| Author | Message | ||
| Kasse Weikel (More_s_than_as)
Registered Member Username: More_s_than_as Post Number: 19 Registered: 4-2009 Posted From: 71.84.122.200 Rating: N/A |
i know i might be annoying some of you cause this is my 15th or so post in the 3 days ive been registered or so, but im leaving in 2 or 3 days to go do another round of work on the bus and im trying to get my planning together. i asked about this in my first post but i didnt get the response i was hoping for (none about shops at all) and im leaving soon (is patience a virtue?). things need doing: inspection of course, alignment (understood if this has to be done at a commercial shop), rear main seal, a small oil leak at the front and rear of the head on left side, KISS style plumbing and electrical work, maybe a helping hand with some gauges as well. Best case scenario: id love if one of you guys/gals had a shop around arcata or redding that i could pay to ASSIST and GUIDE me. id love to do a lot of the work myself and have a mentor available for questions (and to make sure i dont do anything unsafe). If not, anyone have a local shop favorite that could possibly give me the same experience? of course proper tools would be another reason to seek higher knowledge (i know nothing bout busses, this thing fell in my lap kinda). i have found some shops through DD's website but id love to support and visit my fellow busnuts. Current situation: 82 gillig phantom with 6v92 is north of willow creek (where the 299 junctions the 96). i wanted to get everything done except; plumbing and tanks, electrical, and mechanical issues. i would then drive her down to the shop to have the issues just mentioned above accessed by a more knowledgeable person than myself. i know im really reaching out to the community here, but wont it be fun to see me pull up in your shop? you know ill bring cold tasty beverages, and lots of thanks and smiles. im trying to leave sooner than later and i want this project ready to roll for summer time, i know some of you can feel my pain right now. i think Macgyver is in need more than me right now so i wont be offended if i get few responses here before i leave, i know im asking a lot. Thanks is an understatement! | ||
| Roger Baughman (Roger)
Registered Member Username: Roger Post Number: 97 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 69.232.69.39  Rating: N/A |
Kasse; Asking questions is what this board is all about. You are welcome here, so don't be afraid to ask. I don't have any answers for you as I am prety new as this bus thing too, but I bet there are a lot of others that will. Good luck, Roger | ||
| Keith Wood (Ft6)
Registered Member Username: Ft6 Post Number: 101 Registered: 8-2008 Posted From: 75.208.245.110 Rating: N/A |
Have you checked with Ted at Coach Maintenance, in Williams? It's somewhat farther south on I-5, but worth the trip. | ||
| Debbie and Joe Cannarozzi (Joe_camper)
Registered Member Username: Joe_camper Post Number: 141 Registered: 10-2006 Posted From: 71.239.202.82 Rating: N/A |
Kasse I will be flying to So Cal to do some suspension work on a couple of Prevost conversions for some fellow members of another group I am associated with. Beginning of next month. If you like you can call me 708-243-7871 Joe (Message edited by Joe Camper on April 15, 2009) | ||
| Jim Gibson (River_rat)
Registered Member Username: River_rat Post Number: 15 Registered: 1-2009 Posted From: 75.95.96.192 Rating: N/A |
KassJackson Trucking Jackson Trucking Cal Pac Road Hoopa, CA 95546 (530) 625-4273 Just made few calls and there is a guy in Hoopa, about 20 miles north at Jackson Trucking that says he is a DD guy for 20 years and seemed very interested. He seemed to know the gillig bus (identified it right off as a mid engine- is it?)and although he is a truck guy, might be a help. I told him your were looking for the stuff on your list - primarily to make sure the bus is safe, brakes, etc, maybe the rear seal, and he said give him a call. I don't know him from adam - but hes only 20 miles away. Might be worth a call. Jim | ||
| Kasse Weikel (More_s_than_as)
Registered Member Username: More_s_than_as Post Number: 20 Registered: 4-2009 Posted From: 24.176.245.108 Rating: N/A |
LOL jim thats hilarious. Hoops is a crazy indian reservation and all my friends tell me never speed through there and never stop there for ANYTHING LOL!!! And i get the feeling a lot of people out there are tweakin off their gords, especially since NO the engine is in the back! did anyone ever manke a mid engine bus??? i know thats a popular thing for sports car to get the center of gravity better adjusted. i mean i really donteven know what he means by a "mid-engine." I guess it still wouldnt hurt to call him up but i think ted at coach maintenance might be better, i dont mind the journey down I-5, my girl is governed at 75 and she was doin that when i was driving her before i shelled it. joe camper - thanks for your offer bro but id like to get the alignment and