| Author | Message | ||
| Jim Wilke (Jim Bob) (Pd41044039)
Registered Member Username: Pd41044039 Post Number: 314 Registered: 2-2001 Posted From: 69.77.156.190 Rating: N/A |
Some time back there was a guy who was making aluminum replacement engine door frames. Is he still here? | ||
| Mel La Plante (Mel_4104)
Registered Member Username: Mel_4104 Post Number: 73 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 205.250.179.187 Rating: |
jim the tail gate frame is easy to make all you need is a make up bending jig, they also are easy to make , just go to the local scrape yard and get a piece of plate steel 18"x24", a piece of pipe 4"dia. x 3" long, and 4- 4" 34" grade 8 bolts and 2- 5" 3/4 lag bolts. now to put together, weld the pipe to the center of the plate, but only weld on the inside of the pipe as you want a 90* angle on the out side edge of the pipe to the plate. now drill a hole 3/4" near the top center and bottom of the plate these holes are used to hold the plate to a post or a tree with the lags, now drill a 3/4" hole 1 1/2 from the top of the pipe and 2 other holes above this one space them about2" apart. cut the heads of the bolts and place the bolts in the pipe so they are flush with the back side. now weld them in place. take the plate and attach to a post or tree shoulder high. now you have a bending jig. next get a piece of stiff cardboard and copy the bend of the tailgate bibs,each rib may have a slight different curve so check rach one as you go. get a piece of scrape 1" sq al. and pratice bending it being sure to keep it pressed tight to the plate as it is bent.once you figure out how much material is eguired for each bend you will know how long a piece you need for each bib. the easy thing is make one bend that has the proper curve and measure to the center of the rid, now mark the stock with the bend and then measure of the same length past that center and make your other end bend. the end up and down pieces are the easy part, now weld them together in the proper places, be sure that you jut tack weld them until you are sure that you have them right. take off your old tail gate and put the new frame in place and when happy take it off and finish welding, rehang in place and if ok remove the old skin fron th old tailgate and pop rivit in place. see it is so easy that even I can do it, and if I can so can you. enjoy the trip........... | ||
| Austin Scott Davis (Zimtok)
Registered Member Username: Zimtok Post Number: 292 Registered: 9-2006 Posted From: 216.37.73.226 Rating: N/A |
Mel, A quick drawing would help your description greatly. I will also be rebuilding my tailgate in the future. . (Message edited by zimtok on October 06, 2008) | ||
| marvin pack (Gomer)
Registered Member Username: Gomer Post Number: 302 Registered: 3-2007 Posted From: 71.55.193.233 Rating: N/A |
hey Mel:: A picture would be nice too LOL. Mine on the 4905 is getting ready to be rebuilt and all the help is needed also. I would even be willing to send to you at no charge a gift card from Wally World LOL. Some have wondered why I answer and inquire about different coaches. well I have a 1957 4104 motor home and 1974 4905 and 1978 mci-8. All are for sale too. It has been my pastime to build COACHES . I have tried to list it in the classified and can't seem to make a connection to PROPERLY[LOL} register. So there ya have it. Gomer PS Any suggestions? | ||
| Mel La Plante (Mel_4104)
Registered Member Username: Mel_4104 Post Number: 79 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 64.180.195.198 Rating: N/A |
sorry fellows but i donot have a way of sending a sketch. call me at 1-250-248-2766 and i will call you back as i have a good call plan thanks | ||
| Jim Wilke (Jim Bob) (Pd41044039)
Registered Member Username: Pd41044039 Post Number: 317 Registered: 2-2001 Posted From: 69.77.156.190 Rating: N/A |
Thanks Mel, I may end up doing that. Sounds like you already have. Ever thought of making & selling frame kits? Just the tubing with bent curves which we could trim to length, jig & weld as required. | ||
| Gus Causbie (Gusc)
Registered Member Username: Gusc Post Number: 739 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 208.54.200.246 Rating: N/A |
This brings me to something I have always wondered, was the 4104 engine cover frame originally Al or steel? Mine is square steel tubing and it puzzled me why since the rest of the bus is Al? If it was originally steel why change to Al? | ||
| Austin Scott Davis (Zimtok)
Registered Member Username: Zimtok Post Number: 293 Registered: 9-2006 Posted From: 216.37.73.226 Rating: N/A |
Gus, Mine is the original and is steel square tubing. One piece had been replaced with round conduit sometime prior to my ownership of the bus. When I do rebuild mine I will be using steel again. . | ||
| Bill Gerrie (Bill_gerrie)
Registered Member Username: Bill_gerrie Post Number: 201 Registered: 3-2006 Posted From: 166.90.247.59 Rating: N/A |
When you rebuild the frame work and you use steel tubing don't forget to cover the steel to keep it away from the aluminum skin. Aluminum and steel do not mix. There is an electrolysis action that will occur and destroy the aluminum skin. I have used duct tape in the past to avoid contact between the steel and aluminum and 20 years later no sign of corrosion. Bill | ||
| Austin Scott Davis (Zimtok)
Registered Member Username: Zimtok Post Number: 294 Registered: 9-2006 Posted From: 216.37.73.226 Rating: N/A |
Thanks for the heads up Bill. | ||
| Jim Wilke (Jim Bob) (Pd41044039)
Registered Member Username: Pd41044039 Post Number: 322 Registered: 2-2001 Posted From: 69.77.156.190 Rating: N/A |
