubricant as the hand soap. Have the two neighbors pick up the door, the bottom has to folt a little as you have to tip the upper part in the vertical position for the arms that the shocks assemble to will not hit the side of your bus when reassembled. BE WEARING GLOVES FOR ASSEMBLY TO PROTECT FROM SHAP EDGES OF DOOR AND GETTING SEVERLY PINCHED!!!!! Let your neighbors hold the door in the position needed for you to start the new rubber hinge into the slot of the door and it does not matter if you assemble from the left or the right the procedure is the same. You start the hinge into the slot, you will have the brackets on the door now for the hinge as a hinderance but if I can do it alone with the door on my back you can do it with help. Have the guy on the end of the door opposite you push as he supports the door also and you can pull on the door as it starts on the hinge. Once the hinge is in the slot about 1 inch, just push on one end of the door and pull on the other and the door will slide right on, IF THE SLOT IS CLEAN AND LUBRICATED!! Watch the rubber hinge does not stretch and cause a lump in the rubber as you assemble the door. If it does, pull the door partially back off and relube where you stopped and try again. Do not get any bulges in the rubber from stretching, it will not go away and it will look like hell. The guy in the middle will be keeping the bottom section of the door from hitting you as he also supports the door but work together, and carefully. Once the door is on, you have to reassemble the two shocks on the end. Use new bolts if the originals looked weak, rusty etc. Open the door to a maximum, supported by your helpers, reassemble your shocks with all the hardware needed to be complete. You can close and open door to test and admire your job. AND NO INJURIES TO ANYONE!! Now go get them well deserved beers and enjoy. One last note: If you had to replace one of your hinges because of age, be leary, you better consider replacing all of them for the cost. Don't cheat on this as this hinge material is not real expensive. Hope this long explanation helps you out and anyone else with rubber hinges on an Eagle in particular. Good luck, be careful. Gary | ||
| H3-40 (Ace)
Registered Member Username: Ace Post Number: 553 Registered: 10-2004 Posted From: 70.220.130.231 Rating: N/A |
Dang Mr. LaBombard I must say, after reading this very lengthy article, I am very impressed! It covers almost every detail including much needed safety issues! Well explained and if anyone can't understand this than they need to just have someone else do it for them! Good job! Ace | ||
| norcal kyle (Kylexisxrad)
Registered Member Username: Kylexisxrad Post Number: 152 Registered: 12-2005 Posted From: 216.220.216.171 Rating: N/A |
Gary, you are as valuable an asset to this board as the search function. no joke. kyle in norcal 1980 Eagle 10 #30223 | ||
| Paul Lawry (Dreamscape)
Registered Member Username: Dreamscape Post Number: 12 Registered: 5-2007 Posted From: 12.108.13.70 Rating: N/A |
I was going to post how I did mine, don't have to now. A little differant on my 01 though, no shocks on ours. I did one door by myself in three hours. Thanks Gary for a very complete description. | ||
| Bobh (Bobh)
Registered Member Username: Bobh Post Number: 17 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 204.116.186.20 Rating: N/A |
Thanks Gary. That's how I did the first one. It didn't go to well but I have 5 more to practice on. | ||
| Gary LaBombard (Garylee)
Registered Member Username: Garylee Post Number: 133 Registered: 3-2004 Posted From: 152.163.100.13 Rating: N/A |
Bob, What problems did you have that I did not cover? If this is information that everyone needs please post it here, I will add it to the article I wrote and then it will be archived when needed. Take your time, preparation is the key of the slots and use of Hand soap. Wear gloves, be careful and methodical and No beer for helpers until job completed. If I can be of any more help please just ask. Good Luck Gary | ||
| John MC9 (John_mc9)
Registered Member Username: John_mc9 Post Number: 374 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 66.217.107.195 Rating: N/A |
HUH? "No beer for helpers until job completed. " Well of all the *&^%#@$%#@. I guess that lets me out, I can't work without high-test. Great poat Gary. The 4104 I've been considering needs new hinges. I'm wagering that they're all installed the same...(?) | ||
| john w. roan (Chessie4905)
Registered Member Username: Chessie4905 Post Number: 589 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 71.58.117.21 Rating: N/A |
John, now I see why you prefer rubber flooring in your coach- easier to hose out. Alittle or a lot of beer always helps- more if things don't go right. | ||
