| Author | Message | ||
| David Guglielmetti (Daveg)
Registered Member Username: Daveg Post Number: 16 Registered: 2-2009 Posted From: 71.154.159.108  Rating: N/A |
Anyone here familiar with the factory wheelchair lift installed on these buses? Is it physically long enough to load a motorcycle on? | ||
| Clint Hunter (Truthhunter)
Registered Member Username: Truthhunter Post Number: 104 Registered: 1-2009 Posted From: 24.129.235.190  Rating: N/A |
try the mci website, they have a video on the site that will give you a good look at the wheelchair life & if I recall some basic specs. such as capacity. | ||
| David Guglielmetti (Daveg)
Registered Member Username: Daveg Post Number: 18 Registered: 2-2009 Posted From: 71.154.159.108 Rating: N/A |
Okay, thanks I'll try that. | ||
| Mark Renner (Boomer)
Registered Member Username: Boomer Post Number: 151 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 206.58.200.38  Rating: N/A |
A few years back I looked at the 102A's that Golden Gate Transit auctioned off. They had the MCI lifts in them and their mechanics and others I spoke to (MCI regional service rep included) told me that that lift was a nightmare-broke down all the time. I also didn't like the fact that it took up so much room in the cabin, a huge amount of space lost. The Ricon systems that stow in a bay are much better. Just my opinion. We operated both the Ricon and S&S systems. We also had Complete Coach Works install a Ricon lift in an MC9 for a customer (taxpayers paid for it). Cost about 22K several years back, more than the bus was worth. I imagine some of the old Golden Gate buses are still out there, maybe somebody else has one and can chime in. | ||
| Mark Renner (Boomer)
Registered Member Username: Boomer Post Number: 152 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 206.58.200.38 Rating: N/A |
Just to clarify, the lift that is shown on the MCI website is a Ricon Mirage system. As you can see, it stows in the bay. The old MCI system was an entirely different cat. I might have some old pictures of it somewhere if someone really wanted to see it. Thanks and good luck. | ||
| David Guglielmetti (Daveg)
Registered Member Username: Daveg Post Number: 19 Registered: 2-2009 Posted From: 71.154.159.108 Rating: N/A |
Thanks Mark. I watched the video on the MCI site and noticed it was different than what is on the 102AW series. I have never seen one up close (or far away for that matter) so I'm just wondering if it would work for my application. I believe I've emailed Golden Gate and they put me on their bid list when stuff becomes avail. in the future. The gal I've corresponded with indicated that all their coaches are 45' with wheelchair lifts. I don't know what they are currently operating or which units they will be getting rid of. | ||
| Buswarrior (Buswarrior)
Registered Member Username: Buswarrior Post Number: 1536 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 76.69.140.147  Rating: N/A |
Wheelchair/Scooter lifts are often rated at 600 lbs on a good day. I am aware that the biggest scooters with the biggest passengers did stall some lifts here in Big Transit. That is not to say that an owner operated model with certain "upgrades" couldn't be enticed to lift a bit more than stock.... happy coaching! buswarrior | ||
| doug yes (Dougg)
Registered Member Username: Dougg Post Number: 71 Registered: 1-2007 Posted From: 174.131.117.82 Rating: N/A |
Is the lift in the middle of the bus or in the back? I heard the bus would sag on the ones in the middle. Is that a fact or rumor? | ||
| David Guglielmetti (Daveg)
Registered Member Username: Daveg Post Number: 21 Registered: 2-2009 Posted From: 71.154.159.108 Rating: N/A |
The motorcycles we would be loading are in the low 400# range. The factory MCI lifts are in the middle and I assume that if MCI engineers the opening that it won't sag. | ||
| Buswarrior (Buswarrior)
Registered Member Username: Buswarrior Post Number: 1537 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 76.68.120.113 Rating: N/A |
There are a lot of half-assed after market retrofits that have been done. Just buying a name brand lift and hacking a hole in the side doesn't do the job. Best if you know who did the retrofit. Lots of one-off companies did that work for the few years there was a demand. ADA requirements made it popular to take an older coach and hack the door into it to tide you over until the factory accessible buses make it down to the 2nd tier fleets. Since the bus didn't have a shelf life longer than a few years anyway in those markets, the consequences of messing up were somewhat irrelevant to the fleet owner. For the busnuts in the future, the present factory installs with the lift way at the back ahead of the washroom will make great rear garage conversions! happy coaching! buswarrior | ||
| David Guglielmetti (Daveg)
Registered Member Username: Daveg Post Number: 24 Registered: 2-2009 Posted From: 71.154.159.108 Rating: N/A |
