| Author | Message | ||
| Michael W. Haworth (57fitzjohn)
Registered Member Username: 57fitzjohn Post Number: 1 Registered: 9-2007 Posted From: 72.129.237.9 Rating: N/A |
Hi guys! I recently inherited my Dads '57 Fitzjohn Roadrunner. She came out of the factory configured as a private coach, and has since gone thru a couple of renovations. Although the fuel tank was taken out and cleaned sometime in the past, years of sitting have rusted the inside again. On the voyage from Dad's house to mine, I had to stop and blow out the first-in-line of 3 fuel filters between the tank and engine approx every 15 miles. Anyone know of a shop somewhere near the Kansas City area that could fabricate a replacement tank out of aluminum? The old beast has a 534 Ford gas giant that seems to be chronically starved for fuel anyway, and getting a load of scale in the carb is the last thing I need to happen! Also, if anyone knows where I might find the emblem for the nose, and the one for the passenger side that says "private coach" I would be most grateful. Fortunately, everything else on the old beast is pretty much there and original with the exception of the roof air and updated Onan generator that replaced the old factory water cooled unit that pulled coolant from the radiator. Other than the fuel problem, the darn thing is a sweetheart to drive! Looking forward to a lot of fun miles. Regards, Mike Haworth PS pics coming soon! | ||
| Gus Causbie (Gusc)
Registered Member Username: Gusc Post Number: 485 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 63.97.117.10 Rating: N/A |
Mike, My guess is that your supply feed standpipe has rusted off. I just recently had the same problem with my TR4, plugged the filters every few miles. When I took the tank off the 4" standpipe was rattling around in the tank. I was able to flare slightly and insert another standpipe from the outside, impossible to reach from the inside. With the standpipe off all the crud in the tank bottom goes directly into the supply line. That 534 was designed for fire trucks and is the biggest gas hog you ever saw. It may also have dual ignition. This bus begs for a small Cummins conversion. | ||
| David Dulmage (Daved)
Registered Member Username: Daved Post Number: 181 Registered: 12-2003 Posted From: 142.46.199.30 Rating: N/A |
You can get Private Coach signs on eBay at http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Private-Coach-Emblem-Motorhome-Bus-Conversion-RV_W0QQitemZ1 70145807341QQihZ007QQcategoryZ50069QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem The are made of aluminum and are very nice. | ||
| Paul Lawry (Dreamscape)
Registered Member Username: Dreamscape Post Number: 113 Registered: 5-2007 Posted From: 64.40.222.139 Rating: N/A |
I can vouch for the Private Coach emblems on eBay. That's where I got mine and they are very nice. Paul | ||
| Luvrbus (Luvrbus)
Registered Member Username: Luvrbus Post Number: 108 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 74.32.80.38 Rating: N/A |
the person that makes those is a busnut and is on this board but does not try to sell any of his products here he's a nice guy and you can buy direct from him without going through the e place (Message edited by luvrbus on September 05, 2007) | ||
| David Evans (Dmd)
Registered Member Username: Dmd Post Number: 189 Registered: 10-2004 Posted From: 96.232.83.122 Rating: N/A |
wow, 2 Fitzjohns in one week. There is one on ebay calif bus with the mighty (!) 6v53 Detroit. It was around 2000. last i looked. cant wait to see pictures of yours. Good luck | ||
| Jeffrey Smith (Greenhornet)
Registered Member Username: Greenhornet Post Number: 55 Registered: 12-2006 Posted From: 198.136.32.74 Rating: N/A |
Way Cool! Post a few pics when ya get a chance. Welcome to the board too! | ||
| Michael W. Haworth (57fitzjohn)
Registered Member Username: 57fitzjohn Post Number: 2 Registered: 9-2007 Posted From: 67.77.184.156 Rating: N/A |
Thanks guys!!! I feel welcome!! I will check out the emblem guy! The fuel tank was redone by my Dad a number of years ago. He said he cut the top off and cleaned it out. Not sure what he found in there or exactly what he did, but he didnt put any kind of coating in it while he had it open unfortunately. When I blow the filters out I dont see any large flakes, but a lot of rust colored goop comes out. Also, you can see a pretty good coating of surface rust looking in the fill spouts. My plan is still to pull the tank and have it re-fabricated in aluminum which I hope will put the problem to rest for good! You're right on the nose about being the biggest gas hog ever. She's getting 4mpg or worse! Its got a really sweet 6 speed Allison automatic trans that shifts great, although I have found that NOT shifting is kind of distracting; I find myself paying a lot of attention to when and how well its shifting while I drive! Dad says that a 3208 turbo Cat is a bolt-in swap for the old Ford motor, so I'm looking around locally for a good used or rebuilt one of those. Still dont have a pic that is small enough to post on this site. File size is too big apparently, but I'm working on it! Regards, Mike Haworth | ||