| Bobh (Bobh)
Registered Member Username: Bobh Post Number: 18 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 204.116.186.20 Rating: N/A |
I don't think I had enough lube in it. The rubber kept bunching up. It was the first one first time. The rest will go a little better, I hope. The last one will probably slip right in as easy as can be. | ||
| Gary LaBombard (Garylee)
Registered Member Username: Garylee Post Number: 134 Registered: 3-2004 Posted From: 205.188.116.13 Rating: N/A |
Bob, If you did dry runs without lube with a new piece of rubber hinge material which is not stretched etc. and shrunk from age it will easily get caught on every little imperfection in the Hinge slots. This is good in a way, if this happens this is the area you need keep working on until the rubber just slips through from one end all the way to the other. Then on the assembly, do not cheat on the handsoap as I mentioned. Be sure to coat the hinge bracket on the door inside real good and gooey, and the hinge itself. Your right, you will be an expert by the 3rd one I assure you. The bunching up is of being dry I believe, I am hoping you had help which is much easier to work with the bunching up of the rubber if it happens. I am assuming you put the 2 hinge anchoring bolts on both ends through the rubber hinge on the overhead hinge bracket mounted on the bus to assist in keeping the rubber hinge in place. If that slot on the door has one little imperfection in it that can grap on the new rubber hinge even if it is lubed up the imperfection in the slot will cause the bunching up of the rubber hinge & also make your assembly more difficult. Try also making sure as you assemble the door on to elevate the door to releive the most pressure you can from bending the hinge. This is difficult in the way the bracket on the door is made but take the time as the observer as the other guys hold it for you and you let them know how bent the rubber hinge is they have to re-adjust their working angle of door. Oh, I guess everyone but me would want a beer during the assembly per the above post, this is only a safety issue with me so that the danger is eliminated so that no one chops off a finger etc. which can easily be done. Maybe one (12 oz.)beer won't hurt, celebrate after you day is done heavily with my blessing. Now you probably see why it cost so much to have a job like this done on our Coaches as the professional bus shops. But you can do it, once you get the nack of it you can assist other others in either physically doing it or as I have you assist them in documentation then you did good. One more good note, when fitting the new hinge for cutting, be sure it is not cut too short but just nice and snug. If too short even a little it will allow movement in stretching easier of the new rubber hinge. I think I just beat this poor horse to death but hope it all helps you complete the other 5 doors. Gary | ||
| Richard Bowyer (Drivingmisslazy)
Registered Member Username: Drivingmisslazy Post Number: 1921 Registered: 1-2001 Posted From: 75.108.76.30 Rating: N/A |
Gary, I read a post many moons ago where a nut used a 22 rifle cleaning rod/tool to clean out the hinge. Seems like if you cut the handle off and placed it in a variable speed drill motor it should do an excellent job of cleaning the slot out. Richard | ||
| marvin pack (Gomer)
Registered Member Username: Gomer Post Number: 35 Registered: 3-2007 Posted From: 76.4.142.242 Rating: N/A |
On my 4905 gm I took a piece of square key stock and welded a piece on the thing and made it about 2 inches long and inseerted it in the channel and when I hit something with it I taped it wiht a hammer and cleared the channel even broke screws were no match for it but took a little extra hitting it worked real good | ||
| Gary LaBombard (Garylee)
Registered Member Username: Garylee Post Number: 135 Registered: 3-2004 Posted From: 152.163.100.13 Rating: N/A |
All these extra suggestions should also be considered in cleaning your door & bus hinge bracket slot. I cannot stress the importance of taking the time to do this for a successful job that will be a snap in the future to do if needed or help someone else who needs to. If you notice everyone centers on that slot area of importance. As Marvin indicated, you may have to be sure there no broken bolts inside of the slot. remember, there is two of them on each end and no burrs from the bolts can exist, if there is you have to make a tool, file etc, to remove every last bit of evidence anything was in there. I even went so far as to use a flash light to observe the entire slot as it is made so that these things can hide in the slot. To get the minute grime off