| Author |
Message |
quantum merlin (Quantum500)
Registered Member
Username: Quantum500
Post Number: 5
Registered: 8-2007
Posted From: 71.216.90.94
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, September 01, 2007 - 8:39 pm: | |
Lately a lot of the horse power junkies with diesel pickups are using water/methanol injection to add horse power and lower the egt. I was wondering if anybody has attempted that on a detroit here. If your misting the radiator you have the basic system to feed the engine already. Seems like it would kill 2 birds with one stone, over heating and not enough power. My question is would you do it before or after the blower? |
Bob Wies (Ncbob)
Registered Member
Username: Ncbob
Post Number: 222
Registered: 2-2006
Posted From: 70.221.143.148
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, September 01, 2007 - 9:44 pm: | |
I can't see a way of adding water after the blower since it's bolted directly to the top of the block.
And I don't really wish to offend you...but do you really understand the theory of a Detroit 2 stroke engine?
You might wish to pose your question over on the DD board at Yahoo...You'll get some real quick answers over there from the DD experts.
Bob |
quantum merlin (Quantum500)
Registered Member
Username: Quantum500
Post Number: 7
Registered: 8-2007
Posted From: 71.33.238.169
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, September 02, 2007 - 2:16 am: | |
No offense taken.....do you understand the application of DD 2-stroke technology? The basics of injecting water into a diesel engine is the action of the heat generated by combustion creates steam combustion wich = energy coupled with evaporation action to cool the engine as well as give power. I know that the blower is bolted directly to the top of the block, but the actual intake manifold does have enough space to drill a hole...or even a couple of holes to falicitate water injection. I've read that if you can hold piston top temps of 2500f or more it actually breaks water into basic elements. Read oxygen and hydrogen. Not really applicable but interesting nontheless.
(Message edited by quantum500 on September 02, 2007) |
Dan West (Utahclaimjumper)
Registered Member
Username: Utahclaimjumper
Post Number: 62
Registered: 1-2005
Posted From: 208.66.38.60
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, September 02, 2007 - 9:52 am: | |
About the time you start blowing the tips off your injectors you will know why you DONT allow water in two strokes.>>>Dan |
Bob Wies (Ncbob)
Registered Member
Username: Ncbob
Post Number: 223
Registered: 2-2006
Posted From: 70.221.231.147
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, September 02, 2007 - 11:24 am: | |
DD had a program going and tried it with good results except for water
in the oil. They tried almost everything to keep the water out of the
oil without luck. If you use water properly after the engine has warmed
up, drive long enough distances and only use it at higher RPM the oil
stays dry. The problem is if DD put water injection on their engines and
sold them, a lot of people would end up ruining the engine because they
would not use it properly. Up to 6 parts water to 1 part diesel has been
found to work well. I plan on using water just for the cooling effect on
my next engine because I plan on running about 60 lbs boost with 155ish
sized injectors. I want to be able to put out that amount of power
continuously without heat problems. |
Bob Wies (Ncbob)
Registered Member
Username: Ncbob
Post Number: 224
Registered: 2-2006
Posted From: 70.221.231.147
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, September 02, 2007 - 11:25 am: | |
DD had a program going and tried it with good results except for water
in the oil. They tried almost everything to keep the water out of the
oil without luck. If you use water properly after the engine has warmed
up, drive long enough distances and only use it at higher RPM the oil stays dry. The problem is if DD put water injection on their engines and
sold them, a lot of people would end up ruining the engine because they
would not use it properly. Up to 6 parts water to 1 part diesel has been
found to work well. I plan on using water just for the cooling effect on
my next engine because I plan on running about 60 lbs boost with 155ish
sized injectors. I want to be able to put out that amount of power
continuously without heat problems.
Borrowed, without permission from the DD Group. |
David Evans (Dmd)
Registered Member
Username: Dmd
Post Number: 187
Registered: 10-2004
Posted From: 96.232.83.122
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, September 02, 2007 - 11:50 am: | |
Merlin's Quantum West Bob would be a cool think tank name. (I only attemted poor humor because John hadent yet) How do you access the yahoo board? David |
quantum merlin (Quantum500)
Registered Member
Username: Quantum500
Post Number: 8
Registered: 8-2007
Posted From: 70.57.21.17
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, September 02, 2007 - 1:09 pm: | |
"About the time you start blowing the tips off your injectors you will know why you DONT allow water in two strokes.">>>Dan
You wouldn't be injecting water with the diesel injectors. The set up is very similar to the misting of the radiator. Instead you would be misting into part of the intake manifold at pre detrimned rpm or throttle setting so you would be making enough heat to properly turn the water into steam. This would guarntee no water contamination in the oil, as described above. I would think that below the blower would be best. A couple of reasons I see this to be the best is the fact the compressing the air causes it to heat up as it moves from the top of the blower to the bottom. If the water were to be added before the blower it could cause condensation instead of evaporation and it would actually get flung into the engine as water droplets. It would work but not as effectivally as it could. If you can keep the water as small as possible it is much more effective. Many of you with the radiator misting set up have most of the system installed. So in effect you would be getting as much or more cooling capicity with the added effect of more HP! A win win in my book. So anyhow that is my thought process on the subject. I have searched the web for more info but haven't found anything yet. I also posted a question the DD yahoo board. I'll post anything I find out. |
Jack Campbell (Blue_goose)
Registered Member
Username: Blue_goose
Post Number: 35
Registered: 5-2007
Posted From: 71.101.55.168
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, September 02, 2007 - 1:46 pm: | |
How do you get to the DDyahoo board? |
Tom Caffrey (Pvcces)
Registered Member
Username: Pvcces
Post Number: 1123
Registered: 5-2001
Posted From: 65.74.67.130
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, September 02, 2007 - 10:04 pm: | |
Jack, here's the link:
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/DetroitDiesel/
For what it's worth.
Tom Caffrey PD4106-2576
Suncatcher
Ketchikan, Alaska |
doug yes (Dougg)
Registered Member
Username: Dougg
Post Number: 32
Registered: 1-2007
Posted From: 71.29.143.233
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, September 03, 2007 - 8:51 pm: | |
George Wiseman at :http://eagle-research.com/ sells a book on this very subject. |
quantum merlin (Quantum500)
Registered Member
Username: Quantum500
Post Number: 10
Registered: 8-2007
Posted From: 71.216.90.94
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, September 07, 2007 - 1:03 pm: | |
Talked to a local DD shop and he didn't have much to say about the matter other than its hard to do because the intake is a airbox. Bob do you happen to have a link or a copy of the article that your talking about that you could post? |