| Jack Campbell (Blue_goose)
Registered Member Username: Blue_goose Post Number: 40 Registered: 5-2007 Posted From: 71.101.55.168 Rating: N/A |
Just for interest, Bob Wagnor a long time president of the Converted Coach group in the FMCA gave all of the members his last year in office a pin of the Fitzjons. Most didn't even know what the bus was. I do still have my Pin. | ||
| Jeffrey Smith (Greenhornet)
Registered Member Username: Greenhornet Post Number: 57 Registered: 12-2006 Posted From: 76.110.30.60 Rating: N/A |
Here is a good site for posting yer pics. It is pretty simple. It will resize it to a thumb when posting. http://allyoucanupload.webshots.com/ I would like to see a pic for sure. | ||
| Michael W. Haworth (57fitzjohn)
Registered Member Username: 57fitzjohn Post Number: 3 Registered: 9-2007 Posted From: 67.77.184.156 Rating: N/A |
Thanks Jeffrey! I think I've got a few on there now. Check out the ones of it sitting in Dad's building! She had been sitting for more than 2 years and was covered with dust. When I drove it for the first time you wouldnt believe how many heads turned. It looked like some kind of ghost bus or something! lol The other ones are sitting out front of the house after a good bath. The air bags in the rear go down first, so it looks like its dragging tail, but she levels out fast after about a minute when started.       | ||
| RJ Long (Rjlong)
Registered Member Username: Rjlong Post Number: 1288 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 67.181.189.94 Rating: N/A |
Michael - The 3208 Cat is considered by many as a "throw-away" engine. They don't have a reputation for decent longevity - even in the school bus industry, where they were used extensively. Rebuilds are even more problematic than new ones. Measure your engine compartment. You might find that a L10 or M11 Cummins inline six may fit, or a 6V71/6V92TA Detroit. Main problem with the 92 Detroit will be keeping the beast cool. And check with a Cat dealer, there are other models that are far more dependable that also may fit. At least, with a T-drive configuration, you've got lots of options! Cool Bus, btw!! FWIW & HTH. . .  | ||
| Michael W. Haworth (57fitzjohn)
Registered Member Username: 57fitzjohn Post Number: 4 Registered: 9-2007 Posted From: 67.77.184.156 Rating: N/A |
Thanks for the info RJ! I will do some serious research before I commit to a 3208. Appreciate the compliment! Got a ways to go before it looks as good as yours! Always thought I'd end up with a Scenicruiser, but this one wins a lot of points for sentimental value, not to mention rarity, with me. Everyone thinks I'm insane to even consider traveling in a 50 year old coach, so I'm sure I've found the right website to post! Fortunately, Dad has hoarded a pickup load of spare parts so I have a lot of projects to keep me busy for the winter. I rented a spot in an underground warehouse here for (ouch) $115 mo. for storage. Seems like a lot, but its always 60deg. and the owner doesnt mind me working on it in there. The old beast seems quite happy parked next to a really nice Prevost. (there goes the neighborhood!) | ||
| David Evans (Dmd)
Registered Member Username: Dmd Post Number: 190 Registered: 10-2004 Posted From: 71.251.5.21 Rating: N/A |
oh yeah! you gotta keep that one if you can. She looks great. Fix her up and make the trip south one winter and show her off. | ||
| Paul Lawry (Dreamscape)
Registered Member Username: Dreamscape Post Number: 116 Registered: 5-2007 Posted From: 64.40.222.139 Rating: N/A |
I have such a fondness for older buses. Don't know much about yours but I will tell one thing, GO FOR IT! It will be a piece of history driving down the road. Lots of heads will turn for sure. Paul | ||
| Jeffrey Smith (Greenhornet)
Registered Member Username: Greenhornet Post Number: 61 Registered: 12-2006 Posted From: 76.110.30.60 Rating: N/A |
Great looking bus you have there. Thanks for the pics. Keep posting yer progress. | ||
| Mark R. Obtinario (Cowlitzcoach)
Registered Member Username: Cowlitzcoach Post Number: 156 Registered: 4-2001 Posted From: 204.245.250.12 Rating: |
