| Author | Message | ||
| R.C.Bishop (Chuckllb)
Registered Member Username: Chuckllb Post Number: 279 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 4.240.144.3 Rating: N/A |
Last Thursday morning I fueled the coach at the local Flying J. @ $3.96 per gallon, for a 100 mile trip to the cool of the nearby mountains........this morning it is $4.23. Unbelievable,..... and unnecessary, IMHO  Really sad. RCB | ||
| Bruce Henderson (Oonrahnjay)
Registered Member Username: Oonrahnjay Post Number: 237 Registered: 8-2004 Posted From: 149.168.204.4  Rating: |
All the analysis from financial markets and government studies is that (now that the US requires ULSD and it's compliant with Euro regs), much of the diesel that's being refined in the US is being exported to Europe (and, to some extent, Asia). That's why prices are so high - so that oil companies can gather oil from whereever (sensitive US sites, foreign countries who are *not* friendly to us, etc.) and then export those products for their profit. That and "futures" trading that drives up the price of crude based on financial gambling and manipulation. I'm all for some dead, limp bodies hanging from lamp posts on Wall Street. | ||
| joe padberg (Joemc7ab)
Registered Member Username: Joemc7ab Post Number: 248 Registered: 6-2004 Posted From: 66.38.159.33 Rating: |
Price of crude should be about 50 dollars to have supply and demand in balance. I concur with Bruce that decorating these Financial Engineers onto lampposts would be quite appropriate. Joe. | ||
| Tony LEE (T_lee)
Registered Member Username: T_lee Post Number: 29 Registered: 11-2007 Posted From: 84.157.129.26 Rating: |
"Price of crude should be about 50 dollars to have supply and demand in balance" Since demand exceeds supply at US$100+++, it would be interesting to see the analysis supporting a $50 level. | ||
| FAST FRED (Fast_fred)
Registered Member Username: Fast_fred Post Number: 328 Registered: 10-2006 Posted From: 208.100.193.249 Rating: |
In 1955 the price of gas was .33c and the average family made $5000 a year. The daily use was under 10 miles a day. Todays cars get at least double the fuel milage , but the family now has 2 cars , running 40 miles each. We will pay high prices until someone gas the balls to say NO to the Democrats . 85% of the offshore oil is off limits, 30% of the gulf of Mexico is all that is allowed to drill. The cleanest coal in the world was made a "desert park" for the Riadies ($2mil to Bubba). The Fischer Topsch method will convert coal into fuel JP, Diesel or gas for $30 a BBL The oil we buy from Canada comes in a large part from shale , we have more shale than Canada , but. A Nuke power plant or oil refinery needs almost 800 permits , all of which can be endlessly contested in court. I could go on, but the time is here to get Our Oil Out. FF | ||
| H3-40 (Ace)
Registered Member Username: Ace Post Number: 839 Registered: 10-2004 Posted From: 70.220.127.152  Rating: |
"We will pay high prices until someone gas the balls to say NO to the Democrats" Uh I think we have said YES to the republicans for the last eight years and look what has happened to the working man. When a democrat was in office, the nation was in far better shape in general and had money in the bank so to speak! Everyone in general was way better off but then again, this is one reason you and me never see eye to eye! You obviously stand behind the crooks that put us in this situation! I could on and on too but it won't change anything so let's just let it go! Ace | ||
| R.C.Bishop (Chuckllb)
Registered Member Username: Chuckllb Post Number: 280 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 4.240.214.40 Rating: |
now now! .... Ace, Question: didn't hear (see) a rebuttal to what was presented as "fact"...???? Could it be that perhaps Fred knows something? As I stated in my first post..."unnecessary...and sad".  RCB | ||
| Kyle Brandt (Kyle4501)
Registered Member Username: Kyle4501 Post Number: 419 Registered: 9-2004 Posted From: 65.23.106.193 Rating: |
People place blame based on their understanding of the 'facts'. Some people are well read & discerning in their interpretation of the 'facts'. Some understand the difference between micro-economics & macro-economics. Some can back their opinions up with logical reasons, while others prefer emotional hype. Some believe what they want without taking time to think thru the hype to see what really makes sense. Some still believe that a pryamid scheme is a good way to run the country. Actions speak louder than words. As for me, It is hard to believe that fuel prices are too high when I don't see : - any reduction in demand - any reduction in traffic - any carpooling - traffic in general slowing down. I must be missing something. . . . | ||
| John MC9 (John_mc9)
Registered Member Username: John_mc9 Post Number: 596 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 66.217.107.106  Rating: |
Re: "...I think we have said YES to the republicans for the last eight years and look what has happened to the working man...." Atta' boy, Ace!! Bingo! | ||
| Bob Wies (Ncbob)
Registered Member Username: Ncbob Post Number: 247 Registered: 2-2006 Posted From: 70.220.153.127 Rating: N/A |
When we left Florida to come home to NC I paid $4.17 a gallon. IF there's a (promised) lifting of the Federal Tax on diesel and George W comes through with his promised Stimulus payment I might promise the bus that I'll fill the tank for the return trip to FL next fall. If none of the above comes to fruition I'll just stop believing in promises and vote for Bob Barr in November. I haven't heard him make any promises. Bob | ||
| Jack Hart (Jackhartjr)
Registered Member Username: Jackhartjr Post Number: 29 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 64.12.117.73 Rating: |
Folks, read your history...it's not the man in office...it's who is in control of congress, we were a lot better off when the republicans were in control. the democraps have had control for the past I think six years...that's when it started going down the tank! Jack | ||
| joe padberg (Joemc7ab)
Registered Member Username: Joemc7ab Post Number: 249 Registered: 6-2004 Posted From: 66.38.159.33 Rating: N/A |
Fred Considering that the U S is sitting on 3/4 of the worlds known coal supply and the process was perfected over 65 years ago. Part of the oil that we ship south from here comes from the tar sands in addition to heavy oil recovered through steam injection from the Cold Lake area. Cost of recovery is 9 dollars per barrel. Any surprise why the retiring guy from Exxon goes home with 400 million? | ||
| R.C.Bishop (Chuckllb)
Registered Member Username: Chuckllb Post Number: 281 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 4.240.213.232 Rating: N/A |
Kyle...I wonder if you aren't dead on.....you must be.... ( missing something?) . Again I say...where is the rebuttal? FWIW RCB | ||
| joe padberg (Joemc7ab)
Registered Member Username: Joemc7ab Post Number: 250 Registered: 6-2004 Posted From: 66.38.159.33 Rating: N/A |
When Fred remembered filling his tank at 33cents per gallon he was paying with either silver dollars or the paper variety, which had an inscription in fine print "will pay to the bearer on demand". Off course that is missing today, because your Federal Reserve note cannot be exchanged for anything other than another Fern. BTW it is the same song here north of the 49th. For those that remember a little history international trade was settled in gold and at that time it traded for $42.22 The regular citizen could not be trusted to have any, because Hoover I think it was had made it illegal. Guess what guys, it is still cheap. At today's goldprice that gallon should be selling at 6.76. The governments greatest weapon to make the average guy poor is the hidden tax of inflation. Fifty years ago one breadwinner could support and raise a family, now it takes two. The dollar has lost 97 percent of its purchasing power since 1913, and with the deficit spending on the increase it will get worse. end of rant. Joe. | ||
| Donnie Daugherty (Dr_detroit)
Registered Member Username: Dr_detroit Post Number: 3 Registered: 3-2008 Posted From: 64.183.131.20  Rating: N/A |
