| Author |
Message |
Doug Dickinson (Dougd470) (207.168.131.87)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, September 07, 2002 - 1:46 pm: | |
Well, as I am getting the coach registered in my state, I am getting the coach ready for inspection (regular motor vehicle inspection). I found an air leak at the right Windshield Wiper motor. It appears to be a crack in a plastic part that handles air and is mounted in the metal motor housing. They won;t pass a coach with obvious air leaks and this one hisses, and takes about a half hour to bleed the coach down.
I am looking around for a replacement unit, but I am wondering if splurging and spending the $500 for electrics are a good idea. How does everyone feel about air vs electric. advantages/disadvantages/etc |
Johnny (63.159.198.127)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, September 07, 2002 - 2:47 pm: | |
JB Weld? It may not work, but it's worth a shott--and a lot less than $500! |
FAST FRED (65.58.191.247)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, September 07, 2002 - 5:00 pm: | |
Air is far better because if it gets stalled for any reason (not just from being iced on) it stops , but doesn't FAIL the motor.
An electric motor will burn out if stalled and the breaker doesn't blow quickly enough.
Air has almost NO cost (its installed) and is far better to live with.
Electric can give intermittant operation easily , harder with air stuff.
This besides cost is electric wipers only claim to fame.
FAST FRED |
Darryl (24.241.78.169)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, September 07, 2002 - 6:38 pm: | |
Everytime I read one of Fred's post, I usually think "I couldn't agree more". However, this time my opinion is slightly different than Fred's. I just do not like air wipers. I think it's the fact that they stall easily in light rain/mist. With the electrics, if they are on low, they keep wiping regardless of whether the rain slacks or not. Other than this, there are many advantages to them. All things considered, I'll take the electrics. The down side is the cost and hassle of replacing the airs with the electrics. I've also heard that there are now intermitent air wipers, although I've yet to see any. |
Neil (64.12.96.235)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, September 07, 2002 - 7:08 pm: | |
I found elect. wipers at a RV junk yard in Fl.from a burned Blue bird. the whole thing was only a $100. for both motors,switches, arms and blades.
I don't like the air motors on my Mc5 they are noisey and a pain to turn off and on.
I think you can get new air motors for about $70 apeace.There is a guy in La Fayete Tn that told me he had them for that price.
If any of you want his # I will try to find it.
What are you guys doing anyplace where you need to worry about them freezing anyway? lol
Neil |
Scott Whitney (66.82.9.16)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, September 08, 2002 - 12:53 am: | |
What I can't figure out is why electric wipers cost btwn $500-$700. Does that price sounds excessive to anyone else? Or is there that much difference btwn a bus wiper system and a car as far as motor size etc.?
I would certainly not spend the $500 on new wipers just to pass inspection. Maybe find the line that goes to it and cap it off temporarily for the inspection. And hope they don't ask to see the wipers run?!?
Scott |
Don KS/TX (63.15.244.147)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, September 08, 2002 - 7:08 am: | |
I have had both. Electrics have failed, air has never failed, I prefer the air ones. I vote for just fixing the leak. |
Doug Dickinson (Dougd470) (207.168.128.94)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, September 08, 2002 - 11:35 am: | |
OK, I fixed the "leak" and guess what - it isn't the motor that has the problem - it's the switch/valve!
I did the JB Weld as suggested and I still had air coming out the exhaust this time. The JB weld did the trick - but that isn't the only problem.
I didn't have that "I know the answer" feeling after coming home from where the coach is parked today and so I rationalized that "why would air be going to the wiper motor if it is turned OFF! Well, I took apart the drivers side and sure enough, there isn't any air coming through that hose when turned off. I figure the real problem is a bad valve that is letting a small amount of air through - not enough to run the motor, but enough to leak dowwn the system.
So - my next stop is to work on the wiper switch.
I think I am going to stay with air for a while. I makes a lot of sense after hearing from everyone. I appreciate all the help and the good information about why - both ways. |
Jim Ashworth (Jimnh) (172.160.81.166)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, September 08, 2002 - 8:46 pm: | |
Don't work on the switch. You can replace it for incredibly little money. When you come up against the decision between air and electric, I'll tell you to keep the air. I have intermittent air wipers and they are great. Variable delay, too. Again, not too expensive. The control is about $100 and there is one little solenoid valve on each wiper motor that I don't know the cost of. Easily installed on any Sprague wiper motor.
Jim |
Bus Jock (198.81.16.166)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, September 09, 2002 - 12:53 pm: | |
Jim,
Could you tell us where to get the kit to convert to intermittant air wipers.