Mel, what wall thickness was your tubing? How did you keep it from kinking? Do you think this would work on steel tubing? If the original lasted 50 years, that would work for me as I don't have 30 years of busing left. | ||
| Gus Causbie (Gusc)
Registered Member Username: Gusc Post Number: 744 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 208.54.200.243 Rating: N/A |
Austin, Thanks, I guessed that it was originally steel but it made no sense and still doesn't?? At least it makes it a lot easier to repair, my Al welding is not too hot. Zinc chromate paint on both the Al and the steel will go a long way towards preventing corrosion. Mine throws so much oil the rust doesn't have a chance!! | ||
| Mel La Plante (Mel_4104)
Registered Member Username: Mel_4104 Post Number: 86 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 64.180.201.54 Rating: N/A |
the two reasons that they used a steel frame steel was more structial to work with and will take a lot moreof twisting, bending,abuse when being slamed shut or pulled open by one corner. the othe one was that the al. tail gates are to light and if the locks are not attached proper or vibrate loose while traveling the gate will flap in the breeze.which affects the cooling of the engine as it does not get proper draft throught the rad and over the engine. | ||
| Jim Wilke (Jim Bob) (Pd41044039)
Registered Member Username: Pd41044039 Post Number: 333 Registered: 2-2001 Posted From: 69.77.156.190 Rating: N/A |
My latch was broken when I got the bus. I changed to rubber "truck hood" hold downs. It has worked well. Mel, you never responded about making square tube kits that would ship knocked down. | ||
| Mel La Plante (Mel_4104)
Registered Member Username: Mel_4104 Post Number: 88 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 205.250.180.148 Rating: N/A |
Jim, no i would not make up kits as i have had a couple bad deals with shipping people items and then having them not pay, one of them is in your area of NC but it sure is not you, as to the thickness of the tubing, i used 1/8 tubing and if you use al. you will have to go to 1/4 as the steel is twice the strength of al, and as there are no real quick sharp bends and you take it slow and easy you will not get any kinks, | ||
| Jim Wilke (Jim Bob) (Pd41044039)
Registered Member Username: Pd41044039 Post Number: 336 Registered: 2-2001 Posted From: 69.77.156.190 Rating: N/A |
I understand the deadbeats, Mel. Why not have them send the money first? If they won't send the $$, then they can pay the COD fee. | ||
| Gus Causbie (Gusc)
Registered Member Username: Gusc Post Number: 751 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 208.54.200.90 Rating: N/A |
Jim, Some time back I changed my 4104 original engine cover braces to two old gas struts from my '88 Dodge minivan. They are a perfect fit and with a couple of inches offset at the top connection the struts not only lift the tailgate they also hold it closed. I removed the old latch altogether. I posted this all to one of the boards, don't remember which one. I'll gladly send you the info and some photos if you like. | ||
| Jim Wilke (Jim Bob) (Pd41044039)
Registered Member Username: Pd41044039 Post Number: 341 Registered: 2-2001 Posted From: 216.199.229.62 Rating: N/A |
Gus, I'm not unhappy with the engine door or it's braces. It's just that the door fream is all rusted out. I don't really have time to fabricate a new frame. | ||
| Mel La Plante (Mel_4104)
Registered Member Username: Mel_4104 Post Number: 89 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 205.250.177.39 Rating: N/A |
one thing that i forgot to tell you is if the skin on your tail gate is no good and has corr. holes in it just find a couple tail gates off GM transits and use that as the spacing of the waves is the same as on the passanger coaches. the good side of that is you get to use the tail lite and turn tile moulded brackets as they are 7 " and you can use the big LEDs in place of the 3 1/2" which sure makes a differance. the reason that you need 2 transit tail gates is to get enough material. also while you are at the transit bus get sum of the moulding from the front door and place that on the bottom of the new tail gate which makes it more dressed up and is mice to hit your head on rather than steel tubing. Scott, Jim, Gus or any of the rest of you fellows that want just call me on the phone as i posted my phone # on a post above. | ||
| john w. roan (Chessie4905)
Registered Member Username: Chessie4905 Post Number: 1222 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 71.58.110.9  Rating: N/A |
One option for you to consider is to use a complete tailgate off a 4106. That's what is on mine and the lights look MUCH better than a 4104. | ||
| Gus Causbie (Gusc)
Registered Member Username: Gusc Post Number: 752 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 208.54.200.110 Rating: N/A |
Jim, I wasn't talking about the frame. You mentioned that you had to use rubber tie downs. My system both raises the door and holds it closed with no need for latches or getting a hernia lifting the door. That thing was just too heavy for me and now it pops right up on its own. | ||
| marvin pack (Gomer)
Registered Member Username: Gomer Post Number: 312 Registered: 3-2007 Posted From: 71.55.193.233 Rating: N/A |
Gus: I would like to have the info on the door so I may be able to install struts on mine. My e-mail is mcpacrats@embarqmail.com. Many thanks to you. gomer | ||
| Tom Caffrey (Pvcces)