I believe it was FDR that did away with the Gold Standard. Check out this link for some info, of course this is one set of opinions, I am sure there are others that are opposite. Might want to get another cup of coffee, it's a long read to get all of the information. http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/L-gold.htm | ||
| John Riddle (Jriddle)
Registered Member Username: Jriddle Post Number: 10 Registered: 3-2008 Posted From: 207.171.202.173  Rating: N/A |
I keep hearing that climate change has not seen temps change this much in 300 years. I know that all of have an impact on the envioment. My question what happened 300 years ago? I think Fred makes a good point. Food for thought. | ||
| FAST FRED (Fast_fred)
Registered Member Username: Fast_fred Post Number: 331 Registered: 10-2006 Posted From: 208.100.193.18 Rating: |
When a democrat was in office, the nation was in far better shape in general and had money in the bank so to speak! Weather his pants were up or down the economy was living off the previous REGAN tax cuts , and even though his dopes passed the largest tax INCREASES in world history , the economy is so large it took years for the real recession Busch received to form. We , after the Busch tax cuts have had the best economy the world or nation has EVER seen. Unemployment below 5% where most thought it was impossible to go. Like most things wrong , CONGRESS is responsible , usually with Presidental help. The "housing crisis" started by J Carter , who got a bill passes that homes in red lined areas could not be denied loans. Fair enough , but few could qualify for home loans , so Bubba Blubba forced the banks to "Damn the Paperwork" full speed for totally unqualified borrowers . The result is the bubble where 25 years of housing appreciation was done in 4 years. Since there can not be "discrimination" the no provable ability to repay was of course extended to Jumbos , huge $700,000 loans for speculators , MIAMI condo fever resulted. Blowjob Bill also vetoed offshore drilling and the 2000Acre drilling in 18,500,000 acre Anwar artic desert. His "reason " (14 years ago) was it would take 10 years to go online . We could USE that million BBL a day about now. FF | ||
| Rick Johnson (Plywud)
Registered Member Username: Plywud Post Number: 13 Registered: 9-2007 Posted From: 24.17.125.224 Rating: N/A |
Ace Ace Ace, you are my fathers generation. There surely are things I miss about what you were able to accomplished, and aspects I will never understand. Pelosi is a demacrate my friend and if you think we're going to be in better shape with Slick Willey as first lady, I can only shake my head. You don't want to pay $120 a barrel for oil, don't buy it. It's the basis of a free market economy and it works. You walked 5 miles to school each day, up hill both ways, I know cause that's what my dad told me. Maybe it's time to start walking again, won't take Chevron long to figure out a solution, and I bet you it won't take a year or two to build the intrastructor to solve the problem either. I love free enterprise, it's why I'm a Republican. RJ RJ | ||
| John MC9 (John_mc9)
Registered Member Username: John_mc9 Post Number: 597 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 66.217.105.208 Rating: |
Re: <i>"we were a lot better off when the republicans were in control. the democraps have had control for the past I think six years."</i> Take a breath, Jack. The Demos only have a simple majority, they can't pass anything; they can't overide any vetoes without votes from the Republican side of the house. On the udder hand, when the Republicans had the majority, they had the vast majority, and enough republicans to vote lockstep, to pass or overide anything. Eight years later, and look at the mess. It's not just the guy in office, it's an entire political party voting along party lines, that's causing the damage. Low federal interest rates that made it easier for those desiring to spend more than they can afford, was an instrument of the Republican administration to "help the economy". Hummers and $500,000 homes for families that normally couldn't afford those things, were the result. All on credit. It's time for a major change - I'm just one of the many former Bush voters that won't be voting for -any- Republican for awhile. I don't know about anyone else, but I can't even afford to air up the bus anymore. Retirement funds are going faster than the medical bills that arrive daily..... OK.... I'm done with the rant. Back to bus talk. OOPs.... Hey since we only use <b>less than 10% </b>of the oil piped from Alaska, and sell the rest to other countries, why do we need more drilling? To sell more to other countries? I've been made aware that the oil is drilled/pumped on Federal land, and the administration has never considered regulating where that oil is used. (Message edited by john_mc9 on May 14, 2008) | ||
| Jack Campbell (Blue_goose)
Registered Member Username: Blue_goose Post Number: 83 Registered: 5-2007 Posted From: 71.100.207.86  Rating: N/A |
As long as they can put all the oil in the world in the same drum the prices are going to stay where the cartell says it should be. If you go out hy I-20 in Texas you see oil wells everywhere. They are drilling as hard as they can, because they are making more money than ever before. I was in business for myself most of my working life and I like to see everyone make as much as they can. That stops when it hurts the rest of the working people in the USA. If this keeps on we will have another depression like in the late 20 and early 30. I came in during one so I may go out on another. HOPE NOT Jack | ||
| Skip N (Skip)
Registered Member Username: Skip Post Number: 27 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 161.7.2.160  Rating: N/A |
Currently domestic crude from the field is $80 to $96.45 /barrel. 96.45 for Louisiana Light Sweet. $18 up from 6 months ago. So they are doing better but not like some of the others in the industry. At that end of the chain it doesn't look like demons to me. FWIW Skip | ||
| Douglas Wotring (Tekebird)
Registered Member Username: Tekebird Post Number: 338 Registered: 10-2004 Posted From: 71.59.75.212 Rating: |
Since we have a big political rant going on...... We ought to revert to the geopolitical views of pre WWII. Lose a war, you pay the victor. some third world country has a Cyclone, Sunami or whatever.......send a condolence card.......Not money or stuff. They don;t send anything to us. The world needs disasters and pandemics to regulate it's out of bounds Population growth. | ||
| hiwaycallin (Hiwaycallin)
Registered Member Username: Hiwaycallin Post Number: 33 Registered: 10-2007 Posted From: 208.98.218.205  Rating: N/A |
Wow. | ||
| john w. roan (Chessie4905)
Registered Member Username: Chessie4905 Post Number: 1120 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 71.58.48.228  Rating: |
You know, some claim that the price of oil is also high because of speculators. What if these speculators are working for Iranian, Saudi, argentenian,etc. clients...what a way to help yourself. Did you notice in the past year that every time the price of a barrel of oil started to drop several dollars that Iran and Argentina started to make threatening moves or statements, thereby causing the oil price to rise again. Food for thought. | ||
| John MC9 (John_mc9)
Registered Member Username: John_mc9 Post Number: 598 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 66.217.100.215 Rating: |
Re: "The world needs disasters and pandemics to regulate it's out of bounds Population growth." Or another Republican with a "strike first" agenda.... Whatever works! (hey I@n, are these pixles flame-proof? I smell smoke..) (Never mind..... It was just FF's hair smoldering...) | ||
| R.C.Bishop (Chuckllb)
Registered Member Username: Chuckllb Post Number: 282 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 4.240.144.58 Rating: |
After reading a couple or three of these posts/////well,....kinda wish I hadn't opened my mouth (fingers) to start this thread. Information is one thing....verbal castration of posters is another. The personal bashing and attacks are now approaching "another board"..... JTNG....wondered where you have been. Teke....well,..... what can I say. Where's the compassion? Where's the "help your brother" approach....where is the civility? FWIW and in good Faith!!!!! RCB | ||
