| Author | Message | ||
| Douglas Tappan (Dougthebonifiedbusnut)
Registered Member Username: Dougthebonifiedbusnut Post Number: 67 Registered: 10-2004 Posted From: 75.69.223.64  Rating: N/A |
Hey All, Because of the limited space in my Crown I want to use a propane fired Tankless water heater. Can anyone give some experiance and advice on availability and the best units?As always thanks in advance. | ||
| Tom Caffrey (Pvcces)
Registered Member Username: Pvcces Post Number: 1236 Registered: 5-2001 Posted From: 65.74.65.209 Rating: N/A |
Doug, look carefully at intake air and exhaust requirements. Also, consider the rated flow of the heater and the protection needed in freezing weather. In many cases, the cure is worse than the ailment. We removed a friend's Bosch heater because there were too many problems associated with using it. For what it's worth. Tom Caffrey PD4106-2576 Suncatcher Ketchikan, Alaska | ||
| Gus Causbie (Gusc)
Registered Member Username: Gusc Post Number: 757 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 208.54.200.56 Rating: N/A |
Doug, I wanted to use one in my house but found that my LP lines were too small, and, as Tom said, the exhaust requirements are huge. These things produce a very large amount of heat in a very short time. I would guess that the average RV 6 gal heater is smaller than an instant heater and relatively simple to install. Probably a lot less expensive too. You can get larger ones but 6 gal is more than the two of use ever need. | ||
| FAST FRED (Fast_fred)
Registered Member Username: Fast_fred Post Number: 518 Registered: 10-2006 Posted From: 66.90.229.150 Rating: N/A |
And if your in a campground you can use the 115V power to run the RV unit. The big advantage of the Bosch or Paloma is the ability to heat LOTS of water fast. Bathtub or washing machine aboard? FF | ||
| Tom Christman (Tchristman)
Registered Member Username: Tchristman Post Number: 32 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 66.218.33.156 Rating: N/A |
I have two 10gal elec water heaters from Home Depot-one plumbed into the next with the final one wired through the inverter for hot water going down the road. I realize that you don't have much space-I don't either using a transit bus. I raised my rear bed over the wheel wells (like you have) and built a platform on top of the wheel wells so the bed is properly spaced above the platform. This leaves alot of room under the queen bed. I have mounted my 130gal water tank, 2-10gal water heaters, the hot and cold water manifold ball valves, two water pumps, and the water solenoid for my radiator misters under the bed. Just lift up on the bed to turn on the valve to fill the water tank, and since the water tank is mounted on the front of the bed, I have cut slits in the wood so you can see the water level with a halogen hockey puck light mounted above the tank. Very convenient, the water system is totally inside, so no freezing, and in 12 years of using the water heaters, zero problems-I don't think anyone can say that about their propane or Diesel fired water heater systems. Plus if the heating element goes out, it is a simple $15.00 replacement element. Good Luck, TomC | ||
| George M. Todd (George_mc6)
Registered Member Username: George_mc6 Post Number: 603 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 207.231.75.253 Rating: N/A |
Tankless water heaters do their thing by starting instantly when they see water flow, and then putting a LOT of heat into the small amount of water passing through them. This means that you will have to plumb (and regulate) for a MINIMUM propane flow of 100,000BTU. Several brands come with a concentric vent kit, which is about 4 inches in outside diameter. This supplies all of the reqired venting, and will allow the unit to be installed three or four feet from a side wall. I do not know if there is still a pilot model available, all of the larger models that I am familiar with require 120VAC for the control system. If you choose to go this way, my personal reccomendation, as a heating and A/C contractor who has installed about 15 of them so far, is a Rinnai. All of them that I have installed have worked perfectly, some approaching 4 years of use. There is a post on another subject, talking about the removal of one of the brands mentioned immediately above, because of problems. A friend and fellow contractor does warranty work for this company, and to quote him, he is "busy." (A "water planet" brand, if you get my drift, is made by the aforementioned company also.) Be prepared to pay about $1150.00 (contractor's price) for a 199,000BTU unit, I don't put the samller sizes in houses. HTH, George | ||
| Moe Hollow (Moehollow)
