| Author | Message | ||
| Jim Bruneau (Rockymtnbus) (66.113.28.177)
Rating: N/A |
I used to drive Charter coaches for several years back in the 70's, various GM's and Flxible's.... Now I'm looking into the purchase of a coach-motorhome. Based on the above previous driving experience, and my pocketbook, I'm interested in Eagle 05 models, or MCI MC-7 models already converted. Anyone have any opinions on these models, such as parts availability, powertrain options to consider, cost of operation, etc?? Any info would be appreciated. Thanks. | ||
| David Pinson (63.78.155.173)
Rating: N/A |
Hey Jim...We have an eagle 05/10 built in 1975. It has taken us 3 years to finish but now we are about ready to use it...I'm partial to eagles...the ride is smooth and even....be sure to check the braking system before buying...our bus sat idle while we were converting it so as we started to use it ....the parking brake would not release properly...so after a clutch replacement and a new air dryer and cable air releases for 4 tanks...I think we are ready to roll....To me, eagles are a thing of beauty....MCI's a little less scenic....(but thousands of them on the road daily surely says something positive about MCI's). | ||
| Philip Curtis (205.188.199.154)
Rating: N/A |
What a loaded question. If you like them pretty and high maintanence cost get the Eagle.If you like them pretty enough and less costly to maintane the MCI.All this is worth two cents if you like the big GMCs.Have fun. | ||
| Richard Bowyer (Drivingmisslazy) (66.190.119.82)
Rating: N/A |
I have to totally disagree about the high maintenance cost of an Eagle. I have had mine for about 15 years, and the overall maintenance has been considerably less than what I had on several different motor homes. The maintenance costs such as oil and filter changes, lubes and other normal maintenance items are items that you have with any motorhome type vehicle. I really can not understand what would cost more on an Eagle than on an MCI or GM. Richard | ||
| AKROM (65.134.220.207) Rating: N/A |
Try $12,000.00 for a new set of torsilastics (installed) for a starter. | ||
| FAST FRED (63.208.83.68) Rating: N/A |
The hassle with any Eagle is the frame keeps disolving , I think even if garage kept. The extra worrys and expense of a frame inspection/rebuild , plus the insane cost of suspension parts , and the heavy stock weight has taken them from MY list if usefull conversion coaches. However , if your planning on 4 slideouts , a roof observation post , with a raised roof , you will be modifing & replacing so much of the birdcage it won't matter. There were 2 axle Eagles that were a bit lighter , but may not be legal on any but special town roads. Try for an MCI , if slideouts ect are not for you. FAST FRED | ||
| Richard Bowyer (Drivingmisslazy) (66.190.119.82)
Rating: N/A |
My bus is 22 years old and I have had no problem with my torsalastics and I do not know anyone in the Eagles group that has. I am not saying that it could not happen, but with the amount of adjustment available, plus the capability of re-indexing them if necessary, it seems like a very long shot possibility at the worst. Neither have I had any problem with the frame rusting away. Are the problems you mention from actual experience or do you have specific knowledge of these problems, or is this just something that you have read or heard? Richard | ||
| Alan Baker (64.12.104.47)
Rating: N/A |
Frame rust has not been any more of a problem problem on Eagles than any other bus after 1980. Torsalastic suspension will out last many many air bags and are adjustable. Eagles are easily modified and have a superior ride. A rear break can, something that can fail on any coach at any time will run you around 100 bucks on an Eagle. Try a grand on a MCI. And of course MCI engineered probably the worst cooling system possible. You will be paying for that forever. Coaches are very reasonable at the moment. Don't buy a Model 5 or a MCI 7. Go for a Model 10 or a MCI 8 or 9. Alan Baker Earthship Enterprise Model 10 EAGLE | ||
| Richard Bowyer (Drivingmisslazy) (66.190.119.82)
Rating: N/A |
Yea, and whoever heard of replacing a complete set of torsalistics? If one does happen to go bad, as all mechanical things can, only the bad one would be replaced. If one air bag goes bad, I think it is fairly common practice to replace them all, due to the natural aging process of the bags. Richard | ||
| Jim Bruneau (Rockymtnbus) (66.113.28.98)
Rating: N/A |
Alan Baker- I'm interested in your comment about the poor MCI cooling system--what's the problem with them?? Also a question for all-- Being as I'm in the mountains, what is the power difference between a DD 8V71 N , and a DD 6V92 T ? I see a lot of coaches out there with either... | ||
| jmaxwell (66.42.92.18) Rating: N/A |