the slot I used a very small blade Sears screwdriver to loosen and scrape off any and all residue inside of the slot on the top,, back corners of it and the bottom. You will also "feel" every corner as you clean the slots and this also will indicate areas of extra consideration to be worked on. The hardest one to do is the overhead one in the bus but this is not the working slot you have to worry about when hanging the actual door. But it is equally important to have prepped right so the "NEW" piece of rubber hinge just slides through before fitting & assembly of the new actual hinge being anchored with the two screws on each end. One last (Very Important) area to contend with, is the very leading edge where you start to slide the rubber hinge into, this very leading edge has a tendency to roll up just enough to catch on the rubber hinge and what I did was take a very small metal square metal file, I ground it with my grinder to fit into the slot on the sides but have the ribs of the file still intact so that it would be useable to file down this rolled up edge of both ends of the door bracket. This will catch in a heart beat the new rubber as the rubber is nearly full thickness of the slot in the door. Using a blow gun as you work on this tedious job of cleaning this terrible slot is helpful in keeping it possible to know where you left on on your cleaning (Prepping) of this bracket. This post has been a lengthy bugger but infomative to help others needing to do this job with the help of all the others suggestions from other bus nuts, thanks for the input. Now here is the honest to God situation that happened to me the first time I realized I had to change my rubber hinges on my 1973 Eagle with probably the original hinges on them. NOTE WHAT I TELL YOU HAPPENED HERE. I was leaning inside of my middle bay from outside getting some tool or something inside. All the other bay doors were shut and locked from the outside. All of a sudden I felt this very sharp pain in the back of both of my leg calf's. It hurt so bad I cried. I could not move, I did not know what happened and then realized the door come down on me as I leaned in the bus!!! What are the chances of this happening at that momement, you cannot book the odds!! The pressure of the shocks pulls the door in like a gullotine and so fast you can't believe it, there is no warning, no sound of any kind only the sharp pressure of having your legs nearly chopped off or very badly bruised like mine were at that time. My wife was gone, no one around the neighborhood at the time, my pocket whistle did not do anything for me. I got panicked not knowing the extent of my injuries. Thank God I had on working full length pants which helped prevent more serious injuries to the back of both my legs. I lost track of time but realized I was in deep poop, all alone, AGAIN!. I got composed, I tried to push up on the door but man this baby come down and those shocks have a lot of pressure. Remember, the bottom part of the door swivels down and as the shocks yank the door down the angle of the bottom of the door comes at you with the edge straight into you!! Anyhow after some time I was able to get one leg inside of the bus, I still had one outside and pushed outward with the other bleeding leg just enough through the tears and pain to have both legs finally inside of the bus baggage bay. Now I am trapped inside, all the other doors shut down, all alone again. I laid there some time wondering what in the dickens do I do now and how bad am I hurt, it is pretty dark inside except for some light coming into the opening above the closed door about 10 inches I would say from the door collapsing from the "Rotted Rubber Hinge" letting go finally. To end this very lengthy post again I will tell you I was able to slide through that 10" opening above the closed door (temporary gullotine), I nearly had to crawl to my house and get cleaned up, my pants protected me from needing stitches but without them on I would of been cut right to the bone as my door edge was jagged, sharp and quite thin. I did not go near my bus, look at my bus or do anything for over two weeks on my bus as I was really hurting and walking was a chore. But I got better but now I always am more carefull around these bay doors. This is how I discovered how to disassemble my bay doors and how to put in new rubber hinges after some time and did it all alone and man you just try that one for size. I did all 6 doors and the rubbers had the same condition. Not any more thought, and now I am changing them again as I making new smooth finish doors and had to remove them all and refabricate new doors using some of the hardware from the old doors. (That is another long story) later