isnpection done a little closer im gonna look up and call coach maintenance right now, thanks a lot everyone one keep the good tips coming!! heres the edit; ok motrorcoach maintenance was busy but i left a messaeg. i called the chop in hoopa and by "mid-engine" he means one like Mac's thats on the 45 degree angle(which mine isnt). he says that they arnt certified to align and score tires but he'll do it for me if i want cause he says they all do it to their own trucks. he also said the rear main wouldnt be a problem if i ordered the parts. he qouted me at 3 hours for alignment (around 200 dollars) and 8 hours on the rear main seal (he said he wanted 600 flat not including parts). are these proper hour qoutes? hes asking about 75/hour which isnt too bad compared to prices for labor around here (95/hour at local jeep dealer). BTW he seemed like a VERY nice guy and his shop is on the edge of the town which i like for my white skin safety reasons (ive never been harassed driving through there but i have heard some stories). i even asked while i was there if i could pick his brain about the braking system and he said "oh yeah sure!" can i get some opinions on these prices and hour qoutes please!!!!! if this seems like the thing to do (THANKS JIM!!!!!!!!) then i will continue on to Ted's shop for the minor plumbing and electrical issues im not confident about. Thanks a bunch everyone, im gonna leave tomorrow or the next day and the bus isnt gonna move for another month so but id like to start comparing these shops sooner than later (i read in the archives one shop was going to charge this lady 8 hours to run the rack and another told her they could do it only 2). (Message edited by More_s_than_as on April 15, 2009) | ||
| Jim Gibson (River_rat)
Registered Member Username: River_rat Post Number: 16 Registered: 1-2009 Posted From: 75.95.96.192 Rating: N/A |
Kasse - FYI, lots of schoolies were mid engine - I looked at a couple of Crown's that had pancake cummins about 6 feet behind the driver - on it's side, tucked under the floor. Several others were done that way - I think Gillig did too - but I don't think any of the highway busses were built as mid engine. Good luck on the trip! | ||
| Kasse Weikel (More_s_than_as)
Registered Member Username: More_s_than_as Post Number: 23 Registered: 4-2009 Posted From: 24.176.245.108 Rating: N/A |
oh man im learning gobs!!!! i know what pancakes look like from VW's and subarus!! I cant imagine a huge cummins like that! i wonder how hard they were to work on? man im sure glad i got the rear 92, power galore! | ||
| Clint Hunter (Truthhunter)
Registered Member Username: Truthhunter Post Number: 132 Registered: 1-2009 Posted From: 24.129.235.190  Rating: N/A |
...about those shop rates, you rarely get more the what you pay for, unless they have very low overhead and not much for shop equipment. This is not to say you often get more than you pay for. Those that know what they are doing on special applications, generally don't do the chisel game to well, they generally are in high demand for there rare skill, experience and expensive equipment & know the true cost of doing it the wrong way, the just four bolts way. It is your responsibility to make informed decisions, as a customer of industrial machines, unlike the norm with passenger cars, so do continue on your research. Perhaps you need to invest in the manuals , begin to buy the more tools and over time begin to learn how to do the hobby yourself, hobbies are best keep amongst enthusiast and not burdened on friends in your need , often. Best of busin to you kw . | ||
| Kasse Weikel (More_s_than_as)
Registered Member Username: More_s_than_as Post Number: 24 Registered: 4-2009 Posted From: 32.158.7.204 Rating: N/A |
Yeah that's the idea....I'm trying to learn. And one shouldn't help another with a hobby if they consider it a "burden." I know you weren't born knowing it all with a concrete pit and thousands in pneumatic tools. But thanks for your opinion anyhow. My edit is a a second thought; you just made Socrates roll in his grave with that statement. isnt the whole purpose of this board to ask for help. i have manuals now and they dont read like haynes or chiltons. just buying enough blocks and concrete right now, let alone the tools would cost almost 600, maybe more. Are you saying as well that you did your own first steering alignment? how is it a BURDEN if i am PAYING them for there SERVICES?!? if i burden you by asking questions on this board then dont respond, especially if its critism. im sure many would agree with me that CONSTRUCTIVE and POSITIVE post would be the most VALUED here. (Message edited by More_s_than_as on April 16, 2009) | ||
| RJ Long (Rjlong)
Registered Member Username: Rjlong Post Number: 1528 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 98.192.173.82  Rating: N/A |
