| Author |
Message |
Mike Tornesello (206.170.33.68)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, June 10, 2002 - 12:38 pm: | |
I just installed an expensive inverter and I know what great battery charging capabilities it has. It is a trace with temp sensors. System is 24v. Now I need to charge from bus alternator also. I am aware of the options for separating with solonoid or isolator but my question is: What is the best way to have the charging from the bus 300A alternator be monitored to equal the quality of the inverter charging system? It seems wrong to just slam straight amps at the batts from one source when the other (inverter) is so high tech. |
Scott Whitney (24.205.234.150)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, June 10, 2002 - 4:49 pm: | |
Hi Mike,
A stand alone alternator regulator like this one might be exactly what you are looking for:
http://amplepower.com/products/sarv3/index.html
The ordering info at the bottom of the page seems to indicate there is a 24v version.
Scott |
Mike T (206.170.33.77)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, June 10, 2002 - 4:54 pm: | |
I may have answered my own question. Xantrex makes an alternator regulator with optional battery temperature sensor and also optional alternator temp sensor. It mimics the charge float sequence of the inverter. The description says that is for use with P type alternators. The tech support guy said that P type means external voltage regulator. His attitude did not instill a lot of confidence. Does anyone else know this term? Prevost in Mira Loma, CA didn't know it either. The alternator has no designation on it for P type. I wonder if it is a xantrex term. Thanks |
Mike T (206.170.33.77)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, June 10, 2002 - 5:03 pm: | |
Hi Scott, Looks like our posts crossed. Here's the one I was looking at. http://www.xantrex.com/Products/Inst_Acc/Accessories/xar.html
Yours looks like a beauty. Thanks. Mike |
Jojo Colina (Du1jec) (209.75.20.72)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, June 10, 2002 - 6:05 pm: | |
P-TYPE: One brush connected to ground and the other brush fitted with a connection to make the field connection. Voltage regulator provides a modulated positive voltage for field.
N-TYPE: One brush connected to battery positive and the other brush fitted with a connection to make the field connection. Voltage regulator drives to ground to make the field voltage.
Most alternators with external voltage regulators are p-type hence the answer you got from the tech support guy.
Hope this clarifies things. |
Scott Whitney (24.205.234.150)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, June 10, 2002 - 7:41 pm: | |
Hi Mike,
The unit I have (but not installed yet) is called 'inCharge' and is sold by Heart Interface - so it may very well be the Xantrex unit. (since Xantrex now owns Heart, StatPower and Trace) But funnily enough, in the link I posted, the picture of the AmplePower unit looks awfully similar to my inCharge. Here is the inCharge page: (scroll down)
http://www.heartinterface.com/rv/html/accessories.asp
The reason I posted AmplePower link is that I figured an independant mfr's product would be more likely to work as a stand alone unit. (for example, my inCharge plugs directly into my Link200R) But now that I see the Xantrex link, I am wondering if they are all mfrd. by some third company and simply rebranded. . .
Scott |
Scott Whitney (24.205.234.150)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, June 10, 2002 - 7:46 pm: | |
I just realized something. The part numbers for the Xantrex unit and the Heart unit are identical. . . Still not sure if the AmplePower unit is the same, though. It has a different part number. Mysterious stuff this marketing and branding!
Scott |
Mike T (206.170.3.129)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, June 10, 2002 - 8:21 pm: | |
Jojo, I don't know what to say except thank you. Be careful what you ask for, I guess. I'm amazed. So what's a field. Sound like you know your business and I don't. Can I count on the external regulator factor or would you know an 8v92 alternator to be p type? I have a diagram of the alternator with field, stators, shunt, generator, rotor exciter and rectifier assembly but no brushes. Under "performance data" it says,"The excitation characteristics of fast exciter response with maximum exciter ouput mades this generator ideal for for motor starting loads that require a very high current at low power factor during the motor starting and acceleration periods." Are we still talking about alternators?! ...I need a glossary.
Mike |
Jojo Colina (Du1jec) (68.8.172.117)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, June 10, 2002 - 11:13 pm: | |
Mike,
The amount of voltage applied to the field coil determines the output of the alternator.
The field coil is the winding on the alternator rotor, which is turned by the engine via a pulley or gears. Connections to the field coil are made by brushes since it is a piece which rotates.
Look at your alternator diagram. One side of the field coil is the field terminal. The other side of the field coil will either be connected to ground (P-TYPE) or + (N-TYPE)
It seems that the Xantrex voltage regulator does not have an equalization mode. This may or may not be an issue depending on the type of batteries that you run.
I run 20 100ah sealed AGM batteries which do not require equalization so I could have gotten away with the XAR, however when I bought my SAR v3 I was not aware of the Xantrex. I have a trace 3624 inverter and use it while in transit to power up one of my air conditioners while the SAR v3 controls the bus alternator to keep the batteries charged.
Hope this helps out. |
Scott P. (205.188.199.153)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 11, 2002 - 9:52 am: | |
I'm using the Heart Interface "In-charge" regulator. (Heart Interface is now part of Xantrex). I felt the same way--Why have an intelligent battery charger on shore power, and a dumb charger (alternator) while driving? Works great. My concern is that you have both the start and house batteries in the circuit. The start batteries are nearly fully charged, while the house batteries could be way down. How is the intelligent charger going to deal with this? How can I automatically disconnect the start battery when it is fully charged, so the house batteries can take the high amp bulk charging phase? Right now, I disconnect the start batteries from the circuit with a solenoid, then the house batts can take the full intelligent charge from the alternator. But if I forget to reconnect the start batts, I gonna be dead in the water some day. |
Jojo Colina (Du1jec) (68.8.172.117)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 11, 2002 - 11:12 am: | |
I use the same type of batteries for both house and start. I have a total of 22 batteries. Two of these batteries are the starting batteries. When the engine is off these two batteries are disconnected from the other 20. When the engine is running these are reconnected to the other 20. This is controlled by an oil pressure switch and a relay. There are provisions for this on the SAR v3 voltage regulator.
These two start batteries are only charged while on the road (under normal conditions)by the alternator. If there is a need to charge them from the inverter's charger I also have a manual switch to put them back in circuit with the other batteries. |
Mike T (206.170.33.183)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 11, 2002 - 11:16 am: | |
Jojo, it turns out that I have a brushless P type alternator. I passed on your info to Prevost service and that made the link for me. Thanks very much. I have a question that is somewhat related to Scott P's. Is the SARv3 smart enough to manage the charging of the starting batteries and the house batteries. That's what I think I read. Where does it hook up for the positive from the alternator? Directly on the alternator before the bus voltage regulator or on the batteries? Does it eliminate the need for a solonoid or isolator? Can it handle 270 amps? Lot's of questions. I like talking to you guys more than "tech support". Mike |
Mike T (206.170.33.183)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 11, 2002 - 11:18 am: | |
Jojo, our posts crossed, thanks for that info. Mike |