Registered Member Username: Pvcces Post Number: 1232 Registered: 5-2001 Posted From: 65.74.65.209 Rating: N/A |
Gus, would you post some details about the mounting of the gas struts on your tailgate? Your setup appeals to me. Thanks. Tom Caffrey PD4106-2576 Suncatcher Ketchikan, Alaska | ||
| Gus Causbie (Gusc)
Registered Member Username: Gusc Post Number: 754 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 208.54.200.200 Rating: N/A |
Gomer and Tom, Your emails are on the way. | ||
| Mel La Plante (Mel_4104)
Registered Member Username: Mel_4104 Post Number: 92 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 216.232.55.174 Rating: N/A |
when using gas filled struts on your engine or bay doors to help open and hold them open i go one step further and add a piece of pipe on the rod end.this pipe is just bigger than the body of the strut and it has to be long enough to reach from the body of the strut passed the mounting bolt at the rod end,as you have to dill a hole though the pipe at a lengh just slightly shorter that the rod, now cut out a piece a piece from the rod end about 1" long but only half way through the pipe and the cut down the pipe to removthis little piece being sure that there is a hole in the center of the long piece of pipe to be able to put the bolt through that holds the strut to the door, make sure that this hole is bigger than the dia. of the bolt as this is the pivot point for the pipe. when installed the weight of the pipe when the door is opened wide open the pipe falls on to the rod and will hold the door open as a safty catch. when you want to close the door just center the pipe around the strut body and lower the door. i have had them on for over 15 years and never replace a air strut without it. | ||
| marvin pack (Gomer)
Registered Member Username: Gomer Post Number: 314 Registered: 3-2007 Posted From: 71.55.193.233 Rating: N/A |
Gus GOT IT and wow that looks nice. I might become a little, well you know what I mean. But gosh thanks a bunch | ||
| Tom Caffrey (Pvcces)
Registered Member Username: Pvcces Post Number: 1233 Registered: 5-2001 Posted From: 65.74.65.209 Rating: N/A |
Thanks, Gus and Mel. You guys are great! I got your email, Gus. Tom Caffrey PD4106-2576 Suncatcher Ketchikan, Alaska | ||
| Gus Causbie (Gusc)
Registered Member Username: Gusc Post Number: 755 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 208.54.200.210 Rating: N/A |
Mel, There is almost no chance two struts will fail at exactly the same time. One of the struts I used will almost raise the door alone but one will not hold up my minivan hatch alone. I used two because I had them already and to keep the door from twisting. I seriously doubt that I will ever have to replace either of them. I have two almost identical minivans and I have to replace one of those about every two years. So, I have an endless supply of these struts! This door works more effortlessly than any vehicle I own. The icing on the cake is that they also keep the door tightly closed. I was really amazed at my good luck because I had no idea if the struts would work when I started the job. I guessed that at the least I would have to buy new struts so I decided to use the old ones just to see if they would fit. | ||
| Mel La Plante (Mel_4104)
Registered Member Username: Mel_4104 Post Number: 93 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 154.5.117.37 Rating: N/A |
Gus have you ever heard of Murffies Law?it states that--- if it cannot happen it will when least expected. this is what happened too me down in AZ. i had opened the tailgate and left it open a few days in the hot sun, when i came back it was down and not thinking i just lifted it up and bent over to look at the starter and wham right on my back i got hit with that damed tailgate that was never supposed to come down. both struts had failed, why i do not know but the next thing i did was put those safty pipes on the struts and i have not been hit with it coming down again. just for the heck of it can you tell me why when you have these struts on your mini van you have to replace one every two years but when you put them on your 4104 the will last a life time. | ||
| Gus Causbie (Gusc)
Registered Member Username: Gusc Post Number: 760 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 208.54.200.69 Rating: N/A |
Mel, Seems that your solution is not to leave the door open in the hot sun. I probably could have guessed at the time that if the door was down it probably wouldn't stay up when you opened it again!! My best guess on the used struts is that the steel minivan hatch with glass is much, much heavier than the Al engine door and that Chrysler made the struts just strong enough for two to hold up the hatch but no more. It won't fall with one bad strut but it won't open all the way either. Therefore the struts are overkill for the Al engine door, probably by a factor of 2 or three. I say this because one will almost hold the door up alone. It takes a bit of strength for me to open the door the first few inches and quite a bit to push it down until it is about half way. | ||
| L James Jones Jr (Jamo)
Registered Member Username: Jamo Post Number: 51 Registered: 11-2007 Posted From: 74.79.238.147  Rating: N/A |
Gus, Would you mind sending that info my way also?? I'll be reworking the back door on my 4104 this winter & I might as well do it right, eh?? Thanks much...Jamo jrjones@twcny.rr.com | ||
| Gus Causbie (Gusc)
Registered Member Username: Gusc Post Number: 763 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 208.54.200.67 Rating: N/A |
Jamo, It's on the way. |
