| Author |
Message |
Don in WA (67.227.198.122)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, July 15, 2002 - 3:32 pm: | |
Found these interesting "mini splits". Designed like household air/heat pumps but operate (some models) on 120v. Would be much easier than trying to duct air where you want it. Could put the cooling unit(s) where you want without causing headroom problems. Maybe one above the windshield and another in the rear each blowing toward the middle of the coach. Pretty compact and not to bad of EER. The Hitachi seems to have the best EER and also heats. 12k BTU on 1150 watts, not bad. Very good price also. Compressor unit shoud not be to hard to install in the bus air compartment or where ever you want it. What do you think? |
johnwood (206.252.250.74)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, July 15, 2002 - 3:58 pm: | |
Several mfg's make multiple evap units with one condensing unit having several compresors. Space saving for the bay? Would not worry too much about EER's as they are all close and much improved over the rooftop units. Also make evaps that would fit in a dropped ceiling and are ductable. Could have a setup like the S&S units with multiple delivery points and ducted thru the space between ceiling and roof.
You in spokane? |
Don in WA (67.227.198.13)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, July 15, 2002 - 4:11 pm: | |
Forgot the link.
http://genieac.com/MINISPLITSALL.htm |
Ace (24.28.44.126)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, July 15, 2002 - 5:35 pm: | |
I have a 2 similar units installed in our Eagle made by Sanyo. The rear unit has heat strip which is more than enough to run you back home. The other unit works two wall units up forward of the bathroom. They cool only! The great thing I have encountered with these is, the service! They stood behind the one problem I had when it was way out of warranty without any argument! They replaced the compressor that locked up due to too much heat which was caused by not being installed in properly ventilated area! It needs to air passing thru it. Going down the road,it worked fine but sitting still, it got too hot! It has been on for about 1 year now non stop without a glitch!
VERY cold units, Quiet, 2 front units are remote controlled and I don't miss the space they took up in the bay!
Ace |
Don in Wa (67.227.213.162)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, July 15, 2002 - 6:31 pm: | |
Johnwood, I live about 30 miles south of Spokane. Are you near? |
ktrout01 (207.190.253.82)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, July 16, 2002 - 7:58 am: | |
Anyone ever used the larger Hitachi unit ? RAS-12UH/RAC-12UHV ? It looks like it would do the job and I could hang the interior unit on the inside wall of the bedroom backing up to the bathroom. With another unit for the front part of the coach it would still be more cost effective than one large basement unit and I wouldn't have to run ductwork or worry about the compressor's start up current draw. hmmmmm, another thing to think about. Is this a great hobby or what ?! |
Ace (24.28.44.126)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, July 16, 2002 - 8:15 am: | |
ktrout01, the Hitachi is very similar to the Sanyo. It is a ductless system and the 2 inside unit's up front of the bus mount on the wall. The unit in the rear is floor mounted against the wall and takes up very little room! The draw is minimal but the cooling is maximum. I like mine very much! More people should look into these for cooling and heating over central! Roof airs which are loud just don't do enough for me but I live in Florida year round! They might be ok for a quick cool down but thats about it! Our a/c has been on for about 1 year now non stop as we convert our bus! It's a joy to just go out and work in a cool bus or just kick back and watch some tube!
Ace |
FAST FRED (63.215.229.119)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, July 16, 2002 - 8:26 am: | |
The standard for split systems is CRUSAIR .
These are designed for vehicles and have been a standard in the Marine industry , and were the std. way Custom Coach ect , did conversions from the late 50's, thru today.
The downside is that the units are well built to take the bouncing and bashing in any vehicle , that and limited production make them a bit pricy.
The tubing MUST be well protedted from damage , and secured very well , as copper tubing DOES work harden & crack .Like single strand house wire.
A second downside for every split system is that due to the cost , when they finally crap out , the need to be repaired , rather than just tossed like carbunkles or an RV basement unit.
