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Jim Wallin (Powderseeker01)
Registered Member Username: Powderseeker01
Post Number: 20 Registered: 10-2008 Posted From: 208.68.48.77
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | Posted on Tuesday, June 02, 2009 - 6:51 am: | |
I am in the process of (slowly) replacing the rubber gaskets in the fixed windows on our 4107 with new ones. I just finished the vista windows the other day. Last night after a moderate rain I noticed that water still weeps through between the gasket and the window in the lower/outer corners, which seems curious as the filler strip seems very tight. Has anyone else discovered this issue? Any possible solutions or suggestions? Thanks! |
Jack Conrad (Jackconrad)
Registered Member Username: Jackconrad
Post Number: 1105 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 71.3.157.139
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | Posted on Tuesday, June 02, 2009 - 7:42 am: | |
Jim, Is it coming in between the glass and rubber or between the rubber and the body? Jack |
Bill Gerrie (Bill_gerrie)
Registered Member Username: Bill_gerrie
Post Number: 269 Registered: 3-2006 Posted From: 216.198.139.38
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | Posted on Tuesday, June 02, 2009 - 10:09 am: | |
Jim I had the same problem many years ago with my windows. The only way to seal them is to start over and make sure the metal opening is in good shape. Prime and paint before installing the new rubber. Spread a bead of silicone inside the rubber channel were it contacts the metal bus frame then install it. Put another bead of silicone in the other side of the rubber channel before you install the glass. It is a messy job but will seal the water out. Bill |
Gus Causbie (Gusc)
Registered Member Username: Gusc
Post Number: 919 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 208.54.200.73
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | Posted on Tuesday, June 02, 2009 - 3:50 pm: | |
Do the gaskets have a joint? If so, where is the joint located? |
Dave (Virtual)
Registered Member Username: Virtual
Post Number: 11 Registered: 5-2009 Posted From: 67.186.253.131
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | Posted on Tuesday, June 02, 2009 - 4:28 pm: | |
The only suggestion I have is to ask them if something is bothering them. Then practice reflexive listening. |
Jack Conrad (Jackconrad)
Registered Member Username: Jackconrad
Post Number: 1107 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 71.3.157.139
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | Posted on Tuesday, June 02, 2009 - 5:58 pm: | |
"The only suggestion I have is to ask them if something is bothering them. Then practice reflexive listening." Now, I like that answer LOL Jack |
john w. roan (Chessie4905)
Registered Member Username: Chessie4905
Post Number: 1487 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 71.58.110.9
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | Posted on Tuesday, June 02, 2009 - 6:01 pm: | |
If I was doing this, I'd use silicone for both grooves, glass to gasket and gasket to body. Glass could be slightly under size,out of index a little, gasket could be nos and shrunken/dried out some, or body opening might be off some. Use Permatex ultra black and wipe away the excess or carefully trim away excess after dried. |
john w. roan (Chessie4905)
Registered Member Username: Chessie4905
Post Number: 1488 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 71.58.110.9
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | Posted on Tuesday, June 02, 2009 - 6:04 pm: | |
BTW, those vista windows are a pain to keep sealed, although look great. Definately use the silicone sealer on them. I've seen many 4905's with window sealer or silicone around those windows. |
Jim Wallin (Powderseeker01)
Registered Member Username: Powderseeker01
Post Number: 21 Registered: 10-2008 Posted From: 208.68.48.77
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | Posted on Tuesday, June 02, 2009 - 6:58 pm: | |
Jack, the water is weeping between the glass and the seal. Dave- I have tried talking to them... but I think that they may just be thirsty. John, the gaskets are new and very pliable, but I agree that the Permatex may be the only solution (no pun intended). Jack- btw, the tool I have worked great for installing the filler strip. It only took about 10 minutes to do the entire job. Thanks to all for your brainstorming and suggestions. |
Buswarrior (Buswarrior)
Registered Member Username: Buswarrior
Post Number: 1622 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 76.68.122.95
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | Posted on Tuesday, June 02, 2009 - 7:10 pm: | |
Leak free windows can only be assured with the use of a sealant as described by the other posters. If you prefer not to re and re again, try using a plastic tool, carefully work your way all the way around the gasket, against the frame and against the glass, and sneak some sealer in after the fact. happy coaching! buswarrior |
R.C.Bishop (Chuckllb)
Registered Member Username: Chuckllb
Post Number: 772 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 75.209.200.238