I love the air system, but would like to be able to just clear the mist sometimes
Jock Fugitt |
Jim Ashworth (Jimnh) (172.157.64.107)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, September 09, 2002 - 6:17 pm: | |
Not a kit, but it is what Prevost used in the late 80's and early 90's. I believe they are all Sprague parts so check with your local heavy truck parts store. I haven't checked online but I will.
Jim |
Jim Ashworth (Jimnh) (172.136.152.214)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, September 09, 2002 - 7:43 pm: | |
Can't find anything online except marine wipers |
jason wi (198.81.16.176)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, September 09, 2002 - 7:49 pm: | |
you might try neoplan's neopart, they have intermittent air wipers on there AN340's very nice to have, always sicj with the air, we have electrics on our gilligs at avis, and they never work right, give me air anyday,
Jason |
DaveD (216.18.113.69)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, September 10, 2002 - 9:37 am: | |
I've seen MCI wiper controls switches on e-bay from time to time, quite reasonable.
DaveD |
Doug Dickinson (Dougd470) (206.71.103.83)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, September 14, 2002 - 10:58 pm: | |
Well, after all that, I decided to stay with the original air powered wipers and I think that is where I will stay for a while. I was in Bellevue WA all last week and I was going to order an air switch, but I never got around to it. This AM (Saturday) I found a Peterbuilt repair shop that is open on Saturdays. As it turns out, the parts guy knows old Peterbuilts and knew which switch I needed. The problem was they were out of stock. I looked at the ones they DID have in stock and found one with the ports on the rear instead of the sides. I have plenty of space inside the dash below where the valves fit, so I installed it and it works just fine. I will put the wiper motors back in correctly tomorrow AM.
Speaking of reinstalling, the wiper motors were installed with a gasket AND a ton of caulk - the kind that takes many years to harden and fortunately it was still easy enough to get the wiper panels out. I intend to install with the same stuff as I don't have rust (that I have found yet anyway) in the dash and aparently that is one place water gets in if not sealed well. I was both surprised and pleased.
Now - I can hear a smallish air leak under the front of the bus so I have another leak to deal with. Since I don't have a place to work on the underside yet, I guess I will have to take it in and pay some bucks. I hate that, but I don't see any other way.
Thanks for all the comments. I have learned a lot. |
FAST FRED (65.59.76.138)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, September 15, 2002 - 4:52 am: | |
With a bunch of 2X10 you can make a pair of ramps , about 4 ft long , with an 18 inch flat spot.
BOLT these together on edge ( 1/2 bolts & washers,with glue between too ) and its an easy way to get 9 1/2 inches of crawl space.
Block the wheels , and use them as a pair, on one side if you need to get under the dual wheels in the rear.
The FUN comes when you have air leaks , you cant hear!
Then its the soapy water & bubble watching time.
Works for me!
FAST FRED |
Doug Dickinson (Dougd470) (207.168.131.21)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, September 15, 2002 - 9:41 am: | |
Thanks Fred. I had thought of that, but my problem is that I can't work on it in the storage lot (rules) and the stuff I just did was under the "I need to do this to get it legal" excuse with the lot owner. I am searching for a place to work on the bus where I can get power and a little space. Once I have that, I am home clear and can start work in ernest. My conversion is going to be a minimal conversion - not a big overly expensive re-manufacture job. No roof raise, probably no basement air. I think you get the idea. It won't be the partridge family bus, but then it isn't going to be a 500K conversion either. |
Gary Stadler (Boogiethecat) (68.7.217.217)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, September 15, 2002 - 10:29 am: | |
Doug, maybe for a lot of your work you can get a little generator onboard, then simply drive it off somewhere and work on it in a parking lot or even a back street, then take it back to the storage lot when the day's over. Go to a different place each time if you need to and maybe you'll get a lot done and get the gene paid for by not having it done in a $$$ gobbling shop....
Cheers
Gary |
Scott Whitney (66.82.9.29)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, September 15, 2002 - 11:10 pm: | |
I did half my conversion in a storage yard. But I had a bit of leniency with the management. And I was in the last space in a corner by myself. Still, every thing was done on battery or genset power and everything was cleaned up nightly. Not the best way to convert, but you do what you can. Now I am out in the boonies of OK and have all the space and power I need. But the bugs and humidity make it fun!
Scott |
FAST FRED (65.58.186.165)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, September 16, 2002 - 5:34 am: | |
Doug's comment,
" My conversion is going to be a minimal conversion - not a big overly expensive re-manufacture job".
Great minds think alike , the minimal conversion is far harder to create than the sledgehammer/smash to the skin style.
And more fun to drive as it should be many tons lighter.
And far easier to maintain!
FAST FRED |
John Biundo (Jbiundo) (67.112.121.112)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, September 16, 2002 - 8:41 pm: | |
As Fred always says, have it your way.
Since Fred also always gives us "smash to the bone" style converters grief, I guess I'll have to defend us!