on. While no one thinks this can happen like it did me, you gamble on it but here is what you need to do if your bus is old, and you never really looked at this dangerous area that could harm you, your family or friends going in an out of your bays for your fun toys. Nothing could end a great vacation more quickly than having a leg chopped off or just a repeat of my accident. AREA TO INSPECT FOR RUBBER BAY DOORS HINGES. (a) Closely look at each and every rubber hinge from one end to the other that is exposed to the outside. Use a flashlight if necessary to see any horizontal cracks in the rubber hinge, any deteriation from dry rot from the sun and rain etc. and from bending from opening and closing all the times you do. Think about it, this is a hinge for maybe a 140 lb. 5 ft. bulky long door. (b) Any sign of age, cracks expecially horizontally in the center means you are gambling. I do not know the life time of a rubber hinge but the sun and rain makes a difference and remember the hinge materials of many years ago may not have the same strength as that made today. (c) Replace your hinges if any question exist in your inspection of your rubber hinge. I got new hinge material from Jefferson Bus Co. In Oklahoma, the right stuff they recommend and you can sure see the difference in thickness of the materials of the new versus the old. Here is another suggestion I am doing on my new doors I am making that will hinged similar to the original ones. Now this is what I am doing and does not mean you have to. I am putting a small piece of chain on each end of the door on the inside that will be attached to the underside of the bus framing (Underneath cabin floor)to the actual inside of the door that will not be seen from outside but be there for safety incase of any failure of this rubber hinge materialagain. The chain will act as an emergency hinge incase the rubber hinge does let loose at any time and the door can only drop down the length of the chain I installed for added security. I will make the chain only long enough to allow the opening and closing of the door and not interfere. I will have to make mounting brackets for the chain for the underneath the floor and for the door but this is no biggie after all I have done so far. Again all these terrible accidents & things can be minimized with close inspections of your rigs especially those with age on them. You professonal musicians with rubber hinges, think of it, a door coming down on a stage hand while retrieving your performing instruments etc. Who would be responsible?? I pass on anything I feel would be beneficial to others and help prevent serious injuries like I sometimes get myself, at the expense of being thought of me as a (Butt Wipe) for letting this or anything happen I will continue to pass on good or bad experiences to make you think, I hope. If I prevent anyone from getting seriously injured at any time or getting a bad bus with my insistance of (Bus Inspections) before a purchase and after purchase for maintenance then I think I did a good job and am proud to have helped. Man, I bet your glad this one is over. Good luck, take care and hope you remember some of the preventions I mention here and again thanks to all who have contributed. Gary | ||
| R.C.Bishop (Chuckllb)
Registered Member Username: Chuckllb Post Number: 156 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 4.240.213.209 Rating: N/A |
Gary....loooong but good and very helpful post. Thanx.  RCB | ||
| H3-40 (Ace)
Registered Member Username: Ace Post Number: 562 Registered: 10-2004 Posted From: 70.221.185.70 Rating: N/A |
Yea that sounds scary alright! I thought a friend of mines story was bad when he was on top of the bus and nobody around when his ladder fell! This was in the winter up in IL. He finally saw his 80 yr old neighbor and started yelling and waving to him but the ole guy just started waving back and went inside! He said he stayed on top of his bus for quite some time until his neighbor decided to come back out and see why he was still up there! Yea those home alone stories are pretty bad and I have a couple of them myself but we won't go there! Glad you still have your legs in this case! Ace | ||
| Arthur J Griffith (Arthurseagle)
Registered Member Username: Arthurseagle Post Number: 32 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 72.236.102.239 Rating: N/A |
GARY: What a great post. Your post brought back a lot of memories for me when my wonderful wife amd myself installed all new rubbers on our Eagle. As you made serious reference to the cleaning of the track is the most important part of the job. The rubbers will NOT go in unless the track is squeeky clean. Please don't ask me how I know that. ARTHUR |