Gentlemen: All this bickering about which is best seems a little on the opinionated side. It is a fact that Eagle OEM type parts are expensive and hard (er) to come by than MCI (Since MCI has a very extensive parts operation in place and Eagle doesn't even exist anymore) End of that bickering! As to the ride, Eagles porpoise and MCIs sway side to side, it's the nature of the particular beast. Both of them have been traditionally underpowered as stock production models. MCI stuck w/ the 8v71 until DD would not make them for them anymore and then switched primarily to the 6v92 instead of the 8v92. Eagle was putting 320hp 6v92's in 45' ers when they went out of business. It all comes down to preference and I often wonder why people limit their options on buses when there are so many makes available? However, Eagle owners seem to be a different breed than MCI owners. Eagles lend themselves to the conversion process nicely and Eagle owners seem to not mind building a bus before they do a conversion. On the other hand, how many MCI's do u see that are plywood skinned inside over the stock windows? A lot! Just IMHO.(I'm neutral here, since I drive a Grumman and am doing a Neoplan, which IMHO is better than either an Eagle or an MCI). | ||
| Alan Baker (64.12.104.152)
Rating: N/A |
Jim, I'm not an MCI man. I currently own a converted Eagle, it has a puny silver 6v92 turbo hooked to an Allison 740 automatic. I also have a 10" roof raise and every conceivable motorhome amenity. Prior to that we had a GM '06 that we converted in 1980. My vast experience with MCI's comes from listining in on the little gang of MCI owners that always go off by them selves at rallies. It seems that up until the early 90's the rads were undersized, the pully too small and the shrouding which is most important if you have an undersized situation falls apart. Look at MCI's going down the road and observe the number that have Dumbo ears on the air intakes. Take a look at all the others and you will never see an air scoop. If you are brave enough to ask an MCI owner if he is having cooling problems, the answer will be "NO". Because, " I have purchaced new cores at $1500 a pop rebuilt the shrouds installed a larger pully on the bottom and smaller one on top and discarded the louvers to allow max air flow to the rads. I have no problems finding Eagle parts and I don't think I am paying a premium for them. Of course Eagles don't need too many. Alan | ||
| FAST FRED (63.215.235.57) Rating: N/A |
Since this board like all the rest give the same OPINIONS on coaches , "I love MINE , but yours has problems", (although its OK as its "Your Way"), the real question is what service will you need your coach to do? Are you in the Montanna Milita and need a coach for a 60 day command post,with out the heat signature from a gen set? Are you a RV type that happily goes from PP (power post)to PP? Or more realistically ,where in the middle are you? Vacation in FLA in summer, in Colorado in winter? The coach conversions prices are determined by condition more than shell brand , but you gota WANT the stuff in the coach to make the purchase worthwile. The equipment selection (& instalation) is far more important than the wallpaper. So, What do you figgure on doing WITH the coach? FAST FRED | ||
| Peter Broadribb (Madbrit) (170.215.38.140)
Rating: N/A |
Very good Alan, whenever I have attended a Rally, and I admit that is not too frequent. I always found that the Prevost guys were the ones to go off together, the Eagles were second and the GM and MCI guys always parked together. To be truthful, I have noted a distinct lack of MCIs at rallies, by far in the minority. I fairness to all, each bus has its pitfalls, the MCI can have cooling problems, which can be easily fixed, the Eagle rusts and that drop box is a fortune to replace if it breaks, and I have known of a few suspension problems in the past due to rust and weight. Don't know about Prevosts, they don't hang their dirty laundry out like the rest of us, the GM seems to have a really good shell but the models with the V drive have a few more problems with repowers, but that's about all. Parts seem to be around for most of the recent models. So ya pays ya money and takes your choice. That's why I went for an MCI, the cooling problem, (I haven't had a problem, but my seals are all good) is fixed with either an additional radiator by the side of the engine, or totally changing it out to be like and Eagle or Prevost. This is a lot cheaper to do and maintain than upgrading to the later style unless you can find good used parts. Peter. | ||
| Jim Bruneau (Rockymtnbus) (208.234.80.196)
Rating: N/A |
Fast Fred- In answer to your question, the motorcoach won't be used for full-timing. Rather, it'll be used on extended weekend camping trips 10-12 times a year, and the annual vacation trips. These trips will require towing my 7500lb cargo trailer of toys around behind the coach back and forth across the Rockies to the Left Coast. (hence-turbocharger required?) Also I'll only be on full hookups about 50% of the trips. (hence- LARGE holding tanks?) To All - I'm sorry to have stirred up such a hornets nest. While looking thru various want ads for already converted coaches, I noticed that the Eagle 05 and the MCI MC7 or 8 seemed to fit the range that my pocketbook could stretch. Sorry- was just interested in hearing of the foibles of each type, to help make my decision. I've heard drivetrain parts for the 35ft GM's are hard to come by now, and the high steer axle loadings on the 4905's scare me to death, so GM's are out of the picture. Thanks all for your comments, and I'd appreciate any other info you might want to pass along. | ||
| Don KS/TX (63.186.16.65)
Rating: N/A |