All that reinforced and secured tubing is hard to replace too.
The splits DO have a very low interior noise level , although extra holes for drain tubes to carry off the moisture are required.
Biggest advantage is no ducts or return ducts need to be built in, and true Zone controll is easy, although in an 8X40 box not usually needed when cooling.
They can take up loads of precious wall space , although Crusair are designed to be built into a closet or furnature.
FAST FRED |
johnwood (206.252.250.240)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, July 16, 2002 - 11:40 am: | |
Still have not seen any discussion on the use of the minisplits that have one condensing unit and multiple evaporator units. I think this would be the next best choice after a high static (1.5") basement unit with 2" dia. ducts.
FF; Most a/c units as well as domestic refers are throwaways once the warranty is up. If they crap out; toss em! I have been in the hvac&r business for a long time and came to the conclusion that you almost cannot find qualified service personnel for small critically balanced systems. Plus the cost of service and parts for equipment that is built to last the length of the warranty leads me to reccommend replacement of entire unit rather than repair. Sounds like heresy, but it is the truth.
Don; I'm fairly close in kalispell |
Matt (209.173.122.84)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, July 16, 2002 - 9:20 pm: | |
Are these units completely self contained. If so
one may work good up front to cool the driver and
pass. |
jmaxwell (66.42.92.17)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, July 17, 2002 - 1:56 am: | |
Johnwood: U are right on about this stuff being throwaway. The quality of Coleman and Dometic roof junk is poor at best. As for cruise-air, I use to work on many of them in the late 70's and early 80's before I retired, and they are not exactly great either. Poor air delivery and redundant safeties that quite frankly were good for little more than padding my pocket replacing them. MH manufacturers always seemed to find a place to tuck them away, especially the condensing units, that provided poor air supply. The only problem I see w/ the Hitachi units after studying the specs, is the width of the units. U certainly won't beat the price or the EER with rooftops or basement unit, which are also generally a pain in the --- and more often than not, don't work all that good, not to mention the power problems with them. I am currently in the floor plan drawing stage of my new conversion and I am looking at revisions for placing these instead of low profile rooftops. Thnks Don for the lead. |
Don in WA (67.227.184.124)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, July 17, 2002 - 3:11 am: | |
I was more interested in staying with the 115V units. The multi splits that I've seen are all 230V. There may be many more units out there that I have not found. If you have a 230V setup they sound like a really cool way to go. (sorry)
I plan to stay with 115V in my next bus. Too many small RV parks without 230V. Not going full electric. Will still use that dreaded propane for refer, cooking ect. lol
The Hitachi 12k BTU/1150 watt is the highest output/eer 115V unit I have found. At $470 without tubing it seems a real buy.
I used to do some sealed system repair and still have the equipment so installation/maintenance should be no great problem. At that price two separate units would give a backup to get home on and resonable replacement costs but at the added cost of the space needed for another compressor/condenser. Don't know if the units are available separately but that would make major repair simple/cost effective, pull the bad unit and slip in a complete one. Good warrantee also. |
Doug Dickinson (Dougd470) (65.161.188.9)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, July 17, 2002 - 9:00 am: | |
I too like the idea of the split units. I have seen them in a house before and was quite impressed. I would like to learn more about them. Is there a possible ducted unit where I can send cold air where I want to? How about the ducting of the condenser unit or at least making sure there is adequate air flow? I would be somewhat worried since I am loooking at 3 units probably in a MC9 (but I am open to suggestions). |
Jack Conrad (Jackconrad) (204.193.117.66)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, July 17, 2002 - 10:23 am: | |
I can somewhat direct the air where I want it with our basement AC. We have a 16" x 3" supply duct that runs almost the entire length of the bus in the ceiling. There are 5 vents spaced along this duct. I close rear vents when on the road, pushing most of the Ac towards the front. Return in located in ceiling in center of the bus. Hope this helps, Jack |
George Myers (12.85.14.55)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, July 17, 2002 - 9:02 pm: | |
I had a short discussion last week end at the Flx rally with the former Sales Manager at Custom Coach who is now with Marathon, He reiterated what he had told me a couple years ago. That is that Custom Coach, and now Marathon, are switching to ducted roof mounted air conditioners. Cost and service are the main reason. One can replace the roof airs for less than the cost of service on the split units that Custom Coach made, or any of the commercial units. The Custom Coach he had at the Flx rally 4, and again 2, years ago (same unit) had roof airs as did the 45 foot Marathon Prevost he was driving this year. I have photos to prove it. |
Doug Dickinson (Dougd470) (65.161.188.9)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, July 18, 2002 - 9:29 am: | |
Ducted roof air? I am not familiar with it (meaning I haven't seen it in person). Can you point me to some vendors? From a practical standpoint, not having to run ducts from the basement up makes sense. I do NOT (sorry for shouting) want to raise the roof. I would prefer to keep the conversion on the simple side so roof air is appealing, but I would prefer to keep the noise down if I can.
