| Author | Message | ||
| GlennVin (Glennvin)
Registered Member Username: Glennvin Post Number: 41 Registered: 10-2002 Posted From: 98.18.96.170 Rating: N/A |
Below is a link to The Atlanta Journal and Constitution. I seems that the same HOV exit ramp that caused seven people to loose their lives in March 2007, nearly happened again one day last week. http://www.ajc.com/news/content/metro/stories/2009/04/05/hov_ramp_bus.html?cxntlid=homepag e_tab_newstab&imw=Y Glenn Tallulah Falls, GA | ||
| Paul Lawry (Dreamscape)
Registered Member Username: Dreamscape Post Number: 462 Registered: 5-2007 Posted From: 174.145.99.3  Rating: N/A |
They could have at least put up a portable sign saying "Exit Only" until the new sign is finished. That's pretty dumb to let it go this long. Sheesh! Our Tax Dollars At Work, Yeah right! ~Paul~ | ||
| don goldsmith (Bottomacher)
Registered Member Username: Bottomacher Post Number: 245 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 72.15.86.59 Rating: N/A |
Well, at least instead of the usual 3 to 4 years, GA DOT says it's going to expedite the new sign installation and might have it done within eight months. Makes us feel all warm and fuzzy to know that the government is working extra hard for us after killing only a few people. | ||
| John MC9 (John_mc9)
Registered Member Username: John_mc9 Post Number: 853 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 74.162.83.254  Rating: N/A |
It's Deja' Vu all over again! THE ARCHIVES » Year 2007 » March 2007 » Bus Falls From Interstate Seems like yesterday..... | ||
| Debbie and Joe Cannarozzi (Joe_camper)
Registered Member Username: Joe_camper Post Number: 140 Registered: 10-2006 Posted From: 71.239.202.82 Rating: |
There is about 6 lanes in either direction thru Atlanta. Why would you drive in the hammer lane when you have 5 more to your right???????????? Could it be because your in a hurry? Hmmmmmmmm. IMO that exit is very well marked. If it were foggy or something I suppose it could be bad for someone from out of town going too fast for conditions in the hammer lane. What ever happened to personal responsibility? When people start expecting and relying on others for their safety they make a huge mistake. So now the folks in Georgia will spend how much more taxes to mark an exit that is already marked? If they want to make that stretch of road safer reduce the limit and then strictly enforce it. That would save both life and money. (Message edited by Joe Camper on April 07, 2009) (Message edited by Joe Camper on April 07, 2009) (Message edited by Joe Camper on April 07, 2009) | ||
| Kevin Mossman (Ktmossman)
Registered Member Username: Ktmossman Post Number: 21 Registered: 9-2007 Posted From: 216.46.98.249 Rating: N/A |
Oddly enough, just after the crash in 2007, they put up all kinds of signage, complete with flashing lights, rumble strips, etc. But all of it was "temporary" until the permanent items could be installed. I guess the "temporary" stuff was removed while they were still arguing about the "permanent". This is actually a symptom of a bigger problem. The GA DOT was turned into a big political "jobs program" years ago. It has been over-run by incompetent political cronyism. There is finally a bill making its' way through the legislature to completely restructure the dept and remove the political influence (or at least attempt to.) | ||
| George M. Todd (George_mc6)
Registered Member Username: George_mc6 Post Number: 779 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 64.55.111.6 Rating: |
Joe, We all drive on a set of standards in the US! HOV stands for High Occupancy Vehicle, which is certainly the definition of a bus, so the HOV lane is just where a bus should be. Left exits were designed out many years ago to avoid confusion and the resulting collisions from slowing in the higher speed lanes. We know from this board that at least 3 out-of-state commercially licensed bus drivers mistakenly took that offramp. We don't know how many more out-of-area people have done it and gotten by with nothing more than a U turn down the block in a car. What happens when the light at the end is red, cars are stopped halfway down the ramp, and a bus with an out-of-town driver mistakenly enters this ramp at 50 MPH? We also don't know how many automobile collisions have occurred there due to improper signage, because car crashes don't get posted here! Sorry, but when I'm from out-of-town, driving on an Interstate in a lane BUILT TO DECREASE TRAFFIC CONGESTION, at the speed limit, I want to know that the LEFT lane (which is marked with a DIAMOND) is an offramp, and I have to steer right. George | ||
| PA Doug (Padoug)
Registered Member Username: Padoug Post Number: 3 Registered: 1-2009 Posted From: 76.120.147.169 Rating: N/A |
