| Author | Message | ||
| Jim Gibson (River_rat)
Registered Member Username: River_rat Post Number: 9 Registered: 1-2009 Posted From: 75.95.96.192 Rating: N/A |
Here is a possible idea for a roof rack/deck. Remember I am a newbie to busses, so it might be impossible for some reason. Most racks are built as a separate structure, very expensive, highly engineered,, and attached at points to the roof by welding etc. In this configuration, all of the weight on the deck is on those points. What about a high-density foam filled rack where the weight is distributed over the whole deck area? I don’t have a sketch, but envision a flat deck of say ¾” marine plywood set on the roof so it touched the roof crown and went out about 6” less than the bus width. The distance on the outer sides from this wood deck to the bus roof would be about 4” to 5” at that point. Now envision ¼” aluminum diamond plate as sides, the top mating with the plywood, the bottom the bus roof. Along the front and back, the diamond plate would be cut to match the roof curve. The plate could be welded around it’s perimeter to form a seal to the bus roof, and the plywood attached with screws. If there are any air vents, even air conditioning units along the top, they can be removed and holes cut since they would only need an additional ¾” to be replaced. Those holes should be sealed. Once the structure is built, fill the entire “box” with rigid expanding foam, and now any weight on the deck is distributed over the entire roof. I suspect the foam, when expanded, will exert about 10-20lbs (?) of pressure so it should not bow or buckle the wood or the roof. I tried to use this description to get the concept across, but there are several obvious modifications, like adding plastic sheet in the box before the foam to keep the stuff off the roof, attaching the sides with screws, etc. One could make the entire structure of aluminum, no wood. I would place plastic sheet under the plywood so if the time came, it could be replaced and the foam would remain. Obviously the wood deck would want a weatherproof covering like one-piece rubber or really good exterior carpet, sealed from water. Rails could be easily attached. It would not be difficult to add a slight curve to the wood to water would drain off the edges. Lots of things would make it last a long time - and it’s dirt cheap! In my case, the beauty is being able to put in a roof access hatch from the inside the bus with a simple 6’ removable adder, as I never liked the idea of climbing from the ground all the way up on the outside - way too dangerous after a few cold ones! A boating deck hatch 24” squate with a ¼” tempered glass top can be had for a few hundred bucks, and they would easily install in one of the existing vent holes, with a bit of enlarging. Since there is only ¾” added to the installation height, and being able to put my roof vents back is a plus. Granted they would be in the center of the deck, but they would make a good “pass me another beer” port to the kitchen! I searched the archives and found nothing like this, so what do your folks think? Jim | ||
| don goldsmith (Bottomacher)
Registered Member Username: Bottomacher Post Number: 247 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 72.15.86.59 Rating: N/A |
It'd be right tricky to weld aluminum plate to the roof skin, and distributing the weight over the entire roof would provide little support, since the skin is very thin and hardly structurally able to carry weight. It would probably work better to support the structure along the existing roof framing and rivet the joists to the framing. | ||
| Cindy and John (Cindyandjohn)
Registered Member Username: Cindyandjohn Post Number: 94 Registered: 1-2007 Posted From: 70.15.52.58 Rating: N/A |
Jim, I have been in search of the right material to make a permanent roof deck on our Eagle. I have felt diamond plate would be too heavy... I found this material ( DuraGrid - http://www.strongwell.com/products/pultruded_prod/grating/index.shtml ) and have drafted a few ideas but the $1800 price has held me from making it... a sheet of this at approx 5' x 15' (I think i priced it at a 20' standard sheet)is 300 pounds. It is weather resistant and can have a skid resistant surface molded into it. it won't rot and it is very strong. I have seen it used as walkways to roller coasters in amusement parks. Of course it will need an understructure to mount it to the roof frame rails not the skins. I had planned to use some steel square tubing. My plan was to keep this as low profile as possible. I also agree there needs to be a safe ladder setup - I haven't come to that design yet. John | ||
| Kasse Weikel (More_s_than_as)
Registered Member Username: More_s_than_as Post Number: 14 Registered: 4-2009 Posted From: 71.84.122.200 Rating: N/A |
