| Author | Message | ||
| Ted Gilbert (Ted01)
Registered Member Username: Ted01 Post Number: 1 Registered: 12-2007 Posted From: 71.60.38.226 Rating: N/A |
I've been lurking for some time now, but just joined and was wondering if anyone has ever connected their drivers air to 110 compressor to run off the genny. I would like info on sizing and equipment. I am converting a 1988 MCI 102 and have done a roof raise and am putting in a 13 foot slide, any advice will be appreciated!! Thanks, Ted | ||
| Jeffrey Smith (Greenhornet)
Registered Member Username: Greenhornet Post Number: 90 Registered: 12-2006 Posted From: 76.110.47.183 Rating: N/A |
Nope never done it...but welcome aboard. Sure someone will chime in here with yer answer! | ||
| Nick Badame Refrigeration Co. (Dnick85)
Registered Member Username: Dnick85 Post Number: 187 Registered: 2-2006 Posted From: 70.208.156.145 Rating: N/A |
Hi Ted, I have never done it. "YET" Lol However, my drivers evaporator looks to be somewhere in the 9,000 to 12,000 btu range. I have not found any tags to confirm this but, I'm giving you from expierence. With that said, You should be able to find a 1 hp R-22 115v refrigeration unit in either Copeland or Tecumpsh models. Linked to a 1 ton expantion valve, you could be producing a nice and frosty wind shield. A bit of an expensive way to get cool but, to each his own! Let me know if you will further persue this and I would be glad to guide you. Good Luck Nick- | ||
| david parker (Dparker)
Registered Member Username: Dparker Post Number: 4 Registered: 12-2007 Posted From: 208.71.234.173 Rating: N/A |
Ted, I converted my coach air to a "basement" air -- which provided my drivers air to be functional. I had to change both expansion valves (drivers and coach evaporators) to ones calibrated to r22 put a 5 ton copeland scoll compressor in the condensor cabinet, removed and replaced all the old r12 seals and hoses -- works great ... on my old bus mc7 they (mci service manual) rated my coach unit at 7 tons ... i believe nicks assement is right on the money (9-12K btu) -- but as he points out size the expansion valve to the compressor and it will not matter that coil is too large ... on my old bus most of the lines were copper so the conversion was rather straight foward -- i used time delay relays to step my condensor, evaporator and condensor motors for generator laoding -- | ||
| david parker (Dparker)
Registered Member Username: Dparker Post Number: 5 Registered: 12-2007 Posted From: 208.71.234.173 Rating: N/A |
Ted, By the way -- i have an old roof top unit from one of my splicing trailers that one of my guys drove under a hotel canopy marked 9.00 feet -- problem is my splicing trailers are 9.2 feet -- messed up the plastic housing dented the condensor coil but system remained sealed -- you can have it for the cost of shipping .... or pick it up in summerville, ga (~90 miles north of atlanta kindva towards chattanooga, tn) david | ||
| david parker (Dparker)
Registered Member Username: Dparker Post Number: 6 Registered: 12-2007 Posted From: 208.71.234.173 Rating: N/A |
Ted, Just curious on the slide -- how did you handle the engineering on the slide installation? i know my MCI uses the side wall as a structural member (no frame as such) how did you accomplish this? thanks - david | ||
| George M. Todd (George_mc6)
Registered Member Username: George_mc6 Post Number: 324 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 207.231.75.253 Rating: N/A |
Dave, That is the way to go in my opinion. A question, though. How are you powering your two evaporator fans, and your cond. fan? I assume they all became 120 or 240? I would also assume that 5 T is more than enough for a conversion? George | ||
| George M. Todd (George_mc6)
Registered Member Username: George_mc6 Post Number: 325 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 207.231.75.253 Rating: N/A |
Ted, Are you trying for OTR air up front, or more cooling when parked, or? Just remember you will need a condenser somewhere. Nick and I will be glad to help. George | ||
| david parker (Dparker)
Registered Member Username: Dparker Post Number: 8 Registered: 12-2007 Posted From: 208.71.234.173 Rating: N/A |