| Paul Lawry (Dreamscape)
Registered Member Username: Dreamscape Post Number: 262 Registered: 5-2007 Posted From: 209.33.199.202  Rating: N/A |
Well said RCB! | ||
| larry currier (Larryc)
Registered Member Username: Larryc Post Number: 172 Registered: 2-2007 Posted From: 207.200.116.13 Rating: N/A |
I agree with Jack, If this goes on much longer it will suck all the money out of this country and the depression may be on. This country was built on guts and guns. We have the military to fix things. Our life style and National Security are at stake and I expect my President to do what ever has to be done to set the world straight. We are paying high prices because the world percieves us as weak. I don't care who runs our show, but I expect them to pull out all the stops to keep us on top. If I was President, Iran would be trying to give me free oil. I would have cruise missiles flying around alot of neighborhoods every damn night. | ||
| Jim and Myrna Lawrence (Daffycanuck)
Registered Member Username: Daffycanuck Post Number: 44 Registered: 10-2004 Posted From: 69.19.14.26 Rating: N/A |
"This country was built on guts and guns. We have the military to fix things. Our life style and National Security are at stake and I expect my President to do what ever has to be done to set the world straight. " Hmmmm....more war....do it my way or else...wish I had a penny for every gallon of fuel used in war... Paranoia in our world burns more fuel than sympathy!! | ||
| John MC9 (John_mc9)
Registered Member Username: John_mc9 Post Number: 599 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 66.217.102.173 Rating: |
They say you should never talk politics or religion unless you desire a fight.... Oh well, ehh? HAR! Ya'know RCB, I rarely take anything all that seriously, life's just too damned short. And for those that take -everything- seriously... best wishes... This fine Nation has been led into a war with a Nation that had nothing to do with "911"; now we can't get out of it easily. But our oil problems have little to do with any of the war factors, and more with our own greed and self-indulgence. We're willing to pay whatever it takes, to continue with our wasteful habits. That's why there are tankers sitting off our shores waiting to be unloaded. There's no "fuel crunch", there's plenty of supply, and OPEC hasn't limited anything, nor set prices. Our own commodity folk do it right here on Wall Street. They'll bid as high as they have to, to buy a chunk of the profit making supply. When we stop buying, the market declines; the demand drops, and the bidding follows the demand. It's a no-brainer from a no-brain guy. (That "high cost" in those foreign countries that some keep referring to, is high due to taxation of the fuel in those countries, so no-one should allow that argument to stand uncorrected). I own a 5-6 mpg bus, a Class B that gets around 12 mpg, a diesel van that been averaging 17 mpg, and a new Suzuki that gets around 22 mpg. Everything but the bus has been run weekly. I've been spending between 100 to 200 per week for fuel between the van and car alone.. and I'm retired. I'm wasteful, and I'm the first to admit it. And to tell you the truth, I'm one of the millions that are the cause of the sustained high price of fuel. So if anyone thinks I'm pointing a finger, let it be known that the other four of my fingers are pointing back at me. Well.... my bus is for sale (or swap), my "class B" is for sale, and I'm keeping my beloved 7.3 Powerstroke and the wife's Sx4. Neither are the most economical, but each are better than the other two. And we've begun combining trips and planning our shopping trips to eliminate any miles that don't have to be traveled. Sure, I'll consider buying a 4104 eventually (if I'm around), but in the meantime, something's got to give. When there's enough people revising their habits and using less fuel, we may see the price decline. There's no easy fix. The ease of credit buying created a ton of woes; housing and gas prices are just part of the whole miserable picture. But no Democrat, Republican, or Libertarian is going to fix anything in a free enterprise country, nor should they. -We- are responsible. -We- must set our own direction. We do that through the process of supply and demand. In the meantime.... we all oughta' lighten up a lil'. | ||
| FAST FRED (Fast_fred)
Registered Member Username: Fast_fred Post Number: 332 Registered: 10-2006 Posted From: 208.100.193.107 Rating: N/A |
When there's enough people revising their habits and using less fuel, we may see the price decline. There's no easy fix. An easy fix would be to bomb the 300,000,000 middle class Indians , and about 1/2 the Chinese out of the market. Since thats not nice or moral, the next best thing would be to drill the oil we have to be self sufficent. A quick fix could be to remove the requirements for 22 different Botique gas formulations for hundreds of different Zip codes. Getting the alcohol out of the gas would increase fuel mileage about 10%, but don't plan on it the States are happy with the extra taxes from the useless "fuel". Getting rid of the LA air police junk on cars would only take one model cycle and is worth another 15%. Using 25% less gas might not lower the price that much, (Damn rest of the prosperous world)but it could be done almost overnight. As suspension of the appeals and law suits on the licensing process would pay off in under 5 years. $30 a BBL fuel from coal is very easily done , except for the Democrats, and as of today the Polar Bears! FF | ||
| FAST FRED (Fast_fred)
Registered Member Username: Fast_fred Post Number: 333 Registered: 10-2006 Posted From: 208.100.193.107 Rating: N/A |
Hey since we only use less than 10% of the oil piped from Alaska, and sell the rest to other countries, why do we need more drilling? To sell more to other countries? We sell the AK oil to Japan as they use this really filthy stuff to run power plants . We sell it to purchase much cleaner crude that converts to Gas Diesel and most especially plastics. Its cheaper to "swop" oil buying good oil and selling the dirty stuff than cleaning up our own oil. Perhaps if there was a new refinery permitted to be built in 35 years this would not be required. FF | ||
| joe padberg (Joemc7ab)
Registered Member Username: Joemc7ab Post Number: 251 Registered: 6-2004 Posted From: 66.38.159.33 Rating: N/A |
Very spirited and lively discussion, almost reminds me of the various ones we have had over solid verses stranded. Great topics: Busses, Politics, Religion and not necessarily in that order. Joe. | ||
| Kyle Brandt (Kyle4501)
Registered Member Username: Kyle4501 Post Number: 420 Registered: 9-2004 Posted From: 65.23.106.193 Rating: N/A |
Well, hell. I find myself agreeing with John MC9. If We would take personal responsibility for OUR OWN actions (as opposed to blaming others) Then we would be closer to the solution. Heck fire, we might even be able recgonize it when we see it | ||
| Tony Gojenola (Akbusnut)
Registered Member Username: Akbusnut Post Number: 21 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 208.98.151.220 Rating: |
