| Author | Message | ||
| Barry McCully (Turtle)
Registered Member Username: Turtle Post Number: 1 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 71.7.185.171 Rating: N/A |
I want to install a propane fridge in my MC-9 and can anyone help me out about what I need to vent this. Thanks Barry | ||
| Frank Allen (Frank66)
Registered Member Username: Frank66 Post Number: 58 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 207.200.116.13 Rating: N/A |
i installed mine away from the wall of the bus a bit i cut out a place for the side vent then went all the way to the roof and put a standars size vent in the roof, your instuctions should give you the sizes etc. hope this is some value to you Frank Allen | ||
| Pete/RTS Daytona (Pete_rtsdaytona)
Registered Member Username: Pete_rtsdaytona Post Number: 389 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 208.118.13.244 Rating: |
see--> http://www.fridge-and-solar.net/fridge_vent.htm has exactly what you need to know - great info | ||
| George M. Todd (George_mc6)
Registered Member Username: George_mc6 Post Number: 260 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 207.231.81.129 Rating: N/A |
Barry, Pete's link is the absolute answer! His comment of "has exactly what you need to know," means exactly what you need to DO! George | ||
| Jack Campbell (Blue_goose)
Registered Member Username: Blue_goose Post Number: 37 Registered: 5-2007 Posted From: 71.101.55.168 Rating: N/A |
I think he is talking about a gas firdg like you use in a house. They didn't have any vents when used in a house, but you had lots more space to get the fums and carbon out. Also lots more air to cool the unit. | ||
| Pete/RTS Daytona (Pete_rtsdaytona)
Registered Member Username: Pete_rtsdaytona Post Number: 390 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 208.118.13.244 Rating: N/A |
Jack Campbell see--> http://www.thenaturalhome.com/gasappliances.htm Read the sction --> GENERAL NOTES ON VENTING PROPANE REFRIGERATOR / FREEZERS cetainly Bus Conversion qualify a "small enclosed spaces" | ||
| Gus Causbie (Gusc)
Registered Member Username: Gusc Post Number: 481 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 63.97.117.40 Rating: N/A |
I went through this. The PO didn't vent the fridge?? I was too dumb about RVs to know the difference! Use the mfg installation directions as each one is different.It is very important that all the dimensions and angles be correct. If you can get the back right up against the wall it is easiest to make the vent. It is a pain to do but the results are worth it. LP makes a great operating refrig. | ||
| George M. Todd (George_mc6)
Registered Member Username: George_mc6 Post Number: 262 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 207.231.81.129 Rating: N/A |
Barry and Jack, As Pete says "Read the section on venting!" We don't know whether you are indeed talking about one of these Servels, or an RV type propane fridge. If you are talking about a Servel, also read the section which says they are NOT recommended for RV use, due to leveling concerns when parked. Their requirement for a carbon monoxide detector MUST be followed, if it is goint to be a Servel! I have a large problem with someone putting a gas flame in a VERY tight area, with only their (one) 3 square inch vent area requirement!!! People absorb carbon monoxide in preference to oxygen at a ratio of at least 20 to one. Normally, oxygen makes up about 20% of the air we breathe, with nitrogen making up something like 60 plus percent, then carbon dioxide, and all of the others. Carbon monoxide is measured in Parts Per Million, (percent is parts per hundred) and most detectors will alarm at a couple of hundred ppm, after an hour or so, and much sooner at higher levels. The point of this is that a concentration of 1% carbon monoxide is lethal! I may be off in the time/alarm level figures, but the point is to keep you alive! George | ||
| joe padberg (Joemc7ab)
Registered Member Username: Joemc7ab Post Number: 139 Registered: 6-2004 Posted From: 66.38.159.33 Rating: N/A |
I have a CO alarm that gives first stage alarm at 25ppm and second stage alarm at 50 ppm. Sitting a a stoplite, it will sometimes show 10 ppm from the vehicle in front of me. Joe. | ||
| John MC9 (John_mc9)
Registered Member Username: John_mc9 Post Number: 495 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 66.217.106.167 Rating: N/A |