I am looking at MCI factory level engineered and installed lifts at this point. I have seen a couple of VanHools with a second side entrance that I could make something out of, but I'm not sure I want the rest of the VanHool issues/problems, parts availability, goofy wheels etc. etc. Correct me if I'm out of line on the VanHool thing please. | ||
| RJ Long (Rjlong)
Registered Member Username: Rjlong Post Number: 1524 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 98.192.173.82  Rating: N/A |
David - You're actually being very kind to VanHool. . . Lift-U is a major supplier to the transit market, but those floors are substantially lower than a highway coach's. Lift-U's products, especially their latest, are extremely dependable in transit use, which is killer, compared to the highway folk. Ricon seems to be the major supplier to the highway coach market, and has done lots of development work on their product, so reliability is getting much, much better. Early Golden Gate Transit (SF Bay Area) MCIs had the lifts inside the middle baggage bin area - they were like an elevator, actually. Customer wheeled up the ramp, turned to face forward, driver closed the safety doors and up you went. Conceptually a good idea, operationally had lots of issues - but then again, so did most of the early ADA lifts. There was a couple at Jack's Busin' USA New Year's Party about five (?) years ago who had one of GGT's ex-MCI 102AW3s that had been converted, and the Mrs. loved it. Yup, they had issues w/ the lift, but he'd gotten them pretty well worked out, compared to revenue service usage. Talk about a specialized interior, that coach sure had one! Buswarrior was there that year - he might remember the coach also. It was at the old Horizon Coach location, before the hurricane came thru. . . But to answer one of your original questions - NO, wheelchair lifts are NOT long enough to load a motorcycle, unless maybe it's a Vespa. The wheelchair/scooter shown below just barely fits on a standard industry wheelchair lift, and it's a lot smaller than a Harley! FWIW & HTH. . .   | ||
| L James Jones Jr (Jamo)
Registered Member Username: Jamo Post Number: 56 Registered: 11-2007 Posted From: 24.59.114.248  Rating: N/A |
David, In addition to the stuff I posted on the "BNO Ebay" section, I had Ricons in both of my former shuttlebuses. When I converted them to work trucks, I eventually removed & sold both lifts. They were rated for 8 or 900 lbs (can't remember the exact number), they would lift a Harley if you could fit it. I considered a cantilever, but that may overstress the linkages...which would overstress my composure if so. My wife's '75 Honda CB-125-S would fit diagonally. But...the lifts are NOISY!! Mine rattled, squeaked, & creaked no matter how well I bungied them up. Can't stand squeaks on roadtrips. I don't miss them a bit...even when I have to load my 300lb tablesaw in pieces... | ||
| Len Silva (Lsilva)
Registered Member Username: Lsilva Post Number: 217 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 24.164.20.23  Rating: N/A |
A little out of the box here but, rather than a lift, how about a boom and winch system that would extend from the ceiling of the coach instead. Might be a lot simpler to engineer. | ||
| David Guglielmetti (Daveg)
Registered Member Username: Daveg Post Number: 25 Registered: 2-2009 Posted From: 71.154.159.108 Rating: N/A |
RJ-thanks for your input, as always, I listen when you talk. I've contacted GGT and got on their bid list when it comes out, maybe a couple of years. Hope to have something before then. LJames-I understand that the platform isn't long enough, but was thinking about a temporary extension of some sort to provide the additional length needed. Len-now that is thinking outside the box! All-seems that the first thing I need is a bus with a hole in the side of it and the best way is to get a wheelchair lift equipped bus to start with, then figure out how to get them in. That's the direction I'm thinking at this point. There just doesn't seeem to be many out there. Gotta head off to work now...start saving up for that bus.... | ||
| Buswarrior (Buswarrior)
Registered Member Username: Buswarrior Post Number: 1538 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 76.66.19.57 Rating: N/A |
Yes, I remember that set-up. The lift is inside the bus, like an elevator, midships. Becomes the floor when in the raised position. When the time comes for me to need one, I would do whatever I had to so to have it like those ones. Lose half the bay involved, but you are under cover, little screwing around, the unit is stowed by virtue of using it, far more discrete than those hang you out in space, flying bridge contraptions that make all kinds of sense commercially, but are not pleasant for the user. And enough of the side of the coach may be retained in the window area for reinforcing, since the opening height is related to the ground level access, not out the side of the coach at floor level. It's a shame when the compromises necessary in the market place get in the way of "best design" happy coaching! buswarrior | ||
