| Author | Message | ||
| Kasse Weikel (More_s_than_as)
Registered Member Username: More_s_than_as Post Number: 56 Registered: 4-2009 Posted From: 24.205.97.163 Rating: N/A |
i was all ready to go change the rear main on my 6v92 with a 4 speed automatic allison, when i found an unexpected problem. there are a FEW different types of rear mains that i can order from dieselpro.com the manual i currently have wasnt helpfull for this, and when i called the parts house they guy on the phone wasnt much help either. please help me order the right part, heres what i have been told so far... sinlge or double lip seals depends on your transmission (thats all the parts guy could tell me and i dunno if this is even right). oversized seals are for cranks that have a lot of wear and one must get a sleeve to insert over the end of the worn crank when using and oversized seal as well. there are left hand, right hand, and universal rotation seals available as well so heres the questions.... 1. how do i tell if i need a single or double lip seal?? will a double lip work fine if only a snigle lip is needed? 2. the direction specific seals sare teflon and the universal ones are rubber. is it worth it to find out what direction my rotation is and get a teflon one one? how do i tell what the direction is? 3. considering the dash board only reads 360k miles and hte hub-meter reads only 56k miles, i shouldnt need an oversized seal eh? 4. can any one who has done this before give me any tips or tricks? i already ordered the manual from dieselpro(yeah i broke in and finally bought a book but the site makes it sound like THE one to have). I would like to get this seal in the mail ASAP im hoping your guys can help me not have to pull the tranny off and look first, then order the parts. id like to do the work all in one day if possible. as always thanks for the help! | ||
| Luvrbus (Luvrbus)
Registered Member Username: Luvrbus Post Number: 709 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 74.33.54.207 Rating: N/A |
I would go with the single lip seal with a new wear ring chances are you have a a wear ring now they install the wear ring if the engine has been rebuilt if not you are going to need one and your engine will be a right hand with the 740. good luck (Message edited by luvrbus on June 20, 2009) | ||
| AL (Proudeagle10)
Registered Member Username: Proudeagle10 Post Number: 70 Registered: 4-2005 Posted From: 75.104.192.54 Rating: N/A |
There is no way to see the seal, until you remove the tranny. Once you remove the tranny, you will have to remove the flywheel and bell housing. The seal goes from the insde of the bell housing.The best way to do this and I think the only way to do that job, is to pull the engine out with the transmission. The reason you would need to pull the engine, is because you will have to remove the bell housing and you would not have any back soupport on the engine. I have done these three or four times, and I always use the double lip seal and a new wear ring. The cost is not that much. Hope this helped. AL | ||
| Luvrbus (Luvrbus)
Registered Member Username: Luvrbus Post Number: 710 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 74.33.54.207 Rating: N/A |
Al, I don't know what engine you are working on but I never pull the bell housing to replace the seal on a 92 series the seal goes in from the outside there is a lip on the engine side of the bell housing to keep the seal from going to far.There is no reason for him to remove the bell housing. good luck | ||
| John Lacey (Junkman42)
Registered Member Username: Junkman42 Post Number: 85 Registered: 3-2007 Posted From: 66.82.9.83  Rating: N/A |
I have a ht70 with a 8v71. If I read the data right I have a wet torque converter and that requires a crankshaft seal that has a lip facing both ways to keep tranny fluid from bypassing the crank seal. I also have a starter with a seal to keep oil out of the starter. I always have the oddball something. Something to think about. John | ||
| Luvrbus (Luvrbus)
Registered Member Username: Luvrbus Post Number: 711 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 74.33.54.207 Rating: N/A |
Yep John that is what the double lip seal is for Kasse can remove the plug at the bottom of the bell housing and tell if he has a wet or dry torque converter 99% sure he will have a dry and needs the single lip seal (Message edited by luvrbus on June 20, 2009) | ||
| John Lacey (Junkman42)
Registered Member Username: Junkman42 Post Number: 86 Registered: 3-2007 Posted From: 66.82.9.83 Rating: N/A |
Luvrbus, Just curious if You are familar with the HT70. I was told that it is weak and prone to faliure. I have a lot of mechanical experience but none with heavy tranny's. I did notice that this tranny was used behind 12v71's in log trucks in canada. Would be much interested in Your take on this. Did not mean to hijack the thread. Regards John | ||
| AL (Proudeagle10)
Registered Member Username: Proudeagle10 Post Number: 71 Registered: 4-2005 Posted From: 75.104.192.38 Rating: N/A |
Sorry. You know what they say. The mine is the second thing to go. Why! There ougth to be a law, from letting folks as old as me from posting on the BBS. I havn't done that kind of work in 10 yrs. Ck my maintenace book. I guess I need to go to remittal training. AL | ||
| David Guglielmetti (Daveg)
Registered Member Username: Daveg Post Number: 70 Registered: 2-2009 Posted From: 71.139.244.152  Rating: N/A |