Registered Member Username: Moehollow Post Number: 74 Registered: 12-2007 Posted From: 71.102.20.26 Rating: N/A |
I had a Paloma in a past bus that worked great. I do not remember the specs. It was fed with a 3/8 copper line. Definite has less flow, but flows forever. | ||
| Stephen Fessenden (Sffess)
Registered Member Username: Sffess Post Number: 748 Registered: 1-2002 Posted From: 66.38.120.219 Rating: N/A |
I saw an RV tankless hot water heater on Ebay a while back that said it had a Carbon Monoxide monitor/shutdown and was ventless. VENTLESS??? Also used a flashlight battery for ignition. | ||
| Chuck Newman (Chuck_newman)
Registered Member Username: Chuck_newman Post Number: 272 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 76.246.254.144 Rating: N/A |
Doug, Check out the Precision Temp link below. The RV-500 is a direct replacement for commercial RV HWHs. It's pricey. The last number I saw was $1K a few years ago. I got a great deal on a Suburban 10 gal LPG a few years ago. Now wish I had done same as Tom Christman. http://www.precisiontemp.com/pt_rvmd_rv500.html | ||
| Keith Wood (Ft6)
Registered Member Username: Ft6 Post Number: 51 Registered: 8-2008 Posted From: 71.202.200.113 Rating: N/A |
I noticed that a Paloma unit I checked out is "not for use in manufactured housing" -- any idea why? The unit was at a good price and would do what I need (enough for a washing machine) | ||
| Cindy and John (Cindyandjohn)
Registered Member Username: Cindyandjohn Post Number: 91 Registered: 1-2007 Posted From: 70.15.52.58 Rating: N/A |
FWIW: I installed the Paloma that says not to put it in a RV or Manufactured home... My Bad! It works great, we enjoy the endless hot water, and i havent had any problems - it is only installed for one season but was used quite often... I vented the exhaust out the side of my Eagle in what I beleive was the auxiliary fuel tank fill, which wasn't used... If anyone wants more info please email me direct. john.conti@hotmail.com i can discuss it more. I did have to experiment with the LP lines and regulators until it finally worked. John | ||
| George M. Todd (George_mc6)
Registered Member Username: George_mc6 Post Number: 607 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 207.231.75.253 Rating: N/A |
Water heaters and furnaces made for manufactured housing have a concentric vent arrangement where the combustion air is supplied to the unit from the roof thru the outside pipe of the vent system, while the exhaust goes out thru the inside pipe. This keeps the pipe cool, and provides the necessary combustion air, without having to draw it from an interior room in a tightly sealed house. (Which doesn't work well.) G | ||
| john degemis (Degemis)
Registered Member Username: Degemis Post Number: 29 Registered: 3-2008 Posted From: 68.113.38.16  Rating: N/A |
Just found on Ebay I have one and love it 12 gal. Electric and propane. With shipping is at around $200 thats around what I paid it may go up but You can offten get one for around $200 to $250 This one is missing some parts. You can do a search on Ebay and save it so when one list you get a e-mail. SUBURBAN WATER HEATER RV CAMPER TRAILER 12 GAL SW12DEL http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=150305671163&sspagename=STRK %3AMEWAX%3AIT&viewitem= (Message edited by degemis on November 02, 2008) | ||
| Ednj (Ednj)
Registered Member Username: Ednj Post Number: 204 Registered: 3-2003 Posted From: 67.85.237.82  Rating: N/A |
Doug said = Because of the limited space in my Crown > > Doug, Do yourself a favor and get a Proheat type unit that will do everything for you and not take up space. Coach heat , engine heat, Hot water, bay heat, ect. | ||
| R.C.Bishop (Chuckllb)
Registered Member Username: Chuckllb Post Number: 368 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 75.210.16.93 Rating: N/A |
Doug...as you know, I too have a Crown. I doubt the space is limited more than any other coach. Still have x number of Sq. Ft. to work around. I placed mine under a cabinet; over which is a pretty large storage cabinet, with the Micro Wave above that. It is right over the mid bay on the curb side. Used a Force 10 11 gallon, plumbed into the engine/coolant lines. Free hot water after driving and use the Generator for additional heat if necessary: from dead cold it is good for shower, dishes, etc in about a half hour to 45 minutes. Enough time to charge batteries etc, etc. I considered a tankless, but for reasons listed above, decided against it. FWIW  RCB | ||
| Douglas Tappan (Dougthebonifiedbusnut)
Registered Member Username: Dougthebonifiedbusnut Post Number: 68 Registered: 10-2004 Posted From: 75.69.223.64 Rating: N/A |
Hey All, OMG I'm reading all this great info when it occures to me that I have a big area right under the bed to put a normal Electric heater! You guys are "The Best and Brightest"!- This problem solved! | ||