| Chuck Newman (Chuck_newman)
Registered Member Username: Chuck_newman Post Number: 309 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 99.170.67.63 Rating: N/A |
David, When I purchased my 102A3 it had a lift in the third bay, just before the drive wheels. It literally filled the bay, at least 7 feet long and very heavy duty. It operated via a hydraulic unit in the second bay. The primary point for me at the time was to make sure the installer did not cut into the original floor or the roof beam. I heard of, and saw bent coaches with this design for auction. The Ventura County transit agency owned the bus before me. At the time they used intercity buses in their transit operation. I always thought the lift was way over built for the application, but then the agency had lot's of taxpayer money to spend, including repowering the engine with a 4 stroke in '94. I gave the lift to a friend in exchange for helping me remove it. The access door was well engineered and installed. Double seals (no leaks), and no cuts in the bus frame. Makes it much easier to install large items, particularly since we decided to keep the front modesty panel installed. But I'm confused about the motorcycle thing. Are you planning to lift the bike into the bus? I do know neither my HD or the wife's 150cc scooter will fit into a 102 bay. Not enough vertical clearance. You need to get a bus like Sean Welsh for that. We hang the HD on the back of the coach, and the scooter on the back of the van. | ||
| David Guglielmetti (Daveg)
Registered Member Username: Daveg Post Number: 26 Registered: 2-2009 Posted From: 71.154.159.108 Rating: N/A |
The plan is to transport two motorcycles and I do not want to tow a trailer. That leaves hanging them on the front or back of the bus (which has it's own problems), figuring out how to load them in a baggage bay, or get them inside the coach. At this point, I am open to suggestions. So yes Chuck, I'd like to lift them into the coach. | ||
| R.C.Bishop (Chuckllb)
Registered Member Username: Chuckllb Post Number: 606 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 75.208.163.209 Rating: N/A |
Ya know, David...some do slide outs with these coaches....Don't know why one couldn't do such a thing with a "flip open" (bay type) door at floor/top of bike level and "run out a hoist beam"....lift..bring in...and store.;;;then "shut the door"!!!!.... Gee whiz...the more I think about it the more I might just do it myself.... Maybe I ought to think about patent..ing that! Where's JTNG...he'll have (or George Todd) the solution....refinement, as it were. Gosh, what possibilities there are in this hobby, huh! RCB FWIW | ||
| David Guglielmetti (Daveg)
Registered Member Username: Daveg Post Number: 27 Registered: 2-2009 Posted From: 71.154.159.108 Rating: N/A |
Thanks RC, if I had a choice it would be to load the bikes into the baggage bay. Maybe raise the floor of the coach above the baggage bays as needed on one side to allow for bike height. As far as the floor inside the coach, something could be done there, raised seating or bed or something. | ||
| George M. Todd (George_mc6)
Registered Member Username: George_mc6 Post Number: 780 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 64.55.111.6 Rating: N/A |
Dave, How high is the seat on your bike? The reason I asked is that with the shelf removed from the back bay of an MC6, there is 53 inches clearance for the handlebars, if the bike were backed in. The bottom of the utility conduit has 30 inches clearance. (That may not be enough?) Actually I'm downright impressed with the out of box thought of a "crane." Another thought in the form of a question: Does the divider have to be there all the way side to side between the bays for structure? Take out the divider on the side, weld the two doors together, weld in a stiffener to the door frames, and roll the bike in longwise? ? G | ||
| RJ Long (Rjlong)
Registered Member Username: Rjlong Post Number: 1525 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 98.192.173.82 Rating: N/A |
George - "Does the divider have to be there all the way side to side between the bays for structure?" Simple answer: Yes. Mull it over and see if you can figure out why. . . | ||
| David Guglielmetti (Daveg)
Registered Member Username: Daveg Post Number: 28 Registered: 2-2009 Posted From: 71.154.159.108 Rating: N/A |
Seat height is just a fuz less than 40". I would love to load them in the baggage bays, but I'm not familiar with enough different bus bay sizes to know if any have a bay large enough. RJ-what bus has the largest bay size? 4501? | ||
| George M. Todd (George_mc6)
Registered Member Username: George_mc6 Post Number: 781 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 64.55.111.6 Rating: N/A |