Fred: No Alaska crude oil has been exported since 2000. see: http://www.gravmag.com/oil3.html#ak Now for my rant: If the experts are correct, in my opinion the problem lies in the area of a falling supply and a growing demand - now spreading over the world. But whether that falling supply is real or manufactured is the issue needing crlitical attention. We live in a nation whose industrial heart has been long ignored. Money in this country doesn't need to be put to work any more - it has become the industry itself. Blame the futures experts, the hedge-fund managers, the commodity traders, financiers, creative credit operatives and venture capitalists. The equity managers, wall street itself, and the stockholders are clamoring for short-term gains - and manufacturing the tools to create them - all with the blessings of the current administration. Money is at work making more money, but creating nothing in the process. That concept - or perhaps my description of it - may seem radical, but Enron - and now the sub-prime mortgage debacle are all products of it. And I believe there are more to come. So I believe a big part of the oil price issue right now is the greed for profit and the financial tools to keep it that way. With all that taking place nobody can convince me that free-market forces alone are the cause of high fuel prices. For this reason I say come on with the regulation and tax levies, i.e. windfall profit tax, etc. Its true that the end product consumer ends up with some of the burden, but the stock holders have a heavier cross to bear. And you can bet the oil companies, with wall street's blessing, will find ways to lower the tax burden, still in the interest of maximizing profit. How will they do that? They have two choices - lower their pricing or reinvest in their own production. And its apparent to me that the supply problem is here because the oil companies do not currently have an incentive to improve production and increase the supply. Its true that legal and environmental issues have driven the cost of new production and refineries to difficult heights, but they cannot possibly be out of reach for companies with first quarter profits like we are seeing today. Bring back the investment tax credit if need be, but tax the shit out of companies generating astronomical profits and give them incentives to do the right thing for the consumers and their stock holders. You may remember the downfall - or collapse - of the steel industry in this country that occured during the 60's and 70's. They too were profit focused and averse to expansion - even to modernization. So when it came time to produce 48" steel pipe for the Alyeska Pipeline - guess who couldn't produce it. It all came from Japan. tg | ||
| FAST FRED (Fast_fred)
Registered Member Username: Fast_fred Post Number: 334 Registered: 10-2006 Posted From: 208.100.193.252 Rating: N/A |
Great topics: Busses, Politics, Religion and not necessarily in that order. You forgot Stranded vs Solid wire. On boats the 1 or 2 engines and which anchor to use is another religion. "Its true that legal and environmental issues have driven the cost of new production and refineries to difficult heights, but they cannot possibly be out of reach for companies with first quarter profits like we are seeing today." They ARE out of reach as no mater what permitting (800 or so for a refinery double for a Nuke plant) is done thet will be endlessly appealed, so nothing new ever gets built or drilled. While the profits are high $900,000,000 last year the fact is the industry spent $1,200,000,000 on investments in energy research , drilling techniques etc. Believe it or not the 100 million dollar drill rigs are usually rented , towed in place and when finished the well is hooked to shore or a tap, and the drill rig moves on. A tanker is rented for $75,000+ per day to move the oil. The dollar numbers are huge , because of inflation, just move the decimal 2 or 3 places and it won't be so bad looking. FF | ||
| R.C.Bishop (Chuckllb)
Registered Member Username: Chuckllb Post Number: 283 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 4.240.141.74 Rating: N/A |
Perceptive thoughts, TG. And I, for one, agree with your premises; many agree, I'm quite sure. Seems like there have been lots'a good comments ( ideas) that have actually come out of the discussion...by a number of folks..... Anybody got any ideas about how we might get these across to the powers that be? (as my cousin says, fire the whole bunch and start over); not practical, but effective, perhaps. If the combination of things were considered ( done) as suggested in this thread's commentary, personal blasts not-with-standing, maybe this country could turn itself around. We have a lot to be thankful for...too bad newer generations can't seem to get it. Lots of folks gave up life fighting for freedom.... to pursue, but not at the expense of all that is worth pursuing....different times, different culture, different set of values, I guess. Thanx for a lively and thought provoking discussion. And yes, Joe....it has everything to do with busses and our (hopefully) continued ability to enjoy the use of them.... so we are on topic RCB | ||
| Luvrbus (Luvrbus)
Registered Member Username: Luvrbus Post Number: 381 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 74.33.36.174 Rating: N/A |
FWIW,I saw on TV that a 150,000 barrel a day refinery has been approved at Yuma AZ using oil from Mexico.One good thing about Mexicans they like to deal (Message edited by luvrbus on May 15, 2008) | ||
| john degemis (Degemis)
Registered Member Username: Degemis Post Number: 12 Registered: 3-2008 Posted From: 71.92.155.140 Rating: N/A |
The problem I see with oil is the government regulations are strangling the entrepreneurial sprit. We have incentive to produce; we have the resources and the need. But unlike the early days of our Great country you cannot just do it. I think we have seen people cutting back on usage. We will see more domestic production since there is so much money to be made. But it will take way to long. And prices will stay high. But if we can stop importing oil at least that would be something to applaud. | ||
| David Evans (Dmd)
Registered Member Username: Dmd Post Number: 239 Registered: 10-2004 Posted From: 96.232.83.216  Rating: N/A |
When i moved to long island they had just finished a nuke plant costing who knows how many millions. They never used it just started it up to prove it would work and to add who knows how many millions to the cost of cleanup and dissasembly of the nuke plant. We are still paying for all of that in our electric rates, and we know about the oil now the natural gas prices are moving on up. We all missed the boat in the late 70's and again in the late 80's. My 88 Ranger 4X4 got 14mpg at best and a new 2007 same vehicle gets.... 14mpg. Apparently we need bus nuts in the govt we have all the answers! could we at least pick a state for ourselves. And not the state of confusion. And: "Blow job Bill" is funny i dont care who you are!!! | ||
| John MC9 (John_mc9)
Registered Member Username: John_mc9 Post Number: 600 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 66.217.105.159 Rating: |
TG- Your link serves well here!! Re: http://www.gravmag.com/oil3.html#ak "Q: Who sets oil prices? Can't we make the oil companies lower prices? A: Oil companies today have virtually nothing to do with oil prices. In the 1950s and 1960s, they may have, when they had most of the control over both domestic and foreign production -- they owned the oil. With nationalization, oil-producing countries came to have more control, especially OPEC. In the 1970s and 1980s, OPEC (and mostly, Saudi Arabia) could control prices by controlling supply. Increase supply, price goes down. Decrease supply, price goes up. Today, to obtain the oil they need to refine, oil companies must purchase the majority of what they use -- at market prices. From the 1990s to the present, even OPEC has very little control over prices because there is very little (some say none) excess production capacity anywhere in the world, including Saudi Arabia. Supply cannot be affected, so the price depends on demand. In the long run (months), the price is entirely controlled by the people who consume oil - for the most part that means American drivers. In the short run, on a daily basis, the price is set by buyers, including market speculators, whose gut reaction to geopolitical, weather, and other impacts on the global market result in their "bets" that supply and demand a month or so out will be such-and-such, and that therefore the price they are willing to pay is this-and-that. There are only three significant oil-trading exchanges in the world: the New York Mercantile Exchange, a similar one in London, and a new smaller one in Dubai. A comment on this topic by Ralph Nader • EIA graphic relating oil price to 74 geopolitical events since 1970 Oil traders are human, and their reasons for being willing to buy oil contracts at any particular price range from scientific to emotional to downright illogical. For example, as the price neared $100 but fluctuated, when prices were as low as $94 or $95, many traders bought at those prices, seeing them as bargains in the face of (likely) impending prices at or over $100. Such buying then drives the price up, almost like a self-fulfilling prophecy." | ||