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | Posted on Tuesday, June 02, 2009 - 9:14 pm: | |
Yep...that so!..well, sort of...I took all the windows apart that I intended to keep.... got rid of all the old rubber. Replaced with outdoor carpet strips (gray)...bottom and sides. Used PL to "cement and seal" them in> HOWEVER... except for the bed windows, which we open each night, ALL are sealed...pretty much as BW states. 8-9 years later, no problems...that I am aware of... Just works better that way, IMHO... RCB RCB (Message edited by chuckllb on June 02, 2009) |
doug yes (Dougg)
Registered Member Username: Dougg
Post Number: 90 Registered: 1-2007 Posted From: 162.40.208.133
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | Posted on Tuesday, June 02, 2009 - 9:16 pm: | |
Silicon means once it's done it will be a major pain if it needs to be taken apart in the future. Residential glass installation uses a black sealer that is sticky but remains pliable enough to remove in the future. Get it at a professional glass shop. |
R.C.Bishop (Chuckllb)
Registered Member Username: Chuckllb
Post Number: 773 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 75.209.200.238
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | Posted on Tuesday, June 02, 2009 - 9:25 pm: | |
Razor blades work wonders on Silicone...my experience. Then a good cleaning with lacquer thinner... FWIW RCB |
Buswarrior (Buswarrior)
Registered Member Username: Buswarrior
Post Number: 1624 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 76.68.122.95
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | Posted on Tuesday, June 02, 2009 - 11:27 pm: | |
Depending on your school of windshield replacement, a fresh gasket may be standard operating procedure, so a sharp instrument makes quick work of the problems. happy coaching! buswarrior |
Chuck Newman (Chuck_newman)
Registered Member Username: Chuck_newman
Post Number: 356 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 99.0.41.3
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | Posted on Wednesday, June 03, 2009 - 2:12 am: | |
I haven't tried this stuff on side windows, but I can say it has solved all my windshield and gasket leaking problems in areas too small to adequately apply thicker sealers. This stuff looks like milk. Its capillary action sucks it into hairline cracks in the rubber, as well as between glass/rubber contact areas not completely sealed. http://www.captaintolley.com/ |
FAST FRED (Fast_fred)
Registered Member Username: Fast_fred
Post Number: 812 Registered: 10-2006 Posted From: 76.216.69.160
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | Posted on Wednesday, June 03, 2009 - 7:10 am: | |
IF the glass will be out for a day or so, a thin layer of varnish to seal the laminate edge seems to keep the glass together , and resist moisture creep into the glass.. FF |
Kyle Brandt (Kyle4501)
Registered Member Username: Kyle4501
Post Number: 471 Registered: 9-2004 Posted From: 65.23.106.193
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | Posted on Wednesday, June 03, 2009 - 9:13 am: | |
When the windshield was replaced in my 63 International truck, the glass shop said it may leak a little at first but would stop in a couple of weeks. Their words were true, first couple of rains it leaked & then it stopped. 7 years later & still dry. Maybe you should give it some time in the sun & see if the rubber settles in & seals to the glass. . . . |
marvin pack (Gomer)
Registered Member Username: Gomer
Post Number: 493 Registered: 3-2007 Posted From: 71.55.197.237
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | Posted on Wednesday, June 03, 2009 - 4:36 pm: | |
I FOUND IT<I FOUND IT!!! window tools for installing glass in coaches. KD TOOLS.COM The tool for use is;KD 2037 and LS-47000. I have had these for years and when I need them, they are ssoooo easy to use. Iput in 2 windshields in less than 30m each. Check it out.NO COACH OWNER SHOULD BE WITHOUT ONE. Gomer |
Gus Causbie (Gusc)
Registered Member Username: Gusc
Post Number: 921 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 208.54.200.10
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | Posted on Thursday, June 04, 2009 - 12:27 am: | |
I agree about not using silicon sealer, that stuff is murder if you ever need to remove it again. It may be ok if you can easily get a sharp knife to it but many windows do not allow that luxury. The PO decided to seal my 4104 top hinged windows frames with silicone. They sure don't leak but they are impossible to remove without breaking them out frames and all. The SS cannot be reached by any tool known to man. |
RJ Long (Rjlong)
Registered Member Username: Rjlong
Post Number: 1567 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 98.192.173.82
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | Posted on Thursday, June 04, 2009 - 2:23 am: | |
Gomer - I found the KD-2037 under "Body Tools) in KD's web catalog, but the LS-47000 was nowhere to be seen. Here's the link to the 2037: http://www.kd-tools.com/2037.htm However, Google to the rescue - I found the LS-4700 on the Cornwell Tools website: http://www.cornwelldealer.com/CQTProdData/_____LS47000.html Thanks for sharing!