Oh the horrors of propane usage in a bus conversion !!!!! Of course, we avid (old) RVers have been cooking on gas stoves and ovens -inside- trailers and motorhomes for quite a few decades..... without a problem... long before the invention of carbon monoxide detectors.... The typical RV oven/stove does not have outside venting, by the way. An exhaust fan is often used to remove heat and odor, but rarely used to make a pot of coffee... (I wonder how we can explain the lack of deaths?) It is a -good idea- to use carbon monoxide detectors, smoke/fire detectors, and propane detectors, but none of those will detect the lack of (or thinning of) our oxygen supply (a propane burner will use more oxygen that it can generate carbon monoxide). I wouldn't travel without the detectors, but propane shouldn't be feared any more than the use of electric... | ||
| Jack Conrad (Jackconrad)
Registered Member Username: Jackconrad Post Number: 619 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 76.1.180.218 Rating: N/A |
I agree propane should not be feared, but it should be respected. As you said, many of us cook with propane. When cooking we are awake and may have a window or vent open. If we should suddenly develop a headache or become nauseous, we can react. The problem with the CO that is generated from propane burning occurs at night when we are sleeping. I personally know of a bluegrass band that almost died (one suffered slight permanent brain damage from a faulty LP furnace exhaust tube leaked, allowing CO into the bus). Had one of them not gotten up to go to the bathroom and fell against the counter, breaking several dishes and waking up another band member, they would have all probably been found dead the next morning. As far as CO detectors, yes many of us lived without them for years. I also lived without AC in my car for many years, but I would not think of owning a car without AC today. I ran on 2 calls that were CO poisoning in RVs when I was still working (Paramedic/Firefighter). In one case, it was determined the neighbors generator was the cause of the CO, entering the RV through a window that was open. In this case, one both survived, but 1 had significant brain damage. In my opinion, every RV should have at least a WORKING smoke detector, CO detector, and if propane on board, a propane detector. | ||
| David Dulmage (Daved)
Registered Member Username: Daved Post Number: 179 Registered: 12-2003 Posted From: 142.46.199.30 Rating: N/A |
Pete, Thanks for the link you posted regarding venting propane refrigerator. I've never been entirely satisfied with the performance of our fridge in warmer weather. Our vent space leaves much more than 1" clearance behind the coils. I'm going to modify the venting as shown in the instructions. Hopefully this will make an improvement. DaveD | ||
| Richard Bowyer (Drivingmisslazy)
Registered Member Username: Drivingmisslazy Post Number: 1981 Registered: 1-2001 Posted From: 75.108.79.214 Rating: N/A |
I installed a small 5 inch computer type fan above my fridge to blow hot air out the top vent. I also had a thermostatic switch set for 100 degrees that turned it on and off. Seemed to help quite a bit in hot weather. Richard | ||
| David Dulmage (Daved)
Registered Member Username: Daved Post Number: 180 Registered: 12-2003 Posted From: 142.46.199.30 Rating: N/A |
Richard, I have a small fan I got from Camping World, but I imagine a fan such as you installed would move more air. DaveD | ||
| John MC9 (John_mc9)
Registered Member Username: John_mc9 Post Number: 496 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 66.217.107.89 Rating: N/A |
Jack - Re: "propane should not be feared, but it should be respected" Exactly my intended point. Your comment regarding "a faulty LP furnace exhaust tube" struck home. We had a 35kbtu propane furnace with a leaking exhaust tube set off our carbon monoxide alarms. Most all RVers forget to check the things for rust and corrosion, and dealers rarely (if ever) check, unless asked. For one's own health and safety, a thorough inspection once a year, should be made. The furnace access plate should be removed to reveal the heat exchanger, and the heat exchanger checked for rust, etc. Many of the newer slide-outs have the fridge in the slide-out section, with the vent out the side, rather than the roof. Pete's link gives a good example of proper side venting. Not all commercially made rigs heed that example, however. Our "Class-B" does not have a curved vent passage, but just a simple flat, metal covered board. I'm in the process of changing that, since heat can be a problem. With side exhaust venting, we should be aware of awnings, etc, that may allow fumes to collect if they're located over the vents. (and again, our commercially made "Class-B" has an awning over -all- the exhaust vents).  A little common sense can go a long way! (something manufacturers seem to lack) | ||