Thank you George, I couldn't agree more. By the way, I looked at that location via Google Earth. It reminds me of the left exit from 270 at the DC Beltway going to the Inner Loop. The HOV lane stays in place through the exit, then merges with the on-part as it begins to line up with the rest of the Beltway. Talk about fun! And you are correct. In DC, it's pretty much expected that busses stay in the HOV lanes. Yes, they are marked for certain times only. But it is ASSUMED that busses and other large vehicles be given their own lanes where they are expected to be. And similar to the Atlanta road, the exit lanes for multiple exits are separated by Jersey barriers from through traffic. Again, be where you are expected to be. I guess I would be one of those "irresponsible drivers" following the normal (and recommended and legal)driving practices of other cities in the US that the locals seem to complain about. Geeze, I'm not afraid to criticize my own state. Many of our on and off ramps are way too short and lack visibility for good, safe traffic flow. I can think of 5 within 6 miles of me offhand that I try to avoid. In some cases, it is NOT the drivers fault, simply for being there. Anyway, my suggestion is simply to do away with the HOV lanes. That would alleviate the left lane usage. I'm not terribly impressed with HOV anyway. They don't seem to do much good. Doug | ||
| john w. roan (Chessie4905)
Registered Member Username: Chessie4905 Post Number: 1388 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 71.58.110.9  Rating: N/A |
Don't just blame it on bad signs. That setup was designed by an idiot. How many people need to crash/die before it is redesigned. Isn't that the same city that has the through lanes split into two diverging routes for some distance? I was through that area once or somewhere down there and it is confusing for a first time traveler. You want to try to stop and back up because you think you took the wrong way. Don't do it though; deadly. Look at how many exit ramps curve with decreasing radius there are in this country. Use some of that stimulus money to address these kinds of problems instead of tatoo removal and such. | ||
| John MC9 (John_mc9)
Registered Member Username: John_mc9 Post Number: 854 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 74.162.93.147 Rating: N/A |
As a former charter bus driver (long ago), the first thing that was learned, is that the passengers are the most important thing in that bus, and to do what ever it took, to protect them. That meant paying attention to the road at all times. There isn't a state in the union that has perfect "signage". There are hairpin turns without markings, right turn signs where there is no right turn available, "Keep right" signs, when the right lane ends abruptly.. Traffic controls (lights) that failed, and missing stop signs. The Florida roads are absolutely terrible. There are deep culverts and canals running for miles within 10' of the roadways, unmarked, and unprotected, and no shoulder. Line and lane markings are absent on most main roads. The double-left and double-right turn lanes at intersections are horrific for the newcomer. "Joe Camper had it right. It's the driver's responsibility to pay attention to the ever-changing road conditions. The gubberment wasn't formed to hold each hand through every episode of life. It may be true that "shit happens", but if you're paying attention, you may just be able to duck while you have a chance to. In the Atlanta story, that lane has been clearly marked with signs telling of the lane's end. It is an uphill ramp, not a straightaway, and not a downhill run. Buses are not restricted to the HOV lanes. The HOV lanes are very restricting; there are no lanes to move to in case of an emergency, or to simply navigate around a hazard. None of those charter drivers had a reason for being on one. And apparently, none felt the need to pay attention at a critical time. There. I said it and I'm glad. | ||
| R.C.Bishop (Chuckllb)
Registered Member Username: Chuckllb Post Number: 605 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 75.208.163.209 Rating: N/A |
I'm still prayin' for you JTNG....  Gotta luv it! RCB | ||
| frankdegroot (Coach)
Registered Member Username: Coach Post Number: 18 Registered: 1-2009 Posted From: 76.70.123.88 Rating: N/A |
Speed is everything.In congested areas move to the right slow down and let everybody do there thing.There are too many blind spots to make an eratic move and at a reasonable speed the brain has time to analyse the situation. My two cents coach | ||
| Mike Eades (Mike4905)
Registered Member Username: Mike4905 Post Number: 186 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 97.106.122.149 Rating: N/A |