i agree that the actual sheet metal skin wont hold much, and you should square off as much weight as possible on the frame up there. i was thinking of a similar idea, using the rear hatch to climb up to the deck. i figured a rope ladder under the hatch would be practical, space saving, and FUN! just roll it up when not in use. need clips and the bottom of the rope and eye loops/bolts on the floor to clip ladder bottom too (keeping the drunk people in mind here). some simple straps tacked to ceiling to tie knots around the rolled up ladder would hold it up and out of the way. a friend of mine recently got back from africa and was showing me pics of these "stretch tents" they have there. people have them out at burningman too, they are some crazy strong super stretchy material. if your put eye loops on the your deck rails, and clips on the edge of the stretch tent material, you can have a strong instant tent. just clip on and have a pole with a base to hold up the middle. the material is expensive however and the pole in the middle might get in the way. i didnt realize it at the time but we were going with the KISS method apparently. | ||
| Sean Welsh (Sean)
Registered Member Username: Sean Post Number: 821 Registered: 1-2003 Posted From: 67.142.130.14  Rating: N/A |
We have a deck on our roof. It is supported at several locations that coincide with the internal roof truss structure of the coach, which is where you ultimately need to transfer the loads, even if you try to use the skin as support. Here are a pair of write-ups I did on the other board (in this thread):
and:
updated by:
and
(See, Ian, I'm trainable -- you've got me cutting-and-pasting all this stuff over here now. Hope you don't mind the direct link, though.) Hope this helps. -Sean http://OurOdyssey.BlogSpot.com (Message edited by Sean on April 14, 2009) | ||
| Jim Gibson (River_rat)
Registered Member Username: River_rat Post Number: 11 Registered: 1-2009 Posted From: 75.95.96.192 Rating: N/A |
Sean - that is the most beautifull vehicle I have ever seen! WOW. I watched all your videos - thank you for sharing that adventure in such a professional form! I'm going to let my wife see them, and although I run the risk of her thinking my little 4104 is inadequate, she will be able to see the possibilities! (to any of you who have not watched Seans videos, I highly recommend them) I love your deck, and the access port is what I was thinking. I already have one of those little fold up ladders - your's is the second one I have ever seen. I expect that the decking platform material is pretty pricy, although it looks perfect. In the "foam" method I am thinking about, I need a strong flat top that has no holes, as again, it is really just the top of a "box" that will be filled with rigid foam and the foam is the support. Does look mighty nice, and might end up the way to go... Cindy & John - I didn't realize that the diamond plate was that heavy - I guess that elimates it as a deck material, although if the stuff were just used for the 4 vertical ends and sides, weight would not be much of an issue. Might even be better to use 1/8" thick for the edges, as they are really only there to keep the foam in place, and it is the real support. On the roof stress issue again. If the deck were to be 7' X 25' - pretty good size, and we were to want it to hold 2000 lbs, that would work out to 175 Sq Ft of roof, or 11.5 Lbs/ Sq Ft. Seems like a pretty well distributed load. I am like Sean in that I really don't want a lot of people up there - just me and a few friends so 2000 lbs is maximum. I love the ideas folks - thanks! Jim | ||
| Kasse Weikel (More_s_than_as)
Registered Member Username: More_s_than_as Post Number: 18 Registered: 4-2009 Posted From: 71.84.122.200 Rating: N/A |
my only concern is that the foam will not be "rigid" enough. i have used this expansion foam as well (not on the bus though) and its not concrete. I fear as time goes on the skins will buckle around the frame as the foam settles out from the weight. if the foam settles so much as a half an inch, it will also cause your cool side panels to buckle and the deck to sag (depending on deck materials). im planning on building a deck as well, but the same style as seans looks like the key. if you go ahead and do it your way, we could always compare and contrast later down the road, that would be fun, you never know you might be on to something there. at any rate if you ever need any help and can wait a few days for me to pop up, id love to come check out that BLUE SHAG CARPET before you rip it up. if its still in good condition and you dont want it can i have it for my geodome??? | ||
| Jim Gibson (River_rat)
Registered Member Username: River_rat Post Number: 13 Registered: 1-2009 Posted From: 75.95.96.192 Rating: N/A |