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marvin pack (Gomer)
Registered Member Username: Gomer
Post Number: 501 Registered: 3-2007 Posted From: 71.55.197.237
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | Posted on Thursday, June 04, 2009 - 8:12 am: | |
RJ; and others:: These tool are the greatest I have used and once a windshield installer wanted to buy them from my and said he couldn't find that style anywhere and used mine whenever he could borrow them. He even paid me wow. Rj KD had both listed on windshield removal tools. and the price was about the same I paid for them #$%^& years ago. Gomer |
Ralph Peters (Ralph7)
Registered Member Username: Ralph7
Post Number: 18 Registered: 3-2004 Posted From: 66.59.120.171
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | Posted on Friday, June 05, 2009 - 11:57 am: | |
When installing the bead use a large amount of dish soap on bead, goes in easy and less streach of bead. IF you prefer you can use GO-JO or other soap of your choice. |
marvin pack (Gomer)
Registered Member Username: Gomer
Post Number: 505 Registered: 3-2007 Posted From: 71.55.197.237
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | Posted on Friday, June 05, 2009 - 12:32 pm: | |
Ralph; I always use dawn dish washing liquid in a spray bottle and use it that way and it works great on all the gasket and filler strips. |
john w. roan (Chessie4905)
Registered Member Username: Chessie4905
Post Number: 1498 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 71.58.110.9
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | Posted on Saturday, June 06, 2009 - 10:35 pm: | |
AVOID the temptation to stretch that filler strip while installing, and cut it slightly longer than the gap left and then work it in. Otherwise, in about 6 months to a year, you'll end up with an inch or more gap. |
Bruce Henderson (Oonrahnjay)
Registered Member Username: Oonrahnjay
Post Number: 422 Registered: 8-2004 Posted From: 70.60.107.113
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | Posted on Sunday, June 07, 2009 - 12:27 am: | |
John Roan is correct, but there's more. See: http://s45.photobucket.com/albums/f60/oonrahnjay/Bus/?action=view¤t=Gasket.jpg This photo shows a gasket that I took out of my bus yesterday. You must make the gasket 1/2 to 1 inch too long (and stuff it way up into all the corners before you measure) and get compression. You can see in that photo that the installer didn't do that -- later someone had to try to put a filler piece in and "goo" it in with sealer. Didn't work, it still leaked (that's why I had a piece of tape stuck to the back of it to temporarily stop the leak). It's a good idea to leave 3-4 inches overlap of the gasket -- you'll be amazed at how much the corners of the glass push the gasket up into the edges of the opening and when it does, it pulls the overlap way shorter. Once you've got *all* the gasket pushed into the corners and edges of the opening as a "trial fit", then cut it so that there's that 1/2 to 1 inch overlap. You'll be amazed how that overlap goes away and leaves only a little compression when the filler strip is going in. John says "avoid the temptation to stretch" -- I purposely push the filler strip in compression as it goes in. You won't get real compression because Gomer's "diamond-shaped" tool actually pulls and stretches the filler but you can get enough push so that it won't get stretched. John is exactly right about cutting it a little long, too. |
marvin pack (Gomer)
Registered Member Username: Gomer
Post Number: 513 Registered: 3-2007 Posted From: 71.55.197.237
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | Posted on Sunday, June 07, 2009 - 7:55 am: | |
Bruce and Chessie; Ya'll be correct with the stretching of the filler[as usual] HOWEVER I forgot to say when putting in the filler keep pushing the filler in thru the tool and that way you can actually see it when it strethes and then you can push harder and keep it better on the gasket. Use plenty of soap too that way when you get done it will wash right off too! Gomer |
Kyle Brandt (Kyle4501)
Registered Member Username: Kyle4501
Post Number: 472 Registered: 9-2004 Posted From: 65.12.125.15
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | Posted on Sunday, June 07, 2009 - 9:14 am: | |
Don't use an antibacterial soap, that stuff will corrode stainless steel! Someone used it at work one time to install O-rings. It didn't take long before they were leaking water & the parts had to be replaced due to corrosion. I don't know what it does to aluminium. |
Bruce Henderson (Oonrahnjay)
Registered Member Username: Oonrahnjay
Post Number: 425 Registered: 8-2004 Posted From: 70.60.107.113
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | Posted on Sunday, June 07, 2009 - 12:15 pm: | |
Gomer, that's exactly what I was talking about when I said try to keep compression on the filler strip. It's amazing what a difference that makes. Also, what seems to work is when you're about 4 inches from being finished, take out the "diamond wire" tool and insert the tip of the filler strip so that it butts up against the starting end. Then, lever the little "4 inch bubble" into the groove and you'll have compression on that strip. |