| Gus Causbie (Gusc)
Registered Member Username: Gusc Post Number: 483 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 63.97.117.17 Rating: N/A |
The exhaust chimney to a top vent is very good if constructed as per mfg directions. The hot air goes the top pretty fast, no fan is needed. The flame is open to the side air intake which is about 14" square and on the outside wall. I don't see how this could ever cause a CO2 problem. | ||
| George M. Todd (George_mc6)
Registered Member Username: George_mc6 Post Number: 263 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 207.231.81.129 Rating: N/A |
Gus, We're talking about CO, not CO2. The problem is that peoples lungs absorb CO in preference to oxygen, by a factor of at least 20 times. The comments about cooking without adverse effects are correct, because the burners are on for a relatively short time, and everyone is awake. When the headaches, runny noses, watery eyes etc. start, action can be taken. Asleep at night, cumulative low level exposure can be fatal. Four out of five people died in an apartment in Sacramento this winter after they removed a plug and re-connected a malfunctioning wall heater that the utility company had disconnected because the landlord wouldn't repair it. To put this in perspective, air has about 20% oxygen, or 20/100. Carbon monoxide is measured in Parts per Million. As mentioned above, a concentration of 25 PPM, or 25/1,000,000 will set off an alarm. I have propane in mine, and I wouldn't be without it. Just as is said above, "respect it, and use it properly." We still don't know whether the intended fridge is a Servel or not? George | ||
| Barry McCully (Turtle)
Registered Member Username: Turtle Post Number: 2 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 71.7.185.171 Rating: N/A |
Thanks for the information the fridge is a proper RV one just didn't get any install information with it. Barry | ||
| Gus Causbie (Gusc)
Registered Member Username: Gusc Post Number: 487 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 63.97.117.10 Rating: N/A |
Barry, You can go online and get all the installation instructions. That's what I did for my Norcold. I got nothing about installation from the PO, maybe he didn't want me to see the part about the vent! George, Of course I knew that!! It wouldn't burn very well with CO2 there would it! My point is that the frige has a lot of ventilation at the air intake so I don't see how it can ever become a problem. I assumed all the time it was an RV frige. What is a Servel?? | ||
| Richard Bowyer (Drivingmisslazy)
Registered Member Username: Drivingmisslazy Post Number: 1982 Registered: 1-2001 Posted From: 75.108.79.214 Rating: N/A |
Servel was one of the very first refrigerators and they operate on natural gas. They are still very popular in the Amish communities since the Amish are not allowed to have electricity in the house. Although I have heard that some of them have it in the barns for electric milkers. Richard | ||
| Nick Badame Refrigeration Co. (Dnick85)
Registered Member Username: Dnick85 Post Number: 178 Registered: 2-2006 Posted From: 70.208.245.213 Rating: N/A |
Just to add to George's very edgucated advice, Just 9 ppm of CO will give you headachs in the morning when you wake up. Anything below 9 ppm is concidered normal and is an allowable amount to absorbe in your lungs. Take LP seriously! Nick- | ||
| John MC9 (John_mc9)
Registered Member Username: John_mc9 Post Number: 497 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 66.217.106.117 Rating: N/A |
Barry - A wealth of info is here: http://www.rvmobile.com/ And here: http://www.gasrefrigeration.net/PC%20Power_Boards.htm | ||
| Gus Causbie (Gusc)
Registered Member Username: Gusc Post Number: 488 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 63.97.117.44 Rating: N/A |
I remember when I was a youngster my aunt had an LP frige on her farm with no electricity available then. Don't know the brand but getting cold from a flame was too mysterious for me to grasp then. |