My way is to provide enough comfort to make a 6-9 month trip with my family of 4 a pleasant experience. What others might call luxury, I THINK we'll find almost a necessity (large fridge, laundry, dishwasher, large tanks, LOTS of 120V, etc.)
AND, I still plan to have fun driving it!
AND, I sure as heck don't think anyone else's conversion could be "far harder to create".
AND, I sure HOPE it's reasonably maintainable!
Anyway, I always get a kick out of Fred's comments, even if he seems to knock MY WAY once in a while ;-) |
Don KS/TX (63.15.244.16)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, September 16, 2002 - 9:27 pm: | |
Well, it seems the same to me quite often John, but I think we all tend to forget sometimes that we seem to get tunnel vision towards the one we created for ourselves and for our purpose.
I too had to have one that was comfortable for us for longer periods, my wife and I could not make it one day in the layout of Freds bus! But many have no intent of using the bus other than as a large station wagon for a day trip of going from A to B once in a while, that don't make us who live in the darned things wrong - or right!
Someday Fred will try out a 45 footer with room, a decent household fridge, dishwasher, AC, washer/dryer, 27 inch TV, automatic, and an antenna farm on it, and realize that it can be fun that way too, right Fred? |
FAST FRED (65.58.189.145)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, September 17, 2002 - 5:44 am: | |
Nope , it would only be a poor imitation of a 45 ft Yacht.(been there done that)
Remember on a yacht a 45 would have 15 to 18 ft of beam to work with , and ,
eat your heart out many have 3 stories to play with.
So simple stuff like a walk in engine room ,with work areas, laundry, guest cabin or two and shaded after deck or fly bridge are old hat.
The ususal House Bus has far two few windows , too little light and air , and even sealed bedrooms sans a fine picture window that some person covered up , ( usually to give the view to old out of season clothing!!)
Some even fill the bays with HOUSE PARTS ,and have a hard time carring a antique trophy , the chose 400 Gal of black water instead! UGH!
We never spend over 2 months touring , so hardly have need for a small house,
simple FUN RV will do OK , our way.
However my point that it takes lots more work and thinking to make a BUS RV than a House Bus will be visable to any that visit .
I have no problem with the sledgehammer conversions , just dont have a use for one my self.
FAST FRED |
John Biundo (Jbiundo) (67.112.121.112)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, September 17, 2002 - 10:56 am: | |
Probably not a point worth debating... but I'm sure I'll have 5000+ hours in my "sledgehammer" by the time I'm done. And A LOT of that is thinking. Granted, I'm learning HOW to do a lot of this stuff, but also spending a TON of time figuring out WHAT to do. It's plenty of good, hard, sweaty work, plus more brain work than I would ever have anticipated. 'Course that's where alot of the fun comes from. Having it "my way" requires tons of analysis and planning.
I agree with the windows comment. On the other hand, I sometimes worry that I've gone the other direction. I have 4 HUGE windows in the living area behind the driver's seat. Will pay for it in heat and A/C costs (and some loss of storage space), but there's nothing like that panoramic view as you're driving through the Rockies, Yosemite, Yellowstone, Bryce, etc. |
Gary Stadler (Boogiethecat) (68.7.217.217)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, September 17, 2002 - 11:12 am: | |
Here's a quickie before and after photo of where I curently am. I went for fewer windows and like it... just enough to see out of and not too much heat from the outside getting in. (The windshields are now the worst offender!) Like John, it's been sooo much fun doing the thinking, and especially having it turn out "right"!!
And as incentive for the obsessive like me, I bought the bus in May of this year!!!
http://www.heartmagic.com/zzz913bus.jpg
Cheers!
Gary Stadler |
DaveD (216.18.113.69)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, September 17, 2002 - 3:23 pm: | |
Just shows what you can do if you are motivated. I've left the windows in my MC-8. I like the panoramic view. Unfortunately, most of my view on the road is through the windshield from the driver's seat. It would be nice to have someone else in the family who was licensed to drive this thing once in a while.
DaveD |
John Biundo (Jbiundo) (67.112.121.112)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, September 17, 2002 - 3:42 pm: | |
Hey Gary,
Looking good! Wish my progress were as rapid. Though I'm approaching a point where it'll look somewhere close to "done" from the outside (short of trim, paint, etc.). Actually, my biggest problem (honestly) is not letting my need for instant gratification overcome my planning! So many times I WANT to do the thing that will have a big visual impact -- but the danger is that I then "shortcut" the detailed planning that's really needed to do things "right".
But some "visual rewards" are shortly forthcoming. In fact, almost enough so that I'm considering investing some effort into putting up a little web site to "share" (OK, brag!) about my progress!
It's encouraging to see progress such as yours. Keep the journalism (photo and textual) coming!
John |