| FAST FRED (Fast_fred)
Registered Member Username: Fast_fred Post Number: 335 Registered: 10-2006 Posted From: 208.100.193.96 Rating: N/A |
"Anybody got any ideas about how we might get these across to the powers that be? VOTE! My method this year is simple , there are two opposite camps. Keep America, ON (we get Our Oil Now) Shut America down, OFF (Oil From Forigners) Any politico that is for keeping our country ON gets mt cash and vote the ones that want to cut us OFF to live in mud huts , does NOT . Pretty simple for me,just ask them. FF | ||
| Muddog16 (Muddog16)
Registered Member Username: Muddog16 Post Number: 374 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 67.142.130.41 Rating: N/A |
Sometimes you "think" your getting screwed and can't do anything about it, and sometimes you "know" your getting screwed and can't do anything about it! I for one am a conservative, but I have to admit the greed and corruption in government and business is out of control.......! Neither party represents their constituents anymore its all about party and agenda left against right......black against white......watching the media on a daily basis is just sickening, and it doesn't matter which side you like. When we get back to America and forget this RED STATE, BLUE STATE we might have a chance. With the problems we have today its evident that nothing gets done in Washington! But they do look cute on C-Span! | ||
| john w. roan (Chessie4905)
Registered Member Username: Chessie4905 Post Number: 1122 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 71.58.48.228 Rating: N/A |
As everyone wants to blame A,B, and C, remember that trains, planes, trucks, power plants, homes, etc. are major consumers of imported oil also. Even if we doubled the fuel mileage of our cars, the problem will still exist. China, India, and Soviet Union will consume much more in coming years than we'll ever be able to save. At present, I haven't seen anywhere that world oil production is increasing to meet demand. What is everyone going to do if the Democrats take over the White House and in two years, oil is $200 a barrel? Still blame Bush? Unfortunately, it will probably take a world recession to drastically reduce the price and demand of oil. | ||
| R.C.Bishop (Chuckllb)
Registered Member Username: Chuckllb Post Number: 284 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 4.240.213.51 Rating: N/A |
And.... I understand the Saudis gave us a bye today.....Can't blame Bush, Gore,(yep, Gore) or Clinton(s) on that...; I'm quite sure McCain had nothing to do with it Howmsoever...I note that OBAMA challenged Bush and Mc Cain to a debate on "terrorism: or was that terriorism??? Where's DML in this? RCB | ||
| FAST FRED (Fast_fred)
Registered Member Username: Fast_fred Post Number: 336 Registered: 10-2006 Posted From: 208.100.193.145 Rating: N/A |
Why would Obama want to debate terrorism? he already HAS the support of Hamas . And has promised to raise the stature of every terrorist group by meeting with them . FF | ||
| Tony Gojenola (Akbusnut)
Registered Member Username: Akbusnut Post Number: 22 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 208.98.151.220 Rating: |
Fred: Methinks thee doth watch too much of the fox noise diatribe spewed out by Sean Hannity and Bellow Wryly! Now, back to oil: For those who refuse to believe that the Bush wars have impacted your gas price, consider this: The experts (most of them anyway) have blamed it all on increased demand and high consumption. But the largest single buyer of petroleum oil in the world may just be the US DOD. US military consumption appears to be higher than all but about 45 nations worldwide, and the biggest single user in the US. If you don't believe the demand is a factor, you needn't read further, but if so, here's some food for thought: http://www.wtop.com/?nid=116&sid=1378786 http://www.reuters.com/article/latestCrisis/idUSN20416568 http://www.boston.com/news/nation/washington/articles/2007/05/01/pentagon_study_says_oil_r eliance_strains_military/?page=2 http://www.energybulletin.net/13199.html tg | ||
| john w. roan (Chessie4905)
Registered Member Username: Chessie4905 Post Number: 1134 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 71.58.48.228 Rating: |
" the experts, most of them anyway " CNN, CBS, NPR, ABC, NBC, New York Times. Ian... better get out the fire extinguishers; this site is goin up in flames! | ||
| FAST FRED (Fast_fred)
Registered Member Username: Fast_fred Post Number: 338 Registered: 10-2006 Posted From: 208.100.193.193 Rating: N/A |
CNN, CBS, NPR, ABC, NBC, New York Times , a good partial list if the L.E.S.S. Liberal Establishment Socalist Scribes. FF | ||
| John MC9 (John_mc9)
Registered Member Username: John_mc9 Post Number: 601 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 66.217.101.173 Rating: N/A |
Huh! I'll be damned! I guess anyone with a brain is a "Liberal"? Good grief. What's this Constitutional Republic come to........ .....what with the Limbaugh/Hannity ditto-heads running around like chicken little...... Oh my, oh my, oh my... the sky's gonna' fall!! Jeeeesh! (Ya'think they'd learn something after eight years...) | ||
| Rick Johnson (Plywud)
Registered Member Username: Plywud Post Number: 14 Registered: 9-2007 Posted From: 24.17.125.224 Rating: N/A |
John, I dont think it's the liberals that have the brains, I think it the liberals who have the short memories. You want to protect the homeless and unfortionate in this country. You want to make sure everyone has the right to health care, education and miminum wages. Where is that thought process internationaly? Why is it not ok for the government of this county to attact reasonable protesters at Kent State, and yet internationaly, countries can kill hundreds of thousands of their own, without that same accountability. So I guess we'd be better off if Russia was holding the Taliban responsible for 911 and the death of 200 thousand Kirds. No, No, No, China, there you go, their a good one. Ya think you'd learn something after eight years, yes I did. Well we can all define IS and BUT, we know alot more about creative financing and legal loop holes. We know where to find a good cigar, I can't wait to see him as first lady. We got a socialist married to lawyer, running against a lawyer married to a frat house boy, running against someone who has actually bled for this country married to a good looking women who owns a brewery. Any other time the question here would be whats the problem, except this guy can't decide weither his a demacrote or a republician. You think we have problems now? | ||
| joe padberg (Joemc7ab)
Registered Member Username: Joemc7ab Post Number: 252 Registered: 6-2004 Posted From: 66.38.159.33 Rating: N/A |
Hey guys We have the same problem in this country, except they go under a different banner. We have conservative versus liberal, and they all try and outdo the other, offcourse with your money. I heard a profound statement once a long time ago from an american friend and it says "never forget, they are not doing it for you, but they are doing it to you." Since that time I dont get too worked up about what is happening anymore because in most cases, there is very little that you can about it in any case. So relax, and if oil should go higher I might have to resort to camping in my backyard and those hoped for faraway trips may have to be curtailed. Joe. | ||
| john w. roan (Chessie4905)
Registered Member Username: Chessie4905 Post Number: 1135 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 71.58.48.228 Rating: N/A |
I think the "fair and balanced" refers to anything is fair and the country is pretty much balanced 50-50. When elections come out so close anymore, both sides pull out all the stops against each other. I hope that the Democrats don't expect the Republicans to lie down and be quiet if Obama or Clinton become president, even when NPR tells everyone how much better things are going to be now. Just like they said about Democrats in control in congress. Congress has a lower opinion rating that Bush, but I don't hear the mainstream media blasting them. Name one good thing Bush has received credit for by any ms media. Attack, attack, attack. I'm sick of all of it. Instead, let's talk of ways and ideas how we're going to deal with high fuel prices and still enjoy our coaches. | ||