Darn, I have had a 4905 for 8 years, perfectly legal weight and ratings, and NOW I find out it has a high front axle loading! Then you make it worse by telling me I should have been scared all this time! Ignorance sure is bliss, just gotta figure out which one of us is in bliss. This thread DID bring up some good points, old wives tales, and pure speculation too. The scene never seems to change. | ||
| Jim Bruneau (Rockymtnbus) (208.234.80.196)
Rating: N/A |
Don- After driving for a small 10 coach charter service (30 years ago) and experiencing a front tire blowout at speed, and witnessing several others within the fleet all on 4905's, I'm a little gunshy. Wasn't it GM's refusal to build a 4905 with a third axle that drove Greyhound to buy MCI? Seems funny Greyhound never owned a GM after the 4905 model... | ||
| Jim Ashworth (Jimnh) (172.161.90.142)
Rating: N/A |
There were no GM's at all after the 4905. That's why not only Greyhound didn't buy them- nobody did! 4905 rear axles come closer to being overloaded than the fronts. But it doesn't necessarily have to be. Build 'em lite! Jim | ||
| RJ Long (Rjlong) (24.127.74.29)
Rating: N/A |
Jim - After 25 years in the bus industry, and after reading all the posts regarding your original message, I've decided to add my opinion: ~ Since you're going to be traversing the Rockies and Sierras, you should search for a coach with a turbocharged engine, either an 8V71TA (rare), 6V92TA (fairly common) or an 8V92TA (also rare, but more common than the 71TA). The 6V92TA in most coach applications is rated at 275 HP, but can easily be pumped up to 350 HP by changing the injectors and turbo. ~ An automatic transmission makes the coach much easier and less fatiguing to drive, especially if you venture into LA traffic. Much better to find one already equipped, rather than transplant with it's associated expenses. And if you happen to find a coach with the five-speed HT754 auto, all the better. . . ~ The cost of parts for a bus falls into the same category as fuel mileage - if you're really concerned about it, you cannot afford it. OTOH, because of the fact it is a bus part, chances are it will outlive you in RV service. ~ The argument between the torsilastic ride of the Eagle vs the air suspension used on nearly everything else, will go on forever. Torsilastic tends to give a gentle front-to-back porpoising motion, which is controllable with proper indexing and good shocks. Air suspension gives more of a side-to-side sway movement. Prevost, with their widely spaced rear air bellows, and GMs, with their anti-roll bars, are less prone to this movement. Only you can decide which is right for you. (Side note: The 4905 has the LONGEST wheelbase of any forty-foot production coach, and is even longer than several of the newer forty-five foot units. However, it also has a turning radius that's five feet tighter than an MCI 7, 8 or 9. Translation: Excellent ride with good manoeurverability.) ~ Powertrain parts for the V-drive GMCs is no different than any other coach. Powertrain options, however, are more limited, primarily because of the LH rotation of the engine. But there are a lot of transit buses out there using RH rotating V-drives, so swaps can be done. Some advantages to the V-drive GM is that there is more interior room lengthwise than equal exterior length T-drive coaches, all your more commonly serviced engine items are easy to get to, and there are no drive belts to break. ~ Federal regs basically call for 12K front axle and 20K drive axle maximum weights, regardless of who makes the bus, truck, whatever. So even if you've got an axle rated at 14,500, you still aren't legally supposed to load it over 12K. The fact your experience w/ a front tire blowout at speed in a 4905 has made you gunshy for that model coach is not a condemnation of the 4905 - more than likely it could be traced back to poor tire maintenance by the company's shop. ~ All coaches will suffer cooling problems if not maintained properly, but more importantly, not driven properly. You have to pay attention to what you're doing when you get in situations where the heat will build up. If you don't, you're going to have problems. This is NOT brain surgery, folks. Two-cycle Detroits pull best between 1700 - 1900 rpm on a partial throttle. Keep your foot in it and keep it on the governor, leaving a black smokescreen behind you, and you're just asking for overheating trouble. If you cannot maintain your rpm in the above range w/o getting black smoke, it's time to downshift. It's really just that simple. So what if it takes you three extra minutes to crest the grade - this isn't Indy racing!!! ~ Make sure the coach you buy has a Jake brake on the engine, or have one installed as soon as possible after purchase. The Jake is invaluable for mountain use (and not the speed-bump-sized east coast mountains FF likes to visit, but the Rockies and the Sierras), especially on those long downgrades such as I-80 off Donner Summit west of Reno, NV. Keeps the service brakes cool, so if you need them, they're ready. ~ If you're going to be towing an 8K trailer, obviously the trailer should have brakes. In addition, you should have a HD receiver hitch that is also integrated into the frame rails of the coach, or, if it's an air-suspended coach, into where the rear radius rods attach. This will help spread the load into the chassis, and not just the engine cradle. ~ Greyhound bought