George, You are correct ... I converted the coach condensor and evaps to 240 volt ... to make the front work either way i left it 24 dc ... in that way i could use it for defrost with heat in the winter if i was not running the generator or ac -- i have a small 120 / 24 vdc converter just for this motor to give flexiablity ... as to capacity this summer in ga when it got to 105 outside if you open the front door alot the interior would creap to 75-78 but it was very comfortable with the air being dehumified ... i put a hardwood floor and used the old floor recess as return so it takes the majority of the air from the front around the door, i am considering some floor vents to act as returns but of course they would be right in the middle ... i have one in the rear that gives me a return in the back bedroom with out the sun i can make it so cold that you have to run the windshield wipers because all the windows are so cold the condensation is running off the bus ... **next time -- i am going to convert a newer bus (so that i can have real engine cummings, cat or series 60) i am going to do a 3 phase genset use 3 phase motors on the condensor and evap motors with drives to control the speeds based on the head pressures with a plc for control -- but you have to crawl before you can run ... | ||
| Nick Badame Refrigeration Co. (Dnick85)
Registered Member Username: Dnick85 Post Number: 189 Registered: 2-2006 Posted From: 70.208.156.145 Rating: N/A |
Hi David, quote:[**next time -- i am going to convert a newer bus (so that i can have real engine cummings, cat or series 60) i am going to do a 3 phase genset use 3 phase motors on the condensor and evap motors with drives to control the speeds based on the head pressures with a plc for control -- but you have to crawl before you can run ...] That will make it very hard to keep cool/warm in the event of a genny falure. You would have no means of plugging in to a park or house as back-up. Then again, us bus nuts are very resourcefull!!! Nick- | ||
| Sean Welsh (Sean)
Registered Member Username: Sean Post Number: 697 Registered: 1-2003 Posted From: 162.6.230.230 Rating: N/A |
We did exactly this. Our driver compartment is on a lower level than the living area, so a roof air was out of the question. We yanked out the old heater and evaporator coils, since we could not get proper sizing or orifice information for them, and they were 20+ years old with all that entails. We replaced the whole shebang with a unit from Red Dot which had two adjustable vents plus four 3" duct apadpters, and ran ducts throughout the dash. We then took the sizing information from Red Dot and purchased a Copeland commercial refrigeration compressor to match it. The Red Dot stuff has automotive connectors, and the Copeland has refrigeration connectors, so we had a hose shop make up hoses with the appropriate fittings to hook it all together. To this we had to add a condenser and electric condenser fan, also from Red Dot. We selected these based on the size of the system and the chosen mounting location behind the front grille of the coach, where they get plenty of air flow while moving. The condenser fan is 24 volts (and very noisy, I might add). I made up a relay box to convert the 24-volt control signals from the Red Dot unit into on/off for the 120VAC compressor. We then had an HVAC shop evacuate the system and fill it with refrigerant. We had to guess on the amount, with final "sizing" being done based on the temperature delta between the evaporator and ambient. We used 134A, although the compressor is rated for R12 and R22 as well. I'd love to give you sizing information, but I'll have to go find the documentation. Also, it's probably different from your specific situation. We're very happy with it -- it keeps us comfortable in most conditions, although 100+ outside temps with full sunlight on the windshield overwhelms it. And we have no 40'+ refrigerant hoses to deal with, and the associated pressure drops. Plus, we can run this system even when parked (so long as anyone within earshot can stand the noisy condenser fan). FWIW. -Sean http://OurOdyssey.BlogSpot.com | ||
| Ted Gilbert (Ted01)
Registered Member Username: Ted01 Post Number: 2 Registered: 12-2007 Posted From: 71.60.38.226 Rating: N/A |