I would not choose a 3208 or a 3208T. The injection pump is a real POS PITA on which to work--special tools for instance. In school bus use the 3208/3208T rarely made it to 200K miles without a major disaster. The Cummins 555, IHC 9.0L, and Detroit 8.2L are all about the same size and generally less reliable than the Cat. Of the three the 9.0L was the best of the bunch. The 6V-53 or 6V-53T were also offered in the same size of vehicles in which the Ford 534 was offered. The downside of the -53 series engines is it really gives the definition of "screaming Jimmy"--2150 RPM's on a -71 series is loud, 2650 RPM's on a -53 series is really loud. The major problem of going to any of the heavy duty diesel engines is they all, for the most part, tach out at 2100 RPM's. Unless you regear your rearend your top speed is going to drop 10-15 MPH or more. If you have the space, a DT466 is a great engine with lots of torque for the HP and comes with wet sleeves--a heavy duty diesel engine design in a medium duty size. And like the other medium duty diesels, the redline is 2650 RPM. HP range is anywhere from 160-250 HP. If you don't have the space, a Cummins 5.9L B-series is quite a bit shorter than the DT466. It can be pumped up quite a bit and since it has been in Dodge pickups for quite a few years now used power packages are available for reasonable prices. You may also look at the IHC DTA360. It was the little brother of the DT466. Not as much HP or torque but a lot more of them in smaller school buses than the DT466 (I am partial to inline '6' power). Another choice would be the IHC T444/T444E. It was the Navistar/IHC version of the V-8 diesel engine in Ford products. They are not identical and would be much preferred over the Ford version. The least expensive way to purchase your power package would be to purchase a used school bus with the engine and transmission of your choice. By purchasing the complete vehicle you would be getting all of the additional parts you will need to complete your swap--from the fan back to the transmission you would have everything. It is particularly important if you choose a newer electronically controlled power package. You may ask why a school bus? There are a lot of them out there which translates to lower cost. Most school buses are not kept more than 10-15 years now so a school bus power package should have quite a bit of life left in it when the bus is surplussed. If you find one in the rust belt the price will be closer to $1K than to $5K. And when you have scaveneged all of the parts and pieces you want off of the bus you can scrap it out @ $100 per ton (figure an empty full size school bus without the power package about 5 tons). Good luck on keeping a real treasure on the road. Mark O. Castle Rock, WA | ||
| doug yes (Dougg)
Registered Member Username: Dougg Post Number: 34 Registered: 1-2007 Posted From: 71.30.253.226 Rating: N/A |
How about a Cat 3126? It's used in rear engine Bluebirds and Thomas. You might find one connected to an automatic Allison. | ||
| Mark R. Obtinario (Cowlitzcoach)
Registered Member Username: Cowlitzcoach Post Number: 159 Registered: 4-2001 Posted From: 204.245.250.28 Rating: N/A |
The 3126 is better than the 3208 by a long way but it also has had some issues, particularly with the electronics. Most of the local districts have gone away from Cat engines completely because of the problems. It may just be a local problem with either the dealer of just a batch of bad engines. If you don't mind the vibration, a DD Series 50 out of a transit would be another good choice. The real advantage of the Series 50 is it will fit very easily where a V-8 used to live. It is considerably shorter than most I-6 engines. The HP ratings can be pumped up into the 250-275 HP range. If you decide to go with any electronic engine/transmission power package, purchase the complete donor vehicle. You are going to need the wiring harnesses, sensors, etc. to make it work. Without the donor vehicle's help you are going to have a really hard time making it all work correctly. Since your Fitzjohn has a rear engine layout, purchasing a rear engine bus is a better idea than a truck or conventional bus. A bus with a rear engine will have a wiring harness that is already long enough to transplant. Good luck. Mark O. Castle Rock, WA | ||
| Gus Causbie (Gusc)
Registered Member Username: Gusc Post Number: 489 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 63.97.117.52 Rating: N/A |
I would go for the Cummins 5.9L B-series. This thing is up to about 350hp now and 2500 rpm is no problem. I have a one ton Dodge with this engine and it likes to rev, took me a while to get used to that. It is also nice and small. | ||
| Michael W. Haworth (57fitzjohn)
Registered Member Username: 57fitzjohn Post Number: 5 Registered: 9-2007 Posted From: 67.77.184.156 Rating: N/A |
anyone have any idea what would work with my Allison auto trans? I would really like to keep the original trans setup 1. so I dont have to hang clutch pedal and hydraulics, and 2. the old floor mounted trans-mixer is pretty darn cool! Any companies making adapter plates? Also, off hand, I dont know for sure what make the drive axle is, but I'm hoping for a top speed around 80 mph. Best guesses as to whether the rear-end can be re-geared, or should be replaced!? Gus!!!! 350hp! That would be a nice motor. Ummmm, accepting donations! haha. Mike ps: The old beast is getting some neat white stripe, or white wall tires for Christmas! |