| R.C.Bishop (Chuckllb)
Registered Member Username: Chuckllb Post Number: 285 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 4.240.141.67 Rating: N/A |
Pertinent last sentence, JR,,,,I am sure many agree with that sentiment. Incidentally, one week later (than the original post of this thread), Diesel is now at 4.33 at that station....and it is one of the cheapest ( Flying J) in the State of Texas! (double standard, huh?) FWIW RCB | ||
| John MC9 (John_mc9)
Registered Member Username: John_mc9 Post Number: 602 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 66.217.105.194 Rating: |
To set it straight.... I'm a fiscal conservative, and a social liberal. I lean towards Libertarian, but remain a Constitutionalist. It doesn't matter what party is "elected, as long as we remain with the same checks and balances our Constitution provided. There are very, very few, that see the past eight years as "good". -All- historians are recording the Bush presidency as one of the worst in the history of this country. Among the numerous reasons: the invasion of personal liberty is the greatest, followed by failed foreign policy. Does anyone remember when the phrase: collateral damage (in reference to the deaths of innocent people during warfare), became a "household phrase"? Isn't it sad, that it suggests that our families become that casual with the loss of lives? (Even "waterboarding" is found to be more humorous than torturous). It's great to be patriotic, but being patriotic doesn't mean blindly agreeing with the government at all costs.... Being patriotic, is to support the rights and freedoms of all of us... collectively, and universally. And if doing so means we must fight the government at large, then it is our patriotic right to do so. Our forefathers would have expected no less. "Liberals", "Conservatives"... Phooie on 'em all. It's time to get back to basics; It's time to be united. When the government fears the people there is liberty; when the people fear the government there is tyranny. - - - - Thomas Jefferson (There. I hope yer happy now, RCB) BTW, Diesel is $4.26 at Melbourne, Fl. Walmart. and $4.85 1/2 mile away. Go figger.... | ||
| john w. roan (Chessie4905)
Registered Member Username: Chessie4905 Post Number: 1137 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 71.58.48.228 Rating: N/A |
Most current historians are liberal. Home heating oil here is $4.50/ gallon. OWWWW! | ||
| FAST FRED (Fast_fred)
Registered Member Username: Fast_fred Post Number: 339 Registered: 10-2006 Posted From: 208.100.193.133 Rating: N/A |
"It doesn't matter what party is "elected, as long as we remain with the same checks and balances our Constitution provided. " However the appointed , unelected judges prefer to create law , from their ear wax eminations , rather than READ the Constitution. Thats why elections count , as the Pres gets to load the Court with his ideals. Anyone against the strict reading of the law is invited to a poker game where I set the rules AFTER the deal, based on my "feelings". FF | ||
| John MC9 (John_mc9)
Registered Member Username: John_mc9 Post Number: 603 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 66.217.100.147 Rating: N/A |
Awwwwww, Freddie boy..... "Thats why elections count , as the Pres gets to load the Court with his ideals." Supreme Court judges use our Constitution as the basis for their decisions. It's unfortunate that their decisions do not always meet my, our your satisfaction, but our Constitution and Bill of Rights wasn't designed to meet each individual's customized idea of what "fair" is. This Nation is a Constitutional Republic, not a "Democracy"; we do not rule by majority vote, we rule by Constitutional test. If 100% of the people vote to make -you- sit at the back of a bus, you have the Constitutional right to sit where you please. And if 100% of the people aren't happy that the Supreme Court siding with -you-, the court is still correct for following our Constitution, guaranteeing -your- freedom. I think it would take a damned disingenuous individual, to think the rule of law must be tailored to suit their own needs and ideals. Fuel: Neighbor just filled up with regular, at $3.79 per gal., and said he heard regular will be over $4.25 before Memorial day...... If it gets high enough, my bus tank-full will be worth more than the bus! WHOOPIEEE! (Message edited by john_mc9 on May 19, 2008) | ||
| R.C.Bishop (Chuckllb)
Registered Member Username: Chuckllb Post Number: 286 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 4.240.213.206 Rating: N/A |
Someone...perhaps on another forum, suggested that he goes(is going to) each week, or whenever and purchases a 5 gallon can of diesel; less pain at the pump and gets the coach filled over a period of time. The more I think about it, I may take the same route. Psychologically, it makes good sense and gets the job done. When I write a check for a couple hundred dollars or more, it is a real bummer to start a trip....knowing that if going far, it will be the same along the way...going and returning. We carry an extra 6 gallon container full anyway. Also have given thought to simply stopping more often, if traveling. In our coach, a hundred dollar bill will bring about 250 miles of travel +-. On fixed income, it doesn't take many of those to make the jaunt a downer. Hard earned SS doesn't go very far these days. But, like politics and other things, it's a choice; as FF says, "do it your way" Albeit, I am sure open to suggestions (helpful) >>> Still $4.33 at this time RCB | ||
| Kevin Mossman (Ktmossman)
Registered Member Username: Ktmossman Post Number: 12 Registered: 9-2007 Posted From: 216.46.98.249 Rating: |
The notion that the Supremes base their decisions solely on the Constitution doesn't even jive with their own words, much less reality. Several of the current justices have readily admitted that they consider "foreign sources of law" in their deliberations. In fact, in a recent controversial case, the majority opinion cited recent decisions by the "European Court of Human Rights" to support their decision. On the "checks and balances" issue, many of those "checks and balances" have long since been removed. Example: The bloat in the size and scope of the federal govt. may largely be attributed to the change in how Senators are selected. Originally, Senators were selected by the State Legislators in each state, making them accountable to their State govt. to represent the interests of their individual States in Congress. Since the change to make Senators directly elected, the Federal govt has gone completely out of control. When you consider that the Founding Fathers very explicitly specified the scope of the Federal govt. in the Constitution (pretty much limited to military action and international trade and treaties) and very explicitly denied any expansion of that scope in the Bill of Rights, it is rather obvious that many of the "checks and balances" have long since been thrown overboard. | ||
| Rick Johnson (Plywud)
Registered Member Username: Plywud Post Number: 15 Registered: 9-2007 Posted From: 24.17.125.224 Rating: N/A |
John, a fiscial conservatuve, social liberal leaning towards Libertarian but remain a Constitutionalist, you forgot isolationist. Bushs failed presidency, 5 million women now have the right to vote, the right to education, where's Helen Gurley Brown when you need her? Where was the cry about collateral damage when Sudam was in power? You think this constitution you hold so close to your heart has a ounce of redeeming social value outside the bounderies of this country because your an intellectual? This is an all volenteer army John, not like Viet Nam. It's kinda like the price of oil, you don't want to pay $125 a barrell for oil, don't buy it. You don't believe in the constitutational rights of all people, not just the United Satates of America, don't join the army. I wonder, where did all these people come from? Who are these people that are willing to risk thier lives to defend their beliefs, not just their intellect? Not unlike my church, 20% of the congregation pays 80% of the bills. RJ | ||