| FAST FRED (Fast_fred)
Registered Member Username: Fast_fred Post Number: 519 Registered: 10-2006 Posted From: 66.90.229.103 Rating: N/A |
"I have a big area right under the bed to put a normal Electric heater!" While there cheaper , most posts show folks prefer a marine unit. Sure some do it to be able to co generate , use the noisemaker or engine or boiler to provide hot water. What gets frequently parsimonius (cheap)bus nuts to pay the big bucks for a marine unit? Lazyness ! The house units will burn out the eliment if powered with out water. The better marine units have an overheat cut off that is simply reset should the unit be operated with out water. Do it your way, FF | ||
| John Peterson (Hafftrack)
Registered Member Username: Hafftrack Post Number: 6 Registered: 10-2006 Posted From: 209.183.51.44 Rating: N/A |
I have been using a thankless water heater for two years. It is a Bausch, I believe 625. I located the water heater underneath the driver's side radiator. It was a tight fit. I don't know if I would put it in there again. I ran the ventilation right in front of the radiator intake. As it turns out, this was not the best location. The radiator intake works like a funnel. And if you have any wind blowing the fire goes out. Other than that I would not use any other water heating system, unless it was the wabco. So far I've only had the bus in Arizona and Texas. Both of these Fair-weather places. I have not been concerned with freezing, although I did put a rope light. Underneath the heater just for peace of mind. Doug, I noticed you also asked questions about air-conditioning. I am using mini split systems one is located right in front over the top of the windshield. The other is in the back right-center off the back window. The front one is a 1200 BTU, and it is a heat pump. They run on 115 volts 11 amps. The back is 900 BTU heat pump. It is located right over the bed. The systems worked well together in Houston in July, I can drop in temperature to 68, and this is running only 30 amps system. I have been living in this bus full-time for three years, started the conversion in May of 2005. And it feels like it's going to be a long journey. But, that's why they call us. Busnuts http://www.ductlesshvacsupply.com/ Please feel free to contact me. I read this board a lot, but I do not post very much. And like you say, the knowledge on this board is priceless | ||
| Harmer (Dave_4104_in_victoria)
Registered Member Username: Dave_4104_in_victoria Post Number: 27 Registered: 2-2007 Posted From: 24.64.223.203 Rating: N/A |
Dave here, I have had my W125 bosch tankless/ventless in my bus for about 5 years or so now with only minor issues. When it says ventless, it generally means can be used in a closed area, IE closet etc. Although you still need to have air replacement. Mine states in the instructions, not to be used for heating system with the caveat that it is not vented, if you vent it, it will heat water until you run out of propane. I installed another bosch tankless in brother in laws 4106 a number of years ago, they have full timed in their's with no issues. We both have fantastic fans mounted within apprx 30 inches of the vent outlet. The temperature control comes on when heat is present. This takes care of air replacement. We are in the process of mounting another W125 non vented model in a friends 4104 one of these days. This one actually has a tin shroud made which we will plumb in to vent out behind the fridge wall. Depending on personal preference for people we like ours and i like that it is mounted inside the coach rather than in the bay, we can turn on and off as needed or adjust temp. I think it is important to remember for all of us that propane appliances use oxygen. The rule is ONE SQUARE INCH OF FRESH AIR FOR EVERY 1000 BTU's. Yes this also applies to stoves, ovens, propane flame or catalytic heat or cooking sources. Cheers | ||
| Harmer (Dave_4104_in_victoria)
Registered Member Username: Dave_4104_in_victoria Post Number: 28 Registered: 2-2007 Posted From: 24.64.223.203 Rating: N/A |
ohh almost forgot, one of the minor issues we ran into with paloma on another friends bus was cycling. this was taken care of by getting bigger pump. One pump is aqua jet if i recall 5.7gpm and the one i am now using is Sureflow variable 4.3gpm or so. Seems some pumps on/off switches get confused by the tankless due to flow being restricted when water is heating, this causes the pump to shut down and then start and causes the heater to allow flow and then not, IE cycling of the pump. The variable pumps allow the lower flows when the thermostat is restricting water. Hope this helps. Dave out |