Dave, Not a Scenicruiser, a Supercruiser. RJ has a great picture of one he drove, its Cream and Red and Shiny, and I understand one is for sale in the NorthEast. Unless they have corrected it recently, the Mak board is about a hundred cubes short. They don't rust either! George | ||
| Chuck Newman (Chuck_newman)
Registered Member Username: Chuck_newman Post Number: 311 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 99.170.67.63 Rating: N/A |
George, Is a hundred cubes short akin to a couple bricks shy of a full load? Dave, Seat height is almost 44". WOW! You must be at least 7 feet tall -- or more. What brand bike do you have? I recently saw a photo, perhaps 2 or 3 photos, of a guy lifting his HD off the back of his class 8 truck. He carried two motorcycles between the sleeper and the front of the towed 5th wheel. You could do the same thing with your crane (manually operated boom and winch on a swivel). If I can find it again I'll email it to you. | ||
| George M. Todd (George_mc6)
Registered Member Username: George_mc6 Post Number: 782 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 64.55.111.6 Rating: N/A |
Chuck, I'm not sure either, something like bringing a knife to a gunfight, or coming unarmed to a battle of wits? I'm not knocking the "other board," just whoever did (didn't) do their research. I think you've figured out what the bus is I'm talking about, even if there aren't many of them around? Regards, George | ||
| Chuck Newman (Chuck_newman)
Registered Member Username: Chuck_newman Post Number: 312 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 99.170.67.63 Rating: N/A |
YUP ! | ||
| RJ Long (Rjlong)
Registered Member Username: Rjlong Post Number: 1526 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 98.192.173.82 Rating: N/A |
Dave - The intercity highway buses with the tallest baggage bins are the Scenicruiser, the MCI MC-6, and the GMC 4905. The MC-6 is the rarest, only 100 were ever built. George has one, perhaps he can measure the height of the bay door opening, and also the tunnel clearance in the center of the bay. The iconic Scenicruiser, of which 1001 were built and only about 200 or so survive, only has two bins, but they're pretty tall. I don't have any specs for these, either, but perhaps one of the Scenic owners can provide the bin measurements. Finally, the 4905, of which over 2200 were built, has three bins - two of which are the same width, with the third slightly narrower, but they're all the same height. My spec sheets are packed right now, or I'd give you the dimensions. Perhaps a Buffalo owner can chime in on this thread and help you out. (BTW, there's a VERY nicely converted 4905 for sale right in your neighborhood. If you want more info, pm me.) Google Images can come up with photos for you of the above three coach models. FWIW & HTH. . . | ||
| George M. Todd (George_mc6)
Registered Member Username: George_mc6 Post Number: 783 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 64.55.111.6 Rating: N/A |
Dave, All 3 bays on an MC6 are different heights, the rear is the largest. It is 53 inches high on the sides, for a couple of feet in, but the tunnel clearance is only 30 inches... HTH, George | ||
| Mark Renner (Boomer)
Registered Member Username: Boomer Post Number: 154 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 206.58.200.38 Rating: N/A |
I suggest a Prevost H coach. I know for a fact that a motorcycle will fit in the bays because we worked on a Vantare H3-45 that the owner hauled a Harley in. Simple aluminum channel ramp. I remember him loading it at our shop, and I recall that all he had to do is loosen the handle bars and rotate them down. Of course it did not have a windshield. I'm not a bike guy so I don't know what model it was, but it was a very nice road bike. Someone on here can come forth with the bay height on an H coach. They are huge. H3-40's and 41's are becoming very affordable. Somewhere I have a picture of him loading his bike in the bay. Personally, I would avoid a W/C lift at all costs, unless you are handicapped. | ||
| David Guglielmetti (Daveg)
Registered Member Username: Daveg Post Number: 29 Registered: 2-2009 Posted From: 71.154.159.108 Rating: N/A |
Chuck-seat height is lower, but there is the tail section and that height is near the 44". RJ-thanks for the information, I'll PM ya. George-thanks, the tunnel clearance is the killer for me. Mark-hey this is sounding good. I'd love to see a picture of that! My first choice would be to dedicate a baggage bay or two for carring the motorcycles. My second choice is the load them into the coach (by whatever means I can figure out). The positive point to a wheelchair lift is not the lift itself as much as it is the opening in the coach side. Okay H3 people, bay sizes/opening size please! | ||
| David Guglielmetti (Daveg)
Registered Member Username: Daveg Post Number: 30 Registered: 2-2009 Posted From: 71.154.159.108 Rating: N/A |
http://lakeblueridgemarina.com/Gallery/The_Bus/bus_014 Here is a picture of a nice Prevost with a Harley |