Kasse - I'm curious - why do you think you need an alignment on your Phantom? Does it wander a lot? Look underneath and let me know if you've got four air bellows or six. Having spent a LOT of time with this model Gillig, I might have some suggestions for you. Ted at Coach Maintenance is often easier to get hold of via email, btw. The "pancake" Cummins or Detroit used in Crown and Gillig skoolies is NOT the same as a VW, Subaru, Porsche or Corvair flat four/six. The automotive applications use opposing pistons, the diesels are simply in-line sixes laid over on their side. They aren't hard to work on at all - if you have a hoist of sufficient size to lift the whole coach! If you don't know what a Crown or Gillig skoolie looks like, do a search using Google Images, lots will pop up. Oh, and just to keep blowing your mind a bit, Gillig also built Phantom skoolies! FWIW & HTH. . .  | ||
| Kasse Weikel (More_s_than_as)
Registered Member Username: More_s_than_as Post Number: 25 Registered: 4-2009 Posted From: 24.176.245.108 Rating: N/A |
to get her up to my friends place whos helping me with some welding, i drove her 400+ miles and there was definately pull to the right. i stopped and checked tires, most were low, aired em all up to 90 and that helped a little. theres sometimes a weird small popping noise under my feet when i wheel crazy turn sections (like the 299 west of redding)i can feel it a little too. im not a shy fellow, every truck stop i stopped at i was blabbin away, some truckers wont give you the time of day, some will buy you a coffee and love to chat. i was told as long as theres no "grinding" im all good. no she doesnt "wonder" if you were thinking maybe tie rod or bushings (delt with that in hondas and VWs). I was going to have the Mech in Hoopa give me the grease over and explain the brake system to me, im gonna try to get him to let me watch as well. PO explained the air system best he knew, showed me the FOUR air tanks/bellows and how to bleed them occasionaly of water. RJ please email me or continue on board here for your suggestions, open to any insite. im gonna leave early friday though and be back to civi round wednesday Thanks for the email tip for ted, ill send him one right now | ||
| Jim Gibson (River_rat)
Registered Member Username: River_rat Post Number: 17 Registered: 1-2009 Posted From: 75.95.96.192 Rating: N/A |
Kasse - I got in tough with the reno mechanic and he is familiar with many busses - he works at the DD shop and has worked on many GM's. He knew my 4104 well. His dad had a 4104, a 4105, and several others so as a kid grew up under one. Anyway, might be a good local source when you get the beast home. On the mid-engine - they are actually pretty easy to work on - I spent a month under one - when you're on your back, everything is right in front of you and easy to get to. The biggest disadvantage as an RV is that all those wonderfull storage bays are gone - filled with engine, radiator, and the such. Have a good trip, be safe - busses are heavy! JIm | ||
| RJ Long (Rjlong)
Registered Member Username: Rjlong Post Number: 1529 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 98.192.173.82 Rating: N/A |
Kasse - "PO explained the air system best he knew, showed me the FOUR air tanks/bellows and how to bleed them occasionaly of water." Two different things. What you just described is the coach air system that supplies air to the brakes, suspension, wipers, front & rear doors, etc. What I was asking about is how many air bellows (bags) you have in the suspension itself. Two on the front axle and either two or four on the rear. Take a peek and let me know. Also, did the bus change directions slightly between "on" and "off" the throttle? The weird popping noise could be lack of lubrication in the steering linkage, or it might be the steering box is loose on the frame and is moving. If so, that, too, could be part of your wandering problem. FWIW & HTH. . . | ||
| Kasse Weikel (More_s_than_as)
Registered Member Username: More_s_than_as Post Number: 28 Registered: 4-2009 Posted From: 24.176.245.108 Rating: N/A |
Jim - your as crazy about this stuff as i am, if not more, good job on the shop info here and in the emails. hold that guys number, but for now im going to hit up that shop in hoopa AND i wanna go check out Dave Guglielmetti's (hope i spelt right) shop in redding. BOTH had agreed to let me watch and ask questions (YAY YAY YAY)! RJ - lol you can tell i wasnt lieiing about bring a noob! I just talked for 45 minutes with Dave G. on the phone. i need to crawl under there and see about the bags and the possible air assist steering. im almost sure theres jsut 4 bags total, 2 in front and 2 in back but i will check and update when i get back. im almost positive though that there is just 4 and they all are working well, no leaks. yeah she changes direction when i mash the gas, she lunges forward and roars! LOL all joking aside, no she doesnt pull left or right when given her a goose She isnt "wandering" for i know what bad tie rods and bushings feel like, its simply about a 5 degree pull to the right (if i just let her go out on a flat, it would