First of all, let me thank you in advance for help and suggestions. I guess I need to let you know what I am doing with this drivers air. Drivers air will be extra air and defrost plus help cool front of coach. I have purchased a coleman mach 2-ton plus RV central heat pump that will go in the bay, which I am hoping will do the bulk of the cooling of the coach. Like I said , this is extra cooling. Was planning to re-use 24V fans on evaporator so I can use the coach heat too. all of this is still on the drawing board. David-if you have a splicing trailer, I'm assuming fiberoptic splicing. I am a journeyman electrician out of Pittsburgh Local 5 Before I start rambling on forever, like some kind of bus nut, I am interested in the damaged roof air for parts. As for the slide engineering, alot of internet lurking. I guess I was building this coach for 3 years before I had it.You're right, roof is the main structure of an MCI coach,along with the sides floor and bay. You must window frame from the roofline to the floor to re-enforce everything that you take out. Be very careful, or you could ruin your coach if you don't do it right.If I could figure out how to put pics on this board, I could show you how I'm dong mine, it doesn't necessarily mean that I'm doing it right either! Ted | ||
| david parker (Dparker)
Registered Member Username: Dparker Post Number: 9 Registered: 12-2007 Posted From: 208.71.234.173 Rating: N/A |
all, Thanks for all the input, I will try to answer all the questions that were put to me in the last posts. In the case that I miss one please shoot me another post and i will try to do better. Nick, You are correct on my generator, however I am in the fiber optic business and use my bus for customer entertainment and support when we run natural disasters (hurricanes, ice storms, etc)we have large gensets (80KW-500KW) that we place to support communication locations, so power typically is not an issue. I also use a 20KW unit on my bus, being in the generator business they tend to be more reliable than my old bus ... in this way I keep my coach simple and reliable with most systems just being 120vac ... not really into I believe the term is boondocking my little genset will only use about .5 gal an hour -- ran for 130 hours straight on the infield at tallladega plus traveled the coach 300 miles and we used only 90 gals of fuel -- much like one our semis idling with the air on Sean, Thanks for your input -- it appears that we did a very similar thing except that I reused the old coils -- on my bus they appeared to be better constructed than the new ones that I could purchase -- i swept the old ones with nitrogen to get most of the old oil out... like you I then had to charge my system based on outside temps, pressures and optimize based on info from the compressor manufacture ... (learn more about superheat pressure - temp etc than i cared too ... finally used some of those thermodynamics classes i took in college) like you I converted my old condenser fan and it is loud on the outside -- but then when i am inside it does not bother me and when it needs to be running it is too hot to be standing outside anyway -- on my next conversion i will correct this issue with the drives and only run the fan as fast i need to optimize the condensing pressures (which will help with cooling when the inside is hot and exterior is cool preventing evap coil freezing)this will help with exterior noise. Ted, You are correct we are in fiber business and provide internet connectivity and phone service ... and would be happy to get the unit to you for parts -- that is why i initially kept it, but in our business i no longer have the luxury of tinkering so i just would buy a new one ... just call me or email and i will work out a way to get you the unit -- i also do a little trucking (mainly to support our fiber construction business) so i run to maine about monthly to get antiques for a guy that rents a building from us .. we could probably work out something on one of these trips -- however i can help -- if you are ever in the area i would love to see the slide deal -- and do not worry about if i think you are doing it right -- if you like and your coach still works that is pretty right -- but on my coach there are things that i would do different .... that is the kind of info i would appreciate from you ... if you can do email pix you could send them to my email listed in my profile -- thanks again, David | ||
| Stephen (Mohave_steve)
Registered Member Username: Mohave_steve Post Number: 11 Registered: 7-2007 Posted From: 74.32.81.113 Rating: |
I stumbled across the following info. Thought it may apply. http://www.dometictruck.com/pdf/L-2523.pdf | ||
| Ted Gilbert (Ted01)
Registered Member Username: Ted01 Post Number: 5 Registered: 12-2007 Posted From: 71.60.38.226 Rating: N/A |
thanks for the input looking at all the ops!david is setting me up with a rooftop unit for parts will look at that op first seewhat we can use out of it. still looking for anything that will work. thanks ted |