Kasse, I had not considered the foam sagging - that would be really bad. I'll do some checking into the specs. Blue shag - not pulling it for a while, but after I use it for a pattern, it's yours. Jim | ||
| Patrick levenson (Zubzub)
Registered Member Username: Zubzub Post Number: 80 Registered: 5-2007 Posted From: 70.29.209.208  Rating: N/A |
the point that the roof supporting members are carrying the weight anyhow is worth considering. Even if the deck is supported over the entire area the supporting members are still bearing the weight. I'm inclined to think that the layer of foam is won't be that helpful, and if you get it wrong could bend the roof between ribs causing structural weakening. I have a 4104 and had thought that I would probably attach a deck at specific points on the roof, and use the stiffness of the deck help distribute the load over all the bearing points. (I alos like the idea of a deck I can remove easily). | ||
| Bruce Henderson (Oonrahnjay)
Registered Member Username: Oonrahnjay Post Number: 390 Registered: 8-2004 Posted From: 70.60.107.86  Rating: N/A |
Patrick, I think your concern about structural weakening is a valid one. My bus is really tall and a previous owner had driven it into some overhanging tree limbs. The metal between some fo the supporting members had become stretched and pulled loose from its watertight joins. Took a lot of time and work to get it where it wouldn't leak. I think pressure on the sheet metal is a bad idea. | ||
| Debbie and Joe Cannarozzi (Joe_camper)
Registered Member Username: Joe_camper Post Number: 142 Registered: 10-2006 Posted From: 71.239.202.82 Rating: N/A |
We have a 21 ft roof deck that was installed by the converter. It is large enough and could be easily divided into 2 decks! The rails are SS and the deck is diamond plate. The ladder is also SS and brakes down into 3 pieces that are stowed in the basement. My wife is afraid of heights. I would be willing to trade it for whatever. Somewhere in the archives I posted a photo. If interested I could e-mail more and bigger photos. I have been told this feature set the original owner back PLENTY but, we have no use for it. We have an 85 Prevo XL it does not leak, it does not sag it has been up on the roof for almost 25 years now. (Message edited by Joe Camper on April 15, 2009) | ||
| Jim Gibson (River_rat)
Registered Member Username: River_rat Post Number: 14 Registered: 1-2009 Posted From: 75.95.96.192 Rating: N/A |
I talked with Dow Chemical this morning and they had no data on compressive strength, SOOOOO, maybe I heed the words of you more experienced BusNuts and don't take a chance on damaging my beautifull new toy... I love my bus! Still think it will work, but not going to take the risk! What a great site! Joe - just for grins, can you email me a photo of your unwanted deck... ####thinfilmguy@hotmail.com### Jim | ||
| Cindy and John (Cindyandjohn)
Registered Member Username: Cindyandjohn Post Number: 95 Registered: 1-2007 Posted From: 70.15.52.58 Rating: N/A |
I think this is the link to the SS Roof Deck Photo from the past that Joe has... http://www.busnut.com/bbs/messages/233/19419.html John | ||
| Roderick W. Chandler (Rod)
Registered Member Username: Rod Post Number: 41 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 69.30.188.128 Rating: N/A |
Jim you might try your idea on the ground on the patio or some such surface where you could walk around on it and see how well it held up. I doubt that the foam is made for supporting anything. Rod | ||
| Kasse Weikel (More_s_than_as)
Registered Member Username: More_s_than_as Post Number: 22 Registered: 4-2009 Posted From: 24.176.245.108 Rating: N/A |
ok i know this is Jim's thread so im not trying to step on any tows or anything...but what exactly do YOU want as a trade? whatever implies a lot. do you want conversion specific items, or maybe something for your house or car (if your not a full timer). what value does it have to you right now, would a small cash offering do as well? you should definetly get first crack at the deal, but if you end up not doing it jim, pick me!! pick me!! pick me!! the edit : yeah i would be stoked to get that blue shag after yer done with it, maybe bring it out to the playa and we could tag there?!? (Message edited by More_s_than_as on April 15, 2009) | ||
| Debbie and Joe Cannarozzi (Joe_camper)
Registered Member Username: Joe_camper Post Number: 143 Registered: 10-2006 Posted From: 71.239.202.82 Rating: N/A |
I have no awnings I would love to somehow be able to turn that deck into awning. I would take anything in trade I thought I could re-sell in a reasonable amount of time to then make that happen. I have my # on my personal profile. (Message edited by Joe Camper on April 17, 2009) |