As always, I am open to ideas, and this is certainly the place for them! |
Jim Ashworth (Jimnh) (172.134.170.84)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, July 18, 2002 - 1:24 pm: | |
These are standard roof air units with a different interior air distribution box. The ductwork is obviously supplied by the converter/manufacturer. It doesn't have to be any more than 2" deep so unless the ceiling is really close for you now, you probably won't have to raise the roof. I have done this in two conversions and really like it for the same reasons Marathon and Custom Coach do.
Jim |
Mike T (206.170.33.57)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, July 18, 2002 - 2:28 pm: | |
I just installed an "Air-V" unit that is ducted. It is made by Carrier. I am running ducting through the top of my kitchen cabs so I don't lose headroom. They are small ducts, 20 sq in or so so not too much cab space lost. I like the unit. I'm not a quality expert on this equipment but it works for me. |
George Myers (12.85.0.67)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, July 18, 2002 - 6:39 pm: | |
I think all manufacturers of roof airs have an air box (the part inside the coach) that is set up to blow into ducts. The rest of the unit is the same as the regular version.
My roof mounts did not come with the ducted box, so I'm making new air boxes and control panels for my standard roof airs. This is not a very big project. My ducts will be rectangular, 1.5 feet wide and 4 inches high, and run the length of the coach. They are shallower near the outside edge because of the curve in the roof. There is one on each side with 10 registers on each. This gives me a flat ceiling to fit my cabinets to. I do have a raised roof. |
Don in WA (67.227.133.196)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, July 18, 2002 - 10:48 pm: | |
My biggest problem with roof air is that they are so loud, both inside and outside. Like the cleaner lines of a coach without a bunch of airs on top too. Besides if I don't have a bunch of roof airs, I will have more room for multiple sat dishs, hot tub, veranda with bar ect. hehe
I agree that installation and replacement could not get any easier than with roof air. Maybe the ducted versions would help cut the interior sound levels. Not sure that the fans are up to to much duct work.
All I know for sure is that a lot of it comes back to how well insulated the shell is. If nothing else, buying our first bus converted has taught me that it is almost impossible to overcome a poorly insulated bus both for heat/cooling and for noise. |
Don KS/TX (64.24.4.99)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, July 19, 2002 - 6:50 am: | |
Although I loved the quick and easy roof airs, and do not mind the looks, the noise when full timing is bad. We often chose to just not even turn them on to avoid the noise.
Ducting can work, our friends with a new Bounder have the ducts inside, and the airs are quiet and efficient. That was not a choice for me, since I did not raise the roof though. |
whistler (142.173.61.224)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, July 22, 2002 - 1:11 am: | |
Please check out the website of Walker Coach Conversion in PA, they have an innovative design for ducted roof air system which to me is a better alternative to roof-top version and does not occupy precious bay cargo room like basement air system does! |