Remedial Kasse, glad to see you are getting after it. | ||
| Kasse Weikel (More_s_than_as)
Registered Member Username: More_s_than_as Post Number: 58 Registered: 4-2009 Posted From: 24.205.97.163 Rating: N/A |
hey dave i sent u an email i was hoping i could still bring the rig by your shop for a few things, mainly gauge and sensor work, u guys do that even though its not "below deck?" i scoured back over the manual mac sent me a while ago and i finally found the info on the rear main, its listed under different categories then the parts are listen on dieselpro so that was throwing me off, however i now have MORE questions and some info to add LUVRBUS - the manual i have is an older tech one and is hard for me to read, they have all these specific tools. one measure the flushn ess of the seal when u put it in there using a different special tool to tap the seal into place. it says it hasto be within .015 of an inch in flushness. HOW IMPORTANT IS THIS REALLY? do i just push her into until she stops against this inner lip you speak of? especially considering ive been told ill have to change this on the old detroit every hanfull of years or so?? whats a cheap substitute for the tool to drive the seal into place? a nice smooth pipe the same I.D. and O.D. of the seal? This manual is hard to read as i say and i have the newer one for dummies in the mail, but as far as i can tell you just have to take out the flywheel and torque converter, the bell housing wouldnt necessarily have to come off i dont think although they have it off in the pics, but dont mention anything about it in the text. i have read in the atrchives that many ppl say these non-DDEC's can be completely rebuilt in frame and the only thing that CANT be done on the roadside is the main crank and bearings (thats what i read but i know you guys would know better). and yes i have a dry bell housing and its easily identifdied because there IS NO plug on the bottom of the bell housing. i called up the P.O. whos a former trucker and says that there should NOT be a plug there for my situation because when the seal starts to leak you dont want it building up in there and thats how you tell when its time for a change on these old detroits (by how much is leaking out). This is all jsut what i have read and been told so any further opinions are appreciated but this looks pretty straight forward to me DAVE - ima call u soon lemme know if u can help wioth the gauges and a good thorough isnpection/greasing - thanks a bunch Thanks everyone - when i get the official books in ill be more help to others in the future | ||
| Luvrbus (Luvrbus)
Registered Member Username: Luvrbus Post Number: 715 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 74.33.54.207 Rating: N/A |
Kasse, the torque converter will stay on the transmission, you need to remove the flex plate there will be 2 sets of bolts remove the center ones only.Anything smooth and the same size of the outside of the seal will work for the install and drive it in till it stops.When removing the transmission from the engine you have to remove the 12 bolts through the hole above the starter you can not remove the bolts by removing the starter.FWIW DD recommends new bolts for the crankshaft end. good luck and read your manual but it is not hard to change the seal once you get there | ||
| Kasse Weikel (More_s_than_as)
Registered Member Username: More_s_than_as Post Number: 59 Registered: 4-2009 Posted From: 24.205.97.163 Rating: N/A |
good tip on the bolts im placing the order right now, just got off the phone with dieselpro again. the oversized single lip universal rotation seal i wanted just wasnt listed online and the guy looked it up for me. direction specific seals are teflon and are SUPPOSED to stay dry...considering what i have been told about these detroits blowing rear mains often, i think the rubber universal direction seal is more approriate considering its supposed to get lubed with clean oil when installed. he also told me that NO you cant use a double lip in a single lip application for it wont sit right when you slap it all back together i called a friend in washington who has changed out 3 trannies on his skoolie already (they were all free or real cheap chunkers, none lasted more than a year). he told me about the bolts through the hole ordeal and that the torque converter stays with thte tranny on a shaft. but its good to hear a second line of advice that coheres with the first exactly, thanks luvrbus! im really excited to get this done guys thanks for all the help i feel much more confident now! | ||
| David Guglielmetti (Daveg)
Registered Member Username: Daveg Post Number: 71 Registered: 2-2009 Posted From: 63.198.19.42 Rating: N/A |
Sure Kasse, call me at the shop (530) 241-two three one two and we'll get together. | ||
| Cullen Newsom (Cullennewsom)
Registered Member Username: Cullennewsom Post Number: 93 Registered: 2-2009 Posted From: 98.201.161.214 Rating: N/A |
If I understand correctly. That "oversized single lip universal rotation seal" is sometimes called a "repair seal". Not often listed in OEM catalogs, more likely an aftermarket part. Useful if you want to get some more time out of your crankshaft, but the old seal has cut a groove in the shaft. BTW if you can feel a groove in your crank where the lip of the seal is/was by dragging your fingernail across it, and it catches your fingernail; you should use the repair seal / sleeve. The groove may eat any other new seal you install. |