I was on that same road about three days ago and I always fin that area difficult. I use the hov because of the time it saves my groups. I am just very carefull through there. I think it was unreasonable for the police to give out a ticket. But I drive a touring coach for the fifth largest co. in the country. I find this type of problem everywhere, not just Atlanta. I think it is bad, but river beware. Mike4905 | ||
| David Evans (Dmd)
Registered Member Username: Dmd Post Number: 301 Registered: 10-2004 Posted From: 96.232.132.135  Rating: N/A |
Well from what i have seen the fast lane is the new slow lane and the center lane is anyones guess and the former slow lane is a mix of the fastest and slowest vehicles. What happened to stay right except to pass? No one wants to be passed around this area or even to let you pass. When i drive the bus and put on the signal to change lanes the idiots step on the gas so i cant! Oh crap i must have hit old age i am ranting too. | ||
| John MC9 (John_mc9)
Registered Member Username: John_mc9 Post Number: 855 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 74.162.93.147 Rating: N/A |
David - Re: "Oh crap i must have hit old age i am ranting too." HAR! That's what ya' get for getting old! Hey Mike? "I find this type of problem everywhere, not just Atlanta. I think it is bad, but [d]river beware." The "driver beware" theme is what I'm talking about! I think we're all seeing more and more truck and bus drivers with very little experience, or lacking plain old common sense. I'm not sure, but it seems like the CDL has removed the older veterans that could drive but not pass a test, and gave us great "test passers" that can't drive worth a fart. Regardless, there seems to be an overabundance of commercial drivers that shouldn't be on the road. Blaming a crash or a near miss because a sign was missing, is a poor excuse. Every one of us that has driven in the northern parts of this country, never had a sign telling us the road was going to be partially covered with "black ice" to help us avoid a crash. We use common sense and we pay attention to the ever-changing road conditions; it's a prerequisite to safe driving. . | ||
| frankdegroot (Coach)
Registered Member Username: Coach Post Number: 19 Registered: 1-2009 Posted From: 76.70.123.88 Rating: N/A |
It has nothing to do with old age.Now I am going to go out on a limb here to say this but people are stressed frustrated and confused.They got us where we don t know if we are coming or going. I m glad to have my coach to keep me positive | ||
| Mark Renner (Boomer)
Registered Member Username: Boomer Post Number: 153 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 206.58.200.38  Rating: N/A |
I owned a charter bus company for years and I instructed the drivers not to use the HOV lane. Visualize barreling down the HOV at 55+ with stopped traffic in the next lane over. Then, some idiot decides to whip it over in the HOV lane right in front of you. Happened to a lady who owned a bus company that I spoke to at the UMA convention a couple years ago. After the mass mayhem and lawsuits ended, so did her bus company ownership. To say nothing of nightmares for years later. I always took the worst case scenerio method in regards to what might happen out there on the highway. I preached stay right except to pass. That way, you have an out, to the right shoulder, plus, you only have to keep track of the traffic to your left and front; not all around you. Sure, there are places where this is not practical ie L.A. where there are on ramps every 1/4 mile. Drive safe my friends, drive safe. | ||
| FAST FRED (Fast_fred)
Registered Member Username: Fast_fred Post Number: 746 Registered: 10-2006 Posted From: 66.82.9.75 Rating: N/A |
What ever happened to personal responsibility? After 60 years of Left control of Publik Edukation this is a humorous question. FF | ||
| Kevin Mossman (Ktmossman)
Registered Member Username: Ktmossman Post Number: 22 Registered: 9-2007 Posted From: 216.46.98.249 Rating: N/A |
Atlanta highway engineering is notoriously bad. My favorites are 1.) where GA400 merges with I85S (4 lanes of major southbound traffic funnel down to one lane to merge into I85) and 2.) where I285 merges onto GA400N (single exit lane which slows to a crawl then dumps into the FAST lane on GA400.) Of course, this is the same state that built new dormitories for the Olympics which were then handed over to GA Tech, but they missed something in the planning and the dorms are now sinking. | ||
| Tim Brandt (Timb)
Registered Member Username: Timb Post Number: 288 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 66.165.176.62  Rating: N/A |
Kevin, I remember well taking the 285 to 400N exit ramp with my coach. It was just after I had bought it in AL and was driving it home to Cumming. First time I had ever driven a bus and a 5 speed to boot | ||
| Kevin Mossman (Ktmossman)
Registered Member Username: Ktmossman Post Number: 23 Registered: 9-2007 Posted From: 216.46.98.249 Rating: N/A |