| FAST FRED (Fast_fred)
Registered Member Username: Fast_fred Post Number: 342 Registered: 10-2006 Posted From: 208.100.193.90 Rating: N/A |
You don't believe in the constitutational rights of all people, not just the United Satates of America, don't join the army. Although all members of the military have given up their constitutational rights for the duration and are under the UCMJ. Interesting that in 00 election the Dems flew in batches of lawyers to attempt to disqualify the military votes . FF | ||
| Kevin Mossman (Ktmossman)
Registered Member Username: Ktmossman Post Number: 13 Registered: 9-2007 Posted From: 216.46.98.249 Rating: N/A |
Now before we go too far down the "Constitutional" rights path (being a fairly strict constructionalist myself) let's clarify that the Constitution does not "grant" these rights (contrary to what Bill Clinton says). It acknowledges that ALL human beings have these rights and obligates that the govt. protect them and not infringe upon them. | ||
| John MC9 (John_mc9)
Registered Member Username: John_mc9 Post Number: 604 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 66.217.100.59 Rating: |
Kevin - Re: "Several of the current justices have readily admitted that they consider "foreign sources of law" in their deliberations. " When the case before them concerned an International issue? Of course, and rightfully so. And the loss of Constitutional direction continues, unfortunately.... I voted for Bush after his answer to the question regarding a conservative "litmus test" for Supreme Court judge appointees.. He said that he would never require more, than they base their decisions on our Constitutional mandates. So much for that.... (Nice typing, btw!) Rick - Re: "the constitutational rights of all people, not just the United Satates of America" Don't confuse International "Human rights" with our Constitutional rights. We in this fine Nation are bound to our Constitution; Other countries have their own writs. I respect Muslims, and their lifestyle, but I choose to be held to our law, not theirs; I'm sure they feel the same. Man..... This thread's taken a life of it's own! See what you started RCB? Amid all the political rhetoric (biased or otherwise), it appears we all would like to see a return to basics. We need some "socialistic" programs, like public schools and Social Security.... but most of us are sick and tired of all the "free handouts" to individuals that would be working if it weren't for the free handout.... To blame only "Liberals" or only "Conservatives" for the mess, is ludicrous. Both parties; the entire political system, has become so corrupt, that no party is without blame. I voted for Bush #1 to keep his opponent from being elected. I voted for him again, in an attempt to stop Clinton.... I voted for Bush #2 to avoid a Gore presidency, and voted against all democrat congress nominees, to show my disgust for not ousting their impeached president. But now, I would not again vote for another Republican. Not for awhile, anyway. We all make choices in life, and lately picking a president has become simply choosing the lesser of two evils.. I saw what eight years brought.... I'm not voting for another four years of it. It's just -my- opinion, but...... We've got over four thousand kids killed, from picking a fight with a nation that had nothing to do with attacks against our mainland. We've done nothing but brought that country to total anarchy, with each of three factions fighting against one another, and all against us in between rounds.. For what? Does anyone here really think the thousands upon thousands of dead Iraqi individuals are "grateful"? Does anyone really think the families of the dead are grateful? We had no place in another nation's civil war. But we're there, with no exit plan. Aside from that? Good topic! Only a modest amount of name-calling! It kinda' warms my heart to see that here! (Oh crap...naww... it's just heartburn...) | ||
| R.C.Bishop (Chuckllb)
Registered Member Username: Chuckllb Post Number: 287 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 4.240.213.184 Rating: N/A |
.....tha's alright, JTNG....most of what I have read is,MHO, fairly stated and for the most part "helpful" as any dialogue could be re our present political situation. I note that the opposition both talk about high fuel prices, etc. What they have not talked about is what they "would(sure) do" about them...how, when,etc .......precise remedy or cure seems always to be elusive; then fades after November. Once again, I am dismayed, as are we all, about the price of fuel...and HOME HEATING OIL....( thank the LORD,we don't have that particular problem in NM). Today the entire state of TX went(Flying J)UP. Vegetable oil seems to be a topic of discussion, but we all know the story with corn....and so it seems to go. Neighbor hood restaurants might soon get on the bandwagon with the sale of used Veggie oil. Then it,too, would become a valuable commodity...GOOD GRIEF! Maybe then,,,,maybe then, diesel will get back to "affordable"....or not Thanx for keeping the thread "civil", all....and for the input. And thank YOU, Ian!!!!;) RCB | ||
| john w. roan (Chessie4905)
Registered Member Username: Chessie4905 Post Number: 1138 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 71.58.48.228 Rating: N/A |
We need another dead horse. We've kicked this on so much that there's nothing left except the sh##t . Maybe a gallon can of diesel for the coach every day would be better. Closer to the price of a snack or pack of cigarettes and a LOT easier to lift and pour into tank for us older geezers. | ||
| Rick Johnson (Plywud)
Registered Member Username: Plywud Post Number: 16 Registered: 9-2007 Posted From: 24.17.125.224 Rating: N/A |
Nice skate John, smooth.......come on dodge it for me again, please..... RJ | ||
| FAST FRED (Fast_fred)
Registered Member Username: Fast_fred Post Number: 343 Registered: 10-2006 Posted From: 208.100.193.12 Rating: N/A |
The usual argument between Left and Right will hardly be solved here. The Left desires Feeedom FOR government, their religon. The Right desires liberty , and freedom with limited gov. But for folks that want to see how their BRAIN works , you know left brain or right brain , this site is very interesting. http://www.news.com.au/perthnow/story/0,21598,22492511-5005375,00.html Enjoy as we wait for to catch up on 30 years of stopped energy progress. FF | ||
| R.C.Bishop (Chuckllb)
Registered Member Username: Chuckllb Post Number: 288 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 4.240.213.164 Rating: N/A |
Did you happen to see the news about the TN farmer and son who traded their tractor for....Mules???... said it's the wave of the future............. Hmmmmm..... | ||
| joe padberg (Joemc7ab)
Registered Member Username: Joemc7ab Post Number: 256 Registered: 6-2004 Posted From: 66.38.159.33 Rating: N/A |
Chuck Input costs low and predictable, unlike oil today's price at 133. | ||
| Bob Wies (Ncbob)
Registered Member Username: Ncbob Post Number: 250 Registered: 2-2006 Posted From: 70.220.104.45 Rating: N/A |
John, I was going to stay completely out of this and find your Email and send you a personal note...but.. When you stated that we 'needed' Government programs like Schools and S/S...that did it! 'We' don't need these programs. The Liberal Left needs them! They need the Schools (read Government Indoctrination Centers) to formulate in the young minds of our children the Socialistic solutions Government and the Teachers Unions have in store for them. FDR needed S/S for the specific purpose of having an 'off budget' slush fund which wouldn't be called upon for many years wherein the Congress could dip to finance their 'Social Programs' (read dependancy on the Gov't in return for votes thus insuring their political futures). Look at the "Great Society of the Johnson Administration. It was funded during a war, which was funded seperately, from the theft of S/S funds and replaced with IOU's. I'd love to spend some time with you (and a few cold ones)this winter. We'll even invite Cliff to make it fair. Bob | ||
| joe padberg (Joemc7ab)
Registered Member Username: Joemc7ab Post Number: 258 Registered: 6-2004 Posted From: 66.38.159.33 Rating: N/A |