MCI back in the early sixties, long before the 4905 came out. The first MCIs used in their USA fleet were 1964 MC-5As. The first forty-foot 4903s didn't come out until April of 1968, about the same time as the MC-7. ~ Because of their lightweight aluminum construction, the 4905s didn't require a third axle, but it was an option throughout the production run for those companies who were operating in states with lower axle weight restrictions. All 4905 third axles were located in the rear baggage bin, they were retractable, and if not needed, removable. ~ Nobody owned any GM highway coaches after the 4905 because GM discontinued highway coach production to concentrate on RTS sales. ~ Since it seems like you're looking for a coach that's already been converted, be aware that there are a LOT of used conversions on the market right now, in all kinds of price ranges. Since it is far easier to BUY a bus than it is to SELL one, it is a buyer's market. Just because someone has a very clean unit that's asking $40K out of your price range doesn't mean that they won't be willing to negotiate. Depends on how desparate they are to sell. ~ Based on the above, IMHO I think you should shop for the NEWEST shell you can find that the conversion was constructed in and that's within your price/negotiating range. You should also look for a coach who's commercial base was in one of the Southwestern states, to minimize corrosion problems. Eagle, GMC, MCI or Prevost are your three main choices of shells, altho there are others, such as Neoplan, Setra and Van Hool, that could be considered. ~ Be sure to bring mama along on your shopping trips. For most of us, we rule the outside, but mama rules the inside, so inside better suit her taste or you'll never hear the end of it. "If mama ain't happy, ain't nobody happy!!" Sorry to write a book, but I hope this helps. RJ PD4106-2784 Fresno CA | ||
| Don KS/TX (63.186.17.198)
Rating: N/A |
Hey, very well said RJ! Only thing I can add is that the 4905 was not a reason for Greyhound to quit GMC, Greyhound never owned a 4905 - ever, even though they had the third axle option, Greyhound still wanted to do something else. Along with a late model shell also comes often the electronic controls that can be a nightmare to the owner mechanic, no big deal if you are a never get your hands dirty type. | ||
| Tom Caffrey (Pvcces) (64.114.233.37)
Rating: N/A |
I really liked your letter, RJ. Very informative. When we were in Hope, BC, on our last trip, I talked to a charter driver about buses while he was waiting for his passengers to come back. He told me that Greyhound would run nothing but MCIs and said that the reason was that Greyhound owned 51% of MCI. Makes sense to me. When I went to Pheonix to pick up our coach a year ago on the Greyhound on an MC-9, when we were an hour out of LA at 4 AM and just into the Grapevine, the bus blew a hose. At first, I just kept hearing this alarm and I wondered what happened. Finally, the bus stopped. Then after a little bit, the driver started it again, creeping along the shoulder. A couple more times and he got it down an off ramp. After we stopped altogether, the driver went and opened up the back end and then confirmed what my nose was already telling me. Antifreeze all over the engine. He went to a phone and called in after telling us we were only an hour out of LA. By 6 AM, another bus showed up and took us in. I don't know if he ran the engine enough to hurt it, but I have little doubt that if it hadn't had the electronics and the computer, the chances would have been much worse for that engine. We were lucky enough to get full alarms on our coach, with delayed automatic shutdown. It's never overheated, but one time while turning while the engine needed a gallon or so of oil, the alarm beeped very briefly. I added oil at the next stop. We're very happy with the setup. For me, how a bus is outfitted is just as important as which make of shell it is. That may make the difference between the Eagle and the MCI or any other brand, especially if you're going to buy an already converted coach. I think electronic controls can be an advantage and a disadvantage. A fellow who services them said that if everything is working right, the computer should do a good job of protecting the engine. But then, he said if a sensor fails, they might do almost anything. Of coarse, the wiring has to be good or the brain will get confused. FWIW Tom Caffrey PD4106-2576 | ||
| Jim Bruneau (Rockymtnbus) (208.234.80.221)
Rating: N/A |
Thanks RJ for all the information. That helps prepare me better for shopping for my "dream" motorcoach. Now I've got my eye on an MC7 listed in the want ads. Seems to have all of the coach bells and whistles- 6V92T, 4spd. Allison with retarder, new style steering, and MC9 upgraded radiators. Now to see if the little lady likes the interior layout.... | ||
| R.C.Bishop (128.123.88.34)
Rating: N/A |
Great "book", RJ....... Very informative and makes for good reading as well as it is thought inspiring. Couldn't help but wonder where Crowns fit in there...  RCB | ||
| Henry R. Bergman, Jr. (Henryofcj) (63.224.197.10)
Rating: N/A |
Hey R.C; You already KNOW Crown Super Coaches stand at the very top of the pile! That is why you and I and others are sossss smart---we own one! Yea, fur sure. He he he. Henry |