be a HEFTY 5 degree circle). i htink the problem is: she sat for six years with that right front tire being flat. the shop in hoopa told me it most likely isnt bushings or tie rod ends, and he could have the beast straightened and tires scored (no idea what that means) in 2 hours. The air noises - Dave G. informed to me to first figure out ifi have air assised steering or not, im pretty sure i do but not positive. if i do have air assist, then the noises i hear and feal while im negotiating roads that resemble snakes, are completely NORMAL and show the assist is working. The air assist is just a big drum with a diaphragm in it and aids steering by adding and realisng pressure to one side of the diaphragm or the other, depending on which way im turning the wheel. the noise is the air pressure shifting rapidly because im turning rapidly (those hills west of redding are no flippin joke!). To me, its just like a steering dampener for a lifted truck, but is pressurized and PUSHES instead of DAMPENING (does that make sense to anyone else?). RJ and Jim, and others - Ill be back in a handfull of days with pics and updates, thanks a bunch to everyone! | ||
| Debbie and Joe Cannarozzi (Joe_camper)
Registered Member Username: Joe_camper Post Number: 144 Registered: 10-2006 Posted From: 71.239.202.82 Rating: |
I have found often, when your talking about suspension and chassis now, for many folks 2 things are occurring 1-many are getting into a vehicle with air brakes and suspensions, for the first time. And 2 - many of those are older buses. Then many of those folks are pretty mechanically minded and additionally many have very impressive spots and tools but, will anticipate with good reason, a large learning curve with a purchase of a bus. Then there is a time where many can take on most repairs however time gets the most of us and again those who are blessed enough to live longer unfortunately loose our ability to root around as we once did and again we need to find a good hand. To pay book rates to Mr. Whobody at 75 bucks an hour to allow him to learn on your bus while trying to get your learning curve shortened will drain your wallet pretty quick. Do not misunderstand I am sure the previously suggested shops probably also specialize and can crank jobs of their own as well, unfortunately it ain't buses. We not only have to network here but we all need to pick just 1 or 2 mechanics per manufacturer and FEED THEM as much as possible. A good specialized mechanic who is willing to let the owner contribute to a rebuild and in turn demonstrate instruct and go over a little 101 is worth his weight in gold. The opportunity of doing many similar chassis for the mechanic is obvious. Often the help of a proficient bus owner will easily and often reduce labor to 1/2 of book time, possibly more, while simultaneously giving the owner a wealth of knowledge and confidence. Such a situation could prove to be a great asset to the group? I do not want to get in trouble here I am a certified bonafide 5 star busnut and I offer this as a suggestion to others not a solicitation. I am in the service business. I provide 2 things. In advance a max for time billed regardless if it turns out longer. Then I can take my time without the customer getting in a panic. I can safely do this because I am always working on a familiar components and locations and I can be quite certain how long it will take me. Often I enjoy and always welcome the help of a interested customer. Folks love the knowledge of what the most the cost will be up front and most are eager to learn. My mistakes are significantly less I have always seen it before, It affords me and my customers the luxury of waisting very little time. win-win It has been my experience that your average "book time" at your average shop is not a threshold that is to difficult to exceed. Seems to me you guys with the Eagles MCI Bluebird and GMC have plenty of #s to "home grown" a pretty good mechanic here. ya autta get together and systematically feed 1 guy for each make. Over a very short period of time they will get VERY quick at repairs, common stuff, that would take 3 times as long elsewhere or if tried yourself possibly done incorrectly or dangerously with a recent purchase. At troubleshooting as well. A mechanic that is purely mobile enjoys overhead is very low and air fair is peanuts if compared to what some one will charge you to let them learn on your bus at 75 bucks an hour. Quite often not getting things done just right. My 2 cents If anyone ever needs to overnight through Chicago we are very convenient spot for a snooze or possibly longer if you have a wife that cooks good. Our info is in our profile. Pets are good. If you are driving a Prevo you might pick up a few things. (Message edited by Joe Camper on April 17, 2009) | ||
| Clint Hunter (Truthhunter)
Registered Member Username: Truthhunter Post Number: 134 Registered: 1-2009 Posted From: 24.129.235.190 Rating: N/A |
good thoughts Joe the camper ! |