For further consideration have a listen to this video: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3340274697167011147&hl=en | ||
| Bob Wies (Ncbob)
Registered Member Username: Ncbob Post Number: 251 Registered: 2-2006 Posted From: 70.221.139.134 Rating: N/A |
Who is the Dumbest Member of Congress? Well, that might be quite a contest. Up until yesterday I might have had a hard time picking between that Kennedy kid, Sheila Jackson Lee from Texas and Maxine Waters from California. Yesterday Maxine Waters got her chance to grandstand in front of those very same oil company executives that were roughed up by the Senate on Wednesday. Waters didn't exactly like what she was hearing from the private sector .. so she started sputtering something about the government taking over the oil companies. She stumbled over the word "socialism," but finally settled on "taking over." The actual word she was looking for was "nationalize." What a ditz. Sadly .. thanks to our wonderful government education system ... there are quite a few Americans who would go along with the idea. I mean, after all, the votes to put an idiot like that in Congress had to come from somewhere, didn't they? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------------------------------------------------------------------- And if that isn't enough to drive you nuts follow this link to some more Government Controls in the offing...... http://blog.wired.com/cars/2008/05/with-gas-prices.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------------------------------------------------------------------- And my last word on the subject. Since the Department of the Interior, in it's infinite wisdom, has determined that the Alaskan Polar Bear should be placed on the Endangered Species list the State of Alaska has found it necessary to sue Interior in Federal Court since allowing the Polar Bear to be placed on that list would almost guarantee that oil exploration in AK would be stopped forever. There are forces within and outside of the US Government which will stop at nothing to shut this economy down and made a 3rd World Nation out of the United States. You may call them anything you wish but I truly believe that the word "Communist" fits the mold. Bob | ||
| Stephen Fessenden (Sffess)
Registered Member Username: Sffess Post Number: 729 Registered: 1-2002 Posted From: 66.38.120.219 Rating: N/A |
Yesterday a financial planner and economist told me that the supply and demand is not that far out of sync. He said the biggest problem is that Wall Street companies are able to get around checks and balances and diversify into the futures market for oil and grain with far more money than the futures market can handle. A very small amount of money for Wall Street, but enough to account for about a 40% increase in money invested in the small futures market. So we do need regulation and control of things that do not regulate themselves well. It is a balance. A totally free market economy will end up like many developing countries where the rich continue to get richer and the poor poorer. That is not the American way. We probably need cautious regulation like Greenspan used to provide the Fed. | ||
| Bob Wies (Ncbob)
Registered Member Username: Ncbob Post Number: 252 Registered: 2-2006 Posted From: 70.220.69.18 Rating: |
Just a layman's opinion here, Steve, but I truly believe in the market forces of supply and demand. Those on Wall street can play their games with speculation and attempt to manipulate the oil prices but WE, the consumer, when we're sick and tired of these shenanigans will refuse to purchase any more fuel than is absolutely necessary to perform our daily obligations. It will then back up in the pipelines, force the prices down and the gamblers in Wall Street will be faced with tremendous losses. Look what happened to the speculators in the Real Estate market. The 'flippers' got caught with their tits in the wringer and are now crying "FOUL". Tough tittie said the kitty but the milk's still warm! Bob | ||
| john w. roan (Chessie4905)
Registered Member Username: Chessie4905 Post Number: 1149 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 71.58.48.228 Rating: N/A |
What's going to happen this coming winter if heating oil is $5.00 a gallon? | ||
| Tom Caffrey (Pvcces)
Registered Member Username: Pvcces Post Number: 1202 Registered: 5-2001 Posted From: 65.74.72.93 Rating: N/A |
I don't know, but I don't think that it's IF. In any case, we're planning for it. Around here, people are dreaming up whatever they can to avoid buying fuel. Us, too. Tom Caffrey PD4106-2576 Suncatcher Ketchikan, Alaska | ||
| Stephen Fessenden (Sffess)
Registered Member Username: Sffess Post Number: 731 Registered: 1-2002 Posted From: 66.38.120.219 Rating: N/A |
People did not always heat the whole house. Now we have to have central heat and air. If you heat the area you need it in enough heat may escape to other rooms to avoid freezing pipes. In a historic home I saw in Connecticut, there was an ice pick on the wash stand to break the ice on the water in the basin in the morning before washing your face. Basements are warmer than the rest of the house in winter and cooler in summer if you don't heat the rest of the house. One things for sure, we will not live just like we used to, but we will survive. | ||
| Kyle Brandt (Kyle4501)
Registered Member Username: Kyle4501 Post Number: 422 Registered: 9-2004 Posted From: 65.23.106.193 Rating: N/A |
After getting a $500 bill for one month's use of natural gas, we've been heating with wood for the past couple of years. The living room is toasty, but the rest of the house is unheated (except for the bathroom where we use an oil filled elec heater on minimum setting). The kids don't mind & I surely don't mind the lower heating bill. We get the wood given to us during the summer. I did have to buy a wood stove, log splitter, & chain saw, BUT, the payback was in the second year. My kids are getting good at stacking wood If I had it to do over, I'd look at the outside wood-fired boilers. That'd save a big mess in the house. You can also use larger pieces of wood which saves time when splitting . . . . This has saved us enough to be worth the effort. YMMV | ||
| John MC9 (John_mc9)
Registered Member Username: John_mc9 Post Number: 608 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 66.217.107.150 Rating: N/A |
I wish I had a wood-fired bus~~~~~~~~$#%$^%! | ||
| joe padberg (Joemc7ab)
Registered Member Username: Joemc7ab Post Number: 263 Registered: 6-2004 Posted From: 66.38.159.33 Rating: N/A |
John Don't laugh, that is how they provided bus service in holland during the second world war. | ||
| john w. roan (Chessie4905)
Registered Member Username: Chessie4905 Post Number: 1155 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 71.58.48.228 Rating: N/A |
Who's going to feed the fire while you're driving down the road." MORE WOOD!!!! I'm coming to a mountain | ||
| joe padberg (Joemc7ab)
Registered Member Username: Joemc7ab Post Number: 266 Registered: 6-2004 Posted From: 66.38.159.33 Rating: N/A |
John Holland is about as flat as a pancake, no hills to worry about. And don't ask me how I know. I always told my kids when I was biking to school it was uphill both ways and into the wind with rain. I still shiver from that experience. Joe. | ||
| Richard Bowyer (Drivingmisslazy)
Registered Member Username: Drivingmisslazy Post Number: 2048 Registered: 1-2001 Posted From: 75.108.85.14 Rating: N/A |
When I went to Japan in 1950, there were still some vehicles operating on charcoal I believe. At least there was a fire in a tank mounted on the back of the vehicle. Richard | ||
| R.C.Bishop (Chuckllb)
Registered Member Username: Chuckllb Post Number: 292 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 4.240.144.246 Rating: N/A |
Mis spoke...got my regular and my diesel confuuuused....sorry 'bout that>>> must be maturity setting in...deep! Man, is this editing getting complicated...(I originally stated that diesel had raised 97 cents since the beginning of this thread three weeks ago)............scheeesh! RCB (Message edited by chuckllb on May 30, 2008) (Message edited by chuckllb on May 30, 2008) |