Tim, are you still in Cumming? If so, we can't be that far apart as it's not that big a town. | ||
| Len Silva (Lsilva)
Registered Member Username: Lsilva Post Number: 218 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 24.164.20.23  Rating: N/A |
When I am driving through a strange city, I try to find through trucks that are traveling at a speed that I am comfortable with and stay with them. Usually gets me through with a problem. | ||
| Tim Brandt (Timb)
Registered Member Username: Timb Post Number: 289 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 66.165.176.62 Rating: N/A |
Kevin, Yes I am. I live in Cumming just off exit 14 and work in Alpharetta. I keep the bus at a storage off Pilgrim Mill rd Exit 16. Where are you at? | ||
| Kevin Mossman (Ktmossman)
Registered Member Username: Ktmossman Post Number: 24 Registered: 9-2007 Posted From: 216.46.98.249 Rating: N/A |
Post Rd and Hwy 20. I work in Alpharetta as well. Emailing. | ||
| john w. roan (Chessie4905)
Registered Member Username: Chessie4905 Post Number: 1389 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 71.58.110.9 Rating: N/A |
Has anyone driven down I270 where it meets The beltway and I think I66, I395, I495 and I95 at Springfield? Nightmare when busy, which is 20 hours a day. I don't drive that way anymore for several years, even in a car. | ||
| PA Doug (Padoug)
Registered Member Username: Padoug Post Number: 4 Registered: 1-2009 Posted From: 76.120.147.169 Rating: N/A |
>>Has anyone driven down I270 where it meets The beltway and I think I66, I395, I495 and I95 at Springfield? Nightmare when busy, which is 20 hours a day. I don't drive that way anymore for several years, even in a car.<< John, I'll probably be in DC as you read this, or else on my way there to work for the day. I used to live in Alexandria. For this trip, I'll be parking at Shady Grove and Metro-ing in and returning home near Pittsburgh after rush hour. The I-395/495/95 Interchange is named the "Mixing Bowl" for I can give a few tips for getting around in a car, or something no larger than a U-Haul. If you are simply heading South, then may I suggest I-81, which is no more than an hour out of the way (West of 95)when you take into consideration all of the traffic back-ups. Think about it. Which would be better? 1 mpg for 20 miles or so (I'm sure others who have driven large vehicles can confirm this for me. My experience is with the old and now sold off stick shift U-Haul trucks), or 6-12 mpg for 70-120 miles out of your way? If the former, what is your time..or more importantly, aggravation, worth? Me? I have half a dozen back-up routes around the city that will put me against the flow of traffic if needed. Still lusy though, as they are mostly "city" routes. Glad I live in the "Boonies" now and only go down when I'm contracted to be there, or visiting loved ones. That being said: The direction signs on the Ft. Pitt Bridge in Pittsburgh has you looking up into the rafters when leaving town. The inbound lanes are at least posted in a "normal" way because those lanes are on top. Now a slightly different take from the Western-PA Dept. of Tourism, Podunk, Pennsyltucky, "Paw Doug" and Alfred E. Newman, Co-Chairmen: "Ain't Sitty drive'N fun? YE HAW! Come visit hour plase instead! You'll have no prolems! When the pot holes end, just turn left where the old red barn fell down a few years back, then another left at the "Real" white house with the greay pickit fense...when you get to the top of the hill, there will be a couple a "S" turns..Some Sitty folk called it a "Shi? Cane" sometime back, but we don't grow that anymore, gubb'ment stopped us. Anyway, top of the hil, you'll see our mansion..er Welcum Senter. Don't park next to the VW..that's the neighborood shootin range, the kids throw rocks at it. Park next to the police cruiser and wake Bubba up in the back seat for directions inside and whether its sa..er open. He's got nothin to do anyway. You'll be fine. Coffee and good conversation is brewin!" See? It's all in perspective.... Doug | ||
| Clint Hunter (Truthhunter)
Registered Member Username: Truthhunter Post Number: 112 Registered: 1-2009 Posted From: 24.129.235.190  Rating: N/A |
errr. many a time it is too fast for conditions.... one condtion being what you can brake befor what you can see,,, well before you can "feel" what you can saw. | ||
| GlennVin (Glennvin)
Registered Member Username: Glennvin Post Number: 42 Registered: 10-2002 Posted From: 98.18.124.104 Rating: N/A |
The following article was announced Monday April 13 in the Atlanta Journal and Constitution. It seems that for the time being, the Georgia DOT is willing to make a few changes. http://www.ajc.com/metro/content/metro/atlanta/stories/2007/03/13/0313metcrash.html Glenn Tallulah Falls, GA |
